Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!psuvax1!rutgers!ub!acsu.buffalo.edu!ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu!v077mdph From: v077mdph@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (John of Gaunt) Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: La, la, la... Message-ID: <1992Mar20.020558.27579@acsu.buffalo.edu> Date: 20 Mar 92 02:07:00 GMT References: <99669@bu.edu.bu.edu> <92075.161912U37460@uicvm.uic.edu> <15MAR199222515665@vax.cc.williams.edu> Sender: usenet@acsu.buffalo.edu Organization: University at Buffalo Lines: 24 Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2401 alt.religion.kibology:1253 alt.sex:59305 alt.alien.visitors:5000 News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Nntp-Posting-Host: ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu In article <15MAR199222515665@vax.cc.williams.edu>, 92dms@vax.cc.williams.edu (Bat Rastard) writes... >In article <92075.161912U37460@uicvm.uic.edu>, writes... >>In article <1992Mar15.075333.9278@cunews.carleton.ca>, wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca >>(Tom Hamill) says: >>> >>>In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>>In article pdevans@daisy.waterloo.edu (Paul D Evans) writes: >>>>>In article colby@bu-bio.bu.edu (Chris Colby) writes: >>>>>> In article entropy@wintermute.WPI.EDU (Lawrence C. Foard) writes: >>>>>> >In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>>>> >>>>>> >> GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE. >>>>>> >>>>>> >They will just mutate to get around it! >>>>>> >>>>>> >Evolution is god! >>>>>> Sanitation is fraud: >>>>>Sandinistas ate Maude. >>>>Santa Claus baits God. >>>>Satan Claws Bates Dog! Film At Eleven! >>>Satin draws mates bod. >>I sat in Ward's tame knob. >I set a weird time bomb. So Satan ran home! Path: ns-mx!uunet!olivea!apple!netcomsv!mork!noring From: noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: pts Message-ID: Date: 20 Mar 92 02:42:41 GMT References: <16f6fdfe@nacjack.gen.nz> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 32 In article Craig.O'Neill@p0.f1.n350.z199.nacjack.gen.nz (Craig O'Neill) writes: >This is probably the wrong area but I couldn't find the right one as I am >only new to the board. Can you tell me how I get points for downloads and >what is the upload/download ratio on this board. Thanks. > >Got to Fly BYE BYE If you subscribe now, not only will you get points, but you'll get Ktel's famous cheese slicer at no extra charge. Hurry up, supplies won't last! Also, if you subscribe now, we'll even throw in an upload/download ratio of infinity. To subscribe, send $100,000 (U.S.) in small bills to: Internet/Cheese Slicer Offer P.O. Box 1234 Gary, Indiana 45678, USA (p.s. Welcome to the Internet! Land of 10,000 Flakes.) Ignore the signature below. Jon Noring did not write this, just his agent. -- ============================================================================= | Jon Noring | noring@netcom.netcom.com | "The dogs bark, but the | | JKN International | IP : 192.100.81.100 | caravan moves on." | | 1312 Carlton Place | Phone : (510) 294-8153 | "Pack your lunch, sit in | | Livermore, CA 94550 | V-Mail: (510) 862-1101 | the bushes, and watch." | ============================================================================= "If you make $50,000 today, you have the same buying power as the average coal miner did in 1949, adjusted for taxes and inflation," John Sestina, nationally recognized Certified Financial Planner; quoted in 1987. Path: ns-mx!uunet!van-bc!ubc-cs!unixg.ubc.ca!erich.triumf.ca!vincent From: vincent@erich.triumf.ca (pete) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories Subject: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Visitations) Summary: SR and space travel times Message-ID: <19MAR199219013628@erich.triumf.ca> Date: 20 Mar 92 03:01:00 GMT References: <=h9hjhjnoring@netcom.com> <484@grivel.une.oz.au> Sender: news@unixg.ubc.ca (Usenet News Maintenance) Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories Organization: dept. of theophysics & cosmogyny Lines: 60 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5002 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1196 News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Nntp-Posting-Host: erich.triumf.ca In article <484@grivel.une.oz.au>, daryl@neumann.une.oz.au (Daryl Essam) writes... >In article <=h9hjhjnoring@netcom.com>, noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes: >> In boltj@reis53.alleg.edu (Jennifer Bolt) writes: >> >> >Wake up, The universe is too big, and the distances too great for aliens to >> >travel back and forth, that is from the Earth back to where ever. So no >> >aliens have probably come to Earth, although it is almost definite that >> >life must exist elsewhere... >> >> If the only way to travel from one point in the universe to another point >> is to move through the space between the points, then Jennifer is correct >> because, according to Relativity (either SR or GR), and backed up with >> much experimental evidence, no object of mass can travel through >> space greater >> than (or even equal to, in reality) the speed of light in a vacuum. >> >> However, has it ever occured to you that it may be possible to alter space >> itself and reduce or even eliminate the space between any two points >> in space? >> > > I tend to think of this as wishful thinking. Relativity > is quite depressing, and I wish it did not hold, but at the moment I think >that given the current evidence. Its reasonable to assume that it does. > > However, who is to say that a journey that takes a hundred, even a >thousand years would be considered unreasonable by an alien race. Just some >of the possible options are; > > It is a possiblity that an alien race could enter a state of suspended >animation, either artificially; or it could be an inate ability, in a similar >manner to how some animals hybernate. > > Or, if the race had a long life-span, say a million years or greater, >they could consider a trip to Earth to be the equivalent of having to drive >for an hour to get to work. Or as per 200 years ago, when it took 9 months >(ie 1-2% of their lifetime) to get from England to Australia. > > I'm just saying that the argument seems to be that it takes too long >to go anywhere in space, but too long is a relative term. > DE Something you all may be neglecting is that the elapsed time of an object travelling near the speed of light is (distance)/(~c) only for the observer in the planetary frame observing the object going past. For an observer in the object (craft), velocity and distance behave in a purely Newtonian fashion, ie. continuing acceleration yields increasing speed with no limitation, so that several lightyears can be traversed in a matter of weeks. The only problem is that after decelerating back to the planetary reference frame, the traveller discovers that some large number of years have elapsed in that frame. Whether that is a problem depends on the traveller's psychological disposition. It's just the same as the twin 'paradox'. If you don't mind missing a few hundred years of history, it's no big deal. =========================================================================== A cynic's world is comprised Pete Vincent of fools and other cynics Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!nntp.uoregon.edu!cie.uoregon.edu!rtaylor From: rtaylor@cie.uoregon.edu (Russ Taylor) Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.scientology,alt.sex Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again... Message-ID: <1992Mar20.031338.3813@nntp.uoregon.edu> Date: 20 Mar 92 03:13:38 GMT References: <17MAR199217225741@vax.cc.williams.edu> <64035@apple.Apple.COM> Sender: news@nntp.uoregon.edu Organization: Campus Information Exchange, University of Oregon Lines: 21 Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2402 alt.alien.visitors:5003 alt.religion.scientology:1881 alt.sex:59322 In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: [Intervening drivel removed] >>He rode the May Day WASPS. >She ate the Payday wrapper. > > >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH. I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD STOP IT. >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*. > > > Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but only after you added your ten cents? A thousand-degree flame on you! (homey don't play dat!) btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth? And why is this a waste of it? Russ "gremlins" Taylor rtaylor@cie.uoregon.edu Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!sei.cmu.edu!drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu!cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!fs7.ece.cmu.edu!pellns.alleg.edu!news From: boltj@reis63.alleg.edu (Jennifer Bolt) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: ANTAHKARANA: The Star People Connection Message-ID: <1992Mar20.002212.9943@pellns.alleg.edu> Date: 20 Mar 92 00:22:12 GMT References: <1992Mar19.034111.11392@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Sender: news@pellns.alleg.edu Organization: Allegheny College Lines: 20 In article <1992Mar19.034111.11392@beaver.cs.washington.edu> pullen@cs.washington.edu (Walter D. Pullen) writes: > > |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| > || || > || A Plan for Sharing and Growing || > || ANTAHKARANA, || > || THE STAR PEOPLE CONNECTION || > || || > |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| > > In the year of 1984, a group energy concept called Antahkarana > was given to the planet. In the ensuing years many phases of the Star > People Connection have been pursued to the present moment. Now the > plans for expansion are appropriate. > I would like to know what rational person would take this stuff seriously. Please feel free to email me and explain why. This is as bad as channeling. (or was this plan created by a "higher being". Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!wupost!psuvax1!psuvm!lmuacad!stdntfe9 From: STDNTFE9@LMUACAD.BITNET Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Zontar? Message-ID: <92079.163105STDNTFE9@LMUACAD.BITNET> Date: 19 Mar 92 23:31:05 GMT Organization: LOYOLA MARYMOUNT UNIV - CENTER FOR ACADEMIC COMPUTING Lines: 7 I hear strange stories that there is a psychic in Europe you claims to able to communicate spiritually with an alien being named Zontar? I've read vague repo rts also that he communicates with him through a sort of space operator? What is this all about? Bewildered, Nora Path: ns-mx!uunet!zephyr.ens.tek.com!uw-beaver!pullen From: pullen@cs.washington.edu (Walter D. Pullen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage Subject: Antahkarana: Further Information Summary: Excerpts from Antahkarana materials Keywords: Antahkarana Message-ID: <1992Mar20.113602.6465@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Date: 20 Mar 92 11:36:02 GMT References: <1992Mar19.034111.11392@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Sender: news@beaver.cs.washington.edu (USENET News System) Organization: University of Washington Computer Science Lines: 70 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5006 alt.paranormal:4676 talk.religion.newage:9853 For those that have been expressing interest in my earler post introducing the spiritual group of Antahkarana, as well as those interested in such related material in general, I have three spiritual messages I would like to share, each which happens to be related to Antahkarana in that they were either received or written by people related to the group. The first is a very short channeled message received by Arasia, the group founder (who was also the Seattle, WA anchor for the 11:11), on January 10, 1992 (i.e. the day before the Activation itself). I have included it at the end of this article. The second and third are extraterrestrial related material and are in separate articles (in alt.alien.visitors). The second article is an examination of the ET phenomena written by Arasia, looking at how we interpret "good" vs. "bad" alien visitors. (Note that it starts out "Today March 20th is the Spring Equinox", but that is just a coincidence in that it was written exactly a year ago!) The last article is a channeled message from the Ashtar Command itself, received by Jean Peterson (the author of the book "Oneness Remembered"), related to a gathering that took place on 11-11-1990 where a "petitioning" of the Space Brotherhood for readmission of Earth to the Intergalactic Confederation took place. Again, if any of these articles have piqued your curiosity and you wish to explore the topics further, feel free to contact me at my e-mail address, or Arasia at ANTAHKARANA, The Star People Connection, 501 N. 36th St. #140, Seattle, WA 98103. Thank you for taking the time to listen and to share. _______________________________________________________________________ CHANNELED MESSAGE REGARDING THE 11:11 AND THE IMPORTANCE OF DISCERNMENT My Dear Ones, It is with great joy and anticipation that we of the heavenly hosts watch from above at the tremendous awakening and quickening of spirit. We open our hearts and our arms to you as you prepare to make your ascension into our midst. Your agreements and ours have existed for a very long time and as you start to stir and remember your true place in the stars you will find your lives will start to go more smoothly. It is important not to loose sight of the true significance of this awakening and this day. There are two doors to be opened. To focus on just the external one would be a great mistake. The door within your being is the eternally significant one. There is much work to be done as you reach for the hands of your brothers and sisters who have yet to awaken to their diving heritage. The personal and planetary ascension is available from everyone, not a select few. Beware of the pitfalls of glamour and cliquishness and believing you are the only chosen ones. The Father wishes to gather all of his sheep and I as shepard ask your assistance in completing that task. I work with my brothers of all faiths and belief systems as on the higher realms we are all One. I stand along with Michael and his legions of Angels, your Guides and Teachers and Masters of the Spiritual Hierarchy of this planet. We also serve with the beloved brothers and sisters of the Intergalactic Confederation who serve diligently and watch over the Mother with vigilance as she goes through her great birthing process as the great Plan of the creative Source is brought to fruition. We all serve the radiant one of our being together as one with you. I AM your elder brother, JESUS THE CHRIST, known in the celestial realms as SANANDA inviting you to enter the house of many mansions. -- Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!uw-beaver!pullen From: pullen@cs.washington.edu (Walter D. Pullen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Antahkarana: An Examination Of The ET Phenomena Keywords: Antahkarana Message-ID: <1992Mar20.113950.6651@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Date: 20 Mar 92 11:39:50 GMT References: <1992Mar19.034111.11392@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <1992Mar20.113602.6465@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Sender: news@beaver.cs.washington.edu (USENET News System) Organization: University of Washington Computer Science Lines: 100 MAKING SENSE OUT OF NON-SENSE A Closer Look At The E.T. Phenomena By Arasia Today, March 20th is the Spring Equinox. To quote a familiar saying, "Spring is busting out all over". Since the 1990's have arrived something else has been busting out all over. The concern over the possibility that we are being taken over by alien intelligences that have been allowed into Earth's domain by our government. The topic of conversation in some New Age circles, as well as in the camps of our more Fundamentalist brethren is that we have been sold out to the aliens, and they are having us for dinner, stealing our children, abducting our neighbors, and in general submitting us to all kinds of outlandish sexual perversions. There is too much of this talk and fear for us to any longer push this topic of conversation under the table, for fear we might call forth these energies and then these awful things may happen to us. Knowledge is always the best defense against an attack, real or imagined. There are far too many of these incidents for us to continue to waste our time on the discussion of whether these alleged attacks are true. They are certainly true for the people they have happened to. We as concerned caring people may want to get to the bottom of what is happening to our brothers and sisters. Ignoring something never makes it go away. It just finds a more subtle way to get into our consciousness. Many New Agers have a belief that it is necessary to always stay in positive energy and to never discuss anything that smacks of the negative, because they may pull it to them. I submit this is only true if fear energy is given to the discussion. Let us look at the part that these energies play in the planetary awakening. Also, what they are mirroring to us about our existence. That would be much healthier than responding out of fear or denial. We can also consider that it will not be necessary for us to participate in the reality of what is happening to others. Consider the possibility that we draw to us whatever is appropriate for our vibrational level. It is possible that those who are having these experiences may not be pulling in adequate White Light protection. Mankind has a very peculiar way of learning: The belief in "No pain, no gain." For many years the ET's have been trying to get our attention. This is not a new phenomena. Polarities seem to be necessary for us to come into balance. Thus, the friendly and unfriendly ET's. My friends, could it be that the ET phenomena is spirit in packaged form? Could it be that in Biblical times they were the Angels and Demons with which mankind interacted? Now could these same types of events be the extra-terrestrials? And could they still be trying to get our attention to remind us of our divine heritage, as divine beings who have come from the stars to be spirit in action? One possible way of looking at these events is to consider that we are all a cell of the Divine, setting out to experience itself. What are all the possibilities that can be expressed by God? A grand cosmic soap opera is one way of looking at this. Another is that we may be simultaneous essences of these beings functioning in this now point. I have had a message that, "We are them and they are us". Interesting concept, is it not? I have also gotten the message that, "We are the ships". Are we creating a new myth? Another possibility is that in the cosmos there are as many beings at many different levels of evolvement as we have on Earth. Could many of these beings be coming to explore, observe and interact with us, as we do when we send out expeditions to do cross cultural studies or colonize other nations? I believe that all these possibilities are true. Consider the probability that at this time in our history we are being visited by many different entities from many different systems and universes. Some of these beings are here to help, some to hinder and some to observe. It may be thought of as akin to a cosmic Superbowl. As the time draws nigh for the master, major, and minor astrological cycles to end we may be being reminded that what we are referencing as strange happenings are a reminder that the planetary and personal ascension is at hand. Could it be that all these beings, even those that we reference as negative are just mirroring to us our states of consciousness so that we can clean up our act in time for the big party? Maybe it's time to clean house for the Big Event. If we can learn to look at the ET happenings with delight and appreciation and learn to love all of our brethren and realize, "As Above, So Below", and "As Within, So Without" we will be able to get through this time with joy, rather than fear. Let's learn to love all aspects of creation. There may be lessons in all of this for us. Looking at the dark side in others will help us to see the dark side in ourselves as well. As the Whales and Dolphins agreed to give their lives so that we may see what we are doing to our planet, it may be that the Grey ET's are mirroring to us how we treat our fellow man. Labeling the Grey ET's as bad and the blond ET's as good could be an oversimplification. -- Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!uw-beaver!pullen From: pullen@cs.washington.edu (Walter D. Pullen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Antahkarana: A Channeled Message From The Ashtar Command Keywords: Antahkarana Message-ID: <1992Mar20.114456.6815@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Date: 20 Mar 92 11:44:56 GMT References: <1992Mar19.034111.11392@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <1992Mar20.113602.6465@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <1992Mar20.113950.6651@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Sender: news@beaver.cs.washington.edu (USENET News System) Organization: University of Washington Computer Science Lines: 76 ASHTAR COMMUNIQUE "STAR BROTHER, EARTH BROTHER" Messenger: Jean Peterson, author of "Oneness Remembered" I, ASHTAR, of the Confederation of Free Planets of this local universe, greet you, One and All, in the name of the Creator God and Lord Jesus Christ/Sananda, our commander in chief. We of the Councils would like to take this opportunity to inform you of a project of cooperation between the Interstellar Command, the Planetary Hierarchy, and Antahkarana. We have directed those of Antahkarana to assist man of Earth in examining his own heart and mind. This will entail the cooperation, the interlinking of the energies of the third and higher dimensions, extending to the Creator God. We plan to cooperate in establishing this link in a technological, pragmatic, twentieth century working relationship. One way this cooperation between dimensions can become a reality, is for Earthman, in the majority, to invite us to land openly on your planet. To interfere in the affairs of man without an invitation is in violation of the interplanetary law. We feel that physical evidence can pivot the balance of mankind into RIGHT THINKING AND RIGHT ACTION. This unity can then bring about a vibration high enough so that Mother Earth can progress forward into the next state of her evolution. We have begun to establish a networking community of cooperation among light workers across the globe of Earth. The purpose is to combine energies so that the combined light of all light workers will form an even larger concentric circle. Through this interlinking they will be reaching a helping hand connecting those of the higher frequency to all Earth brothers. In this way we hope to alleviate the tension, the tears, the agony of Earth people as they attune themselves to the incoming energies of that called by the prophets of old, "The End Times". As these energies wash over the land of Earth, all will receive or reject them as to the level of development they have attained spiritually. We hope with the emphasis on unity, to be of assistance to those of Earth who are feeling the residue of tension, anger, hurt, and dismay at the perceived chaos in their lives. We wish to inform those of Earth who work with us: Now is the time to unite into the oneness of purpose that will require of you to create the vibration for us to land. We wish you to lay aside any personal, petty behavior, beliefs, attitudes, and emotions that you have created for each other and join hands, minds and hearts in the joint endeavor between dimensions. As in the movie "E.T.", when the finger of the alien E.T. touches the finger of Earthman, so can the energies of higher frequencies reach and work with those in the third dimension. We wish to create this link with all of you in a stronger more personal way. We are offering you this opportunity to create a happening on Earth of a magnitude that will change the destiny of man away from that of materialism and aggression, and propel him into his next stage of evolution in an easy way. This can be accomplished my brothers and sisters of Earth, with the combined energies of the higher frequencies, the Interstellar Commands and collective mankind. Man's continued insensitivity to the way he treats his fellow man and Mother Earth has the potential to create a cataclysm of a magnitude that can literally shift the poles of the Earth and eliminate life as you know it. We wish to offer this helping hand to you, our brothers and sisters of Earth, by offering to land openly on your planet, BY INVITATION and sharing the knowledge we have gained with you. Then you too, may live, and be in peace, love and brotherhood together with all of creation, linked to us and beyond to the Creator God. I AM ASHTAR, your star brother of the planet Venus working with you my Earth brothers to assist Earth in her transformation into the higher frequencies of understanding known as the higher dimensions, or the Golden Age of man. So be it, Adonai, Adonai, Adonai! -- Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!ucbvax!Nitro.CtEdge.COM!djk From: djk@Nitro.CtEdge.COM Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: The Censor Message-ID: Date: 19 Mar 92 11:06:37 GMT References: Sender: usenet@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Organization: NMS&Systems Engineering Lines: 35 To: djk Subject: Re: The Censor From: djk (Daniel J. Karnes) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 18 Mar 92 17:28:34 PST In-Reply-To: <92078.150647EEMA092@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> Path: ctedge!netcomsv!decwrl!mips!sdd.hp.com!usc!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!hsdndev!dartvax!mars.caps.maine.edu!maine.maine.edu!eema092 From: EEMA092@MAINE.MAINE.EDU Newsgroups: alt.paranormal Subject: The Censor Message-ID: <92078.150647EEMA092@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> Date: 18 Mar 92 20:06:46 GMT Organization: University of Maine System Lines: 19 There's this strange phenomenon I and some of my friends have experienced before, and I was just wondering if anyone else has ever run into this. I (we) call it the Cosmic Censor, for lack of a better name. What usually happens is this. We'll be having a conversation, and it will turn philosophical. Often the philosophical angle gets quite deep. A certain level of excitement will build up if we start to feel we're "onto something" (ie some fundemental truth). Almost always, as one of us is about to say the next most obvious thing, a presence will make itself known. A definite chill enters the air, and there is a sense that this "visitor" is waiting to see what is spoken next. It's totally freaky, and tends to bring such conversations to a quick halt. This is why we named it the Censor. Sounds pretty strange, I know. It may just be some sort of group trance-out thing, or something, I don't know, that's why I'm asking here if others have encountered it. Email responses are fine w/me. jeff, eema092@maine Path: ns-mx!uunet!bonnie.concordia.ca!nstn.ns.ca!cs.dal.ca!ug.cs.dal.ca!franklin From: franklin@ug.cs.dal.ca (Steve Franklin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Antahkarana: A Channeled Message From The Ashtar Command Keywords: Antahkarana Message-ID: <1992Mar20.134612.29648@cs.dal.ca> Date: 20 Mar 92 13:46:12 GMT References: <1992Mar20.113602.6465@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <1992Mar20.113950.6651@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <1992Mar20.114456.6815@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Sender: usenet@cs.dal.ca (USENET News) Organization: Math, Stats & CS, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada Lines: 17 Nntp-Posting-Host: ug.cs.dal.ca Oh my God... I knew I subscribed to this group for a reason... THis guy quoted E.T. in his prophesy? Holy cow... Also, if this group promises us so much, can they guarantee that we won't have to contend with another tele-evangelist ever? Now that would be something to worship... I guess I should be impressed that ASHTAR watches tv though... It's neat that Venus gets cable... I think this guy is just sucking up to us because he wants ethernet of his own... Much more relaxing then sending brain signals millions of miles across space to his "star brothers" (sexist ass! no women huh?) steve (who gets channeled messages like these after a good night of drinking) -- aasdSteveFranklin-Subliminal Psychology Major.ks;dlasBlueJaysRULEkasdfeahsdbfl sd;lfaswoq[eBuyMeAQuadra!!!mbnZMXCNdfsba;KdSPAMiuroqiyetIBMSuxiweuryth'ewr;mxn qpuepriuPartyOneqtuj;,n.,xnc,kjasFlameMeNot!;lkj;lkgkjd;askElvisLivesjhfquweru zx.cfranklin@ug.cs.dal.ca,sk;t;lrut[Superboy@ac.dal.cav.zx,Physics!eq3rwkh;oHA Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!news.nd.edu!John.P.Donnelly.1@nd.edu From: John.P.Donnelly.1@nd.edu (Sean Donnelly) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Zontar? Message-ID: <1992Mar20.134733.9594@news.nd.edu> Date: 20 Mar 92 13:47:33 GMT References: <92079.163105STDNTFE9@LMUACAD.BITNET> Sender: news@news.nd.edu (USENET News System) Distribution: na Organization: University of Notre Dame-Multi Media Lab Lines: 22 In article <92079.163105STDNTFE9@LMUACAD.BITNET>, STDNTFE9@LMUACAD.BITNET writes: > > I hear strange stories that there is a psychic in Europe you claims to able to > communicate spiritually with an alien being named Zontar? I've read vague repo > rts also that he communicates with him through a sort of space operator? What > is this all about? > > Bewildered, > Nora > > Yes, this person does exist, as I've seen an article on him in the London Times Sunday supplement. Apparently he goes into a trance and channels the alien, Zontar Zontar, according to the psychic, has no plans for planetary conquest. In fact, Zontar claims he's been communicating with Earthlings for centuries. He also suggests that humans may have descended from his race. Any other info on Zontar out there? SeanD Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!news.nd.edu!bsu-cs!bsu-ucs.uucp!00njhavert From: 00njhavert@bsu-ucs.uucp Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Abducted while driving? Message-ID: <1992Mar19.215003.4656@bsu-ucs.uucp> Date: 20 Mar 92 02:50:03 GMT Lines: 27 Tell me what you think... I was driving home from my girlfriend's house on a country back-road late one night, probably two or three o'clock in the m morning. Anyway, when you're driving down this back road, you have to stop at this somewhat major intersection that has a four-way stop. The road you cross is a somewhat busy road, and you just can't miss it because it's very well lit due to there being several accidents in that area, because people drive like maniacs. So, I'm on my way home and the song "You Make Me So Very Happy" comes on the radio as I go over the top of one of many hills along this old road. So I'm drivin'. And drivin'. And drivin'. And I'm thinking, where the hell is this four-way stop. It should be here soon, shouldn't it? Suddenly, I come over the next hill and I beside this old grave- yard where I always turn off to go to my house. Only, this graveyard is at least five miles away from this four-way stop. Also, the song that had just come on the radio was suddenly over. My girlfriend thinks I slept through the four-way stop, but I really don't think so. It's too far of a distance to sleep through. Any thoughts? This happened about three years ago. Nik Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!morale From: morale@sage4b.its.rpi.edu (Enrique Morales) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Abducted while driving? Message-ID: <6vgtm#-@rpi.edu> Date: 20 Mar 92 17:08:20 GMT References: <1992Mar19.215003.4656@bsu-ucs.uucp> Lines: 51 Nntp-Posting-Host: sage4b.its.rpi.edu 00njhavert@bsu-ucs.uucp writes: > Tell me what you think... > I was driving home from my girlfriend's house on a country >back-road late one night, probably two or three o'clock in the m >morning. > Anyway, when you're driving down this back road, you >have to stop at this somewhat major intersection that has a >four-way stop. The road you cross is a somewhat busy road, and >you just can't miss it because it's very well lit due to there being >several accidents in that area, because people drive like maniacs. > So, I'm on my way home and the song "You Make Me So Very >Happy" comes on the radio as I go over the top of one of many hills >along this old road. > So I'm drivin'. And drivin'. And drivin'. And I'm thinking, >where the hell is this four-way stop. It should be here soon, shouldn't >it? > Suddenly, I come over the next hill and I beside this old grave- >yard where I always turn off to go to my house. Only, this graveyard is >at least five miles away from this four-way stop. Also, the song that >had just come on the radio was suddenly over. > My girlfriend thinks I slept through the four-way stop, but >I really don't think so. It's too far of a distance to sleep through. >Any thoughts? This happened about three years ago. >Nik If anybody comes up with any theories, I'd like to know also. I drive long distances very often and this has happened at least three times that I can remember. Another time, I was driving and listening to a cassette. I'll admit I was very tired, but the next thing I remember is that I was further down the road and the tape sounded as if it was in fast forward (same as when you press play & FF on players). I hit the eject button and checked the tape and it was fine. I put it back and it played fine the rest of the time. I've driven from N.Y. to Ca. and back. I've driven up and down the east coast. I make frequent trips between Albany and Boston and between Albany and NYC. No matter how tired I am I never fall asleep. I've driven with others before so I know. These things only happen when I'm alone. I had entertained the idea that it was my subconscious driving while I slept(knowing where the road from having traveled so much and being able to drive with my eyes closed), but some of these roads I hadn't driven in before. Enrique aka juggler P.S. e-mail me or post which ever.. Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!morale From: morale@sage4b.its.rpi.edu (Enrique Morales) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Visitations) Message-ID: Date: 20 Mar 92 17:24:12 GMT References: <=h9hjhjnoring@netcom.com> <484@grivel.une.oz.au> <19MAR199219013628@erich.triumf.ca> Lines: 82 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5014 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1197 Nntp-Posting-Host: sage4b.its.rpi.edu vincent@erich.triumf.ca (pete) writes: >In article <484@grivel.une.oz.au>, > daryl@neumann.une.oz.au (Daryl Essam) writes... >>In article <=h9hjhjnoring@netcom.com>, noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes: >>> In boltj@reis53.alleg.edu (Jennifer Bolt) writes: >>> >>> >Wake up, The universe is too big, and the distances too great for aliens to >>> >travel back and forth, that is from the Earth back to where ever. So no >>> >aliens have probably come to Earth, although it is almost definite that >>> >life must exist elsewhere... you are making an error here.Just because the set of all even numbers is infinite, it doesn't mean that one of them "is almost definetly" odd. This is the same as what you are saying that just because there are an infinite number of worlds one of them "is almost definetly" inhabited.At most you can only say that it is possible, not "almost definite." >>> If the only way to travel from one point in the universe to another point >>> is to move through the space between the points, then Jennifer is correct >>> because, according to Relativity (either SR or GR), and backed up with >>> much experimental evidence, no object of mass can travel through >>> space greater >>> than (or even equal to, in reality) the speed of light in a vacuum. >>> >>> However, has it ever occured to you that it may be possible to alter space >>> itself and reduce or even eliminate the space between any two points >>> in space? I think that you have been reading too much _Dune_( or watched the movie one too many times). >> >> I tend to think of this as wishful thinking. Relativity >> is quite depressing, and I wish it did not hold, but at the moment I think >>that given the current evidence. Its reasonable to assume that it does. >> >> However, who is to say that a journey that takes a hundred, even a >>thousand years would be considered unreasonable by an alien race. Just some >>of the possible options are; >> >> It is a possiblity that an alien race could enter a state of suspended >>animation, either artificially; or it could be an inate ability, in a similar >>manner to how some animals hybernate. ... now you are getting to some believable stuff. >> Or, if the race had a long life-span, say a million years or greater, >>they could consider a trip to Earth to be the equivalent of having to drive >>for an hour to get to work. Or as per 200 years ago, when it took 9 months >>(ie 1-2% of their lifetime) to get from England to Australia. >> >> I'm just saying that the argument seems to be that it takes too long >>to go anywhere in space, but too long is a relative term. >> DE Wow!! A good conclusion. >Something you all may be neglecting is that the elapsed time of an object >travelling near the speed of light is (distance)/(~c) only for the >observer in the planetary frame observing the object going past. For >an observer in the object (craft), velocity and distance behave in a >purely Newtonian fashion, ie. continuing acceleration yields increasing >speed with no limitation, so that several lightyears can be traversed >in a matter of weeks. The only problem is that after decelerating back >to the planetary reference frame, the traveller discovers that some >large number of years have elapsed in that frame. Whether that is a >problem depends on the traveller's psychological disposition. It's >just the same as the twin 'paradox'. If you don't mind missing a few >hundred years of history, it's no big deal. Hear, Hear!! This is more like it!!! Enrique aka juggler ================================================= || ever heard of tachyons??(sp.) || || no, they have written to me. || ================================================= Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!bible From: bible@iastate.edu (Anthony E Bible) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Visitations) Message-ID: <1992Mar20.182200.19700@news.iastate.edu> Date: 20 Mar 92 18:22:00 GMT References: <=h9hjhjnoring@netcom.com> <484@grivel.une.oz.au> <19MAR199219013628@erich.triumf.ca> Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA Lines: 44 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5015 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1198 In article <19MAR199219013628@erich.triumf.ca> vincent@erich.triumf.ca (pete) writes: stuff about long distances and alien creature's traits deleted. > >Something you all may be neglecting is that the elapsed time of an object >travelling near the speed of light is (distance)/(~c) only for the >observer in the planetary frame observing the object going past. For >an observer in the object (craft), velocity and distance behave in a >purely Newtonian fashion, ie. continuing acceleration yields increasing >speed with no limitation, so that several lightyears can be traversed >in a matter of weeks. The only problem is that after decelerating back >to the planetary reference frame, the traveller discovers that some >large number of years have elapsed in that frame. Whether that is a >problem depends on the traveller's psychological disposition. It's >just the same as the twin 'paradox'. If you don't mind missing a few >hundred years of history, it's no big deal. > > Pete makes a good point here. It may not be long in your local time, but, then again, better make sure you don't leave anything behind. I'd also like to add a little arithmetic to the discussion, and solicit criticism of my simple-minded analysis -- *if* solicitation is required. (Sorry about the units, but it's been a long time since I did Physics and such, and I do not recall the numbers in mks.) c = 186,000 miles/sec = 9.82 * 10^8 feet/sec g = 32.2 ft/sec^2 t = c / g = 30.5 * 10^6 seconds = 353 days It appears to me that it would take about a year (local time) to get up to speed (and another year to get down from speed) if you could sustain an acceleration of one earth-gravity. I guess if you get close enough to the speed of light the transit time becomes negligible, so it would take about a couple years, and that does not seem too bad. 'Course you could reduce the time by increasing the g's, but that takes us back to alternate biology for the aliens. This leads me to wonder what you can burn that will produce 1-g for two years. Perhaps dilithium crystals ... Regards, tony Path: ns-mx!uunet!charon.amdahl.com!amdahl!JUTS!duts!dfs30 From: dfs30@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise Solis) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Abducted while driving? Message-ID: Date: 20 Mar 92 18:50:17 GMT References: <1992Mar19.215003.4656@bsu-ucs.uucp> Sender: netnews@ccc.amdahl.com Reply-To: dfs30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise) Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA Lines: 23 In article <1992Mar19.215003.4656@bsu-ucs.uucp> 00njhavert@bsu-ucs.uucp writes: > > Tell me what you think... > > I was driving home from my girlfriend's house on a country >back-road late one night, probably two or three o'clock in the m >morning.................................. >............................................... Only, this graveyard is >at least five miles away from this four-way stop. Also, the song that >had just come on the radio was suddenly over. Don't worry too much Nik, an abduction would take longer that a five mile drive and one song. People have been known (myself included) to fall asleep with their eyes open and the good ol' subconcious knows the way home.Think you were asleep behind the wheel. That is unless of course you were abducted and the aliens threw you back :-) -- ========================================================================= All poetry posted is Copyright protected, anything else is just talk. "Tis true; theres magic in the web of it." dfs30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com ========================================================================= Path: ns-mx!uunet!timbuk.cray.com!shamash!duke!dternes From: dternes@duke.cdc.com (David Ternes) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Abducted while driving? Message-ID: <40319@shamash.cdc.com> Date: 20 Mar 92 19:45:00 GMT References: <1992Mar19.215003.4656@bsu-ucs.uucp> <6vgtm#-@rpi.edu> Sender: usenet@shamash.cdc.com Reply-To: dternes@mips.COM (David Ternes) Organization: Advanced Product Development Lines: 13 In article <6vgtm#-@rpi.edu> morale@sage4b.its.rpi.edu (Enrique Morales) writes: > >If anybody comes up with any theories, I'd like to know also. > I don't know. But I've found myself in another room in my house without remembering how I got there or why I went there except that I was looking for something. Sheesh, maybe I got abducted and they forget which room I was in. Or maybe, just maybe, I was tired or thinking about other problems and became a little absent-minded. -david Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!mercury.unt.edu!sol.acs.unt.edu!cgw From: cgw@sol.acs.unt.edu (christopher williams) Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.scientology,alt.sex Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again... Message-ID: <1992Mar20.205904.23028@mercury.unt.edu> Date: 20 Mar 92 20:59:04 GMT References: <1992Mar17.194614.26095@cunews.carleton.ca> <17MAR199217225741@vax.cc.williams.edu> <64035@apple.Apple.COM> Sender: usenet@mercury.unt.edu (UNT USENet Adminstrator) Organization: University of North Texas Lines: 46 Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2413 alt.alien.visitors:5018 alt.religion.scientology:1883 alt.sex:59390 Originator: cgw@sol.acs.unt.edu In kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >In article <64035@apple.Apple.COM> nsj@Apple.COM (Neal Johnson) writes: >>In article <17MAR199217225741@vax.cc.williams.edu> 92dms@vax.cc.williams.edu (Bat Rastard) writes: >>>In article <1992Mar17.194614.26095@cunews.carleton.ca>, wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca (Tom Hamill) writes... >>>>In article david@rosalyn.stat.uga.edu (David Gundlach) writes: >>>>>And then in dise@nightshade.cs.odu.edu (Daniel Dise) said... >>>>>% In article 92dms@vax.cc.williams.edu (Bat Rastard) writes: >>>>>% >In article wasylik@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Michael Wasylik) writes... >>>>>% >>In article david@rosalyn.stat.uga.edu (David Gundlach) writes: >>>>>% >>>And then in 92dms@vax.cc.williams.edu (Bat Rastard) said... >>>>>% >>>% In article writes... >>>>>% >>>% >In article wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca (Tom Hamill) says: >>>>>% >>>% >>In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>>>% >>>% >>>In article pdevans@daisy.waterloo.edu (Paul D Evans) writes: >>>>>% >>>% >>>>In article colby@bu-bio.bu.edu (Chris Colby) writes: >>>>>% >>>% >>>>> In article entropy@wintermute.WPI.EDU (Lawrence C. Foard) writes: >>>>>% >>>% >>>>> >In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>>>% >>>% >>>>> >>>>>% >>>% >>>>> >> GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE. >>>>>% >>>% >>>>> >>>>>% >>>% >>>>> >They will just mutate to get around it! >>>>>% >>>% >>>>> >>>>>% >>>% >>>>> >Evolution is god! >>>>>% >>>% >>>>> Sanitation is fraud: >>>>>% >>>% >>>>Sandinistas ate Maude. >>>>>% >>>% >>>Santa Claus baits God. >>>>>% >>>% >>>Satan Claws Bates Dog! Film At Eleven! >>>>>% >>>% >>Satin draws mates bod. >>>>>% >>>% >I sat in Ward's tame knob. >>>>>% >>>% I set a weird time bomb. >>>>>% >>>I shed a weird tie, Bob... >>>>>% >>I shot a wet teen babe. >>>>>% >Izod's a wasp trend, Biff. >>>>>% I drove off a west end cliff >>>>>I rode to arrest a lift. >>>>Electrodes tie my wrists. >>>Erode the Mai Tai wisps. >>He rode the May Day WASPS. >She ate the Payday wrapper. Shit! The paper clapper! -cgw- -- christopher williams cgw@unt.edu +1 817 565 4161 lead programmer/operator, university of north texas Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!wupost!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!rm105serve.sas.upenn.edu!nmehl From: nmehl@rm105serve.sas.upenn.edu (Nathan J. Mehl) Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.scientology,alt.sex Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again... Message-ID: Date: 20 Mar 92 21:59:31 GMT References: <64035@apple.Apple.COM> <1992Mar20.205904.23028@mercury.unt.edu> Sender: news@netnews.upenn.edu Reply-To: nmehl@rm105serve.sas.upenn.edu Followup-To: alt.postmodern Organization: University of Pennsylvania Lines: 10 Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2414 alt.alien.visitors:5019 alt.religion.scientology:1884 alt.sex:59418 Nntp-Posting-Host: rm105serve.sas.upenn.edu Goddamnit! If you are going to insist on continuing this thing, could you at *least* keep it filed under the same header so that when I kill it, it stays killed? Grrrr.... ************************************************************************** * -Nathan J. Mehl- * Destined to be the only queer Guns'n'Roses * * nmehl@pennsas.upenn.edu * fan on the planet. And probably deserves it. * ************************************************************************** Path: ns-mx!uunet!olivea!apple!lefty@apple.com From: lefty@apple.com (Lefty) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 ! Message-ID: <21753@goofy.Apple.COM> Date: 21 Mar 92 00:17:16 GMT References: <1992Mar1.082051.19903@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <1992Mar10.004708.1434@tc.fluke.COM> <1992Mar10.204457.1045@visix.com> <1914@tau-ceti.isc-br.com> Sender: usenet@Apple.COM Organization: Our Lady of Heavy Artillery Lines: 24 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5020 alt.pagan:13667 alt.paranormal:4679 talk.religion.newage:9862 In article <1914@tau-ceti.isc-br.com>, geraldb@tau-ceti.isc-br.com (Gerald Bryan (Denver)) writes: > > From an enlightened point of view (no, I'm not speaking from personal > experience, just repeating what I've read, like a trained dog), the inner > and the outer are the same. Heh. Joshu was walking in the courtyard of the monastery, when he heard two monks discussing the nature of reality. He pointed to a large boulder, and asked the monks whether the rock existed independently or only in their minds. After conferring briefly, one of the monks replied, "From an enlightened point of view, I would have to say that the boulder is in my mind." "Your head must be very heavy if you have a boulder that size in there," replied Joshu. -- Lefty (lefty@apple.com) C:.M:.C:., D:.O:.D:. Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!network.ucsd.edu!news.acns.nwu.edu!uicvm.uic.edu!u37460 From: U37460@uicvm.uic.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: exploding heads? Message-ID: <92080.135114U37460@uicvm.uic.edu> Date: 20 Mar 92 19:51:14 GMT References: <1992Mar19.202507.7353@mercury.unt.edu> Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago Lines: 17 In article <1992Mar19.202507.7353@mercury.unt.edu>, cgw@sol.acs.unt.edu (christopher williams) says: >can people's heads REALLY explode? i heard this on the news yesterday. > On some occasions, yes. See, you put a pop a cherry bomb in their mouth light it, and wait, oh, say 10 seconds and then BOOM, their head explodes. Hope this helps. >-cgw- > >-- >christopher williams cgw@unt.edu +1 817 565 4161 >lead programmer/operator, university of north texas * RRRR A V V EEEEE is life. Ethan Haslett DJ Crust * * R R A A V V E is life. Bitnet:U37460@UICVM * * RRRR AAAAA V V EEEE is life. InterNet: * * R R A A V V E is life. U37460@uicvm.uic.edu * * R R A A V EEEEE is life. haslett@earth.eecs.uic.edu * Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!rice!uw-beaver!pullen From: pullen@cs.washington.edu (Walter D. Pullen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: The Crop Circle Mysteries Continue Summary: Contents of an article that appeared in a local newspaper Keywords: crop circles Message-ID: <1992Mar21.002601.28488@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Date: 21 Mar 92 00:26:01 GMT Sender: news@beaver.cs.washington.edu (USENET News System) Organization: University of Washington Computer Science Lines: 242 The following article on the crop circle phenomena appeared in the February 1992 issue of the "New Times", a local spiritual newspaper. It was written by Ross Dedrickson under the article name "The crop circle mysteries continue". The content of this article, which I have reproduced below for your interest and information, is rather similar to what Questor Lau posted in his "Circles in the Fields" article earlier. It is divided into three main parts: It starts out with general information and lists the well established physical characteristics of crop circles. Then it enters into various experiences people have claimed to have in realtion to them, which although much harder to verify, are in ways more informative. Finally, a possible explanation for who is making the crop circles, why they are doing them the way they are, and for what purpose, is presented: <<<<<<<< CROP CIRCLES >>>>>>>> The appearance of crop circles attracted my curiosity years ago when scattered reports became available. Little did I realize that I would witness the spiritual exchange of ideas by the top researchers (cerealogists) at the "Cornference" held on Glastonbury, England last September. Through a chain of several meaningful coincidences I had diverted from our planned visit in England to join the cerealogists' first cornference on crop circles. A friend who had heard a report of my visit suggested that I write an article for the "New Times". In recent years the crop circles have become so numerous and so complex (no longer simple circles but intricate figures) that the term "pictogram" was adopted as their label. This amazing phenomenon has occurred in at least 26 countries worldwide. Depending on how they are counted, in 1990 England had 1200 pictograms and Australia had about 400 of them. Here in the USA and Canada pictograms occurred in scattered locations across both countries. Cerealogists have noted that an intelligence is unquestionably behind the creation of the pictograms. Although one journalist and one scientist, as a small minority, are sticking to their theory that whirlwinds or plasma vortices are the natural cause of their formation, too many incidents where the specific timing, location, and configuration have responded to individual, group thoughts, and public beliefs have occurred to ignore this interactive response. The anecdotal accounts demonstrate this intelligent response. As Pat Delgado, engineer cerealogist, said at the cornference, "The pictogram artists are two or three jumps ahead of us." The artists seems to have anticipated the watchers' thoughts, moves, and attempts to see or record a pictogram in-the-making or to see the artists at work. The ranks of the cerealogists include individual scientists, engineers, philosophers, archeologists, and historians as the more disciplined researchers. The pictogram phenomenon has also attracted poets, psychics, astrolgers, skeptics, hoaxers, and the media searching for sensational stories. The explanations from these latter folks cover a wide spectrum of ideas. These include the whirlwinds, crop fertilization, lightning flash "whistlers," Fairies, rutting deer, ground hogs, secret military experiments, and UFO actions. Needless to say the various governments are at a loss to explain the source and method of creation. Establishment science has practically ignored the study of the pictogram. Any coordinated research seems to be totally lacking at this time. The more recent pictogram configurations are similar to and in some cases duplicates of ancient symbols of very early cultures. Ancient Hebrew, Greek, Egyptian, Sumerian, Phoenician, Mayan, Caelic, and Asiatic symbols have comparative configurations. Some of the characteristics of the crop pictograms that are common to all pictograms or are occasionally encountered within pictograms are discussed below. <<<<<<<< PHYSICAL TYPE CHARACTERISTICS >>>>>>>> 1. The pictograms have not only appeared in the cereal crops such as wheat, barley, oats, and corn, but have been observed in tobacco, mustard, sugar beets, soy beans, etc., and even in sand, dirt, and snow. 2. Mature wheat stems inside the pictograms are bent as much as 90 degrees at ground level. Stems outside will break if bent beyond five degrees at the ground level where bending takes place. The cells within the outside part of the bend are swollen as though they had been heated by microwave radiation. 3. Sometimes a loud roaring, trilling, chirping, or screeching noise has been experienced by observers before, during, or after the discovery of pictograms in nearby locations. Other times these noises have been heard by investigators while within the pictograms. 4. Dark silent shapes which mask the stars, and blinking lights that are not from aircraft have been observed before, during, and after some pictogram discoveries. 5. At least four video tapes have recorded the motion of silver-colored objects floating above the crops. In all cases the objects suddenly disappeared. 6. Television camcorders, radio receivers, and tape recorders have failed to function when taken into a pictogram. (An $80,000 BBC high-tech camcorder was damaged in a pictogram and required extensive repairs.) 7. In some cases a 5.2 KH signal has been recorded by radio-type receivers taken within the pictograms, but the reception sharply disappears as the receiver is moved outside the pictogram. 8. Another type of electromagnetic energy has been recorded. One investigator, David Tilt, used a Sony TCM-3 cassette recorder fitted with a 2.5 MH RF choke. The recorder revealed a difference in the signal pulse at ground level, one meter above ground level and two meters above. The highest level has a faster signal pulse than the lower levels. 9. The affected crop is laid down in a precisely defined area. Groups of stems are compressed together to form indentifiable ribs or whirls. Often the crop stems lay in distinct layers. As many as three layers have occurred, with each layer pointing in a different direction. Both clockwise and counterclockwise whirls occur. 10. Some pictograms have "grown" or developed additions to their configuration several days after their initial formation and discovery, such as added side boxes or additional circles. 11. The crystals produced from corn stalks within the pictograms by the Spagyrik process (HSC Limited Laboratory, Stroud, U.K.) have a crystalline structure markedly different than crystals from plants outside of the pictograms. 12. The pictogram soil has been tested in some places for minute amounts of alpha radiation. Traces were present but the results were so erratic that no positive conclusions could be reached. <<<<<<<< ANOMALOUS CHARACTERISTICS >>>>>>>> 1. A strong energy field within the pictograms is readily detected by dowser, but no energy exists beyond the edges of the pictogram. 2. The pictograms seem to be dominantly associated with Earth energy lines or rays ("ley lines"), or occur over underground veins of water. They sometimes seem to have a correlation with ancient sites such as Stonehenge, Silbury Hill, or barrows (burial mounds of early cultures). 3. The latest pictograms have included extremely complex configurations involving mathematical relationships between the parts in factors of dimensions and area of triangles, circles, and celestial symbols. One pictogram was a "Mandelbrot Set" associated with fractal mathematics and Chaos Physics. 4. The creators of many of the English pictograms have left their "signatures" beside their "artwork." At least three different signatures have been identified. Each artist has his own territory. For example, the Hampshire artist uses a double eyebrow, the Wilshire a double dot, and the Avebury a comma-like double swirl. 5. The energies present in the pictograms can be very powerful. Some persons become nauseated, develop headaches, and become disoriented, while others may experience great elation. The symptoms disappear after an hour or so after the affected person leaves the pictogram. Animals tend to avoid staying in them. <<<<<<<< ANECDOTAL ASPECTS >>>>>>>> Anecdotal experiences are convincing that a reactive intelligence is present. The following few examples (out of many) demonstrate the existence of a leading/responsive intelligence. 1. Mr. Wingfield escorted a group of 12 people into a pictogram, and they heard a loud trilling sound. One woman, a sensitive, exclaimed "If you can hear us, stop." The trilling noise stopped and then resumed. 2. Another person, a witness who was observing the above group of 12 persons from a distance, observed a UFO above them; the persons in the group saw nothing unusual. 3. After wide publicity about Dr. Meaden's claim that whirlwinds were creating the crop circles, subsequent pictograms were complex key-shaped figures with triangles, rectangles, and other glyphic configurations. 4. While inside a pictogram, Mr. Andrews was informed by a companion, an intuitive, that he was to pick up a rock. He picked up what he thought was a randomly-selected rock, to be lated advised that he had been programmed to pick up that specific rock. The rock has on its underside a perfect replica of Stonehenge. 5. Mr. Bond, a well-known sensitive, walked into a wheat field. He felt heavy, hot, dizzy, paralyzed, and aware of a hum in his head and teeth. He began to panic and yelled "Oh God, help me!" Seconds later he heard a low voice in his head. It said "Be at peace. We mean you no harm. You are safe. You are standing in the middle of our craft. We are not of your dimension." The various bodily sensations faded and then as he looked around he found himself directly in the center of a circle where the wheat had been crushed in a counterclockwise pattern. 6. Mr. Jones experienced a trilling noise in his house. He was transported to a field where he saw a whirl of lights, then was just as quickly transported back to his bed. 7. While looking into a field at night, Mr. Haddington saw several hundred black rods seemingly dancing among the corn stalks. 8. A variety of eyewitnesses have described red, glowing orbs, blue flashes of light, large translucent orange spheres, and silvery disks or globes moving in and over the crop fields. 9. An isolated case of healing occurred when a woman with an injured shoulder (tennis player) found her injury healed after sitting in a pictogram while taking research notes. Her companion, who suffered from a chronic illness in which her stomach acids ulcerated her throat and who thus could not sleep reclining, found that she had also been cured. <<<<<<<< POSSIBLE EXPLANATION >>>>>>>> On the eve of my departure to England, I was consulting an intuitive on other matters when I had an impulse to ask about the origin of the crop circles. The following explanation is word-for-word as transcribed from the audio tape into my computer. As I listened to the proceeding of the cornference it seemed to offer clues to many of the issues raised. I and other believe it offers some insight as to the source of the formation of crop pictograms. <<<<<<<< CROP "CIRCLES" >>>>>>>> "Extra-terrestrials or interdimensional entities from other than your physical plane are creating the crop circles and agri-glyphs. There is a growing momentum by the inter-dimensional community to be recognized by your Earth community. So these phenomena have come about gradually, a little at a time, to draw the attention of the public and their governments of the different countries." "The purpose of these activities is to obtain recognition of the existence of these entities. The entities have great intelligence; they do not wish to shock the people by sudden physical appearances, but wish to become gradually known, and to present information and evidence to the people and governments of the countries so that the governments must publicly study and reveal the evidence and to welcome the entities. The entities use this method of communication to your world so that humans will not view them as fearful monsters." "There will be more and more of these phenomena until the governments have to break their vow of silence and reveal the nature of these entities, and to make public the information about the entities. This government recognition will not occur for a number of months or a few years until the government can no longer remain silent or deny the existence of the entities." "The entities use ancient symbols to communicate an awareness of Earth's culture. They wish to cause curiosity in the people of the communities and to draw widespread attention. They do not use totally foreign symbols but use simple one for your Earth's intelligence, because their intelligence is far advanced over Earth's." "The simple symbols of Earth's early cultures have been used to promote speculation and discussion among your people. There will be more of these phenomena throughout parts of your Earth." (Received 25 August, 1991, from a panel of six entities in another dimension on the eve of a trip to England to learn more about the so-called crop "circles".) -- -|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|- | Walter D. "Cruiser1" Pullen | pullen@lynx.cs.washington.edu | -|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|- | "Who am I, What am I? As I am, I am not. But as we are, I AM. And to | - you my creation, My Perfect Love is your Perfect Freedom. And I will be - | with you forever and ever, until the End, and then forever more." - GOD | -|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|- Path: ns-mx!uunet!world!kibo From: kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.fan.warlord Subject: Re: exploding heads? Message-ID: Date: 21 Mar 92 06:28:12 GMT References: <1992Mar19.202507.7353@mercury.unt.edu> <92080.135114U37460@uicvm.uic.edu> Organization: A room filled with typography (in Boston's Back Bay) Lines: 26 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5023 alt.fan.warlord:2930 In article <92080.135114U37460@uicvm.uic.edu> U37460@uicvm.uic.edu writes: >In article <1992Mar19.202507.7353@mercury.unt.edu>, cgw@sol.acs.unt.edu >(christopher williams) says: >>can people's heads REALLY explode? i heard this on the news yesterday. >> >On some occasions, yes. See, you put a pop a cherry bomb in their mouth >light it, and wait, oh, say 10 seconds and then BOOM, their head explodes. >Hope this helps. We do that in alt.exploding.kibo all too infrequently. >* RRRR A V V EEEEE is life. Ethan Haslett DJ Crust * >* R R A A V V E is life. Bitnet:U37460@UICVM * >* RRRR AAAAA V V EEEE is life. InterNet: * >* R R A A V V E is life. U37460@uicvm.uic.edu * >* R R A A V EEEEE is life. haslett@earth.eecs.uic.edu * What is life? I'm not clear on this. Maybe you'd better draw me a diagram. It's so small and non-repetetive... ^,^ -- K. -- .................. ................................................... James "Kibo" Parry 271 Dartmouth St #3D, Boston MA 02116 (617)262-3922 kibo@world.std.com Independent graphic designer and typeface designer. Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!news.utdallas.edu!convex!egsner!sdf!hideo From: hideo@sdf.lonestar.org (David Carter) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: SLAC Message-ID: <1992Mar21.002820.21992@sdf.lonestar.org> Date: 21 Mar 92 00:28:20 GMT Distribution: alt.ale[Dien.visitors Organization: sdf Public Access UNIX, Dallas--unrestricted free shell access Lines: 13 Wow! This may be off the subject but how many e-volts ya got bouncing around in there? Many I bet! That's a great gig! I like the acronym too. You should post on alt.slack. OK back to the saucer jockeys! David Carter : URANUS: not truly a place aka Hideo Gump : where the Sun don't shine, Dallas, Texas USA : but certainly a place where hideo@sdf.lonestar.org : the Sun shines dimly! Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!news.utdallas.edu!convex!egsner!sdf!hideo From: hideo@sdf.lonestar.org (David Carter) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: particle smashing Message-ID: <1992Mar21.003531.22186@sdf.lonestar.org> Date: 21 Mar 92 00:35:31 GMT Distribution: alt.alien.visitors Organization: sdf Public Access UNIX, Dallas--unrestricted free shell access Lines: 16 Wow, what a gig! This may be off the subject, but how insanely many electron volts ya got bouncing around in there? Is smashing atoms hard??? hehe, just jokin'. I'm impressed, really. David Carter : URANUS: not truly a place aka Hideo Gump : where the Sun don't shine, Dallas, Texas USA : but certainly a place where hideo@sdf.lonestar.org : the Sun shines dimly! Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!pacbell.com!decwrl!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: The Talmud as Given by Judas Iscariot Message-ID: Date: 22 Mar 92 03:57:43 GMT References: <9203121915.AA11631@echidna.swdc.stratus.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 27 From the now-defunct (and aptly-named) UFO and "Fortean" magazine Caveat Emptor, Fall, 1989, p. 21: Eduard Meier, the controversial Swiss contactee who claims to be in touch with "beamships" from the Pleiades, also claims to possess a translation of an ancient Aramaic document called the *Talmud Jmmanuel*. The document resolves some questions about the traditional version of the New Testament, and also contains some UFO material. Jim Deardorff, former senior scientist at the National Center for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, Colorado, took early retirement to study the Meier material. He has written a book called *Cultural Teachings: The Emergency (sic) of the True Testament of Immanuel (Jesus)*, which will be available later this year from: Blue Water Publishing, P.O. Box 23093, Tigard, OR 97224. -- Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! "The facts can only take you so far in this case.", - Oliver Stone, discussing "JFK" on CBS-TV's "48 Hours", Feb. 5, 1992 Path: ns-mx!uunet!zephyr.ens.tek.com!psgrain!quagga!cc186.ru.ac.za!g90m1473 From: g90m1473@giraffe.ru.ac.za (MR CR MAIN) Newsgroups: alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Dreamland Message-ID: Date: 21 Mar 92 19:15:36 GMT References: <1992Feb29.235824.9719@microsoft.com> <3100@inca.comlab.ox.ac.uk> <1992Mar13.025609.18907@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU> Sender: usenet@quagga.ru.ac.za (Rhodes University NNTP server) Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa Lines: 37 Xref: ns-mx alt.paranormal:4680 alt.alien.visitors:5027 sci.skeptic:22027 In article <1992Mar13.025609.18907@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU> dabbott@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU (Derek Abbott) writes: >In article <3100@inca.comlab.ox.ac.uk> leaver@prg.ox.ac.uk (Andrew Leaver) writes: >>In article <1992Feb29.235824.9719@microsoft.com>, marcmil@microsoft.com (Marc MILANINI) writes: >>> >>> >>>Seems to me that you missed an -another?- opportunity to shut up. First, >>>I don't think that Newton was really a genius. Hard-working, certainly, >>>but his intelligence was quite common, I believe. >>> ... >>> >> >>Obviously, whether any particular person was a genius or not is >>a matter of opinion. However, in the `History of Science' type books >>and Encyclopaedia entries I have read on Newton (check Encyclopaedia >>Britannica, and Isaac Asimov's book of biographies) the general >>consensus is that he was one of the brightest scientists the world has >>seen, perhaps even *the* most brilliant. He was also, by all accounts, a >>rather unpleasant guy - but that's beside the point! >> >>>-- >>>=---K8>>@@@@@@@@ Marc Milanini @@@@ marcmil@microsoft.com @@@@%% >> >>Andrew ------------------------------------- Andrew.Leaver@uk.ac.oxford.prg >Wasn't it Thomas Alva Edison who said "Genius is 99% perspiration and >1% inspiration." ??? >Derek :-) If Thomas Alva Edison said that, he cannot possibly have been anything close to a genius. True genius requires far less thinking than average to get a project completed. In my opinion very few true geniuses have ever existed. Elbert being one of the very few. Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!nevada.edu!jimi!equinox!unssun.nevada.edu!lsmith From: lsmith@unssun.nevada.edu (Larry Smith) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Face on Mars Message-ID: <3125@equinox.unr.edu> Date: 20 Mar 92 13:34:01 GMT Sender: news@equinox.unr.edu Reply-To: lsmith@unssun.nevada.edu (Larry Smith) Distribution: alt Organization: University of Nevada, Reno Lines: 17 I've never seen the face on Mars, but I was reading the Weekly World News a few weeks ago and saw that a B-17g of the 8th Air Force had been spotted crash landed on Mars. The story went on to say that the crew had survived the crash, and the pilot, a Captain E. Presley had been using the bomber's radio to transmit messages back to earth. Among the messages recieved were... "Mars needs women" and "You ain't nothin' but a hounddog" Just the facts ma'm..... LAPD Sgt. Joe Friday Facts? I don't need no stinkin' facts! Rush Limbaugh Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!warwick!covpoly!cch.coventry.ac.uk!cbj005 From: cbj005@cch.coventry.ac.uk (The Mistress) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.flame Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again... Message-ID: Date: 21 Mar 92 14:10:46 GMT References: <17MAR199217225741@vax.cc.williams.edu> <64035@apple.Apple.COM> Sender: ouz044@cck.coventry.ac.uk (USENET News Owner) Organization: Manipulators Inc. Lines: 54 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5029 alt.flame:36258 Nntp-Posting-Host: cc_sysh In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >In article <64035@apple.Apple.COM> nsj@Apple.COM (Neal Johnson) writes: >>In article <17MAR199217225741@vax.cc.williams.edu> 92dms@vax.cc.williams.edu (Bat Rastard) writes: >>>In article <1992Mar17.194614.26095@cunews.carleton.ca>, wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca (Tom Hamill) writes... >>>>In article david@rosalyn.stat.uga.edu (David Gundlach) writes: >>>>>And then in dise@nightshade.cs.odu.edu (Daniel Dise) said... >>>>>% In article 92dms@vax.cc.williams.edu (Bat Rastard) writes: >>>>>% >In article wasylik@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Michael Wasylik) writes... >>>>>% >>In article david@rosalyn.stat.uga.edu (David Gundlach) writes: >>>>>% >>>And then in 92dms@vax.cc.williams.edu (Bat Rastard) said... >>>>>% >>>% In article writes... >>>>>% >>>% >In article wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca (Tom Hamill) says: >>>>>% >>>% >>In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>>>% >>>% >>>In article pdevans@daisy.waterloo.edu (Paul D Evans) writes: >>>>>% >>>% >>>>In article colby@bu-bio.bu.edu (Chris Colby) writes: >>>>>% >>>% >>>>> In article entropy@wintermute.WPI.EDU (Lawrence C. Foard) writes: >>>>>% >>>% >>>>> >In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>>>% >>>% >>>>> >>>>>% >>>% >>>>> >> GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE. >>>>>% >>>% >>>>> >>>>>% >>>% >>>>> >They will just mutate to get around it! >>>>>% >>>% >>>>> >>>>>% >>>% >>>>> >Evolution is god! >>>>>% >>>% >>>>> Sanitation is fraud: >>>>>% >>>% >>>>Sandinistas ate Maude. >>>>>% >>>% >>>Santa Claus baits God. >>>>>% >>>% >>>Satan Claws Bates Dog! Film At Eleven! >>>>>% >>>% >>Satin draws mates bod. >>>>>% >>>% >I sat in Ward's tame knob. >>>>>% >>>% I set a weird time bomb. >>>>>% >>>I shed a weird tie, Bob... >>>>>% >>I shot a wet teen babe. >>>>>% >Izod's a wasp trend, Biff. >>>>>% I drove off a west end cliff >>>>>I rode to arrest a lift. >>>>Electrodes tie my wrists. >>>Erode the Mai Tai wisps. >>He rode the May Day WASPS. >She ate the Payday wrapper. > > >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH. I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD STOP IT. >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*. Your wish is my command!!!!!! *:-) -- |The /\/\istress of /\/\anipulation, cbj005@cck.cov.ac.uk, | |"Whats civil about engineering", Coventry Poly 27/10/91 | |"...So Paul, being the stable rational soul that he is, | | decided to kill him.." Shadowrun | Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!news From: dyett@phad.hsc.usc.edu (Donald Yett) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Abductions and Visitations Message-ID: Date: 22 Mar 92 09:02:27 GMT References: <=h9hjhjnoring@netcom.com> <1359@transfer.stratus.com> Sender: dyett@phad.hsc.usc.edu (Donald Yett) Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA Lines: 30 NNTP-Posting-Host: phad.hsc.usc.edu In article <1359@transfer.stratus.com> tarl@sw.stratus.com (Tarl Neustaedter) writes: > >I keep hearing this canard as a justification that we can't possibly know >anything, so we must assume everything is possible. There may have been Obviously you are not a scientist! A true scientist must believe that anything is possible, and then attempt to prove himself right or wrong. [now exiting reality] Going by your arguments: I conclude that you do not exist, by proof [using your reasoning] All I see here is an argument that could have been generated by a computer for all I know, I have never seen you, therefore you must not exist! [back to reality here] I choose to take the assumption that you do exist. I also believe that anything is possible until it can be proven otherwise. And even then, the proof against must be occasionally re-examined. You have been sitting behind a desk pushing a pencil, and questioning your abilities for too long. You have forgotten the reason why science exists. We are the new generation, we exist to prove you wrong! :) -- +-------------------------+---------------------------------------------------- | dyett@phad.hsc.usc.edu | I will not be pushed, stamped, filed, indexed, | Just my opinions! | briefed, debriefed, or numbered! - #6, The Prisoner +-------------------------+---------------------------------------------------- Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!dcl-cs!jps From: jps@comp.lancs.ac.uk (Mr J P Smalley) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Distance Keywords: Too far? Message-ID: <1992Mar22.124419.28362@comp.lancs.ac.uk> Date: 22 Mar 92 12:44:19 GMT References: <1992Mar18.054631.11651@eskimo.celestial.com> Organization: Department of Computing at Lancaster University, UK. Lines: 16 In article <1992Mar18.054631.11651@eskimo.celestial.com> nanook@eskimo.celestial.com (Robert Dinse) writes: > > I believe that the distances from other star systems is not too great to >be bridged, and that it is likely that aliens have visited us and perhaps are >even doing so in a regular basis. > > We know too little about the universe, how it works, to exclude that >possibility. We can't yet unite the forces of nature. Try as we might, we >don't REALLY understand gravity, space, time, or what a vacuum really is. I agree, it's very premature to dismiss any kind of potential space travel. Someone once said that "We don't know one millionth of one percent about anything" and I always keep this is mind. (Anyone know to whom the quote is attributed?). Julian Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!rutgers!ub!dsinc!pitt.edu!unix.cis.pitt.edu!seawasp From: seawasp+@pitt.edu (Ryk E Spoor) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Zontar? Message-ID: <203764@unix.cis.pitt.edu> Date: 22 Mar 92 18:05:56 GMT References: <92079.163105STDNTFE9@LMUACAD.BITNET> <1992Mar20.134733.9594@news.nd.edu> Sender: news@unix.cis.pitt.edu Distribution: na Organization: University of Pittsburgh Lines: 23 In article <1992Mar20.134733.9594@news.nd.edu> John.P.Donnelly.1@nd.edu (Sean Donnelly) writes: >In article <92079.163105STDNTFE9@LMUACAD.BITNET>, STDNTFE9@LMUACAD.BITNET writes: >> I hear strange stories that there is a psychic in Europe you claims to able to >> communicate spiritually with an alien being named Zontar? I've read vague repo >Yes, this person does exist, as I've seen an article on him in the London Times >Sunday supplement. Apparently he goes into a trance and channels the alien, Zontar >Any other info on Zontar out there? Zontars are creatures that Calvin (of Calvin and Hobbes fame) as Spaceman Spiff knows are used for torture by evil Zorg despots ("Ha! Wild Zontars couldn't drag that information out of me! Do your worst!") They are also closely related to the Hermaphroditic enemy of Ninja Force Gatchaman, Zoltar (in USA, NFG is Battle of the Planets...ick). So we can see that Zontar is a Toon. Channeling? Please, stop smoking pages from the National Inquirer. Sea Wasp /^\ ;;; Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!aa440 From: aa440@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dale Wedge) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Face on Mars Message-ID: <1992Mar22.202754.17592@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> Date: 22 Mar 92 20:27:54 GMT References: <3125@equinox.unr.edu> Sender: news@usenet.ins.cwru.edu Reply-To: aa440@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dale Wedge) Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA) Lines: 44 Nntp-Posting-Host: cwns5.ins.cwru.edu In a previous article, lsmith@unssun.nevada.edu (Larry Smith) says: > > I've never seen the face on Mars, but I was reading the Weekly >World News a few weeks ago and saw that a B-17g of the 8th Air Force >had been spotted crash landed on Mars. The story went on to say that >the crew had survived the crash, and the pilot, a Captain E. Presley >had been using the bomber's radio to transmit messages back to earth. > > Among the messages recieved were... > > "Mars needs women" and > "You ain't nothin' but a hounddog" > > > Just the facts ma'm..... > LAPD Sgt. Joe Friday > Facts? I don't need no stinkin' facts! > Rush Limbaugh > Wrongo big guy! In the mid 50's Martians landed on earth and then took control of the U.S. Congress (Democrats). On Mars, martians only write checks on a substance that can only be described here on Earth as rubber. The face that you see on Mars is that of their God, Tom Foley. You really can't make it out that good because the ears are covered. As you know, when Foley says anything wrong, his ears get bigger. Martians like massive deficeits, no holds barred checkwriting, special perks at the post office (or snort office), and releasing information contrary to the law. The Venusians, who are obscured by a dense atmosphere are actually Repub- licans. As with republicans, they don't like you to peer into anything that they do. If you were to see through the clouds of Venus, you would find a fat cat and a money symbol. When you add up Venus and Mars you can only come to one conclusion, we will be eventually run by the baddest race in the solar system, those baddies of Uranus. When you deal with them, you know where your gonna get it in the end. Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!network.jyu.fi!tola From: tola@jyu.fi (Teemu Olavi Lahteenmaki) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: pts Keywords: Get a life ! Message-ID: <1992Mar22.202910.8627@jyu.fi> Date: 22 Mar 92 20:29:10 GMT References: <16f6fdfe@nacjack.gen.nz> Organization: Intergalactical University of Jyvaskyla, Finland Lines: 10 In article <16f6fdfe@nacjack.gen.nz> Craig.O'Neill@p0.f1.n350.z199.nacjack.gen.nz (Craig O'Neill) writes: >This is probley the wrong area but I couldn't find the right one as I am only >new to the board. Can you tell me how I gt points for downloads and what is >the upload/download ratio on this board. Thanks. Get a life, this is Internet ! If you manage to find something to download from here, tell me ! -- -< Would you believe there's no signature here ? >- Path: ns-mx!uunet!polari!rwing!eskimo!delisle From: delisle@eskimo.celestial.com (Ben Delisle) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Antahkarana: A Channeled Message From The Ashtar Command Message-ID: <1992Mar22.051700.11119@eskimo.celestial.com> Date: 22 Mar 92 05:17:00 GMT References: <1992Mar20.134612.29648@cs.dal.ca> Organization: Core Dump Appreciation Society. Lines: 6 And I thought I was already in the .celestial domain. heh heh. +-(c)--------------------------+ Information is the root of knowledge. | delisle@eskimo.celestial.com | Action is the root of experience. +------------------------------+ Illusion is the root of reality. Path: ns-mx!uunet!polari!rwing!eskimo!delisle From: delisle@eskimo.celestial.com (Ben Delisle) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: terraforming Message-ID: <1992Mar22.053715.11567@eskimo.celestial.com> Date: 22 Mar 92 05:37:15 GMT References: <1992Mar18.195012.23464@pellns.alleg.edu> Organization: Core Dump Apperication Society. Lines: 17 One possible way that although uses a lot of energy, Its costs are not as high as others: push astroides in to a orbital vecter that will take it in a collision path to the target world. the resultant collision may free gasses into the asmosphere and add mass. A problem with Mars; for example, is the lack of a strong magnetic field, which has been theorized to contribute to is shalow atmosphere -- the solar winds from the Sun are not deflected by the planet's weak magnetic field, the "wind" then, as it blows by and takes with it a little bit of atmosphere. So much for that theory, I must be dreaming anyway. +-(c)--------------------------+ Information is the root of knowledge. | delisle@eskimo.celestial.com | Action is the root of experience. +------------------------------+ Illusion is the root of reality. Dump the Demobrats and Republicants, vote Libertarian. Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!fuug!mits!karttu From: karttu@mits.mdata.fi (Antti Karttunen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.drugs,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic Subject: PROGRAMMING AND METAPROGRAMMING IN THE HUMAN BIOCOMPUTER Keywords: Alien Minds, Isolation Experiments, LSD-25, John Lilly, Inner Space Message-ID: <1992Mar22.194206.23974@mits.mdata.fi> Date: 22 Mar 92 19:42:06 GMT Organization: Arvaapa se! Lines: 567 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5037 alt.drugs:23873 alt.paranormal:4683 sci.skeptic:22042 Author's Note & Second Chapter from the book: PROGRAMMING AND METAPROGRAMMING IN THE HUMAN BIOCOMPUTER written in 1967, 1968 by John Lilly, M.D. Published by The Julian Press, Inc., a member of the Crown Publishing Group, distributed by Crown Publishers, Inc., 225 Park Avenue South, New York, New York 10003 and represented in Canada by the Canadian MANDA Group. Library of Congress Catalog Number 72-189950 ISBN 0-517-52757-X 1987 Edition John C. Lilly, M.D., has studied and conducted research in the fields of biophysics, neurophysiology, electronics, and neuroanatomy. Best known for his groundbreaking work in human-dolphin relations, Dr. Lilly is the United States's leading authority on the states of solitude, isolation, and confinement and their psychological effects on the human mind. Author's Note This work has a curious history. It was written as a final summary report to a government agency (National Institute of Mental Health) concerning five years of my life work. (The agency paid my salary for the five years.) It was conceived from a space rarer these days than it was then: the laws suspending scientific interest, research, involvement and decisions about d-lysergic acid di-ethyl amide tartrate were passed just as this particular work was completed; the researchers were inadequately consulted (put down, in fact). The legislators composed laws in an atmosphere of desperation. The national negative program on LSD was launched; LSD was the big scare, on a par with War, Pestilence, and Famine as the destroyer of young brains, minds and fetuses. In this atmosphere (1966-1967) Programming and Metaprogramming in The Human Biocomputer was written. The work and its notes are dated from 1964 to 1966. The conception was formed in 1949, when I was first exposed to computer design ideas by Britton Chance. I coupled these ideas back to my own software through the atmosphere of my neurophysiological research on cerebral cortex. It was more fully elaborated in the tank isolation solitude and confinement work at NIMH from 1953 to 1958, run in parallel with the neurophysiological research on the rewarding and punishing systems in the brain. The dolphin research was similarly born in the tank, with brain electrode results as parents in the further conceptions. While I was writing this work, I was a bit too fearful to express candidly in writing the direct experience, uninterpreted. I felt that a group of thirty persons' salaries, a large research budget, a whole Institute's life depended on me and what I wrote. If I wrote the data up straight, I would have rocked the boats of several lives (colleagues and family) beyond my own stabilizer effectiveness threshold, I hypothesized. Despite my precautionary attitude, the circulation in 1967 of this work contributed to the withdrawal of research funds in 1968 from the research program on dolphins by one government agency. I heard several negative stories regarding my brain and mind, altered by LSD. At this point I closed the Institute and went to the Maryland Psychiatric Research Center to resume LSD research under government auspices. I introduced the ideas in work to the MPRC researchers and I left for the Esalen Institute in 1969. At Esalen my involvement in direct human gut-to-gut communication and lack of involvement in administrative responsibility brought my courage to the sticking place. Meanwhile, Stewart Brand of the Whole Earth Truck Catalog (Menlo Park, Calif.) reviewed the work in the Whole Earth Catalog from a mimeographed copy I had given W.W. Harmon of Stanford for his Sufic purposes. Stewart wrote me asking for copies to sell. I had 300 printed photo-offset from the typed copy. He sold them in a few weeks and asked permission to reprint on newsprint an enlarged version at a lower price. Sceptical about salability, I agreed. Book People, Berkeley, arranged the reprinting. Several thousand copies were sold. I had written the report in such a way that its basic messages were hidden behind a heavy long introduction designed to stop the usual reader. Apparently once word got out, this device no longer stalled the interested readers. Somehow the basic messages were important enough to enough readers so that the work acquired an unexpected viability. Thus it seems appropriate to reprint it in full. On several different occassions, I have been asked to rewrite this work. One such start at rewrite ended up as another book. (The Center of the Cyclone, The Julian Press, Inc., New York, 1972.) Another start is evolving into my book number five (Simulations of God: A Science of Belief). It seems as if this older work is a seminating source for other works and solidly resists revision. To me it is a thing separate from me, a record from a past space, a doorway into new spaces through which I passed and cannot return. J.C.L. February 1972 Los Angeles, California 'All human beings, all persons who reach adulthood in the world today are programmed biocomputers. No one of us can escape our own nature as programmable entities. Literally, each of us may be our programs, nothing more, nothing less.' Chapter 2. SUMMARY OF EXPERIMENTS IN SELF-METAPROGRAMMING WITH LSD-25 In order to test the validity of some of the basic assumptions implicit in the theory of the human computer, a series of experiments were designed and carried out in the LSD-25 state, in physical isolation, and solitude. One point of primary interest during these experiments was to find out what level of intensity of belief in a set of assumptions could be achieved. The assumptions tested in this set of experiments are not those of current science: they are not in the conscious working repertory of this scientist; nor were they consciously acceptable to him. In this short account it is not intended to give all of the details of either the self-metaprogramming language that was used or the details of the elicited phenomena. The account is purposely sparse, condensed, and compressed. Abstracted from the complexity of the totality of the experiments and their results are only those formal descriptions which may serve as guide posts to others attempting to reproduce these or similar experiments. It is not intended to complicate this account with the personal aspects of the metaprogramming, the elicited phenomena, or difficulties encountered. For those researchers who are interested in this work's reproduction in themselves, these assumptions (or similar ones) and these results can be translated into their own metaprogramming language and such workers can obtain their unique results. To claim validity of details beyond myself is not my aim. There probably are those men who are prepared well enough to attempt reproducing what has been done here in themselves. The descriptions are given so that the sources of the human computer theory are available to professionals. This particular set of existence theorems is selected for experiment for a number of reasons. There are a number of persons (Blum, 1964) who experimented with the LSD-25 state who write as if they believe implicitly in the objective reality of causes outside themselves for certain kinds of experiences undergone with these particular beliefs. I do not think it wise to espouse either the existence or the non-existence theorem for this set of basic supra-self-metaprograms (Fig. 1). To become impartial, dispassionate, and general purpose, objective, and open-ended, one must test and adjust the level of credence in each of his sets of beliefs. If ever Man is to be faced with real organisms with greater wisdom, greater intellect, greater minds than any single man has, then we must be open, unbiased, sensitive, general purpose, and dispassionate. Our needs for phantasies must have been analyzed and seen for what they are and are not or we will be in even graver troubles than we are today. Our search for mentally healthy paths to human progress in the innermost realities depends upon progress in this area. Many men have floundered in this area of belief: I hope this work can help to find a way through one of our stickiest intellectual-emotional regions. Most of these beliefs are ones which have been abandoned in the fields of endeavor called science. Such beliefs continue to be found in the field known as religion. Some of these beliefs are labeled in modern psychiatric medicine and anthropology as superstitions, psychotic beliefs, etc. Other persons present these beliefs in the writings called science fiction. This set of basic postulates (or beliefs) is conceived and used to program several sessions with LSD-25 plus physical isolation in solitude. Above all these metaprograms to be experimented upon is one metaprogram of value to this subject: his overall policy is the intent to explore, to observe, to analyze. Hence there is an important additional basic metaprogram: analyze self to understand one's thinking and true motives more thoroughly. This is the conscious motivational strategy. At times this metaprogram dominates the scene, at times others do. The resolve exists, however, to generate a net effect with this instruction uppermost in the computer hierarchy. EXPERIMENTS ON BASIC METAPROGRAMS OF EXISTENCE Preliminary to the experiments in changing basic beliefs, many experiments with the profound physical isolation and solitude situation were carried out over a period of several years. These experiences were followed by combining the LSD-25 state and the physical isolation state in a second period of several years. The minimum time between experiments was thirty days, the maximum time several months. [Tables 1, 7 and 8] Basic Belief No. 1 Basic Belief No. 1 was made possible by the early isolation results: Assume that the subject's body and brain can operate comfortably isolated without him paying any attention to it. This belief expresses the faith that one has in one's experience in the isolation situation, that one can consciously ignore the necessities of breathing and other bodily functions, and that they will take care of themselves automatically without detailed attention on the part of one's self. This result allowed existence metaprograms to be made in relative safety. Succesful leaving of body and parking it in isolation for periods of twenty minutes to two hours were succesful in sixteen different experiments. This success, in turn, allowed other basic beliefs to be experimented upon. The basic belief that one could leave the body and explore new universes was succesfully programmed in the first eight different experiments lasting from five minutes to forty minutes; the later eight experiments were on the cognitional multidimensional space without the leaving the body metaprogram (see previous section on Projection for the cognition space phenomenon). Basic Belief No. 2 The subject sought beings other than himself, not human, in whom he existed and who control him and other human beings. Thus the subject found whole new universes containing great varieties of beings, some greater than himself, some equal to himself, and some lesser than himself. Those greater than himself were a set which was so huge in space-time as to make the subject feel as a mere mote in their sunbeam, a single microflash of energy in their time scale, my forty-five years are but an instant in their lifetime, a single thought in their vast computer, a mere particle in their assemblages of living cognitive units. He felt he was in the absolute unconscious of these beings. He experienced many more sets all so much greater than himself that they were almost inconceivable in their complexity, size and time scales. Those beings which were close to the subject in complexity-size-time were dichotomized into the evil ones and good ones. The evil ones (subject said) were busy with purposes so foreign to his own that he had many near-misses and almost fatal accidents in encounters with them; they were almost totally unaware of his existence and hence almost wiped him out, apparently without knowing it. The subject says that the good ones thought good thoughts to him, through him, and to one another. They were at least conceivably human and humane. He interpreted them as alien yet friendly. They were not so alien as to be completely removed from human beings in regard to their purposes and activities. Some of these beings (the subject reported) are programming us in the long term. They nurture us. They experiment on us. They control the probability of our discovering and exploiting new science. He reports that discoveries such as nuclear energy, LSD-25, RNA-DNA, etc., are under probability control by these beings. Further, humans are tested by some of these beings and cared for by others. Some of them have programs which include our survival and progress. Others have programs which include oppositions to these good programs and include our ultimate demise as a species. Thus the subject interpreted the evil ones as willing to sacrifice us in their experiments; hence they are alien and removed from us. The subject reported with this set of beliefs that only limited choices are still available to us as a species. We are an ant colony in their laboratory. Basic Belief No. 3 The subject assumed the existence of beings in whom humans exist and who directly control humans. This is a tighter control program than the previous one and assumes continuous day and night, second to second, control, as if each human being were a cell in a larger organism. Such beings insist upon activities in each human being totally under the control of the organism of which each human being is a part. In this state there is no free will and no freedom for an individual. This supra-self-metaprogram was entered twice by the subject; each time he had to leave it; for him it was too anxiety-provoking. In the first case he became a part of a vast computer in which he was one element. In the second case he was a thought in a much larger mind: being modified rapidly, flexibly and plastically. All of the above experiments were done looking upward in Fig. 1 from the self-programmer to the supra-self-metaprograms. A converse set of experiments was done in which the self-metaprogrammer looked downward towards the metaprograms, the programs and the lower levels of Fig. 1. Basic Belief No. 4 One set of basic beliefs can be subsumed under the directions seek those beings whom we control and who exist in us. With this program the subject found old models in himself (old programs, old metaprograms, implanted by others, implanted by self, injected by parents, by teachers, etc.) He found that these were disparate and separate autonomous beings in himself. He described them as noisy group. His incorporated parents, his siblings, his own offspring, his teachers, his wife seemed to be a disorganized crowd within him, each running and arguing a program with him and in him. While he watched, battles took place between these models during the experiment. He settled many disparate and nonintegrated points between these beings and gradually incorporated more of them into the self-metaprogram. After many weeks of self-analysis outside the experimental milieu (and some help with his former analyst), it was seen that these beings within the self were also those other beings outside self of the other experiments. The subject described the projected as-if-outside beings to be cognitional carnivores attempting to eat up his self-metaprogram and wrest control from him. As the various levels of metaprograms became straightened out in the subject, he was able to categorize and begin to control the various levels as they were presented during these experiments. As his apparently unconscious needs for credence in these beliefs were attenuated with analytic work, his freedom to move from one set of basic beliefs to another was increased and the anxiety associated with this kind of movement gradually disappeared. A basic overall metaprogram was finally generated: For his own intellectual satisfaction the subject found that he best assume that all of the phenomena that took place existed only in his own brain and in his own mind. Other assumptions about the existence of these beings had become subjects suitable for research rather than subjects for blind (unconscious, conscious) belief for this person. Basic Belief No. 5 Experiments also were done upon movements of self forward and back in space-time. The results showed that when attempting to go forward into the future the subject began to realize his own goals for that future, and imagine wishful thinking solutions to current problems. When he put in the metaprogram for going back into his own childhood, real and phantasy memories were evoked and integrated. When he pushed back through to the in utero situation, he found an early nightmare which was reinvoked and solved. Relying on his scientific knowledge, he pushed the program back through previous generations, prehuman primates, carnivores, fish and protozoa. He experienced a sperm-egg explosion on the way through this past reinvocation of imaginary experience. The last set of experiments (see Use of Projection section) was made possible by the results of the previous set. Progress in controlling the projection metaprogram resulted from the other universes experiments. Finally the subject understood and had become familiar with his need for phantasied other universes. Analytic work allowed him to bypass this need and penetrate into the cognitional multidimensional projection spaces. Experiments in programming in this innermost space showed results quite satisfying to a high degree of credence in the belief that all experiments in the series showed inner happenings without needing the participation of outer causes. The need for the constant use of outer causes was found to be a projected outward metaprogram to avoid taking personal responsibility for portions of the contents of his own mind. His dislike for certain kinds of his own nonsensical programs caused him to project them and thus avoid admitting they were his. In summation, the subjectively apparent results of the experiments were to straighten out a good deal of the "nonsense" in this subject's computer. Through these experiments he was able to examine some warded-off beliefs and defensive structures accumulated throughout his life. The net result was a feeling of greater integration of self and a feeling of positive affect for the current structure of himself, combined with an improved skepticism of the validity of subjective judging of events in self. Some objective testing of these essentially subjective judgments have been initiated through cooperation with other persons. Such objective testing is very difficult; this area needs a great deal of future research work. We need better investigative techniques, combining subjective and behavioral (verbal) techniques. The major feeling that one has after such experiences and experiments is that the fluidity and plasticity of one's computer has certain limits to it, and that those limits have been enlarged somewhat by the experiments. How long such enlargement lasts and to what extent are still not known of course. A certain amount of continued critical skepticism about and in the self-metaprogram (and it its felt changes) is very necessary for a scientist exploring these areas. METAPROGRAMMATIC RESULTS OF BELIEF EXPERIMENTS The metatheoretical consideration of these experiments and the the results are as follows: One supra-metaprogrammatic assumption about these experiments is the formalistic view of the origins of mathematics and of thinking. As was said in the preface, at one extreme of the organization of human thinking is the formal logical basic assumption set of metatheories. These experiments were done with this view in mind and the results were interpreted from this point of view. Obviously this point of view does not test the "objective" validity of the experiences. It merely assumes that, if one plugs the proper beliefs into the metaprogrammatic levels of the computer that, the computer will then construct (from the myriads of elements in memory) those possible experiences that fit this particular set of rules. Those programs will be run off and those displays made, which are appropriate to the basic assumptions and their stored programming. Another way of looking at the results and at the metaprogramming is that we start out with a basic set of beliefs, believe them to be "objectively" valid (not just "formally" valid) and do the experiments and interpret them with this point of view. If one proceeds along these lines, one can quickly reach the end of one's ability to interpret the results. One finds that one cannot grasp conceptually the phenomena that ensue. With this metatheory, this type of experience is not just the computer operating in isolation, confinement and solitude on preprogrammed material being elicited from memory, but is really in communication with other beings, and the influence on one's self by them is real. Thus in this case one is assuming the existence theorem in regard to the basic assumptions, i.e., there is objective validity to them quite outside of self and one's making the assumptions. This epistemological position can also be investigated by these methods. This is somewhat the position that was taken by Aldous Huxley and by various other groups. For example, pursuit of certain non-Western philosophies as the Ultimate Truth was generated by these persons. One cannot take sides on these two widely diverse epistemological bases. On the one hand we have the basic assumptions of the modern scientists and on the other hand the basic assumptions of those interested in the religious aspect of existence. If one is to remain philosophic and objective in this field, one must dispassionately survey both of these extreme metatheoretical positions. One basic lesson learned from these experiments is that, in general, one's preferences for various kinds of metatheoretical positions are dictated by considerations other than one's ideals of impartiality, objectivity, and a dispassionate view. The metatheoretical position held by scientists in general is espoused for purposes of defining the truth, for purposes of understanding in their particular compartment of science, for acceptance among other scientists and for each one's own internal security operations with respect to his own unconscious programs. It is to be expected that anxiety is engendered in some scientists by making the above assumptions as if true (even temporarily) in an experimental framework. One can easily be panicked by the invasion of the self-metaprograms by automatic existence programs from below the level of one's awareness, programs which may strike at the existence of self, at the control of self, at the origins of self, at the destinations of self, and of the relations of self to a known external reality. Possibly one of the safest positions to take with regard to all of these phenomena is that given in this paper, i.e., the formalistic view in which one makes the assumption that the computer itself generates all of the phenomena experienced. This is an acceptable assumption of modern science. This is the so-called common sense assumption. This is the assumption acceptable to one's colleagues in science. Such considerations, of course, do not touch upon nor prove the validity of invalidity of the assumptions nor of the results of the experiments. In order to leave this theory open-ended and to allow for the presence of the unknown, it is necessary to take the ontological and epistemological position that one cannot know as a result of this kind of solitudinous experiment whether or not the phenomena are explicable only by non-biocomputer interventions or only by happenings within the computer itself, or both. I wish to emphasize that there is a necessity not to espouse a truth because it is safe. Being driven to a set of assumptions because one is afraid of another set and their consequences is the most passionate and nonobjective kind of philosophy. Too many intellectuals and scientists (almost unconsciously) use basic assumptions as defences against their fears of other assumptions and their consequences. Until we can train ourselves to be dispassionate and accept both the assumptions and the results of making them without arrogance, without pride, without misplaced enthusiasm, without fear, without panic, whithout anger, hence without emotional involvement in the results or in the theories, we cannot advance this inner science of Man very far. Those who wish to embrace the truth of an alternative set of assumptions as an escape from the basic assumptions of modern science are equally at fault. Those who must find a communication with other beings in this kind of experiment will apparently find it. One must be aware that there are (as in the child) needs within one's self for finding certain kinds of phenomena and espousing them as the ultimate truth. Such childlike needs needs dictate their own metaprograms. I am not agreeing with any extreme group in interpreting these results. It is convenient for me to assume, as of this time, that these phenomena all occurred within the biocomputer. I tend to assume that ESP cannot have played a role. At the moment this is the position which I find to be most tenable in a logical sense. I do not wish to be dogmatic about this. I wish to indicate that this is where I stand as of the writing describing this particular stage of the work. I await demonstrations of the validity of alternative existence theorems. If ever good, hard-nosed, common sense, unequivocal evidence for the existence of currently unaccepted assumptions is presented by those who have thoroughly attenuated their childish needs for particular beliefs, I hope I am prepared to examine it dispassionately and thoroughly. The pitfalls of group interlock are quite as insidious as the pitfalls of one's own phantasizing. Group acceptance of undemonstrated existence theorems and of seductive beliefs adds no more validity to the theorems and to the beliefs than one's own phantasizing can add. Anaclitic group behavior is no better than solitudinous phantasies of the truth. Where agreed-upon truth can exist in the science of the innermost realities is not and cannot yet be settled. Beginnings have been made by many men, satisfying proofs by one. FIGURE 1. SCHEMA OF THE LEVELS OF THE FUNCTIONAL ORGANIZATION OF THE HUMAN BIOCOMPUTER LEVELS XI UNKNOWN (above and in Biocomputer) X SUPRA-SPECIES-METAPROGRAM (beyond metaprogramming) IX SUPRA-SELF-METAPROGRAMS (to be metaprogrammed) VIII *SELF-METAPROGRAM* - awareness (to metaprogram) VII METAPROGRAMS METAPROGRAM STORAGE (to program set of programs) VI PROGRAMS PROGRAM STORAGE (detailed instructions) V SUBROUTINES SUBROUTINE STORAGE (details of instruction) IV BIOCHEMICAL ACTIVITY - NEURAL ACT. - GLIAL ACT. - VASCULAR ACT. (signs of activity) III BIOCHEMICAL BRAIN - NEURAL BRAIN - GLIAL BRAIN - VASCULAR BRAIN (brain) II BIOCHEMICAL BODY - SENSORY BODY - MOTOR BODY - VASCULAR BODY (body) I BIOCHEMICAL - CHEMICAL - PHYSICAL....EXTERNAL REALITY (external reality) Each part of each level has feedback-control relations with each part, indicated by the connecting lines. Each level has feedback-control with each other level. For the sake of schematic simplicity, many of these feedback connections are not shown. One example is an important connection between Levels VI through IX and X; some built-in, survival programs have a representative at the Supra-Self-metaprogram Level as follows: "These programs are necessary for survival; do not attenuate or excite them to extreme values; such extremes lead to non-computed actions, penalties, illness, or death." After construction, such a Metaprogram is transferred by the Self-metaprogram to the Supra-selfmetaprograms and to the Supra-species- metaprograms for future control purposes. The boundaries between the body and the external reality are between Levels I and II; certain energies and materials pass this boundary in special places (heat, light, sound, food, secretions, feces). Boundaries between body and brain are between Levels II and III; special structures pass this boundary (blood vessels, nerve fibers, cerebro-spinal fluid). Levels IV through XI are in the brain circuitry and are the software of the Biocomputer. Levels above Level X are labeled "Unknown" for the following purposes: (1) to maintain the openness of the system, (2) to motivate future scientific research, (3) to emphasize the necessity for unknown factors at all levels, (4) to point out the heuristic nature of this schema, (5) to emphasize unwillingness to subscribe to any dogmatic belief without testable reproducible data, and (6) to encourage creative courageous imaginative investigation of unknwon influences on and in human realities, inner and outer. -- Antti J. Karttunen Long stretch 36 bits! karttu@mits.mdata.fi Nakkikaasua! Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!munnari.oz.au!deakin.OZ.AU!cs.uow.edu.au!cc.uow.edu.au!plumpton From: plumpton@wampyr.cc.uow.edu.au (David Plumpton) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Visitations) Message-ID: <1992Mar23.033341.12116@cc.uow.edu.au> Date: 23 Mar 92 03:33:41 GMT References: <=h9hjhjnoring@netcom.com> <484@grivel.une.oz.au> <19MAR199219013628@erich.triumf.ca> Sender: plumpton@cc.uow.edu.au (david james plumpton) Organization: University Of Wollongong Lines: 24 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5038 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1211 Something I've wondered about that pertains to this thread seems to preclude the existence of UFOs. Consider this: If spacecraft were entering our solar system using any sort of propulsion system we are likely to understand, they should be easily seen by amateur astronomers as they shed their delta-v. On the other hand, E.T.s with technology advanced enough to get in totally undetected (consider the number of people world-wide searching for new comets), they would probably have seen so much of the universe as to be completely uninterested in us. Either way, it doesn't look good for UFOs. I can see some flaws in this argument, but on the whole I find it so compelling that I don't believe in UFOs, even though I once saw one (i.e. unexplained sighting that didn't look like it could possibly be anything normal). Any thoughts on this matter? -- /------------------------------\ /-------------------------------\ I David Plumpton I There is a holy trinity: | I plumpton@wampyr.cc.uow.edu.au I N Tesla, R Feynman and C Sagan | \------------------------------/ \-------------------------------/ Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!apple!netcomsv!mork!rcain From: rcain@netcom.com (Robert Cain) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.drugs,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: PROGRAMMING AND METAPROGRAMMING IN THE HUMAN BIOCOMPUTER Message-ID: Date: 23 Mar 92 06:03:18 GMT References: <1992Mar22.194206.23974@mits.mdata.fi> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 13 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5039 alt.drugs:23883 alt.paranormal:4684 sci.skeptic:22047 Thank you antti. I needed that! Do you or anyone know what Dr. Lilly is doing now, where he might be? His book "Center of the Cyclone" is must reading for anyone doing inner exploration. In it he devotes a chapter or two to the Arica experience and group that he helped form in the late '60s and early '70s. I was on the peripery of that for a while and observed their yage experiments in large groups, some of which I described in earlier posts to alt.drugs. I was afraid of yage then and I can't find it now! -- Bob Cain rcain@netcom.com 408-358-2007 "There are some strings. They're just not attached." Victoria Roberts Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!pasteur!amazon.Berkeley.EDU!c60a-dy From: c60a-dy@amazon.Berkeley.EDU (Mikel Bancroft CG) Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: La, la, la... Message-ID: <1992Mar23.110823.9476@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> Date: 23 Mar 92 11:08:23 GMT References: <1992Mar19.191933.21170@nntp.uoregon.edu> <1992Mar19.192850.3140@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> <911414p.5@ace.acadiau.ca> Sender: nntp@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU (NNTP Poster) Organization: University of California, at Berkeley Lines: 45 Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2430 alt.religion.kibology:1280 alt.sex:59634 alt.alien.visitors:5040 Nntp-Posting-Host: amazon.berkeley.edu In article <911414p.5@ace.acadiau.ca> 911414p@ace.acadiau.ca (PIOTR CEZARY PROSZYNSKI) writes: >In article <1992Mar19.192850.3140@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> pc30@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Po Shan Cheah) writes: > >>In article <1992Mar19.191933.21170@nntp.uoregon.edu> rtaylor@cie.uoregon.edu (Russ Taylor) writes: >>>In article <1992Mar19.184917.6701@cunews.carleton.ca> wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca (Tom Hamill) writes: >>>>In article 92dms@vax.cc.williams.edu (Bat Rastard) writes: >>>>>In article wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca (Tom Hamill) writes... >>>>>>In article david@rosalyn.stat.uga.edu (David Gundlach) writes: >>>>>>>In article dise@nightshade.cs.odu.edu (Daniel Dise) said... >>>>>>>%In article 92dms@vax.cc.williams.edu (Bat Rastard) writes: >>>>>>>%>In article wasylik@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Michael Wasylik) writes... >>>>>>>%>>In article david@rosalyn.stat.uga.edu (David Gundlach) writes: >>>>>>>%>>>In article 92dms@vax.cc.williams.edu (Bat Rastard) said... >>>>>>>%>>>%In article writes... >>>>>>>%>>>%>In article wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca (Tom Hamill) says: >>>>>>>%>>>%>>In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>>>>>%>>>%>>>In article pdevans@daisy.waterloo.edu (Paul D Evans) writes: >>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>In article colby@bu-bio.bu.edu (Chris Colby) writes: >>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>In article entropy@wintermute.WPI.EDU(Lawrence C. Foard) writes: >>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>> >>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>> GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE. >>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>> >>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>They will just mutate to get around it! >>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>> >>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>Evolution is god! >>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>Sanitation is fraud: >>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>Sandinistas ate Maude. >>>>>>>%>>>%>>>Santa Claus baits God. >>>>>>>%>>>%>>>Satan Claws Bates Dog! Film At Eleven! >>>>>>>%>>>%>>Satin draws mates bod. >>>>>>>%>>>%>I sat in Ward's tame knob. >>>>>>>%>>>%I set a weird time bomb. >>>>>>>%>>>I shed a weird tie, Bob... >>>>>>>%>>I shot a wet teen babe. >>>>>>>%>Izod's a wasp trend, Biff. >>>>>>>%I drove off a west end cliff >>>>>>>I rode to arrest a lift. >>>>>>Electrodes tie my wrists. >>>>>Erode the Mai Tai wisps. >>>>Erotic in tiny sips. >>>Exotic Women in slips! >>Eclectic cows without lips. >Electric eels at my heels. Drunken seals slip on peels. Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!bradford.ac.uk!K.Haigh-Hutchinson From: K.Haigh-Hutchinson@bradford.ac.uk (K.HAIGH-HUTCHINSON) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: God of many worlds Message-ID: <1992Mar23.142650.6973@bradford.ac.uk> Date: 23 Mar 92 14:26:50 GMT References: <11136@ecs.soton.ac.uk> Organization: University of Bradford, UK Lines: 16 Originator: s1497@asic Nntp-Posting-Host: asic You say the bible contains the phrase 'God of many worlds'. I am a Christian but I do not see any reason why life could not exist elsewhere in the Galaxy/Universe. I like the idea that the Bible expressly says this but I can not recall coming across it. The only reference I know in the Bible that explicitly contradicts the 'Earth is flat and the centre of the Universe' theory is the reference in Job to the ball of the Earth or Sphere of the Earth (my Bible is at home I'll look it up and post the reference.) Can you post your reference? and the version you are using? If it is really there it would be fantastic. No I do not believe the aliens are visiting us. I can not see any reason why such vast numbers should come. But they could exist. Kathy Haigh Hutchinson University of Bradford Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!bradford.ac.uk!K.Haigh-Hutchinson From: K.Haigh-Hutchinson@bradford.ac.uk (K.HAIGH-HUTCHINSON) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 ! Keywords: Childbirth,Job,Witch Message-ID: <1992Mar23.150106.7087@bradford.ac.uk> Date: 23 Mar 92 15:01:06 GMT References: <1992Mar16.224926.5133@tc.fluke.COM> <29C66295.13101@orion.oac.uci.edu> <1992Mar18.024642.23904@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> Sender: K. Haigh-Hutchinson Organization: University of Bradford, UK Lines: 20 Originator: s1497@asic Nntp-Posting-Host: asic 1) it is a fact of life that childbirth is painful. 2) What we see recorded in Genesis is what Lot did, or rather offered to do, we see no reference to God's approval of such a course of action. 3) Witch does not mean all women. It is not even gender specific. It means a practioner of withcraft and I always assumed it refered to either sex. And with many other women affirming passages in the bible please do not fall into the Male Chauvinist trap of assuming that submission means slavery and that we are a lesser form of life. It is purely a social order thing, like your submission to all authority. The Bible does not preach the subjugation, humiliation and slavery of women. Apparently neither does the Quran. It is men's interpretation of such passages in relation to their cultural views that have made it so. Look again and see what the words really say not what men have told you that they mean. Kathy Haigh-Hutchinson Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!rutgers!uwvax!zomma.cs.wisc.edu!cherkaue From: cherkaue@zomma.cs.wisc.edu (Kevin J. Cherkauer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Visitations) Message-ID: <1992Mar23.180159.27321@spool.cs.wisc.edu> Date: 23 Mar 92 18:01:59 GMT References: <484@grivel.une.oz.au> <19MAR199219013628@erich.triumf.ca> Sender: news@spool.cs.wisc.edu (The News) Organization: University of Wisconsin, Madison -- Computer Sciences Dept. Lines: 50 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5043 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1213 In article morale@sage4b.its.rpi.edu (Enrique Morales) writes: >>Something you all may be neglecting is that the elapsed time of an object >>travelling near the speed of light is (distance)/(~c) only for the >>observer in the planetary frame observing the object going past. For >>an observer in the object (craft), velocity and distance behave in a >>purely Newtonian fashion, ie. continuing acceleration yields increasing >>speed with no limitation, so that several lightyears can be traversed >>in a matter of weeks. The only problem is that after decelerating back >>to the planetary reference frame, the traveller discovers that some >>large number of years have elapsed in that frame. Whether that is a >>problem depends on the traveller's psychological disposition. It's >>just the same as the twin 'paradox'. If you don't mind missing a few >>hundred years of history, it's no big deal. If you are a true relativity fan, then you should not believe the twin paradox exists. Both the traveller and earthbound humans will have experienced identical time passage when the alien decelerates to Earth's frame. The acceleration-deceleration for the trip is entirely symmetric. That is, the alien's acceleration toward earth can be viewed as acceleration of the earth toward the alien, and likewise when the alien decelerates upon arrival. This is, in fact, one of the fundamental tenets of general relativity -- there are no priviledged reference frames -- the system is symmetric. Thus, you can't get there in three minutes "local time" by travelling near the speed of light, according to general relativity. (Of course, relativity may be wrong. Then all bets are off. I'm not arguing about whether you can go faster than light or experience the twin paradox -- I'm just pointing out that *relativity theory* does *not* predict a twin paradox, yet it is relativity theory which people use in defense of this idea. Fallacious reasoning. Other theories are, of course, possible.) The twin paradox emerges when one takes *special* relativity, a theory which holds for *nonaccelerating* reference frames *ONLY*, and mindlessly applies it to accelerating reference frames. This makes no sense at all, but people insist on doing it. Einstein himself fell into this trap and came up with the so-called "twin paradox," but then he later realized his mistake, calling it the greatest mistake of his life, I believe. He then tried to convince people that his theories did *not* predict a twin paradox, but people being the way they are were already much too enamoured with the science-fictiony way-cool idea of the twin paradox, so they wouldn't listen. It is amazing indeed to open up a physics textbook and watch the author blindly apply special relativity to noninertial frames and, voila, derive the twin paradox. Such "proofs" are nothing but meaningless algebraic doodlings, akin to using division by zero to prove that some relation holds. -- Kevin Cherkauer cherkaue@cs.wisc.edu Disclaimer: The above opinions are solely the responsibility of my owners. Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!watserv1!watdragon!watyew!jdnicoll From: jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Visitations) Message-ID: <1992Mar23.183954.14298@watdragon.waterloo.edu> Date: 23 Mar 92 18:39:54 GMT References: <=h9hjhjnoring@netcom.com> <484@grivel.une.oz.au> <19MAR199219013628@erich.triumf.ca> <1992Mar20.182200.19700@news.iastate.edu> Sender: news@watdragon.waterloo.edu (USENET News System) Organization: University of Waterloo Lines: 42 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5044 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1214 In article <1992Mar20.182200.19700@news.iastate.edu> bible@iastate.edu (Anthony E Bible) writes: > > Pete makes a good point here. It may not be long in your local time, >but, then again, better make sure you don't leave anything behind. > > I'd also like to add a little arithmetic to the discussion, and solicit >criticism of my simple-minded analysis -- *if* solicitation is required. >(Sorry about the units, but it's been a long time since I did Physics and such, >and I do not recall the numbers in mks.) > > c = 186,000 miles/sec = 9.82 * 10^8 feet/sec > g = 32.2 ft/sec^2 > t = c / g = 30.5 * 10^6 seconds = 353 days > > It appears to me that it would take about a year (local time) to get up >to speed (and another year to get down from speed) if you could sustain an >acceleration of one earth-gravity. I guess if you get close enough to the >speed of light the transit time becomes negligible, so it would take about a >couple years, and that does not seem too bad. 'Course you could reduce the >time by increasing the g's, but that takes us back to alternate biology for the >aliens. This is misleading, because newtonian calculations diverge from observations as you approach C. A year will get you to .78 C, where the dilation is something like 0.63. Shorter, but it still takes 4.6 years to get to Alpha Centauri and about 6.4 years to cross the average distance between stars in this neighborhood. Even 1 gee constant acceleration takes 3.5 years to get to AC. > This leads me to wonder what you can burn that will produce 1-g for two >years. Perhaps dilithium crystals ... Even a photon drive needs a high mass ratio to get to .78 C. If you can't forage reaction mass from the interstellar medium, it looks like typical trip speeds are limited to a few tenths of C. Note that if you *do* get up near C, the interstellar medium presents a significant problem, as you plow through it. From the ship POV, it's getting fried by a relativistic beam of particles... James Nicoll Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!fnal.fnal.gov!raph From: raph@fnalc.fnal.gov Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Xeroxing circles in the fields? Message-ID: <1992Mar23.140029.1@fnalc.fnal.gov> Date: 23 Mar 92 20:00:29 GMT Sender: news@ctr.columbia.edu (The Daily Lose) Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Lab Lines: 66 There is a possible mechanism for forming crop circles that I have not seen or heard discussed. Suppose we look at the field as if it were a giant piece of paper in a xerox machine, and the grain stalks are the carbon grains. Xerox machines operate by putting down a static charge, with projected light and shadows causing a gradient between charged and uncharged regions of the paper. Carbon powder is attracted to the highly charged shadowed portions of the paper, causing the light pattern from the original to be transferred to the copy paper. If a sufficient electrostatic charge were passed over the field wiht a long, narrow electrode, circles and squares could be produced in the grain. Perhaps a diffuse, low-gradient charge could be put into the whole field (this might be unnecessary); then a high-gradient charge swept across the field, which would cause the the grain stems to be charged for a few milliseconds (before the charge could dissipate entirely to the air or down the stem). The static charge on the grain stems would pull the plants toward the oppositely-charged earth underneath, gently bending them. (Imagine, if you will, charging a balloon with a burst of ionizing radiation or by touching it to a statically charged rod, and then sticking it to a wall; or consider how your hair stands on end when sitting on a Tesla coil, and then *reversing* the process, to cause the hair to flatten out on the scalp, but in patterns.) This would, of course, require a *large* amount of very high voltage, which might, according to a SWAG, be possible with some of the proposed high-end Star-Wars-type hardware. Thus, some prankster from _wherever_ would use some hapless farmer's field as a sort of giant xerox machine to demonstrate, bother and bewilder the onlookers the next day. It is very possible the high voltages employed in this way would cause some slight physical change in the soil or grain. Perhaps nearby fences or nails and such on the field's surface would become charged magnetically due to the current flow. Anyone look for this? Am I the first to propose this mechanism for producing crop circles? I must confess that I have not read all of the literature available. Cordially, Jim Hawtree Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!bronze!sizemor@silver.ucs.indiana.edu From: sizemor@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Jim Sizemore (alias Gunga Jim)) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Zontar? Message-ID: <1992Mar23.161628.13234@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> Date: 23 Mar 92 21:16:18 GMT References: <92079.163105STDNTFE9@LMUACAD.BITNET> <1992Mar20.134733.9594@news.nd.edu> Distribution: na Organization: Indiana University Lines: 37 In article <1992Mar20.134733.9594@news.nd.edu> John.P.Donnelly.1@nd.edu (Sean Donnelly) writes: >In article <92079.163105STDNTFE9@LMUACAD.BITNET>, STDNTFE9@LMUACAD.BITNET writes: >> >> I hear strange stories that there is a psychic in Europe you claims to able to >> communicate spiritually with an alien being named Zontar? I've read vague repo >> rts also that he communicates with him through a sort of space operator? What >> is this all about? >> >> Bewildered, >> Nora >> >> > >Yes, this person does exist, as I've seen an article on him in the London Times >Sunday supplement. Apparently he goes into a trance and channels the alien, Zontar >Zontar, according to the psychic, has no plans for planetary conquest. In fact, >Zontar claims he's been communicating with Earthlings for centuries. He also >suggests that humans may have descended from his race. > >Any other info on Zontar out there? > > >SeanD You mean, other than it being the name of a B movie ("Zontar: The Thing From Venus") which was a remake of a b-movie called "It Counquered The World"????? I suppose the Head lizard of the reptoids is named "Godzilla"? -- ################################################################# # Gunga Jim # If only that damn buzzing # # (alias Jim Sizemore) # in my head would stop! # # Wanted in 6 states, unwanted # _______________ # # in the other 44. # IU doesn't even know I do this # Path: ns-mx!uunet!centerline!franl From: franl@centerline (Fran Litterio) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Visitations) Message-ID: Date: 23 Mar 92 22:16:28 GMT References: <484@grivel.une.oz.au> <19MAR199219013628@erich.triumf.ca> <1992Mar23.180159.27321@spool.cs.wisc.edu> Sender: news@centerline.com Organization: CenterLine Software, Inc. Lines: 54 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5047 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1216 In-Reply-To: cherkaue@zomma.cs.wisc.edu's message of Mon, 23 Mar 1992 18:01:59 GMT Nntp-Posting-Host: draco In article <1992Mar23.180159.27321@spool.cs.wisc.edu> cherkaue@zomma.cs.wisc.edu (Kevin J. Cherkauer) writes: > In article morale@sage4b.its.rpi.edu (Enrique Morales) writes: > >>Something you all may be neglecting is that the elapsed time of an object > >>travelling near the speed of light is (distance)/(~c) only for the > >>observer in the planetary frame observing the object going past. For > >>an observer in the object (craft), velocity and distance behave in a > >>purely Newtonian fashion, ie. continuing acceleration yields increasing > >>speed with no limitation, so that several lightyears can be traversed > >>in a matter of weeks. The only problem is that after decelerating back > >>to the planetary reference frame, the traveller discovers that some > >>large number of years have elapsed in that frame. Whether that is a > >>problem depends on the traveller's psychological disposition. It's > >>just the same as the twin 'paradox'. If you don't mind missing a few > >>hundred years of history, it's no big deal. > > If you are a true relativity fan, then you should not believe the twin paradox > exists. Both the traveller and earthbound humans will have experienced > identical time passage when the alien decelerates to Earth's frame. The > acceleration-deceleration for the trip is entirely symmetric. Wrong. The traveller who accelerates feels the acceleration and thus knows it is she who is doing the accelerating, not the Earth. > That is, the > alien's acceleration toward earth can be viewed as acceleration of the earth > toward the alien Wrong again. I've never felt the Earth accelerate as the Space Shuttle gains velocity just after liftoff. See above. > Einstein himself fell into this trap and came up with the > so-called "twin paradox," but then he later realized his mistake, calling it > the greatest mistake of his life, I believe. I think he was referring to the Cosmological Constant not the Twin Paradox. > It is amazing indeed to open up a physics textbook and watch the author blindly > apply special relativity to noninertial frames and, voila, derive the twin > paradox. I agree, but it is possible to contrive a though experiment that demonstrates differential aging of twins without resorting to accelerated frames of reference. The travelling twin does not turn around but travels away from the Earth forever. She passes an inound friend, who sets his clock equal to hers at the moment/point where they meet (this is allowed by SR). The inbound friend then shows his clock to the twin on Earth (as he passes her without stopping). At that moment/point the two clocks (representing the two "ages" of the twins) show different elapsed times. -- franl@centerline.com || Fran Litterio uunet!centerline!franl || CenterLine Software R&D 617-498-3255 || 10 Fawcett St, Cambridge, MA, USA 02138-1110 Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!tulane!ukma!nsisrv!usenet From: bur@ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov (Mike Bur) Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: La, la, la... Message-ID: <1992Mar23.202157.10163@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> Date: 23 Mar 92 20:21:57 GMT References: <1992Mar16.061600.13768@athena.cs.uga.edu> <1992Mar16.090405.27432@casbah.acns.nwu.edu> <16MAR199213451607@vax.cc.williams.edu> Sender: usenet@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov (Usenet) Organization: Biospheric Sciences Branch/code 923 Lines: 29 Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2435 alt.religion.kibology:1284 alt.sex:59701 alt.alien.visitors:5048 Nntp-Posting-Host: ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov In article <16MAR199213451607@vax.cc.williams.edu> 92dms@vax.cc.williams.edu (Bat Rastard) writes: >In article <1992Mar16.090405.27432@casbah.acns.nwu.edu>, wasylik@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Michael Wasylik) writes... >>In article <1992Mar16.061600.13768@athena.cs.uga.edu> david@rosalyn.stat.uga.edu (David Gundlach) writes: >>>And then in <15MAR199222515665@vax.cc.williams.edu>, 92dms@vax.cc.williams.edu (Bat Rastard) said... >>>% In article <92075.161912U37460@uicvm.uic.edu>, writes... >>>% >In article <1992Mar15.075333.9278@cunews.carleton.ca>, wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca >>>% >(Tom Hamill) says: >>>% >>In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>% >>>In article pdevans@daisy.waterloo.edu (Paul D Evans) writes: >>>% >>>>In article colby@bu-bio.bu.edu (Chris Colby) writes: >>>% >>>>> In article entropy@wintermute.WPI.EDU (Lawrence C. Foard) writes: >>>% >>>>> >In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>% >>>>> >>>% >>>>> >> GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE. >>>% >>>>> >>>% >>>>> >They will just mutate to get around it! >>>% >>>>> >>>% >>>>> >Evolution is god! >>>% >>>>> Sanitation is fraud: >>>% >>>>Sandinistas ate Maude. >>>% >>>Santa Claus baits God. >>>% >>>Satan Claws Bates Dog! Film At Eleven! >>>% >>Satin draws mates bod. >>>% >I sat in Ward's tame knob. >>>% I set a weird time bomb. >>>I shed a weird tie, Bob... >>I shot a wet teen babe. >Izod's a wasp trend, Biff. Satin and Santa jumped off a cliff. Path: ns-mx!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!ukma!nsisrv!usenet From: bur@ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov (Mike Bur) Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: La, la, la... Message-ID: <1992Mar23.172052.6683@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> Date: 23 Mar 92 17:20:52 GMT References: <1992Mar16.061600.13768@athena.cs.uga.edu> <1992Mar16.090405.27432@casbah.acns.nwu.edu> <16MAR199213451607@vax.cc.williams.edu> Sender: usenet@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov (Usenet) Organization: Biospheric Sciences Branch/code 923 Lines: 29 Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2437 alt.religion.kibology:1286 alt.sex:59709 alt.alien.visitors:5049 Nntp-Posting-Host: ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov In article <16MAR199213451607@vax.cc.williams.edu> 92dms@vax.cc.williams.edu (Bat Rastard) writes: >In article <1992Mar16.090405.27432@casbah.acns.nwu.edu>, wasylik@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Michael Wasylik) writes... >>In article <1992Mar16.061600.13768@athena.cs.uga.edu> david@rosalyn.stat.uga.edu (David Gundlach) writes: >>>And then in <15MAR199222515665@vax.cc.williams.edu>, 92dms@vax.cc.williams.edu (Bat Rastard) said... >>>% In article <92075.161912U37460@uicvm.uic.edu>, writes... >>>% >In article <1992Mar15.075333.9278@cunews.carleton.ca>, wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca >>>% >(Tom Hamill) says: >>>% >>In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>% >>>In article pdevans@daisy.waterloo.edu (Paul D Evans) writes: >>>% >>>>In article colby@bu-bio.bu.edu (Chris Colby) writes: >>>% >>>>> In article entropy@wintermute.WPI.EDU (Lawrence C. Foard) writes: >>>% >>>>> >In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>% >>>>> >>>% >>>>> >> GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE. >>>% >>>>> >>>% >>>>> >They will just mutate to get around it! >>>% >>>>> >>>% >>>>> >Evolution is god! >>>% >>>>> Sanitation is fraud: >>>% >>>>Sandinistas ate Maude. >>>% >>>Santa Claus baits God. >>>% >>>Satan Claws Bates Dog! Film At Eleven! >>>% >>Satin draws mates bod. >>>% >I sat in Ward's tame knob. >>>% I set a weird time bomb. >>>I shed a weird tie, Bob... >>I shot a wet teen babe. >Izod's a wasp trend, Biff. Satin and Santa jumped off a cliff. Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!access.usask.ca!regina!hercules.cs.uregina.ca!bayko From: bayko@hercules.cs.uregina.ca (john bayko) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: terraforming Message-ID: <1992Mar23.204620.22669@regina.cs.uregina.ca> Date: 23 Mar 92 20:46:20 GMT References: <1992Mar18.195012.23464@pellns.alleg.edu> <1992Mar22.053715.11567@eskimo.celestial.com> Sender: usenet@regina.cs.uregina.ca (Usenet Admin) Reply-To: bayko@hercules.uregina.ca (john bayko) Organization: University of Regina, Regina, Saskatchewan Lines: 28 Nntp-Posting-Host: hercules.cs.uregina.ca In article <1992Mar22.053715.11567@eskimo.celestial.com> delisle@eskimo.celestial.com (Ben Delisle) writes: > > One possible way that although uses a lot of energy, Its costs are >not as high as others: push astroides in to a orbital vecter that will >take it in a collision path to the target world. the resultant >collision may free gasses into the asmosphere and add mass. > If I remember correctly, about 3 million comets would be required to provide a reasonable atmosphere to Mars. I don't think asteroid collisions would free much atmosphere. > A problem with Mars; for example, is the lack of a strong >magnetic field, which has been theorized to contribute to is shalow >atmosphere -- the solar winds from the Sun are not deflected by the >planet's weak magnetic field, the "wind" then, as it blows by and takes >with it a little bit of atmosphere. > If humans had enough energy to terraform Mars, they'd likely have the energy to either set up a planetary field by wrapping the planet with main power cables, or satellites to shield the planet with smaller magnetic fields distributed over a thin area surrounding the planet. Perhaps the solar wind could even be harnessed to supplement the atmosphere instead of eroding it. John Bayko. Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!nntp.uoregon.edu!news.u.washington.edu!uw-beaver!pullen From: pullen@cs.washington.edu (Walter D. Pullen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: "Do you want to work for our mission?" Summary: An extraterrestrial visitation story Keywords: Alpha Centauri Message-ID: <1992Mar23.234900.23583@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Date: 23 Mar 92 23:49:00 GMT Sender: news@beaver.cs.washington.edu (USENET News System) Organization: University of Washington Computer Science Lines: 344 The following is a (true) short story which took place about 15 years ago in Latin America. I got the excerpt from the book "UFO Contact from the Pleiades", by Wendelle Stevens, pages 186-193. In it, a man has an incredible encounter with a UFO, in which, after he learns of the true mission of the extraterrestrials, is faced with a difficult decision he must make. I post this not only because it is an interesting story, but because it is an accurate portrayal of the anxiety and disbelief that many are familiar with concerning these matters. Actually, there is another reason why I am posting this, which is based on the apparent decision our contactee comes to. Anyway, enjoy the following, which is written as a letter from the contactee to a friend: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "Trinidad (Bolivia), the 2nd of January 1976 -- "Dear Friends: "During my travels over the world, I have now come to Trinidad. My place is at the Marmore river in the Llas de Mojos in Bolivia. I am here three days now, and have already realized many very interesting things. I have typed many pages of my impressions and experiences. But, yesterday, early in the morning, I had an experience which nearly made me "jump out of my boots". I first considered it a hallucination or a tropical frenzy, before I could convince myself of being well. Perhaps you will feel the same when you read these lines. But you know well that I am no dreamer, and thus you simply have to believe me, though this will surely be difficult for you. It is all so crazy that even today I search for mistakes in my brains and even consider the possibility of dreaming. But, nevertheless all happened exactly as I write this to you, still clear in my impressions of yesterday's events, which simply was unbelievable even for me. I cannot express it otherwise. Do not consider me crazy or ill, for I am neither the one nor the other. I am as normal as you, and as well not addicted to fantasies, as you well know. But now let me tell you my experience of yesterday." "It was just 5 o'clock in the morning when I rolled out of my bed and began to prepare for going this day to the far environs of Trinidad. About 10 minutes after getting up, I observed something in the morning sky which I simply could not believe. I had already read and heard about flying saucers, but never gave them much thought or consideration, and never believed them to be real. I always thought such assertions were jokes. But now, very calmly and without noise, such a flying object passed over Trinidad, descended more and more, and finally disappeared somewhere behind the trees of the forest. I believed myself dreaming and rubbed my eyes, as this simply could not be true, what I had just seen. From my standing position the object looked like two laid together, semi-rounded great discs, just like a discus looks." "At first I sat down for a while and deliberated. Perhaps I should return to civilization and have myself examined by a medic. But then I decided that I had better examine the occurrence more thoroughly before I should decide on that step. I took my compass then and determined the direction where I had seen the object going down. Then I packed a bundle and marched out, always checking the direction by the compass. This was nearly east. With much trouble and sweat I penetrated the environment and made it through the rankly growing backwood, on and always on. It seemed I would never get there, and I already wanted to give up and return. I was three or more hours on the way and still had found nothing, and so I must have suffered a hallucination. From my calculations I should have come upon the object by now if it really had landed. I was breathing heavily and soaked with sweat and wanted to go back. In spite of that, I did not turn around, for something forced me irresistibly forwards. It seemed I was being drawn forward without a will to resist. I was attracted, like by a magnet, which I simply could not resist. This might have continued for another half an hour. I finally decided I was crazy, because I suddenly realized something very big and metallic glittering through the bushes. At first I was paralyzed in unbelief, then got control of myself and struggled through the last of the barriers. Once more I considered this a dream, because in a clearing was floating, only about one meter above the ground, a great discus of metal, certainly 14 or 15 meters in diameter. There was no noise, or else the tones were inaudible, and yet this discus floated free above the ground simply in the air. Like I was tied up, I stood there, only about 20 meters away from the object and stared unbelieving. I could not think any more. I also could not walk. I am used to a lot in all my travels, and not easily disturbed, but this, I realized, just paralyzed me. This simply could not be true, because it just could not exist." "I don't know how long I stood there, unmoving. I only know something suddenly touched my arm, and that I then turned, like in a dream, and what I saw paralyzed me still more, because beside me were standing two men in diver's suits! I still remember wondering about that, and asked myself why these two would run in the middle of the jungle in diver's dresses. Then I realized many differences. These dresses were very evidently much lighter in weight than any diver's suits known to me, and the silvery color was not like any diver's suits I knew of. The two blonde men wore no helmets or other environmental headgear, but had on their suits strange looking instruments of different size and form. Still paralyzed, I could not speak a word, though the men, who evidently belonged to the flying saucer, did not look malicious and even laughed in a friendly way. Then one of them spoke, but I could not understand a single word. Then the second one tried but to no better result. I did not understand a word. Their language seemed totally strange to me, but of a melodic and sympathetic sound that in any event calmed me and seemed to loosen my paralysis." "Both men were about the same size, the size of myself, about 1.74 meters. They took me by the arms and guided me to their spacecraft, which I allowed without resistance. About 5 meters from the spacecraft they had set up some peculiar things, among which were some strange stools or chairs, on which we sat down. I still could not speak. Smiling in a friendly way now, one of them spoke to me, but again I could not understand anything. His speaking had the effect of releasing the paralysis and the stiffness was now gone. I became very calm, and now suddenly I could speak too. In Spanish I inquired in astonishment about this incomprehensible occurrence, yet now, evidently, I was not understood. So I tried English with the same result, as well by my German language of home. We simply could not talk to each other. Then once more one of the men spoke to me in his melodic soft voice while he reached to his waist and switched on a device handing there. It was no bigger than a cigarette box. While speaking suddenly his language changed, and just as suddenly I heard Spanish words, then French, and then German. I don't know why but I was joyfully excited about this, which the man must have noticed because the German language remained on, and now I realized the men talking to me in my native language. I still remember very clearly what they first said, "...now we can talk together by means of our language translator. Be greeted and do not fear. We are here in peace and will depart in peace again." These were the first words I could understand, and I will surely never forget them or the sounding of their words. It so impressed me that I memorized all very deeply, believe me." "And now that we could talk with one another, I was asked if I could understand and remember well when they, these men, explained different things to me. I answered affirmatively, explaining that I would write it all down in shorthand at once, if this were allowed, because I was accustomed to this. One answered that this would be very good, but what was short-hand writing. I wondered about the question but answered him, for which he thanked me. I got out my shorthand block and pencil and began to take down a true account of all that was said among us. Therefore I can give you a true account, word by word, of our conversation. You will be astonished and unbelieving as I was myself, but let me give it to you all in order as I have written it down:" "I am Kahun", one of the men said. "I am called Athar", was the pronouncement of the other. "My name is Horst Fenner", I explained to them. "You live here in the wild land?" Athar asked. "No, I am only a tourist here, as I am from Germany." "What is a tourist?" Athar asked me. "A visitor", was my answer. "Then Athar and I are tourists", said Kahun "How shall I understand this?" was my question. "We are not from this world, which you call Earth," answered Kahun. "How shall I understand this now?" I asked in astonishment. "We are from the stars," answered Kahun, "We are not creatures from this world". "You want to make a joke with me don't you?" I asked, as I really believed they were joking. "No, we come from the stars you call Proxima Centauri", was the answer of Kahun. "That is the next solar system to this one, a distance of a rounded 50 billion kilometers according to your distance measurement." "This can't be, but that's utopical", I meant. (It is easier when I just put the names of the speakers before each quote, so I will write it this way.) Kahun: We do not joke. Horst: Then you must be star-men. Kahun: So we are, if you want to call us that. Horst: I cannot believe this. Athar: We do not speak untruth. Horst: Shall I really believe this of you? Kahun: It is the truth. Horst: This is unbelievable; what are you doing here? Kahun: We often come to this Earth. We observe the events here and consider the development of the human beings. Unfortunately they are very much behind in their religious development because of political intrigues. The humans of Earth could cause very much mischief by their wrong development and struggles for power which may even result in other more distant star systems becoming involved. Because of this we come to Earth and observe and to prevent, if necessary, worse things from developing. Horst: This sounds quite unbelievable. Athar: We speak the truth. Horst: If you really speak the truth, what will you be able to do if something really goes wrong? Kahun: Have no hesitation, we are not alone. Besides our Centaurians are still different other space-races on this Earth. Some of these originate from much greater distances than we. Horst: This all sounds utopian to me. What do you intend to do against the development of Earth? You cannot yet change all by power. This would lead to a war. And wherefrom are the other starmen? Kahun: I have explained to you that we ae telling the truth. It is not utopical. As well we don't want to take any measure against the Earth. For this we have no justification, especially not by power, which is interdicted for us. So you need not expect and fear a war from our side. We have many friends on Earth with whom we have contact, and who operate under our advices and orders in a peaceful manner for the benefit of all Earth human beings. They spread the knowledge of our existence and word about our mission. You name these, your fellow creatures, contactees. They work in our order and are attacked with enmity because of that. One accuses them of lying and deceit, against which they, unfortunately, cannot defend themselves. It is also unfortunate that among these good contactee elements are others who lie and deceive and make jokes, by which our mission is not helped. The more important contactees are often exposed to greater enmites and even have their lives threatened. There is a man who was educated as a prophet of the presence, whose mission is most important, because he must bring anew the real lessons of truth toward Earth-human beings. This is the lesson which you call the lesson of Spirit. These lessons were transmitted to him from very high spheres of spirit, in connection with space-races coming from the starsigns Lyria, the Pleiades and the DAL-Universe. Besides these there are staying on Earth still different other cosmic races who come here regularly. Important missions are performed by these space-races who belong to the Pleiadian star group, because they are the distant descendents of the forefathers of the Earth human beings, for which reason this great mission belongs to their field of operation. These cosmic races maintain three different stations on the Earth. They are under the leadership of one called Quetzal, whose deputy is a woman about 350 earth years old called Semjase. She is a daughter of the leader of the Pleiadian spacefleet. An Earth contactee of the Pleiadian group is a man about 40 years old who lives in Switzerland, and is known as Billy." Kahun (contd): Different space-races are visiting the Earth as well as Earth's neighbor planets, Venus and Mars, where there are only a few in small surface stations because these planets are uncolonizable and hostile. This is also true of other planetary bodies in this solar system where the Earth alone is habitable and sustaining life of a material spiritual kind, as is known to you. This is a matter of fact which your science may soon witness, in spite of contrary affirmations. Horst: This is unbelievable. Is this really all true? Athar: We speak the truth. Horst: I simply cannot believe it. This sounds like a utopical horror. Kahun: Nevertheless our information is correct. Horst: I will have to believe it whether I want to or not. Your flying saucer is evidence enough for me that you must be right. Athar: We call our flight machine a beamship. Horst: May I know something of its drive? Kahun: We are not allowed to give information about such matters. Horst: I regret. Athar: It would be a great help for us if you could assist us. Horst: Readily, what shall I do? Athar: We want to entrust you with a mission in connection with our existence. Horst: Should I perhaps write something about you? Kahun: This would serve our mission. Horst: I am not crazy. No human being wold take this story for true from me, and I would be considered crazy. Kahun: As you wish. Then our troubles were in vain. We must leave now. Horst: Wait, it wasn't meant like that. Perhaps I could try where I would remain anonymous. Athar: How shall we understand this? Horst: Just so, that I do not tell my name. Kahun: That will not suit the purpose. Horst: What shall I do then? Kahun: You would have to go public as a contact person. Horst: I cannot. I am not crazy. Athar: Then our conversation is finished. Horst: I regret this very much but you must understand me. Kahun: If this is your last decision, then we have finished our conversation. Horst: So be if it must, but I simply can't do otherwise. Can you answer me a question? Kahun: If it does not concern our flight means and instruments, then yes. Horst: Before you spoke of people who call themselves contactees, but are not... can you tell me something about these. Athar: Why are you interested in that if you want to remain silent? Horst: It is only a question. On the other hand you have convinced me that you really have come from the stars. I would like to learn more, but I cannot go out publicly, as you suggest. On one hand no one would believe me, and on the other, I am not suited for this. Kahun: You may be right. Yet, as well, it is your right to know the truth... (Here some names were mentioned). Horst: Dear, are there so many? Athar: There are still more of them, but they are rather few in comparison to the true contactees. Don't you perhaps, want to work for our mission? Horst: It is enticing, but I really cannot. Maybe at a later time. I must discuss this with someone else first, thoroughly, who knows the whole matter and who is best informed. Can you tell me someone? Kahun: Go to the most important man of all, but you cannot assume your task later. You must decide this now. Either you know already what is your duty and what you are able to do, or we must renounce our aid. We must be very severe here. Horst: So I must deny it, for I cannot make a decision now, I regret. I will deliberate on this all and perhaps try, at least, to publish this experience with you. Athar: This would delight us and will be useful too. But now, you really must go, because we still have to perform other labors. We regret that we have guided you here in vain. Go along in peace and do not fear. "So far I could write the conversation according to its words, and in the end, all no longer appeared so fantastic to me. After more friendly words we said goodbye, and I walked the hours back to Trinidad, where I arrived shortly before night. All night I lay and considered this, and I thought of having acted quite stupid, as I could perhaps have experienced still more from Kahun and Athar by a sham-agreement. My only thought was that I would be taken for crazy, if I would indeed publish something about this. Now I really do not know what I should think of it all, and whether I could have dreamed it. Please talk about it with my father and pastor and ask them for their opinion, which please let me know soon. Do also ask the pastor whether or not one should spread such talk. If he thinks this should be done, then please do it. I but ask that neither my address or yours is revealed, because I do not want to be troubled upon my return... I await an answer by you with your opinion. In one month I may be in La Paz where you can reach me at the usual address." Best wishes until then, and kind greetings to all. Your Globetrotting Friend, s/Horst ------------------------- FURTHER COMMENTS ------------------------- Six years after Horst Fenner's letter to his friend, "Astronomy" magazine for January 1982 published a feature article by Paul Patton entitled, "The Three Suns of Centaurus," in which he points out the possibility, even the probability of one of those suns, Alpha Centauri A, having atmospheric planets even similar to our Earth. Alpha Centauri A has been catalogued in spectral class G2 V, the same as our Sun, and has a mass 1.08 and luminosity 1.3 times that of our own luminary. Alpha Centauri's surface temperature is only 230K hotter, 6000K vs. 5770K; and its diameter a little larger, having comparative radii of 7.3x10^10 cm vs. 6.9x10^10 cm for our central body. It is about the same age in time and is calculated to have an eco-system capable of supporting planets just like ours which may be a little wider and a little farther out. Although they have not been seen, there is no fundamental reason why atmospheric planets just like ours, with life similar to us, could not survive and even flourish there. If we allow any credence at all for this contact in southern Bolivia or the contacts going on in Switzerland and the statements by those visitors that human life has a common ancestry in space, we may have to accept possibility that some humans are already traveling the cosmos and may even be coming here. This also challenges both the Creational and the Evolutionary theories of our own origin which have come into dispute lately. -- -|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|- | Walter D. "Cruiser1" Pullen | pullen@lynx.cs.washington.edu | -|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|- | "Who am I, What am I? As I am, I am not. But as we are, I AM. And to | - you my creation, My Perfect Love is your Perfect Freedom. And I will be - | with you forever and ever, until the End, and then forever more." - GOD | -|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|- Path: ns-mx!uunet!psinntp!visix!visix!ed From: ed@visix.com (Ed Devinney) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Zontar? Message-ID: <1992Mar23.214722.16810@visix.com> Date: 23 Mar 92 21:47:22 GMT References: <92079.163105STDNTFE9@LMUACAD.BITNET> <1992Mar20.134733.9594@news.nd.edu> Sender: news@visix.com Reply-To: ed@visix.com Distribution: na Organization: Visix Software Inc., Reston, VA Lines: 21 In article <1992Mar20.134733.9594@news.nd.edu>, John.P.Donnelly.1@nd.edu (Sean Donnelly) writes: >Yes, this person does exist, as I've seen an article on him in the London Times >Sunday supplement. Apparently he goes into a trance and channels the alien, Zontar >Zontar, according to the psychic, has no plans for planetary conquest. In fact, >Zontar claims he's been communicating with Earthlings for centuries. He also >suggests that humans may have descended from his race. > >Any other info on Zontar out there? A documentary film was made in the '50s. Go to your local video shop and rent 'Zontar, the Thing From Venus'. (I'm not making up the title.) But do it now before the NSA takes them all off the shelves... -- ed devinney ed@visix.com software guy Visix Software Inc., Reston, VA, USA "I wish I could drive the Tractor of Innocence, and return to the life I never knew" - King Missile Path: ns-mx!uunet!van-bc!ubc-cs!unixg.ubc.ca!reg.triumf.ca!vincent From: vincent@reg.triumf.ca (pete) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Visitations) Message-ID: <24MAR199202530534@reg.triumf.ca> Date: 24 Mar 92 10:53:00 GMT References: <484@grivel.une.oz.au> <19MAR199219013628@erich.triumf.ca> <1992Mar23.180159.27321@spool.cs.wisc.edu> Sender: news@unixg.ubc.ca (Usenet News Maintenance) Organization: dept. of theophysics & cosmogyny Lines: 49 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5053 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1218 News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Nntp-Posting-Host: reg.triumf.ca In article <1992Mar23.180159.27321@spool.cs.wisc.edu>, cherkaue@zomma.cs.wisc.edu (Kevin J. Cherkauer) writes... >In article morale@sage4b.its.rpi.edu (Enrique Morales) writes: >>>Something you all may be neglecting is that the elapsed time of an object >>>travelling near the speed of light is (distance)/(~c) only for the >>>observer in the planetary frame observing the object going past. For >>>an observer in the object (craft), velocity and distance behave in a >>>purely Newtonian fashion, ie. continuing acceleration yields increasing >>>speed with no limitation, so that several lightyears can be traversed >>>in a matter of weeks. The only problem is that after decelerating back >>>to the planetary reference frame, the traveller discovers that some >>>large number of years have elapsed in that frame. Whether that is a >>>problem depends on the traveller's psychological disposition. It's >>>just the same as the twin 'paradox'. If you don't mind missing a few >>>hundred years of history, it's no big deal. > >If you are a true relativity fan, then you should not believe the twin paradox >exists. Both the traveller and earthbound humans will have experienced >identical time passage when the alien decelerates to Earth's frame. The >acceleration-deceleration for the trip is entirely symmetric. That is, the >alien's acceleration toward earth can be viewed as acceleration of the earth >toward the alien, and likewise when the alien decelerates upon arrival. This >... >The twin paradox emerges when one takes *special* relativity, a theory which >holds for *nonaccelerating* reference frames *ONLY*, and mindlessly applies it >to accelerating reference frames. This makes no sense at all, but people insist >on doing it. Einstein himself fell into this trap and came up with the >so-called "twin paradox," but then he later realized his mistake, calling it >the greatest mistake of his life, I believe. He then tried to convince people >that his theories did *not* predict a twin paradox, but people being the way >they are were already much too enamoured with the science-fictiony way-cool >idea of the twin paradox, so they wouldn't listen. > >It is amazing indeed to open up a physics textbook and watch the author blindly >apply special relativity to noninertial frames and, voila, derive the twin >paradox. Such "proofs" are nothing but meaningless algebraic doodlings, akin to >using division by zero to prove that some relation holds. > >-- >Kevin Cherkauer > First of all, I made the above quoted remarks, not Enrique. And second, your responses are uniformly incorrect on all counts. Knowing this group, I'll just get out of the way and let the regular relativity posters deal with the specifics of your errors. =========================================================================== A cynic's world is comprised Pete Vincent of fools and other cynics Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!cunews!wcstom From: wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca (Tom Hamill) Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: La, la, la... Message-ID: <1992Mar24.132850.28109@cunews.carleton.ca> Date: 24 Mar 92 13:28:50 GMT References: <1992Mar19.192850.3140@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> <911414p.5@ace.acadiau.ca> <1992Mar23.110823.9476@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> Sender: tom hamill Followup-To: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors Organization: Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada Lines: 56 Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2446 alt.religion.kibology:1291 alt.sex:59777 alt.alien.visitors:5054 In article c60a-dy@amazon.Berkeley.EDU (Mikel Bancroft CG) writes: >In article 911414p@ace.acadiau.ca (PIOTR CEZARY PROSZYNSKI) writes: >>In article pc30@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Po Shan Cheah) writes: >>>In article artaylor@cie.uoregon.edu (Russ Taylor) writes: >>>>In article wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca (Tom Hamill) writes: >>>>>In article 92dms@vax.cc.williams.edu (Bat Rastard) writes: >>>>>>In article wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca (Tom Hamill) writes... >>>>>>>In article david@rosalyn.stat.uga.edu (David Gundlach) writes: >>>>>>>>In article dise@nightshade.cs.odu.edu (Daniel Dise) said... >>>>>>>>%In article 92dms@vax.cc.williams.edu (Bat Rastard) writes: >>>>>>>>%>In article wasylik@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Michael Wasylik) writes... >>>>>>>>%>>In article david@rosalyn.stat.uga.edu (David Gundlach) writes: >>>>>>>>%>>>In article 92dms@vax.cc.williams.edu (Bat Rastard) said... >>>>>>>>%>>>%In article writes... >>>>>>>>%>>>%>In article wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca (Tom Hamill) says: >>>>>>>>%>>>%>>In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>In article pdevans@daisy.waterloo.edu (Paul D Evans) writes: >>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>In article colby@bu-bio.bu.edu (Chris Colby) writes: >>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>In article entropy@wintermute.WPI.EDU(Lawrence C. Foard) >>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>> >>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>> GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE. >>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>> >>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>They will just mutate to get around it! >>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>> >>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>Evolution is god! >>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>Sanitation is fraud: >>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>Sandinistas ate Maude. >>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>Santa Claus baits God. >>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>Satan Claws Bates Dog! Film At Eleven! >>>>>>>>%>>>%>>Satin draws mates bod. >>>>>>>>%>>>%>I sat in Ward's tame knob. >>>>>>>>%>>>%I set a weird time bomb. >>>>>>>>%>>>I shed a weird tie, Bob... >>>>>>>>%>>I shot a wet teen babe. >>>>>>>>%>Izod's a wasp trend, Biff. >>>>>>>>%I drove off a west end cliff >>>>>>>>I rode to arrest a lift. >>>>>>>Electrodes tie my wrists. >>>>>>Erode the Mai Tai wisps. >>>>>Erotic in tiny sips. >>>>Exotic Women in slips! >>>Eclectic cows without lips. >>Electric eels at my heels. >Drunken seals slip on peels. Strumpet's deals on slippery meals. ---tom l~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~l l CRUSH---CompassionRespectUnderstandingSelfHonesty---CRUSH l l How could you have ever lived your life without it? l l Join Now, Apply Within. Spread the word. l l_________________________ ---me, trying to save the world, l l wcstom@ccs.carleton.ca l from itself. l ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!fnal.fnal.gov!raph From: raph@fnalna.fnal.gov Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Abducted while driving? Message-ID: <1992Mar24.074909.1@fnalna.fnal.gov> Date: 24 Mar 92 13:49:09 GMT References: <1992Mar19.215003.4656@bsu-ucs.uucp> Sender: news@ctr.columbia.edu (The Daily Lose) Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Lab Lines: 53 In article <1992Mar19.215003.4656@bsu-ucs.uucp>, 00njhavert@bsu-ucs.uucp writes: > > Tell me what you think... > > I was driving home from my girlfriend's house on a country > back-road late one night, probably two or three o'clock in the m > morning. > Anyway, when you're driving down this back road, you > have to stop at this somewhat major intersection that has a > four-way stop. The road you cross is a somewhat busy road, and > you just can't miss it because it's very well lit due to there being > several accidents in that area, because people drive like maniacs. > So, I'm on my way home and the song "You Make Me So Very > Happy" comes on the radio as I go over the top of one of many hills > along this old road. > So I'm drivin'. And drivin'. And drivin'. And I'm thinking, > where the hell is this four-way stop. It should be here soon, shouldn't > it? > Suddenly, I come over the next hill and I beside this old grave- > yard where I always turn off to go to my house. Only, this graveyard is > at least five miles away from this four-way stop. Also, the song that > had just come on the radio was suddenly over. > My girlfriend thinks I slept through the four-way stop, but > I really don't think so. It's too far of a distance to sleep through. > > Any thoughts? This happened about three years ago. > Nik > Over the past four years I have run into several people who have had abduction experiences. I had been sure previously that such experiences were not genuine (e.g. due to misobservation, neurotic desire for attention, psychotic episode, petite mal episode, etc.). I no longer can dismiss these experiences so easily, especially since a good friend of mine confided that she had several of them; I was present subsequently at two of them. First off though, it is normal to have memory lapses during periods of tiredness, and boredom while doing repetitive tasks, like driving down long, dark familiar roads. This happens, and is no big deal. What is *not* normal, is to 1) see something extremely peculiar (e.g. a glowing UFO by the road, or other anomaly); 2) extended surrealistic episodes, such as having the brake, gas pedal and steering wheel stop responding to you, and the car continue at a very slow speed for many minutes or even miles; 3) extreme disorientation or shock afterwards which is apparent to others; 4) nightmares and dreams and perhaps sleeping disorders afterwards; 5) extreme reluctance or embarrassment or emotional turmoil in recalling, relating or dealing with the incident. These indicate a traumatic incident. Did any of these happen to you, other than the memory lapse? Cordially, Jim Hawtree Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!news.cs.indiana.edu!lynx!zia.aoc.nrao.edu!juphoff From: juphoff@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Jeff Uphoff) Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: La, la, la... Message-ID: <1992Mar24.154730.22657@zia.aoc.nrao.edu> Date: 24 Mar 92 15:47:30 GMT References: <911414p.5@ace.acadiau.ca> <1992Mar23.110823.9476@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> <1992Mar24.132850.28109@cunews.carleton.ca> Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory, Socorro NM Lines: 54 Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2450 alt.religion.kibology:1297 alt.sex:59784 alt.alien.visitors:5056 In article <1992Mar24.132850.28109@cunews.carleton.ca> wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca (Tom Hamill) writes: >In article c60a-dy@amazon.Berkeley.EDU (Mikel Bancroft CG) writes: >>In article 911414p@ace.acadiau.ca (PIOTR CEZARY PROSZYNSKI) writes: >>>In article pc30@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Po Shan Cheah) writes: >>>>In article artaylor@cie.uoregon.edu (Russ Taylor) writes: >>>>>In article wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca (Tom Hamill) writes: >>>>>>In article 92dms@vax.cc.williams.edu (Bat Rastard) writes: >>>>>>>In article wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca (Tom Hamill) writes... >>>>>>>>In article david@rosalyn.stat.uga.edu (David Gundlach) writes: >>>>>>>>>In article dise@nightshade.cs.odu.edu (Daniel Dise) said... >>>>>>>>>%In article 92dms@vax.cc.williams.edu (Bat Rastard) writes: >>>>>>>>>%>In article wasylik@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Michael Wasylik) writes... >>>>>>>>>%>>In article david@rosalyn.stat.uga.edu (David Gundlach) writes: >>>>>>>>>%>>>In article 92dms@vax.cc.williams.edu (Bat Rastard) said... >>>>>>>>>%>>>%In article writes... >>>>>>>>>%>>>%>In article wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca (Tom Hamill) says: >>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>In article pdevans@daisy.waterloo.edu (Paul D Evans) writes: >>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>In article colby@bu-bio.bu.edu (Chris Colby) writes: >>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>In article entropy@wintermute.WPI.EDU(Lawrence C. Foard) >>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>> >>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>> GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE. >>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>> >>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>They will just mutate to get around it! >>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>> >>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>Evolution is god! >>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>Sanitation is fraud: >>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>Sandinistas ate Maude. >>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>Santa Claus baits God. >>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>Satan Claws Bates Dog! Film At Eleven! >>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>Satin draws mates bod. >>>>>>>>>%>>>%>I sat in Ward's tame knob. >>>>>>>>>%>>>%I set a weird time bomb. >>>>>>>>>%>>>I shed a weird tie, Bob... >>>>>>>>>%>>I shot a wet teen babe. >>>>>>>>>%>Izod's a wasp trend, Biff. >>>>>>>>>%I drove off a west end cliff >>>>>>>>>I rode to arrest a lift. >>>>>>>>Electrodes tie my wrists. >>>>>>>Erode the Mai Tai wisps. >>>>>>Erotic in tiny sips. >>>>>Exotic Women in slips! >>>>Eclectic cows without lips. >>>Electric eels at my heels. >>Drunken seals slip on peels. >Strumpet's deals on slippery meals. Redesigning the wheel with zeal. -- Jeff Uphoff -- "Uppie" | The post office raises the price of stamps, | becomes a paying sponsor of the olympics, juphoff@astro.phys.vt.edu | then purcahses ad time on tv to brag about it. juphoff@zia.aoc.nrao.edu | Is this a great country or what? Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!bible From: bible@iastate.edu (Anthony E Bible) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Visitations) Message-ID: <1992Mar24.163921.23802@news.iastate.edu> Date: 24 Mar 92 16:39:21 GMT References: <19MAR199219013628@erich.triumf.ca> <1992Mar20.182200.19700@news.iastate.edu> <1992Mar23.183954.14298@watdragon.waterloo.edu> Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA Lines: 45 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5057 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1219 In article <1992Mar23.183954.14298@watdragon.waterloo.edu> jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) writes: >In article <1992Mar20.182200.19700@news.iastate.edu> bible@iastate.edu (Anthony E Bible) writes: [stuff deleted] >> It appears to me that it would take about a year (local time) to get up >>to speed (and another year to get down from speed) if you could sustain an >>acceleration of one earth-gravity. I guess if you get close enough to the >>speed of light the transit time becomes negligible, so it would take about a >>couple years, and that does not seem too bad. 'Course you could reduce the >>time by increasing the g's, but that takes us back to alternate biology for the >>aliens. > > This is misleading, because newtonian calculations diverge from >observations as you approach C. A year will get you to .78 C, where the >dilation is something like 0.63. Shorter, but it still takes 4.6 years to get >to Alpha Centauri and about 6.4 years to cross the average distance between >stars in this neighborhood. > > Even 1 gee constant acceleration takes 3.5 years to get to AC. > Hmmmm. Are these times cast in spaceship reference or the reference of an external observer? I guess I'd like to know how you arrived at them. My (admittedly poor) understanding of near-light speed is that the space-ship time would run so slowly compared to external time that the enroute elapsed time would appear negligible to the travelers. That would leave only the time to get up to and down from light-speed. [other stuff deleted] > > Note that if you *do* get up near C, the interstellar medium presents >a significant problem, as you plow through it. From the ship POV, it's >getting fried by a relativistic beam of particles... > > James Nicoll Interesting. I hadn't thought of that. Seems like a potential source of usuable energy. Regards, tony Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!dsinc!pitt.edu!unix.cis.pitt.edu!seawasp From: seawasp+@pitt.edu (Ryk E Spoor) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Visitations) Message-ID: <203847@unix.cis.pitt.edu> Date: 24 Mar 92 16:44:15 GMT References: <19MAR199219013628@erich.triumf.ca> <1992Mar23.033341.12116@cc.uow.edu.au> Sender: news@unix.cis.pitt.edu Organization: University of Pittsburgh Lines: 47 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5058 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1220 In article <1992Mar23.033341.12116@cc.uow.edu.au> plumpton@wampyr.cc.uow.edu.au (David Plumpton) writes: >If spacecraft were entering our solar system using any sort of propulsion >system we are likely to understand, they should be easily seen by amateur >astronomers as they shed their delta-v. Suppose it depends on exactly HOW they shed their delta-v. Sure, if they decelerate by solar sail they'd stand out like James Earl Jones at a KKK rally, but what if they decelerate by, oh, ion rocket or something else that doesn't radiate in the visible? A lot less attention is paid by all the amateurs to the nonvisible. Also, if they were smart about it and knew our tech level, they could make sure that they simply decelerated from a counter-earth direction. Then we couldn't detect them very easily at all. If you mean that they'd be detected as object that changed course, like moving asteroids, I won't buy it. Not unless you think they're all going to be the size of the Death Star. >On the other hand, E.T.s with technology advanced enough to get in totally >undetected (consider the number of people world-wide searching for new >comets), they would probably have seen so much of the universe as to be >completely uninterested in us. Then why do we study ants? Seriously, that argument is not really supportable. The more WE learn, the less we know. The Earth has a complex ecology and a dominant lifeform learning to manipulate quite complex technology. Our social structure alone would be worthwhile to study for quite a few very advanced peoples. WE would LOVE to be able to find a large, independent, isolated society of truly primitive people to study. SO, if humans show a lot of traits in common with the aliens, they'd study us to see if they can get more insights on themselves, as well as to evaluate us as a race. If we were very different, they'd want to study us to learn more about the diversity of races. Sea Wasp --------------------------------------------------------------------------- . .. . . * . . . . : . _*_ . . . .. . . . . @---====OOOOO====---@~/^\ . . . . . * . .. ^*^ . . ;;; . . . * : . . . . . .* . . . --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Interphase Accomplished. Sea Wasp docked, Outring Sector 5. Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!rice!hsdndev!spdcc!dirtydog.ima.isc.com!ispd-newsserver!laidbak!tellab5!jcj From: jcj@tellabs.com (jcj) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re^2: Abducted while driving? Message-ID: <1992Mar24.185936.18431@tellab5.tellabs.com> Date: 24 Mar 92 18:59:36 GMT References: <1992Mar19.215003.4656@bsu-ucs.uucp> <1992Mar24.074909.1@fnalna.fnal.gov> Sender: news@tellab5.tellabs.com (News) Organization: Wazmodyne Industries Lines: 16 Nntp-Posting-Host: sungb In article <1992Mar24.074909.1@fnalna.fnal.gov> raph@fnalna.fnal.gov writes: >> So I'm drivin'. And drivin'. And drivin'. And I'm thinking... >> Any thoughts? This happened about three years ago. >> Nik >> >Over the past four years I have run into several people who have had >... I no longer can dismiss these experiences so easily, especially >since a good friend of mine confided that she had several of them; I was >present subsequently at two of them. > > Cordially, Jim Hawtree I see from your signature that you're at Fermi Lab. Care to elaborate on where these incidents took place? Were these anywhere near FNAL? -- jcj@tellabs.com Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!apple!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Abducted while driving? Message-ID: <4g=j0p+sheaffer@netcom.com> Date: 24 Mar 92 22:45:28 GMT References: <1992Mar19.215003.4656@bsu-ucs.uucp> <1992Mar24.074909.1@fnalna.fnal.gov> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 40 In article <1992Mar24.074909.1@fnalna.fnal.gov> raph@fnalna.fnal.gov writes: >> >Over the past four years I have run into several people who have had >abduction experiences. I had been sure previously that such experiences were >not genuine > >What is *not* normal, is to 1) see something extremely peculiar (e.g. a >glowing UFO by the road, or other anomaly); 2) extended surrealistic >episodes, such as having the brake, gas pedal and steering wheel stop >responding to you, and the car continue at a very slow speed for many minutes >or even miles; 3) extreme disorientation or shock afterwards which is >apparent to others; 4) nightmares and dreams and perhaps sleeping disorders >afterwards; 5) extreme reluctance or embarrassment or emotional turmoil in >recalling, relating or dealing with the incident. These indicate a traumatic >incident. > >Did any of these happen to you, other than the memory lapse? > This is what is called "leading the witness." The subject begins remembering very, very hard, and by golly, just maybe, Number 3 (or Number 5 or whatever) *DID* happen to me!! NOW I can remember it! And here, right before our eyes, another "confirmation" of UFO abductions is being conjured up into existence, whether it happened or not. The *proper* way to proceed in such a situation is to get the subject to tell you all he can, WITHOUT suggesting to him in any way the kind of responses you are expecting. Because this is difficult, it probably seldom, if ever, happens. And now you know why so many "UFO abductees" tell similar stories. -- Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! "The facts can only take you so far in this case.", - Oliver Stone, discussing "JFK" on CBS-TV's "48 Hours", Feb. 5, 1992 Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!news.ysu.edu!ysub!cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu!34ml2ob From: 34ML2OB@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: BigBrother/BigSister Survey Message-ID: <92084.14312034ML2OB@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> Date: 24 Mar 92 19:31:20 GMT Organization: Central Michigan University Lines: 15 We are conducting a survey to see if there is an interest in creating a newgroup for/about Big Brothers/Big Sisters. The main idea for the group would be to share ideas (neat things to do with your little) and problems that that you might have (with littles or problems with Finding littles). We are looking into setting up such a group in one of two forms, a) a national netnews group and b) a Subscription list in which all posts are e-mailed right to you. We would like to know if there is an interest in such a group and if so what form (E-mail list or Netnews group) you would like best. And any comments and/or suggestions that you might have for such a project. Please E-mail responses to 34ml2ob@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU Thank-you! Dr. Roger Van Horn, Professor of Psychology, Central Michigan University Susan Peterson, Psychology Teaching Assitant Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!van-bc!ubc-cs!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!utgpu!csd.unb.ca!morgan.ucs.mun.ca!nstn.ns.ca!pony.acadiau.ca!ace.acadiau.ca!911414p From: 911414p@ace.acadiau.ca (PIOTR CEZARY PROSZYNSKI) Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: La, la, la... Message-ID: <911414p.8@ace.acadiau.ca> Date: 24 Mar 92 22:04:41 GMT References: <911414p.5@ace.acadiau.ca> <1992Mar23.110823.9476@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> <1992Mar24.132850.28109@cunews.carleton.ca> <1992Mar24.154730.22657@zia.aoc.nrao.edu> Sender: news@pony.acadiau.ca (USENet News) Organization: Acadia University Lines: 51 Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2453 alt.religion.kibology:1300 alt.sex:59805 alt.alien.visitors:5062 Nntp-Posting-Host: 131.162.30.14 In article <1992Mar24.154730.22657@zia.aoc.nrao.edu> juphoff@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Jeff Uphoff) writes: >In article <1992Mar24.132850.28109@cunews.carleton.ca> wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca (Tom Hamill) writes: >>In article c60a-dy@amazon.Berkeley.EDU (Mikel Bancroft CG) writes: >>>In article 911414p@ace.acadiau.ca (PIOTR CEZARY PROSZYNSKI) writes: >>>>In article pc30@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Po Shan Cheah) writes: >>>>>In article artaylor@cie.uoregon.edu (Russ Taylor) writes: >>>>>>In article wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca (Tom Hamill) writes: >>>>>>>In article 92dms@vax.cc.williams.edu (Bat Rastard) writes: >>>>>>>>In article wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca (Tom Hamill) writes... >>>>>>>>>In article david@rosalyn.stat.uga.edu (David Gundlach) writes: >>>>>>>>>>In article dise@nightshade.cs.odu.edu (Daniel Dise) said... >>>>>>>>>>%In article 92dms@vax.cc.williams.edu (Bat Rastard) writes: >>>>>>>>>>%>In article wasylik@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Michael Wasylik) writes... >>>>>>>>>>%>>In article david@rosalyn.stat.uga.edu (David Gundlach) writes: >>>>>>>>>>%>>>In article 92dms@vax.cc.williams.edu (Bat Rastard) said... >>>>>>>>>>%>>>%In article writes... >>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>In article wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca (Tom Hamill) says: >>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>In article pdevans@daisy.waterloo.edu (Paul D Evans) writes: >>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>In article colby@bu-bio.bu.edu (Chris Colby) writes: >>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>In article entropy@wintermute.WPI.EDU(Lawrence C. Foard) >>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>> GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE. >>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>They will just mutate to get around it! >>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>Evolution is god! >>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>Sanitation is fraud: >>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>Sandinistas ate Maude. >>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>Santa Claus baits God. >>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>Satan Claws Bates Dog! Film At Eleven! >>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>Satin draws mates bod. >>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>I sat in Ward's tame knob. >>>>>>>>>>%>>>%I set a weird time bomb. >>>>>>>>>>%>>>I shed a weird tie, Bob... >>>>>>>>>>%>>I shot a wet teen babe. >>>>>>>>>>%>Izod's a wasp trend, Biff. >>>>>>>>>>%I drove off a west end cliff >>>>>>>>>>I rode to arrest a lift. >>>>>>>>>Electrodes tie my wrists. >>>>>>>>Erode the Mai Tai wisps. >>>>>>>Erotic in tiny sips. >>>>>>Exotic Women in slips! >>>>>Eclectic cows without lips. >>>>Electric eels at my heels. >>>Drunken seals slip on peels. >>Strumpet's deals on slippery meals. >Redesigning the wheel with zeal. Redirect - please - this rhyme; 'tis time! Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!press2 From: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: La, la, la... Message-ID: <1992Mar25.003157.6117@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> Date: 25 Mar 92 00:31:57 GMT References: <16MAR199213451607@vax.cc.williams.edu> <1992Mar17.194614.26095@cunews.carleton.ca> Followup-To: blahblahblah Organization: AT&T Lines: 35 Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2457 alt.religion.kibology:1303 alt.sex:59815 alt.alien.visitors:5063 In article <1992Mar17.194614.26095@cunews.carleton.ca>, wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca (Tom Hamill) writes: > In article david@rosalyn.stat.uga.edu (David Gundlach) writes: > >And then in dise@nightshade.cs.odu.edu (Daniel Dise) said... > >% In article 92dms@vax.cc.williams.edu (Bat Rastard) writes: > >% >In article wasylik@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Michael Wasylik) writes... > >% >>In article david@rosalyn.stat.uga.edu (David Gundlach) writes: > >% >>>And then in 92dms@vax.cc.williams.edu (Bat Rastard) said... > >% >>>% In article writes... > >% >>>% >In article wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca (Tom Hamill) says: > >% >>>% >>In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: > >% >>>% >>>In article pdevans@daisy.waterloo.edu (Paul D Evans) writes: > >% >>>% >>>>In article colby@bu-bio.bu.edu (Chris Colby) writes: > >% >>>% >>>>> In article entropy@wintermute.WPI.EDU (Lawrence C. Foard) writes: > >% >>>% >>>>> >In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: > >% >>>% >>>>> > >% >>>% >>>>> >> GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE. > >% >>>% >>>>> > >% >>>% >>>>> >They will just mutate to get around it! > >% >>>% >>>>> > >% >>>% >>>>> >Evolution is god! > >% >>>% >>>>> Sanitation is fraud: > >% >>>% >>>>Sandinistas ate Maude. > >% >>>% >>>Santa Claus baits God. > >% >>>% >>>Satan Claws Bates Dog! Film At Eleven! > >% >>>% >>Satin draws mates bod. > >% >>>% >I sat in Ward's tame knob. > >% >>>% I set a weird time bomb. > >% >>>I shed a weird tie, Bob... > >% >>I shot a wet teen babe. > >% >Izod's a wasp trend, Biff. > >% I drove off a west end cliff > >I rode to arrest a lift. > Electrodes tie my wrists. It whiffed a snowy sniff > Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!uwm.edu!linac!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!press2 From: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: ? Majestic Twelve ? Message-ID: <1992Mar25.003802.6329@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> Date: 25 Mar 92 00:38:02 GMT References: <1992Mar13.043523.18992@spdcc.com> <11140@ecs.soton.ac.uk> Organization: AT&T Lines: 17 In article <11140@ecs.soton.ac.uk>, co90@ecs.soton.ac.uk (Oakley C) writes: > In <1992Mar16.001111.942@cabot.balltown.cma.COM> connolly@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (C. Ian Connolly) writes: > > >In article <1992Mar14.043415.16579@cbnewsd.att.com> press2@cbnewsd.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes: > >>You must mean the MJ twelve. these guys are actual descendants of the > >>star people from the planet Marij-juana from the horsehead galaxy. > > >No, no - you're thinking of the "Hosehead Nebula" > > No. I think you mean HORSEhead (unless the Hosehead Nebula looks like some gardening implement)_ They are so damn secretive, it's hard to establish exactly Where they are from originally. They want you to Believe it is only a Nebula! Hosehead- Horsehead is really a side track. Can't sign my name now - God I hate being on the run Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!press2 From: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: La, la, la... Message-ID: <1992Mar25.005922.6834@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> Date: 25 Mar 92 00:59:22 GMT References: <16MAR199213451607@vax.cc.williams.edu> <17MAR199217225741@vax.cc.williams.edu> Followup-To: blahblahblah Organization: AT&T Lines: 36 Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2458 alt.religion.kibology:1304 alt.sex:59826 alt.alien.visitors:5065 In article <17MAR199217225741@vax.cc.williams.edu>, 92dms@vax.cc.williams.edu (Bat Rastard) writes: > In article <1992Mar17.194614.26095@cunews.carleton.ca>, wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca (Tom Hamill) writes... > >In article david@rosalyn.stat.uga.edu (David Gundlach) writes: > >>And then in dise@nightshade.cs.odu.edu (Daniel Dise) said... > >>% In article 92dms@vax.cc.williams.edu (Bat Rastard) writes: > >>% >In article wasylik@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Michael Wasylik) writes... > >>% >>In article david@rosalyn.stat.uga.edu (David Gundlach) writes: > >>% >>>And then in 92dms@vax.cc.williams.edu (Bat Rastard) said... > >>% >>>% In article writes... > >>% >>>% >In article wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca (Tom Hamill) says: > >>% >>>% >>In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: > >>% >>>% >>>In article pdevans@daisy.waterloo.edu (Paul D Evans) writes: > >>% >>>% >>>>In article colby@bu-bio.bu.edu (Chris Colby) writes: > >>% >>>% >>>>> In article entropy@wintermute.WPI.EDU (Lawrence C. Foard) writes: > >>% >>>% >>>>> >In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: > >>% >>>% >>>>> > >>% >>>% >>>>> >> GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE. > >>% >>>% >>>>> > >>% >>>% >>>>> >They will just mutate to get around it! > >>% >>>% >>>>> > >>% >>>% >>>>> >Evolution is god! > >>% >>>% >>>>> Sanitation is fraud: > >>% >>>% >>>>Sandinistas ate Maude. > >>% >>>% >>>Santa Claus baits God. > >>% >>>% >>>Satan Claws Bates Dog! Film At Eleven! > >>% >>>% >>Satin draws mates bod. > >>% >>>% >I sat in Ward's tame knob. > >>% >>>% I set a weird time bomb. > >>% >>>I shed a weird tie, Bob... > >>% >>I shot a wet teen babe. > >>% >Izod's a wasp trend, Biff. > >>% I drove off a west end cliff > >>I rode to arrest a lift. > >Electrodes tie my wrists. > Erode the Mai Tai wisps. Enough of chattled lisps Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!press2 From: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.scientology,alt.sex Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again... Message-ID: <1992Mar25.011959.7320@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> Date: 25 Mar 92 01:19:59 GMT References: <1992Mar17.194614.26095@cunews.carleton.ca> Followup-To: blahblahblah Organization: AT&T Lines: 44 Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2459 alt.alien.visitors:5066 alt.religion.scientology:1896 alt.sex:59833 In article , kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: > In article <64035@apple.Apple.COM> nsj@Apple.COM (Neal Johnson) writes: > >In article <17MAR199217225741@vax.cc.williams.edu> 92dms@vax.cc.williams.edu (Bat Rastard) writes: > >>In article <1992Mar17.194614.26095@cunews.carleton.ca>, wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca (Tom Hamill) writes... > >>>In article david@rosalyn.stat.uga.edu (David Gundlach) writes: > >>>>And then in dise@nightshade.cs.odu.edu (Daniel Dise) said... > >>>>% In article 92dms@vax.cc.williams.edu (Bat Rastard) writes: > >>>>% >In article wasylik@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Michael Wasylik) writes... > >>>>% >>In article david@rosalyn.stat.uga.edu (David Gundlach) writes: > >>>>% >>>And then in 92dms@vax.cc.williams.edu (Bat Rastard) said... > >>>>% >>>% In article writes... > >>>>% >>>% >In article wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca (Tom Hamill) says: > >>>>% >>>% >>In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: > >>>>% >>>% >>>In article pdevans@daisy.waterloo.edu (Paul D Evans) writes: > >>>>% >>>% >>>>In article colby@bu-bio.bu.edu (Chris Colby) writes: > >>>>% >>>% >>>>> In article entropy@wintermute.WPI.EDU (Lawrence C. Foard) writes: > >>>>% >>>% >>>>> >In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: > >>>>% >>>% >>>>> > >>>>% >>>% >>>>> >> GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE. > >>>>% >>>% >>>>> > >>>>% >>>% >>>>> >They will just mutate to get around it! > >>>>% >>>% >>>>> > >>>>% >>>% >>>>> >Evolution is god! > >>>>% >>>% >>>>> Sanitation is fraud: > >>>>% >>>% >>>>Sandinistas ate Maude. > >>>>% >>>% >>>Santa Claus baits God. > >>>>% >>>% >>>Satan Claws Bates Dog! Film At Eleven! > >>>>% >>>% >>Satin draws mates bod. > >>>>% >>>% >I sat in Ward's tame knob. > >>>>% >>>% I set a weird time bomb. > >>>>% >>>I shed a weird tie, Bob... > >>>>% >>I shot a wet teen babe. > >>>>% >Izod's a wasp trend, Biff. > >>>>% I drove off a west end cliff > >>>>I rode to arrest a lift. > >>>Electrodes tie my wrists. > >>Erode the Mai Tai wisps. > >He rode the May Day WASPS. > She ate the Payday wrapper. She fell in the Fenway crapper > > > GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH. I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD STOP IT. > YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*. Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!att!cbnewsd!press2 From: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.scientology,alt.sex Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again... Message-ID: <1992Mar25.012450.7508@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> Date: 25 Mar 92 01:24:50 GMT References: <17MAR199217225741@vax.cc.williams.edu> <64035@apple.Apple.COM> <1992Mar20.031338.3813@nntp.uoregon.edu> Followup-To: blahblahblah Organization: AT&T Lines: 25 Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2460 alt.alien.visitors:5067 alt.religion.scientology:1897 alt.sex:59834 In article <1992Mar20.031338.3813@nntp.uoregon.edu>, rtaylor@cie.uoregon.edu (Russ Taylor) writes: > In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: > [Intervening drivel removed] > >>He rode the May Day WASPS. > >She ate the Payday wrapper. > > > > > >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH. I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD STOP IT. > >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*. > > > > > > > Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but only after you > added your ten cents? A thousand-degree flame on you! > > (homey don't play dat!) > > btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth? while snoopy ate a sandwich > And why is this a waste of it? because he made a paste of it > > Russ "gremlins" Taylor he never was a sailor > rtaylor@cie.uoregon.edu Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!press2 From: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: BigBrother/BigSister Survey Message-ID: <1992Mar25.021130.9006@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> Date: 25 Mar 92 02:11:30 GMT References: <92084.14312034ML2OB@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> Organization: AT&T Lines: 24 In article <92084.14312034ML2OB@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>, <34ML2OB@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> writes: > We are conducting a survey to see if there is an interest in > creating a newgroup for/about Big Brothers/Big Sisters. The main > idea for the group would be to share ideas (neat things to do with > your little) and problems that that you might have (with littles or > problems with Finding littles). We are looking into setting up such > a group in one of two forms, a) a national netnews group and b) a > Subscription list in which all posts are e-mailed right to you. > We would like to know if there is an interest in such a group > and if so what form (E-mail list or Netnews group) you would like > best. And any comments and/or suggestions that you might have for > such a project. Please E-mail responses to 34ml2ob@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU > > Thank-you! > Dr. Roger Van Horn, Professor of Psychology, Central Michigan University > Susan Peterson, Psychology Teaching Assitant Notice how they mispell "assistant" > Don't do it! It's a cryptic message from the Greys! Note the key words, "neat things to do with your little", Ha, how obvious! Another, "with littles or problems with finding littles"! Sure, start a network like this and in no time they will be able to track down all our littles(children)for the kettles! Path: ns-mx!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!unixhub!stanford.edu!hubcap!mbcamps From: mbcamps@hubcap.clemson.edu (Matt Campbell) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.drugs,alt.psychoactives Subject: Re: A Message from Psilocybin Message-ID: <1992Mar24.195819.17616@hubcap.clemson.edu> Date: 24 Mar 92 19:58:19 GMT References: <56036@cup.portal.com> <1992Mar19.151727.25155@zip.eecs.umich.edu> Organization: Clemson University Lines: 4 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5069 alt.drugs:24001 alt.psychoactives:786 Ten grams of mushrooms sounds pretty good...but ten grams of pure Psilocybin?!?!!? HAIRY INDEED!!! Matt Path: ns-mx!uunet!munnari.oz.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!griffin!kraken!sctether From: sctether@kraken.itc.gu.edu.au (Jason Etheridge) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFOs Message-ID: Date: 25 Mar 92 05:33:25 GMT References: <11136@ecs.soton.ac.uk> Sender: news@griffin.itc.gu.edu.au Organization: ITC, Griffith University, Brisbane, Australia Lines: 24 Nntp-Posting-Host: kraken.itc.gu.edu.au co90@ecs.soton.ac.uk (Oakley C) writes: >In analogki@qed.cts.com (Jeff Robertson) writes: >> >>Now, I know the Bible mentions only Earth as being blessed with life, but it >>never once EXCLUDED the existance of life elsewhere...so, I'm not too quick >>to discount anyone's UFO experience based on this. >Well, just as a matter of interest, there are 4 words in the Bible relating to extra-terrestrial life or lack of >and these 4 words (pretty difficult to find 4 words in something that has over 65,000) are..... >God of many worlds >Hope that this refutes what the guy says and anyway, I don't recall that the bible says that we are the only >planet blessed with life either. If it does then I apologise for my ignorance. May I just inquire as to what possible difference it makes what the bible says? If you discount the possibility of alien life merely because a particular ancient (and much altered) text does not contain any reference to it, well, is eems just a tad naive. What the bible says really should not be of any consideration in this matter (and arguably in any other). Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!ux.acs.umn.edu!csd1227 From: csd1227@ux.acs.umn.edu (Greg Larson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: UFOs to be discussed on Larry King Message-ID: <1992Mar25.083257.28303@ux.acs.umn.edu> Date: 25 Mar 92 08:32:57 GMT Organization: University of Minnesota Lines: 3 The posts here have been kind of odd lately, but in case somebody is interested, at least one of the topics on The Larry King Show will be about UFOs. It is supposed to air Wednesday evening. Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!news.bbn.com!noc.near.net!mars.caps.maine.edu!bates!mperron From: mperron@mother.bates.edu (Mike Perron) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFOs to be discussed on Larry King Keywords: sightings,ufo Message-ID: <1992Mar25.104541.11840@mother.bates.edu> Date: 25 Mar 92 10:45:41 GMT References: <1992Mar25.083257.28303@ux.acs.umn.edu> Organization: Bates College, Lewiston, ME Lines: 23 A great show indeed the author of the book is David Jacobs PHD from Temple. The book is ten years worth of research and interviews with abductees. The name of the book is Secret Life. If anyone has read please let us know what you think of it. While on this topic, it brings to mind a sighting I had which I hope someone can give an explanation for. It was 1:30am on top of a local hilltop when looking intensely up at the clear sky I noticed single lighted or star like objects at high altitude moving at a steady speed. Much like a jet looks from the ground. The problem is that from my view a span of about 5 miles, the sky was full of these (objects). I estimated more than 1000 to 2000 points of light. I didn't hear much of anything but was amazed. I left quickly to tel- ephone a friend to have him check from his home but when I reached a phone they were no longer visible. I questioned manuvers of some kind, but the high count seemed unlikely. Anyone having an explanation or similiar experience I would appreciate hearing from you. Unfortunately I was not abducted. Mike P. mperron(at)mother.bates.edu Path: ns-mx!uunet!meaddata!dougr From: dougr@meaddata.com (Doug Ritter) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: So You Think You're a Clone, Eh? Keywords: Sorry, it was too good to pass up! Message-ID: <1992Mar25.170717.20355@meaddata.com> Date: 25 Mar 92 17:07:17 GMT Sender: Doug (President of the Al Yankovic Fan Club) Ritter Organization: Clones-Be-Us Lines: 51 "I Think I'm a Clone Now" words by W.A. Yankovic Sung to the tune of "I Think We're Alone Now" Isn't it strange? Feels like I'm lookin' in a mirror. What would people say? If only they knew that I was part of some genetisist's plan? Born to be a carbon copy man. There in a petri dish late one night, they took a donor's body cell and fertilized a human egg. So I say I think I'm a clone now. There's always two of me just hangin' around. I think I'm a clone now, cause every chromosome is a hand-me-down. Look at the way we go out walkin' close together. I guess you could say, I'm really beside myself. I still remember how it began, they produced a carbon copy man. Born in a science lab late one night without a mother or a father. Just a test tube and a womb with a view. I think I'm a clone now. I can stay at home when I'm out of town. I think I'm a clone now. Cause every pair of genes is a hand-me-down. Signing autographs for my fans come and meet the carbon copy man. Living in stereo, it's alright. Well I can be my own best friend And I can send myself for pizza. I think I'm a clone now. I've been on Opra Winfrey, I'm world reknown. I think I'm a clone now. That's my genetic twin just hangin' around. Path: ns-mx!uunet!infonode!case From: case@infonode.ingr.com (Bill Case) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: "Do you want to work for our mission?" Summary: Hollywood writers on coke Keywords: Alpha Centauri Message-ID: <1992Mar25.174253.14169@infonode.ingr.com> Date: 25 Mar 92 17:42:53 GMT References: <1992Mar23.234900.23583@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL. Lines: 82 In article <1992Mar23.234900.23583@beaver.cs.washington.edu>, pullen@cs.washington.edu (Walter D. Pullen) writes: > > I did not turn > around, for something forced me irresistibly forwards. It seemed I was > being drawn forward without a will to resist. I was attracted, like by > a magnet, which I simply could not resist...... Does this imply a slow, robot-like walk with staring eyes? Just how close to a celluloid hero role was Horst living out? > I still remember wondering about > that, and asked myself why these two would run in the middle of the > jungle in diver's dresses. That would have been my reaction to guys in diving gear in the jungle! > Then one of them spoke, but I could not understand a single word. Darn the luck. > I still remember very clearly > what they first said, "...now we can talk together by means of our > language translator. > "What is a tourist?" Athar asked me. So they're smart enough for a language translator, but they don't know what tourist means. Sounds suspicious. This isn't a big Reader's Digest ""Word Power"" term. > "We are not from this world, which you call Earth," answered Kahun. Hey, I've heard this line somewhere before. The Bixou, Embassy, or Tri-plex. > "We are from the stars," answered Kahun, "We are not creatures from > this world". Really! Did the diving gear look local? > "No, we come from the stars.. > Horst: Then you must be star-men. No wonder they trusted Horst. The insight! > Kahun: So we are, if you want to call us that. > Horst: I cannot believe this. > Athar: We do not speak untruth. > Horst: Shall I really believe this of you? > Kahun: It is the truth. This is bad saucer etiquette from Horst. I wouldn't call saucer people liars while on board. > Kahun: We often come to this Earth. We observe the events here and > consider the development of the human beings.... : > She is a daughter of the leader of the Pleiadian spacefleet. : > Athar: We call our flight machine a beamship. : > Athar: We want to entrust you with a mission in connection with our > existence. > Horst: Should I perhaps write something about you? > Kahun: This would serve our mission. Ugh, ugh, ugh! I try to be open minded about these things, but this account is so loaded with mid-50's sci-fi movie dialog that I think the chances of aliens actually talking like this is pretty darn slim. It's sorta like translating some new God revelation and having it read like the King James Bible because, hey, that's the way it's suppose to sound, right? This stilted language, "We are not of this world, which you call Earth" is someone's attempt to make these people seem unearthly. They wouldn't dare say "Howdy, Dude Horst. Is this a gas encounter or what?" Of course if the translator doesn't know "tourist", but does know ""utoptical", then "Dude" is probably out. Bill "I come in pieces" Case ...uunet!ingr!b11!casey!case (UUCP) ingr!b11!casey!case@uunet.uu.net (ARPANET) case@ingr.com (Internet) Path: ns-mx!uunet!lll-winken!overload.lbl.gov!dog.ee.lbl.gov!csa2.lbl.gov!sichase From: sichase@csa2.lbl.gov (SCOTT I CHASE) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Visitations) Message-ID: <22251@dog.ee.lbl.gov> Date: 25 Mar 92 19:32:07 GMT References: <19MAR199219013628@erich.triumf.ca> <1992Mar20.182200.19700@news.iastate.edu> <1992Mar23.183954.14298@watdragon.waterloo.edu> <1992Mar24.163921.23802@news.iastate.edu> Reply-To: sichase@csa2.lbl.gov Distribution: na Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA Lines: 25 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5075 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1231 NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.197 News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4 In article <1992Mar24.163921.23802@news.iastate.edu>, bible@iastate.edu (Anthony E Bible) writes... >> Note that if you *do* get up near C, the interstellar medium presents >>a significant problem, as you plow through it. From the ship POV, it's >>getting fried by a relativistic beam of particles... >> >> James Nicoll > > Interesting. I hadn't thought of that. Seems like a potential source >of usuable energy. > Yes, but only for slowing down! The same thing could be said about the Cosmic Background Radiation. It is blue-shifted in front of you, red-shifted behind. Seems like you could use the temperature difference to make an engine, but it will never compensate for the net radiation pressure on the front of your craft. Same thing for the interstellar medium crashing into the front of your ship. On the other hand, the medium is primarily hydrogen, and could be collected as fuel for a proton fusion reactor. This, by releasing energy on a nuclear scale (MeV/proton) would compensate for the loss due to the momentum of the oncoming beam of hydrogen, up to some point anyway, buy not anywhere near the speed of light. -Scott Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!fnal.fnal.gov!raph From: raph@fnalc.fnal.gov Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Visitations) Message-ID: <1992Mar25.170848.1@fnalc.fnal.gov> Date: 25 Mar 92 23:08:48 GMT References: <=h9hjhjnoring@netcom.com> <484@grivel.une.oz.au> <19MAR199219013628@erich.triumf.ca> <1992Mar23.033341.12116@cc.uow.edu.au> Sender: news@ctr.columbia.edu (The Daily Lose) Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Lab Lines: 83 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5076 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1234 In article <1992Mar23.033341.12116@cc.uow.edu.au>, > plumpton@wampyr.cc.uow.edu.au (David Plumpton) writes: > Something I've wondered about that pertains to this thread seems to preclude > the existence of UFOs. Consider this: > > If spacecraft were entering our solar system using any sort of propulsion > system we are likely to understand, they should be easily seen by amateur > astronomers as they shed their delta-v. > > On the other hand, E.T.s with technology advanced enough to get in totally > undetected (consider the number of people world-wide searching for new > comets), they would probably have seen so much of the universe as to be > completely uninterested in us. > > Either way, it doesn't look good for UFOs. I can see some flaws in this > argument, but on the whole I find it so compelling that I don't believe > in UFOs, even though I once saw one (i.e. unexplained sighting that didn't > look like it could possibly be anything normal). > > Any thoughts on this matter? > > -- > /------------------------------\ /-------------------------------\ > I David Plumpton I There is a holy trinity: | > I plumpton@wampyr.cc.uow.edu.au I N Tesla, R Feynman and C Sagan | > \------------------------------/ \-------------------------------/ It is true that we do not know how to accelerate matter faster than c. But, it is not true that *nothing* can travel faster than c. Information can. The EPR paradox (for Einstein, Rosen and Podolsky) from 1935 was an argument that quantum mechanics predicts that it is possible to transfer information faster than c. (BTW, Einstein did not care for the implications: he called it "spooky action at a distance.") Recently experiments have shown that that is indeed the case. Although we do not know how to move matter instantly over distances, we can demonstrate that we can transfer information about spin properties over distances faster than c. There are several articles on the EPR paradox that I have here. All are from reputable physics journals, none are from new-age crackpots. These can be read by anyone with a year or two of college physics, and a reasonable IQ (although they are not exactly easy reading). ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ N. David Mermin, "Is the Moon there when nobody looks? Reality and the Quantum Theory," _Physics Today_, April 1985, 10pp. (Excellent) J. S. Bell, "Bertlmann's socks and the nature of reality," _Journal de Physique_, Colloque C2, supplement au No3, Tome 42, mars 1981, 21pp. (also excellent. Translated to English.) Robert Pool, "Can you Help the Mets by Watching on TV?," _Science_, p.773, 19 May 1989, 2pp. Faye Flam, "Quantum Cryptography's Only Certainty: Secrecy," p. 858, _Science_, Vol. 253. R. Pool, "Quantum Pot Watching," p. 888, _Science_, Vol. 246. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ (The last three are brief articles). In a nutshell, EPR says that when you link two systems (well, particles) and you observe a fquantum effect in one, the other particle, no matter where it is, will have the same effect if you choose to observe it. The original EPR thought experiment was offered as an argument against quantum theory, because the implications were too bizarre. It has. however, been proved to be true, anyway. For instance, an emitter gives off two photons, and spin is measured along one direction, then we know what the same measurement will be for the other photon, no matter how far away it is when and if it is measured. They acannot carry this information with them when they leave the emitter; this is easily proven impossible; it has a spin only when it is measured (odd statement? read about quantum mechanics! I won't argue it, it is true, even though it violates common sense in the macroscopic world). What happens is that information is passed from the meas- ured particle to the unmeasured one instantly, faster than light. Sorry, but it is true; it can be used to pass information to distant points. Get the articles and read them. Or, get a physicist to explain it to you! If codes can be passed this way, perhaps teleoperation could be also done this way (teleoperation is operating something at a distance). But, it is WRONG to assert that NOTHING CAN EXCEED THE SPEED OF LIGHT! Cordially, Jim Hawtree Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!news.nd.edu!mentor.cc.purdue.edu!mace.cc.purdue.edu!lycaon From: lycaon@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Gerald Hough) Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: La, la, la... Message-ID: <42337@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> Date: 26 Mar 92 01:07:27 GMT References: <1992Mar23.110823.9476@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> <1992Mar24.132850.28109@cunews.carleton.ca> <1992Mar24.154730.22657@zia.aoc.nrao.edu> Sender: news@mentor.cc.purdue.edu Followup-To: alt.postmodern Organization: Purdue University Computing Center Lines: 103 Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2476 alt.religion.kibology:1316 alt.sex:59943 alt.alien.visitors:5077 >In article wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca (Tom Hamill) writes: >>In article c60a-dy@amazon.Berkeley.EDU (Mikel Bancroft CG) writes: >>>In article 911414p@ace.acadiau.ca (PIOTR CEZARY PROSZYNSKI) writes: >>>>In article pc30@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Po Shan Cheah) writes: >>>>>In article artaylor@cie.uoregon.edu (Russ Taylor) writes: >>>>>>In article wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca (Tom Hamill) writes: >>>>>>>In article 92dms@vax.cc.williams.edu (Bat Rastard) writes: >>>>>>>>In article wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca (Tom Hamill) writes... >>>>>>>>>In article david@rosalyn.stat.uga.edu (David Gundlach) writes: >>>>>>>>>>In article dise@nightshade.cs.odu.edu (Daniel Dise) said... >>>>>>>>>>%In article 92dms@vax.cc.williams.edu (Bat Rastard) writes: >>>>>>>>>>%>In article wasylik@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Michael Wasylik) writes... >>>>>>>>>>%>>In article david@rosalyn.stat.uga.edu (David Gundlach) writes: >>>>>>>>>>%>>>In article 92dms@vax.cc.williams.edu (Bat Rastard) said... >>>>>>>>>>%>>>%In article writes... >>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>In article wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca (Tom Hamill) says: >>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>In article pdevans@daisy.waterloo.edu (Paul D Evans) writes: >>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>In article colby@bu-bio.bu.edu (Chris Colby) writes: >>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>In article entropy@wintermute.WPI.EDU(Lawrence C. Foard) >>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>> GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE. >>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>They will just mutate to get around it! >>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>Evolution is god! i>>>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>Sanitation is fraud: >>>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>Sandinistas ate Maude. >>>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>Santa Claus baits God. >>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>Satan Claws Bates Dog! Film At Eleven! >>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>Satin draws mates bod. >>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>I sat in Ward's tame knob. >>>>>>>>>>%>>>%I set a weird time bomb. >>>>>>>>>>%>>>I shed a weird tie, Bob... >>>>>>>>>>%>>I shot a wet teen babe. >>>>>>>>>>%>Izod's a wasp trend, Biff. >>>>>>>>>>%I drove off a west end cliff >>>>>>>>>>I rode to arrest a lift. >>>>>>>>>Electrodes tie my wrists. >>>>>>>>Erode the Mai Tai wisps. >>>>>>>Erotic in tiny sips. >>>>>>Exotic Women in slips! >>>>>Eclectic cows without lips. >>>>Electric eels at my heels. >>>Drunken seals slip on peels. >>Strumpet's deals on slippery meals. >Redesigning the wheel with zeal. Realizing a feel for eels. -- _____________________________________________________________________ | Gerald E. Hough II |Collects:KaTeBushSistersOfMErcyCure| | Wolf Park researcher |ClannadKitaroNikKershawDuaneEddyELO| | Battle Ground, IN |Likes:RushTheWomblesDuaneEddyChurch| |>>Insanity is time-consuming<< |UltimateSexRenNStimpyWolvesNYC-n-LA| ===================================================================== How does one get around the "more old text than new text" ploy????? 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Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!bronze!venus.iucf.indiana.edu!graham From: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu (JIM GRAHAM) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Visitations) Message-ID: <1992Mar26.031230.26651@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> Date: 26 Mar 92 04:04:01 GMT References: <=h9hjhjnoring@netcom.com> <484@grivel.une.oz.au> <19MAR199219013628@erich.triumf.ca> <1992Mar25.170848.1@fnalc.fnal.gov> Sender: news@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (USENET News System) Reply-To: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu Distribution: na Organization: Somewhere in Bloomington, Indiana Lines: 41 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5078 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1236 News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4 Nntp-Posting-Host: venus.iucf.indiana.edu In article <1992Mar25.170848.1@fnalc.fnal.gov>, raph@fnalc.fnal.gov writes... >In article <1992Mar23.033341.12116@cc.uow.edu.au>, >> >> On the other hand, E.T.s with technology advanced enough to get in totally >> undetected (consider the number of people world-wide searching for new >> comets), they would probably have seen so much of the universe as to be >> completely uninterested in us. >> >> Either way, it doesn't look good for UFOs. I can see some flaws in this >> argument, but on the whole I find it so compelling that I don't believe >> in UFOs, even though I once saw one (i.e. unexplained sighting that didn't >> look like it could possibly be anything normal). Wait a minute! You find _your own_ rationale that "they would probably have seen so much of the universe as to be completely uninterested..." more "compelling" than your own "unexplained sighting"? I don't understand this. Are you saying that you rely more on your theories rather than what you _see_? If so, let me ask you a hypothetical question.... Let's suppose a "ufo" lands on the White House lawn (a good, overused scenario):-). Now, what you're implying above, is that even though you might _see_ this, you will still refuse to believe it is real, because _you_ believe that they "would probably have seen so much of the universe as to be completely uninterested..". Jim Graham -> ->Disclaimer: I do not speak for my company. <- <- Neither do they speak for me. ______________________________________________________________________ | Internet: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu | | dolmen!jgraham@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu | | BBS: The PORTAL DOLMEN BBS/ParaNet ALPHA-GAMMA (sm) (9:1012/13) | | (812) 334-0418, 24hrs. | |______________________________________________________________________| Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!yale.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!watserv1!watdragon!watyew!jdnicoll From: jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Visitations) Message-ID: <1992Mar26.045123.13723@watdragon.waterloo.edu> Date: 26 Mar 92 04:51:23 GMT References: <19MAR199219013628@erich.triumf.ca> <1992Mar20.182200.19700@news.iastate.edu> <1992Mar23.183954.14298@watdragon.waterloo.edu> <1992Mar24.163921.23802@news.iastate.edu> Sender: news@watdragon.waterloo.edu (USENET News System) Organization: University of Waterloo Lines: 47 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5079 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1238 In article <1992Mar24.163921.23802@news.iastate.edu> bible@iastate.edu (Anthony E Bible) writes: >In article <1992Mar23.183954.14298@watdragon.waterloo.edu> jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) writes: >> >> This is misleading, because newtonian calculations diverge from >>observations as you approach C. A year will get you to .78 C, where the >>dilation is something like 0.63. Shorter, but it still takes 4.6 years to get >>to Alpha Centauri and about 6.4 years to cross the average distance between >>stars in this neighborhood. >> >> Even 1 gee constant acceleration takes 3.5 years to get to AC. >> > > Hmmmm. Are these times cast in spaceship reference or the reference >of an external observer? I guess I'd like to know how you arrived at them. My >(admittedly poor) understanding of near-light speed is that the space-ship time >would run so slowly compared to external time that the enroute elapsed time >would appear negligible to the travelers. That would leave only the time to >get up to and down from light-speed. It's all ship time. Lesee, the equation I used was: t = 2Ccosh(1+da/C**2) C = speed of light d = distance travelled a = acceleration. I *think*. I've been doing this long enough that given the numbers, I run through the eqn without being aware of what I doing :(. Max velocity is something like: V = (1-((1+da/C**2)**(-2)))**(1/2) Yes, if you accelerate close to C and slow down again, you will have measured the interval as smaller than an observer who didn't delta his vee. Because it takes time to reach relativistic velocities, the difference in intervals is not very big for trips with small acceleration and/or distances (The AC round trip would be 7 years for the ship and 12 for people on Earth, only 5 years different. To the galactic center and back is ~21 years measured by the ship and 64,000 years as measured on Earth). To get really dramatic differences you need high accelerations or large distances. 100gs to AC is 86 days both ways and about nine years, depending on whether you were on the ship or not. 100 gs will turn you to jelly, and the total delta vee is absurd, of course. James Nicoll Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!destroyer!fmsrl7!ukma!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ufos To Be Discussed On Larry King Message-ID: <120701.29D162F2@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 26 Mar 92 03:21:00 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - A great show indeed the author of the book is David Jacobs PHD > from Temple. The book is ten years worth of research and interviews > with abductees. > The name of the book is Secret Life. If anyone has read please let us > know what you think of it. Just for information, ParaNet has an abduction conference available on a list server which is hosted by Dr. Jacobs. If you wish to get it, send email to me at mcorbin@paranet.org. I will get anyone on that list that wishes to subscribe to it. We also have a list server which has our daily UFO traffic from within our network. Mike -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!fnal.fnal.gov!raph From: raph@fnalna.fnal.gov Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Abducted while driving? Message-ID: <1992Mar26.073004.1@fnalna.fnal.gov> Date: 26 Mar 92 13:30:04 GMT References: <1992Mar19.215003.4656@bsu-ucs.uucp> <1992Mar24.074909.1@fnalna.fnal.gov> <4g=j0p+sheaffer@netcom.com> Sender: news@ctr.columbia.edu (The Daily Lose) Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Lab Lines: 90 In article <4g=j0p+sheaffer@netcom.com>, sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes: > In article <1992Mar24.074909.1@fnalna.fnal.gov> raph@fnalna.fnal.gov writes: >>> >>Over the past four years I have run into several people who have had >>abduction experiences. I had been sure previously that such experiences were >>not genuine >> >>What is *not* normal, is to 1) see something extremely peculiar (e.g. a >>glowing UFO by the road, or other anomaly); 2) extended surrealistic >>episodes, such as having the brake, gas pedal and steering wheel stop >>responding to you, and the car continue at a very slow speed for many minutes >>or even miles; 3) extreme disorientation or shock afterwards which is >>apparent to others; 4) nightmares and dreams and perhaps sleeping disorders >>afterwards; 5) extreme reluctance or embarrassment or emotional turmoil in >>recalling, relating or dealing with the incident. These indicate a traumatic >>incident. >> >>Did any of these happen to you, other than the memory lapse? >> > > This is what is called "leading the witness." The subject begins remembering > very, very hard, and by golly, just maybe, Number 3 (or Number 5 or > whatever) *DID* happen to me!! NOW I can remember it! *sigh* "Leading the witness"? I have heard that expression used in two contexts. In one context, it was used to imply that some hypnotist was "planting" suggestions in the subject under hypnosis. I DO assume that the person reading this was NOT in a deep and suggestible hypnotic state at the time he was reading my posting: if he was and accidentally turned on the TV, do you think that he would have bought everything that was advertised?? ;-) ;-) (I hope everyone is not like "Opus" from the comic strip "Bloom County"!) No, I am just asking for more info. The other context during which "Leading the witness" is used is during criminal trials. By your comments I would have to conclude that you would discredit every rape victim if a doctor, policeman or lawyer questioned the witness about the attack! I am sure that some victims of a clear, violent attack might embellish the event a little; some very few people (who would be extremely neurotic and imbalanced) might even make up the whole thing, but this is hardly the case for the average person. The average gang-rape victim may mistakenly believe that there were eight rapists instead of six, or that the attack lasted for two hours instead of an hour and a quarter; but "leading the witness" is only valid about more *minor* aspects such as motive, the color of clothes, type of car, something someone said, etc. It still remains that the rape victim was treated in a violent, non-consentual, undignified way that resulted in severe repeated traumas, EVEN IF SOMEONE WAS LEADING THE WITNESS ABOUT SOME DETAILS. You cannot "lead a witness" who was *not* raped and traumatized into believing that they were severely raped. Come on now. There are significant similarities between abduction and rape. Both are traumatic. We are not talking about looking out a window here, and seeing something unusual for a minute or two! We are talking in both incidences about events that are extreme, nonconsentual, and that have an extreme psychological impact. **Both usually do not like to freely blab out the details to friends and acquaintances and strangers.** Both are very uneasy about the event. Both often suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder. Often victims of both decide to tell no one, at least for long periods of time; and sometimes seek professional help to overcome the effects of the trauma; and usually suffer some behavioral change, at least temporarily. This is not the result of a mere fantasy--somthing happened! The experience may vary, of course from one person to the next. Some people may lie, exagerate; I do not anymore, personally, feel that every abduction case is a fabrication. I used to, until I met a few abductees. > And here, right before our eyes, another "confirmation" of UFO > abductions is being conjured up into existence, whether it happened > or not. The *proper* way to proceed in such a situation is to > get the subject to tell you all he can, WITHOUT suggesting to him > in any way the kind of responses you are expecting. Because > this is difficult, it probably seldom, if ever, happens. > > And now you know why so many "UFO abductees" tell similar stories. Robert, you are quite right in some cases. Unfortunately, I have seen very convincing evidence that you are wrong in several cases! > > -- > > Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com > > Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! > > "The facts can only take you so far in this case.", > - Oliver Stone, discussing "JFK" on CBS-TV's "48 Hours", Feb. 5, 1992 Jim Hawtree - also a hardnosed skeptic, but one who has come across several incidents that cannot be written off. Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!att!fang!tarpit!tous!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: The Talmud as Given by Judas Iscariot Message-ID: <1992Mar26.064130.3613@bilver.uucp> Date: 26 Mar 92 06:41:30 GMT References: <1992Mar16.202028.17443@bilver.uucp> Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 29 In article sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes: >In article <1992Mar16.202028.17443@bilver.uucp> dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) writes: >>In article sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes: >>>> >>>Eduard "Billy" Meier of Switzerland is the perpetrator of the notorious >>>"UFOs from the Pleiades" hoax. > Actually I was only teasing you but you seem to be a good sport about it.. :-) I was in the library today and was flipping through the "Authors in Print" reference books and noted that the only listing that the book had on you was your "UFO Verdict - Examining the Evidence" book that was in 1986. Have you written any more on the subject of UFO's since then? I put your book on the inter-library loan program and should be getting it in the mail in a few weeks. I'll be on the lookout for your "new" book exposing Noam Chomsky :^_) Don -- -* Don Allen *- // Only | Are you ready for SETI? Internet: dona@bilver.uucp \X/ Amiga | Oct 12,1992 - ET comes to NM UUCP: .........uunet!peora!bilver!dona | The *real* "October Surprise" Psi-Tech and alien brain-wave research -- Whats going on at Los Alamos? Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!helios.physics.utoronto.ca!grindley From: grindley@helios.physics.utoronto.ca (Robin Grindley) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Visitations) Message-ID: <1992Mar26.152722.18057@helios.physics.utoronto.ca> Date: 26 Mar 92 15:27:22 GMT References: <1992Mar23.033341.12116@cc.uow.edu.au> <1992Mar25.170848.1@fnalc.fnal.gov> Sender: news@helios.physics.utoronto.ca (News Administrator) Organization: University of Toronto Physics/Astronomy/CITA Lines: 43 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5083 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1241 In article <1992Mar25.170848.1@fnalc.fnal.gov> raph@fnalc.fnal.gov writes: >In article <1992Mar23.033341.12116@cc.uow.edu.au>, >> plumpton@wampyr.cc.uow.edu.au (David Plumpton) writes: > >It is true that we do not know how to accelerate matter faster than c. But, >it is not true that *nothing* can travel faster than c. Information can. > >The EPR paradox (for Einstein, Rosen and Podolsky) from 1935 was an argument > It is true that "something" can travel faster than c, in this case the collapse of the quantum wave function, but it is NOT true that information can be transmitted using this. The point is that a measurement has a completely random and unpredictable outcome in quantum mechanics. We know beforehand the PROBABILITY of the given outcomes, but until we make the measurement we have NO IDEA which one we will actually get. With the coupled photons, observer A does not know what he/she will get. But once the spin is measured, A knows what B's measurement is (instantaneously), and if B chooses to measure also, then B will know what A's measurement was. But to transfer information (knowledge), you have to be able to SET the outcome on the other end. Imagine wanting to send whether a bit is 0 or 1. A wants to send a 1. Since A has no control over the measured spin, A cannot assign 1 to up, and 0 to down a priori, because it is beyond A's control. No info this way. You might then try to get around it by setting up some kind of synchronization between A and B. (Which has to be done using light signals, but this is just a startup overhead.) Every x seconds, A will either measure and collapse the wavefunction (1) or not measure (0). But even if A collapses, there is no way for B to know it was A collapsing the wavefunction, or whether B collapsed it by checking to see if A collapsed it! (Clear as mud, eh?) In any case, you never know who actually did the collapsing, all you know is given your measurement, the other person's had to be such and such. -- The opinions expressed above are fictional. Any resemblance betweens these opinions and other opinions living or dead is purely coincidental. robin grindley@cerebus.physics.utoronto.ca Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!warwick!kingpol!titan.kingston.ac.uk!is_b376 From: is_b376@titan.kingston.ac.uk Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Wierd Message-ID: <1992Mar26.162321.1@titan.kingston.ac.uk> Date: 26 Mar 92 16:23:21 GMT Sender: news@kingston.ac.uk (Network News) Organization: Kingston Polytechnic Lines: 3 Nntp-Posting-Host: tethys This has got to be the wierdest group I have ever seen.. Is everybody mad or am I not the only sane one??? Path: ns-mx!uunet!sun-barr!lll-winken!overload.lbl.gov!dog.ee.lbl.gov!csa2.lbl.gov!sichase From: sichase@csa2.lbl.gov (SCOTT I CHASE) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Visitations) Message-ID: <22282@dog.ee.lbl.gov> Date: 26 Mar 92 18:27:20 GMT References: <=h9hjhjnoring@netcom.com> <484@grivel.une.oz.au> <19MAR199219013628@erich.triumf.ca> <1992Mar25.170848.1@fnalc.fnal.gov> Reply-To: sichase@csa2.lbl.gov Distribution: na Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA Lines: 36 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5085 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1244 NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.197 News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4 In article <1992Mar25.170848.1@fnalc.fnal.gov>, raph@fnalc.fnal.gov writes... > >It is true that we do not know how to accelerate matter faster than c. But, >it is not true that *nothing* can travel faster than c. Information can. > >The EPR paradox (for Einstein, Rosen and Podolsky) from 1935 was an argument >that quantum mechanics predicts that it is possible to transfer information >faster than c. (BTW, Einstein did not care for the implications: he called >it "spooky action at a distance.") Recently experiments have shown that that >is indeed the case. Although we do not know how to move matter instantly >over distances, we can demonstrate that we can transfer information about spin >properties over distances faster than c. > Is this guy really at Fermilab? Is he the janitor? Has he just completely missed the point of the EPR experiments (not a paradox, thank you)? Or is he just yanking my chain? I'm afraid to even dignify his drivel with a response, but he sounds so slick that I feel the need to warn some unsuspecting reader of his post that this guy doesn't know the first thing about which he is claiming to speak. For the record: (1) There is no, No, NO experimental evidence for faster than light communication of information under any circumstance. (2) There is no paradox associated with the EPR experiments when viewed in the light of quantum field theory. It does not conflict with GR or anything else we know about. It may have been "spooky" to Einstein. So what? (3) I encourage brave readers to actually read the articles this guy quoted. You will find no support for his quackery. Have a nice day. -Scott Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!warwick!mrccrc!crc.ac.uk!sgamble From: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Abducted while driving? Message-ID: <1992Mar26.181137.6239@crc.ac.uk> Date: 26 Mar 92 18:11:37 GMT References: <1992Mar19.215003.4656@bsu-ucs.uucp> <1992Mar24.074909.1@fnalna.fnal.gov> <4g=j0p+sheaffer@netcom.com> Sender: news@crc.ac.uk Reply-To: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) Organization: MRC Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Harrow, UK Lines: 62 Nntp-Posting-Host: silicon In article <4g=j0p+sheaffer@netcom.com>, sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes: > [Included post from raph@fnalna.fnal.gov deleted] > > This is what is called "leading the witness." The subject begins remembering > very, very hard, and by golly, just maybe, Number 3 (or Number 5 or > whatever) *DID* happen to me!! NOW I can remember it! > > And here, right before our eyes, another "confirmation" of UFO > abductions is being conjured up into existence, whether it happened > or not. The *proper* way to proceed in such a situation is to > get the subject to tell you all he can, WITHOUT suggesting to him > in any way the kind of responses you are expecting. Because > this is difficult, it probably seldom, if ever, happens. > > And now you know why so many "UFO abductees" tell similar stories. > > Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Oh dear, I think I have found something of Roberts that I agree with (but I am sure I will be feeling better soon! :) :) ) Great care needs to be taken in handling witnesses to anything. This is particular important with sensitive cases such as abductions. Some of the abductees and close encounter witnesses I have spoken to are very shaken by their experience and seem very vunerable. If the UFO investigator comes along as a friend, somebody they can trust, I believe it would be very easy to influence them. One witness springs immediately to mind. He had what Hynek would call a Close Encounter of the First Kind. When he spoke to the original investigator, it was several months after reading one of George Adamski's books. So what he had seen was definately an extra-terrestrial spacecraft. A couple of years later he approached John Spencer at a lecture to tell John about his report. John had written a book called Perspectives, which is best summarised as at least some abductions are internally generated by the witness. This witness had read the book and related the story as if it were one of these imaginary saucers. But when he spoke later to the original investigator the report was back to the Adamski style flying saucer. Obviously not all cases of witness compliance are this blatent, however there is evidence that witnesses, probably sub-conciously, will bend their story to correspond with the beliefs of the investigator. This may not occur in all cases and may occur to a varing degree. If it is the first time you have met the witness how do you know? Spencer and Bertil Kuhlemann of Sweden both promote actively what they call witness lead investigation. Their technique seems to be to put down a tape recorder then request "please tell me about your experience" without even qualifying it with UFO experience/abduction. The prompts they use are very minimal "tell me more", "could you just repeat that so I have it clear in my mind" and "when was this" seem to be about all they use. The parting shot they use is very open ended "Is there anything you would like to add" which can be an opening to well yes they have had other abduction experiences or there have been other paranormal events. Steve. -- (Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!) Steve Gamble, Computing Services, Clinical Research Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK. Phone: 081 869 3293 JANET: s.gamble@uk.ac.crc INTERNET: s.gamble@crc.ac.uk Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: The Talmud as Given by Judas Iscariot Message-ID: <0+bjz8-sheaffer@netcom.com> Date: 26 Mar 92 17:55:54 GMT References: <1992Mar16.202028.17443@bilver.uucp> <1992Mar26.064130.3613@bilver.uucp> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 168 In article <1992Mar26.064130.3613@bilver.uucp> dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) writes: > >Actually I was only teasing you but you seem to be a good sport about >it.. :-) > >I was in the library today and was flipping through the "Authors in Print" >reference books and noted that the only listing that the book had on you >was your "UFO Verdict - Examining the Evidence" book that was in 1986. Have >you written any more on the subject of UFO's since then? > Well, I don't have any more books specifically on UFOs. Maybe someday. In brief here's what I have written thus far. I generally put something in each book that is greatly offensive to *somebody*! #1 "The UFO Verdict", which was found to be offensive by MUFON, and others who proclaim that "space aliens are really real!". #2 "Resentment Against Achievement", which was offensive to all who promote a Procrustean socialist vision, #3 "The Making of the Messiah", which (especially because it forthrightly discusses the delicate matter of the Immaculate Fornication) is offensive to all True Believers. All three are published by Prometheus Books, Buffalo, NY (800-421-0351). "Resentment Against Achievement" doesn't *exactly* refute Noan Chomsky (or even mention him!), but it attempts to explain what makes guys like him tick. My latest book, "The Making of the Messiah", does to Christianity what Salman Rushdie did to Islam: Robert Sheaffer Box 10441 San Jose, CA 95157 The Making of the Messiah New Book Confronts Christianity with its Greatest Challenge in Decades A new book published in November, 1991 Prometheus Books confronts Christianity with its greatest challenge in many a year. "The Making of the Messiah" by Robert Sheaffer differs from conventional works of Freethinkers by suggesting a radically different picture of the rise of Christianity. The book describes, to use Nietzsche's phrase, "The Birth of Christianity from the Spirit of Resentment." It tells why Christianity could only develop as it did, emerging from the envious anger of the lower classes. It shows how Christian writers altered historical facts to make the new religion "sell" better among those seething with resentment against Roman power and wealth. By looking at the chronological evolution of Christian writings and doctrine, exactly as skeptics investigate contemporary accounts of UFO abductions or psychic wonders, it is possible to infer the kinds of objections that the infant Church must have been struggling to meet, and from these long-suppressed objections deduce probable historical fact. This new perspective radically impacts Biblical criticism, in a manner that Humanists and Freethinkers will wholeheartedly applaud. "The Making of the Messiah" presents a compelling argument that Jesus was never "crucified" by the Romans, or anyone else. The familiar Gospel account of Jesus' death is termed the "cruci- fiction story." Biblical scholars generally acknowledge that the confusing and contradictory Gospel accounts of Jesus' two trials make absolutely no sense from the perspective of either Roman or Jewish law. Resolving this dilemma, the book presents compelling evidence that Jesus was indeed condemned by the Sanhedrin as stated in Mark 14:64, stoned to death, and hanged in a tree until sundown: the inescapable penalty under the Mosaic law for blasphemers and heretics. All of the ancient Rabbinical texts mentioning Jesus' death are totally consistent in recalling that he was "slain and hanged in a tree." There are even a few passages remaining in the oldest books of the New Testament proclaiming Jesus to have been slain and "hanged in a tree" - for example, Acts 5:30 and Galatians 3:13. These passages are NOT metaphor: they describe the punishment Jesus MUST have suffered if found guilty of the charges he faced! (See Deuteronomy 13:10; 21:22.) How did the cruci-fiction story arise? Several decades after Jesus' execution, when the infant Church sought to recruit converts among the Gentiles, the tale of a Jewish prophet "slain and hanged in a tree" probably failed to excite or inflame the listener. But when the story was changed to have Jesus "crucified" by the Romans, the tale electrified the resentful throughout the vast Empire. Another subject covered in great detail is Jesus' supposed "Virgin Birth." In recent years even many liberal Christians have been willing to question this highly-dubious claim. They quietly assume that Jesus must have been the natural son of Joseph. What they do not seem to realize is that it is absolutely clear (see Matthew 1:19) that Joseph knew the child was not his, and that he believed Mary to be guilty of adultery. This is abundantly confirmed by a number of other ancient texts, both Christian and Jewish. Therefore, unless Mary's pregnancy is of supernatural origin, she is an adulteress. Tracing the development of Christianity's various accounts of Jesus' origin, it becomes obvious that the "Virgin Birth" fable, which was not taught until nearly a century after Jesus was born, was invented as a "cover story" to mask the shameful reality of Jesus' illegitimate birth. The gospels of Mark and John say nothing whatever about Jesus' birth; the authors of those gospels must have assumed that the reader already knew of Jesus' illegitimacy, which intrudes upon the text in several places. The genealogies of Jesus given in Matthew and Luke differ because the former was obviously compiled by someone hostile to the new religion. It lists among Jesus' ancestors some of the most notorious disinherited kings and fallen women of the Davidic line. The problem was fixed in Luke, whose genealogy contains only respectable names. Because bastard children were treated extremely harshly under the Mosaic law, it is not surprising that Jesus chafed at the restrictions The Law placed upon him, claiming the inspiration of a "higher law" from above. Jesus' experience of being "despised and rejected" owing to an accident of birth shaped the very fabric of early Christianity, and drew together under that religion's banner all who chafed at living under The Law. What set Jesus apart from other Messianic pretenders was the claim that he arose from the dead. The evidence offered in support of this claim is scrutinized in detail. When these accounts are examined in chronological order of composition, in light of long-suppressed Roman-era criticisms, a clear pattern emerges. The earliest accounts make the least-convincing claims of an actual, physical resurrection. Paul sees a vision of a risen Jesus, which is worthless as "evidence" for anything. As time progresses, Christianity's claims that people had sighted an actual, physical risen Jesus become more definite. Many ancient manuscripts of the earliest gospel, Mark, contain absolutely no sightings of a risen Jesus, whose resurrection is merely inferred because his body was not where it had been left. Mark 16:9-20, which describes such sightings, was written years later, to answer objections that nobody actually SAW Jesus after his supposed resurrection. The only reasonable conclusion to be drawn is that the supposed resurrection never occurred. Robert Sheaffer is the author of "Resentment Against Achievement" (Prometheus, 1988). Laissez Faire Books hails it as "a modern classic," comparing it to the works of H. L. Mencken, Friedrich Nietzsche, and Ayn Rand. Success Magazine writes that "the book crackles with ideas that others have failed to perceive, or have been too timid to express." Sheaffer's first book was "The UFO Verdict" (Prometheus, 1981), a highly-skeptical analysis of UFO mania, about which Sky and Telescope magazine said, "if you're only going to have one book on UFOs, this is the one." He is a regular columnist for The Skeptical Inquirer. "The Making of the Messiah" is $19.95 (+$3 P&H). It can be ordered from Prometheus at 59 John Glenn Drive, Amherst, NY 14215, or call toll free 1-800-421-0351.) -- Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! "In the 1970's the world will undergo famines - hundreds of millions of people are going to starve to death in spite of any crash programs embarked upon now ... in 1985, when it is calculated [under the most optimistic scenario] that the major die-back will be over, ..." Dr. Paul Ehrlich, "The Population Bomb," 1968 Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Abducted while driving? Message-ID: Date: 26 Mar 92 18:11:27 GMT References: <1992Mar24.074909.1@fnalna.fnal.gov> <4g=j0p+sheaffer@netcom.com> <1992Mar26.073004.1@fnalna.fnal.gov> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 56 In article <1992Mar26.073004.1@fnalna.fnal.gov> raph@fnalna.fnal.gov writes: >*sigh* >"Leading the witness"? >I have heard that expression used in two contexts. In one context, it was >used to imply that some hypnotist was "planting" suggestions in the subject >under hypnosis. I DO assume that the person reading this was NOT in a deep >and suggestible hypnotic state at the time he was reading my posting: if he > Well, since "hypnosis" is mostly bullsh*t, anyway, it doesn't really matter. Read Dr. Robert Baker's book, "Some Call it Hypnosis"; there is no evidence of a separate and distinct 'hypnotic state', but people can be suceptible or suggestible at any time, if circumstances are right. By saying in essence, "these things (numbers 1 through 5) often happen to UFO abductees: did they happen to you?", you are planting in the subject's mind the suggestion that he should search his memory *very hard* for precisely these things. And if he manages to convince himself that any of them are true, he now knows (roughly speaking) what to report! I realize, of course, that this forum is *not* the right medium for anyone to conduct such queries, and that Jim was not attempting to formally do so. I point this out only to illustrate how easily a person's memories of an incident can become "contaminated" by extraneous data. >The other context during which "Leading the witness" is used is during >criminal trials. By your comments I would have to conclude that you would >discredit every rape victim if a doctor, policeman or lawyer questioned the >witness about the attack! I am sure that some victims of a clear, violent > As a positive example of how to proceed, First, get the subject to fully state all memories (and get everything on tape). Don't say things like, "abductees are often fatigued, were you fatigued?". Instead, ask "how did you feel at the time?" If you get no useful reply, ask "what was your energy level at this time? High or low?" Get the point??! :) -- Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! "In the 1970's the world will undergo famines - hundreds of millions of people are going to starve to death in spite of any crash programs embarked upon now ... in 1985, when it is calculated [under the most optimistic scenario] that the major die-back will be over, ..." Dr. Paul Ehrlich, "The Population Bomb," 1968 Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!wupost!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!news.umbc.edu!umbc4.umbc.edu!hannon From: hannon@umbc4.umbc.edu (Mr. Scott Hannon; PHYS (GRAD)) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Visitations) Message-ID: <1992Mar26.203509.2869@umbc3.umbc.edu> Date: 26 Mar 92 20:35:09 GMT References: <1992Mar25.170848.1@fnalc.fnal.gov> <22282@dog.ee.lbl.gov> Sender: newspost@umbc3.umbc.edu (News posting account) Distribution: na Organization: University of Maryland Baltimore Campus, Academic Computing Services Lines: 47 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5089 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1246 >In article <1992Mar25.170848.1@fnalc.fnal.gov>, raph@fnalc.fnal.gov writes... >> >>It is true that we do not know how to accelerate matter faster than c. But, >>it is not true that *nothing* can travel faster than c. Information can. [rest deleted] In article <22282@dog.ee.lbl.gov> sichase@csa2.lbl.gov writes: [nasty bits deleted] > >(1) There is no, No, NO experimental evidence for faster than light >communication of information under any circumstance. > >(2) There is no paradox associated with the EPR experiments when viewed in the >light of quantum field theory. It does not conflict with GR or anything else >we know about. It may have been "spooky" to Einstein. So what? > [deleted] I'm certainly no expert in QM or the EPR experiment, but I think the person who responded above was a bit too harsh. Sure the original poster was wrong about the EPR experiment and the ability to transmit info faster than light, but to give the impression that there is no paradox or nothing "spooky" about QM is also somewhat wrong. Last summer I read a book called _Quantum Reality_ by Nick Herbert, the book being about what QM can tell us about the nature of "reality". The book does not focus on just one theory/interpretation, but rather tries to cover them all (Bohr, Einstein, Wheeler, etc...). The main conclusion of the book is that no matter what interpretation a person might choose, they must accept at least one bizarre (well, bizarre to everyone who doesn't accept that interpretation :-) condition (one example being there is no such thing as local causality...everything involves "spooky action at a distance"; other interpretations lead to different, but similarly unpleasant, conditions). Actually, the book was more concerned with John Stewart Bell's inequality, which is based upon the EPR experiment, than with the EPR experiment itself. It is this inequality that has, so far, lead to at least one unpleasantness for every interpretation of reality based on QM. Quite an interesting read. I hope I have not offended either poster; I just wanted to say that MANY physicists who go beyond "shut up and do the math" will find at least some aspect of QM "spooky". Scott Hannon. -- Scott Hannon, Thu Mar 26 1992 (hannon@umbc4.umbc.edu) Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!darwin.sura.net!ukma!widener!dsinc!pitt.edu!unix.cis.pitt.edu!leping From: leping@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Leping N Zha) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Abducted while driving? Message-ID: <203995@unix.cis.pitt.edu> Date: 26 Mar 92 23:20:30 GMT References: <4g=j0p+sheaffer@netcom.com> <1992Mar26.073004.1@fnalna.fnal.gov> Organization: University of Pittsburgh Lines: 4 Did anyone experienced such missing time during driving smelled sulphur in the air after it happened (as my whole family did two years ago on the DC-Baltimore expressway)? Path: ns-mx!uunet!munnari.oz.au!deakin.OZ.AU!cs.uow.edu.au!cc.uow.edu.au!plumpton From: plumpton@wampyr.cc.uow.edu.au (David Plumpton) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Visitations) Message-ID: <1992Mar26.225633.2623@cc.uow.edu.au> Date: 26 Mar 92 22:56:33 GMT References: <=h9hjhjnoring@netcom.com> <484@grivel.une.oz.au> <19MAR199219013628@erich.triumf.ca> <1992Mar23.033341.12116@cc.uow.edu.au> <1992Mar25.170848.1@fnalc.fnal.gov> Sender: plumpton@cc.uow.edu.au (david james plumpton) Organization: University Of Wollongong Lines: 30 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5091 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1248 raph@fnalc.fnal.gov writes: >it is not true that *nothing* can travel faster than c. Information can. >The EPR paradox (for Einstein, Rosen and Podolsky) from 1935 was an argument >that quantum mechanics predicts that it is possible to transfer information >faster than c. (BTW, Einstein did not care for the implications: he called >it "spooky action at a distance.") Recently experiments have shown that that >is indeed the case. Although we do not know how to move matter instantly >over distances, we can demonstrate that we can transfer information about spin >properties over distances faster than c. Various EPR stuff omitted >But, it is WRONG to assert that NOTHING CAN EXCEED THE SPEED OF LIGHT! > Cordially, Jim Hawtree I've seen the EPR stuff before--yes it's a fact, but every time I've ever heard about it, the "spooky action at a distance" cannot be used to transmit information. There's some nasty catch that explicitly prevents this from happening. It was something to do with introducing a random number into the spin (perhaps the state of the original spin???) I'm not attempting to assert that nothing can exceed the speed of light. I'm asserting that anything that could wouldn't be interested in the likes of you and me. -- /------------------------------\ /-------------------------------\ I David Plumpton I There is a holy trinity: | I plumpton@wampyr.cc.uow.edu.au I N Tesla, R Feynman and C Sagan | \------------------------------/ \-------------------------------/ Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!mucs!p4.cs.man.ac.uk!parryh From: parryh@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (Howell Parry) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: HUGE SAUSAGE!! Message-ID: Date: 26 Mar 92 19:40:52 GMT Sender: news@cs.man.ac.uk Lines: 25 I was driving home from uni last year, when suddenly, out of the sky came a huge sausage!!! It landed in front of my car, and forced me to stop. Some small maggot-like creatures emerged from the sausage, and grabbed me out of the car. They took me inside the sausage. It was all dark and smelled of rotting meat. There was a whirring sound, and suddenly, the sausage opened up and I was on an alien planet, where all the inhabitants were sausages! They all wobbled around, and had big smiles on their faces..... They took me to a hut, and gave me a bowl of cornflakes. Suddenly, there was another whirring sound, and before I knew it, I was parked in my car at the side of the road, back on Earth. Can anyone explain this? Has anyone else had a similar experience? Are there really sausages in space? -Howell Parry. E-mail: parryh@uk.ac.man.cs.p4 -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ! Howell Parry. 2nd yr Computer Science and Mathematics, ! ! Manchester Uni, Uk ! ! E-mail: parryh@uk.ac.man.cs.p4 ! Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!wupost!uunet!mcsun!uknet!mucs!p4.cs.man.ac.uk!parryh From: parryh@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (Howell Parry) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.stupidity,talk.bizarre Subject: HUGE SAUSAGE!!! Message-ID: Date: 26 Mar 92 19:56:07 GMT Sender: news@cs.man.ac.uk Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Lines: 25 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5093 alt.stupidity:4328 talk.bizarre:53399 I was driving home from uni last year, when suddenly, out of the sky came a huge sausage!!! It landed in front of my car, and forced me to stop. Some small maggot-like creatures emerged from the sausage, and grabbed me out of the car. They took me inside the sausage. It was all dark and smelled of rotting meat. There was a whirring sound, and suddenly, the sausage opened up and I was on an alien planet, where all the inhabitants were sausages! They all wobbled around, and had big smiles on their faces..... They took me to a hut, and gave me a bowl of cornflakes. Suddenly, there was another whirring sound, and before I knew it, I was parked in my car at the side of the road, back on Earth. Can anyone explain this? Has anyone else had a similar experience? Are there really sausages in space? -Howell Parry. E-mail: parryh@uk.ac.man.cs.p4 -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ! Howell Parry. 2nd yr Comp Sci & Maths, Manchester Uni, Uk ! ! E-mail: parryh@uk.ac.man.cs.p4 ! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Path: ns-mx!uunet!world!kibo From: kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: HUGE SAUSAGE!! Message-ID: Date: 27 Mar 92 01:31:35 GMT References: Organization: A room filled with typography (in Boston's Back Bay) Lines: 13 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5094 alt.religion.kibology:1330 In article parryh@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (Howell Parry) writes: >They took me inside the sausage. It was all dark and smelled of rotting meat. >There was a whirring sound, and suddenly, the sausage opened up and I was on >an alien planet, where all the inhabitants were sausages! I'd like to point out that I have no reason to suspect that I may be related to Howell. -- .................. ................................................... James "Kibo" Parry 271 Dartmouth St #3D, Boston MA 02116 (617)262-3922 kibo@world.std.com Independent graphic designer and typeface designer. Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!access.usask.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!bison!draco!sys6626!inqmind!pegasis From: pegasis@inqmind.bison.mb.ca (John) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFOs to be discussed on Larry King Keywords: sightings,ufo Message-ID: Date: 26 Mar 92 20:55:34 GMT References: <1992Mar25.104541.11840@mother.bates.edu> Organization: The Inquiring Mind 1 204 488-1607 Lines: 19 mperron@mother.bates.edu (Mike Perron) writes: > > While on this topic, it brings to mind a sighting I had which I hope > someone can give an explanation for. It was 1:30am on top of a local hilltop > when looking intensely up at the clear sky I noticed single lighted or star > like objects at high altitude moving at a steady speed. Much like a jet looks > from the ground. The problem is that from my view a span of about 5 miles, t > sky was full of these (objects). I estimated more than 1000 to 2000 points of > light. I didn't hear much of anything but was amazed. I left quickly to tel- What you could have been expierencing was a meteor(sp?) shower granted it would have to have been a large one, but it is possable. Pegasis pegasis@inqmind.bison.mb.ca The Inquiring Mind BBS, Winnipeg, Manitoba 204 488-1607 Path: ns-mx!uunet!sun-barr!lll-winken!iggy.GW.Vitalink.COM!widener!beyonet!beyo From: beyo@beyonet.UUCP (Steve Urich) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: HUGE SAUSAGE!! Message-ID: <319@beyonet.UUCP> Date: 27 Mar 92 03:02:24 GMT References: Organization: Beyonet Network Lines: 13 You've been playing too much `Hide the Sausage' with yourself. :-) -- ############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ############### ##|_|########## Bensalem, PA USA |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|########## ###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ############### #### #### snark!beyonet!beyo |when I hit the Screen" #### #### ## |_| ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project ## |_| ## ## ##-----------------------------------------------## ## #### #### Packet Radio: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.#EPA.PA.USA.NA #### #### _###############_______________________________________________###############_ Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!sumax!ole!ssc!fylz!eskimo!ice From: ice@eskimo.celestial.com (Greg Toth) Newsgroups: rec.sport.pro-wrestling,alt.alien.visitors Subject: UW theory Message-ID: <1992Mar26.191023.9944@eskimo.celestial.com> Date: 26 Mar 92 19:10:23 GMT Organization: <<< ESKIMO NORTH (206)-FOR-EVER >>> Lines: 10 Xref: ns-mx rec.sport.pro-wrestling:16333 alt.alien.visitors:5097 My theory is that the Ultimate Warrior was kidnaped by aliens from outter space and replaced by a robot while they attempted to clone an army of UWs with which to destroy the universe. Steve DiSalvo, who ais a government agent discovered this plot and was able to destroy the robot and convince Vince to enter negotiations for the return of the original UW. This explains the disapearance of the original UW, the subsequent appearance of someone who did not quite look like him, the subsequent disapearance of this person (or robot) and the identidy of the mysterious Steve DiSalvo. Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!convex!linac!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!press2 From: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: HUGE SAUSAGE!!! Message-ID: <1992Mar27.050401.20205@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> Date: 27 Mar 92 05:04:01 GMT References: Organization: AT&T Lines: 16 In article , parryh@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (Howell Parry) writes: > I was driving home from uni last year, when suddenly, out of the sky > came a huge sausage!!! [...] > > Can anyone explain this? Has anyone else had a similar experience? > Are there really sausages in space? > Well, I was driving down the highway in upper Wisconsin one night and I had actually lost track of time, and there was a strong odor of methane gas in the vehicle. I stopped the car and tried to make a dash away from it, but slipped over several beer cans on the floor and fell out. I then noticed a scrape on my head that hadn't been there before. I was never able to find out what happened. But no, I never heard of a flying sausage craft, or sausage people. Path: ns-mx!uunet!world!kibo From: kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) Newsgroups: alt.religion.kibology,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: HUGE SAUSAGE!! Message-ID: Date: 27 Mar 92 06:56:20 GMT References: <1992Mar27.021617.15599@math.ucla.edu> Organization: A room filled with typography (in Boston's Back Bay) Lines: 18 Xref: ns-mx alt.religion.kibology:1334 alt.alien.visitors:5099 In article <1992Mar27.021617.15599@math.ucla.edu> sherman@oak.math.ucla.edu (The Ahkond of Swat) writes: >In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>I'd like to point out that I have no reason to suspect that I may >>be related to Howell. > >What about Lovey? Now that I think of it, if you're related to any >of those castaways, it's probably Gilligan. Actually, I played The Professor. One day I invented this ersatz Minoxodil made from coconuts using my nuclear accelerator (made from bamboo and seaweed) but Gilligan goofed it up and when we smeared it on the Cap'n it turned him into Cap'n Crunch and he went around coating everything with sugar. Also, I played Martin Landau in "The Harlem Globetrotters on Gilligan's Island", in which they played basketball against robots for the fate of the world. -- K. Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!news From: dyett@phad.hsc.usc.edu (Donald Yett) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Wierd Message-ID: Date: 27 Mar 92 08:53:06 GMT References: <1992Mar26.162321.1@titan.kingston.ac.uk> Sender: dyett@phad.hsc.usc.edu (Donald Yett) Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA Lines: 15 NNTP-Posting-Host: phad.hsc.usc.edu In article <1992Mar26.162321.1@titan.kingston.ac.uk> is_b376@titan.kingston.ac.uk writes: >This has got to be the wierdest group I have ever seen.. > >Is everybody mad or am I not the only sane one??? Sanity, WHAT A CONCEPT!! :) I live outside of the asylum... -Wonko the Sane -- +-------------------------+---------------------------------------------------- | dyett@phad.hsc.usc.edu | I will not be pushed, stamped, filed, indexed, | Just my opinions! | briefed, debriefed, or numbered! - #6, The Prisoner +-------------------------+---------------------------------------------------- Path: ns-mx!uunet!van-bc!ubc-cs!mprgate.mpr.ca!mprgate.mpr.ca!spani From: spani@mprgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Abducted while driving? Message-ID: <1992Mar27.005641.27722@mprgate.mpr.ca> Date: 27 Mar 92 00:56:41 GMT References: <1992Mar24.074909.1@fnalna.fnal.gov> <4g=j0p+sheaffer@netcom.com> <1992Mar26.073004.1@fnalna.fnal.gov> Sender: news@mprgate.mpr.ca Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada Lines: 27 In article , sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes: [...] |> Well, since "hypnosis" is mostly bullsh*t, anyway, it doesn't really |> matter. Read Dr. Robert Baker's book, "Some Call it Hypnosis"; there |> is no evidence of a separate and distinct 'hypnotic state', but |> people can be suceptible or suggestible at any time, if circumstances |> are right. [...] What year was "Some Call it Hypnosis" published? I need to do some reading on hypnosis if I'm ever going to form an opinion on it's use in abduction investigation. If anyone knows of any other (recent) books about hynosis, could you post a list? Thanks, Leonard. -- *********************************************************************** | Leonard E. Spani | //!?\\ | (disclaimer-p) | | spani@mprgate.mpr.ca | \\?!// | t | *********************************************************************** Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ira.uka.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!sun.rhrk.uni-kl.de!efes.physik.uni-kl.de!kring From: kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Abducted while driving? Message-ID: <1992Mar27.140158.13587@rhrk.uni-kl.de> Date: 27 Mar 92 14:01:58 GMT References: <1992Mar19.215003.4656@bsu-ucs.uucp> <1992Mar24.074909.1@fnalna.fnal.gov> <4g=j0p+sheaffer@netcom.com> <1992Mar26.073004.1@fnalna.fnal.gov> Sender: news@rhrk.uni-kl.de Organization: FB Physik, Universitaet Kaiserslautern, Germany Lines: 10 In article <1992Mar26.073004.1@fnalna.fnal.gov>, raph@fnalna.fnal.gov writes: [..] > Jim Hawtree - also a hardnosed skeptic, but one who has come across several > incidents that cannot be written off. Surely you mean: incidents that he couldn't find a way to write off. -- -Caddy--(thomas kettenring, 2 dan, kaiserslautern, germany)----- The question of whether the electron is a wave or a particle has a clear and definite answer: No. Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!caen!hellgate.utah.edu!dog.ee.lbl.gov!csa2.lbl.gov!sichase From: sichase@csa2.lbl.gov (SCOTT I CHASE) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Visitations) Message-ID: <22316@dog.ee.lbl.gov> Date: 27 Mar 92 19:52:21 GMT References: <1992Mar25.170848.1@fnalc.fnal.gov> <22282@dog.ee.lbl.gov> <1992Mar26.203509.2869@umbc3.umbc.edu> Reply-To: sichase@csa2.lbl.gov Distribution: na Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA Lines: 87 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5103 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1254 NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.197 News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4 In article <1992Mar26.203509.2869@umbc3.umbc.edu>, hannon@umbc4.umbc.edu (Mr. Scott Hannon; PHYS (GRAD)) writes... >>In article <1992Mar25.170848.1@fnalc.fnal.gov>, raph@fnalc.fnal.gov writes... >>> >>>It is true that we do not know how to accelerate matter faster than c. But, >>>it is not true that *nothing* can travel faster than c. Information can. >[rest deleted] > >In article <22282@dog.ee.lbl.gov> sichase@csa2.lbl.gov writes: >[nasty bits deleted] >> >>(1) There is no, No, NO experimental evidence for faster than light >>communication of information under any circumstance. >> >>(2) There is no paradox associated with the EPR experiments when viewed in the >>light of quantum field theory. It does not conflict with GR or anything else >>we know about. It may have been "spooky" to Einstein. So what? >> >[deleted] > >I'm certainly no expert in QM or the EPR experiment, but I think the person >who responded above was a bit too harsh. Sure the original poster was wrong >about the EPR experiment and the ability to transmit info faster than light, >but to give the impression that there is no paradox or nothing "spooky" >about QM is also somewhat wrong. >[Stuff about a book deleted] >I hope I have not offended either poster; I just wanted to say that MANY >physicists who go beyond "shut up and do the math" will find at least some >aspect of QM "spooky". > (I apologize in advance for the strength of the following statement. But my dander is really up this morning after I read my E-mail. -Scott) I maintain that my statements are correct. Lots of things are spooky. Life is spooky. Maybe some people find Quantum Field Theory spooky. I don't. I have studied it for many years, and understand it to my satisfaction (I don't work in the field, and am not an Expert). The important point is that just because someone with credentials says that EPR is "spooky" doesn't provide a shred of proof that QM is wrong, or that it will ultimately be proved wrong. I am amazed at how many people have sent me E-mail complaining that I firmly state that no, No, No experimental evidence which conflicts with Quantum Mechanics. People seem to think that this is some kind of closed-minded approach to the subject. Perhaps someone will supply a reference to such an experiment? I will humbly apologize, and then become famous for bringing this shocking news to the physics community. Scientists do not believe in Special Relativity and Quantum Mechanics, the two foundations of modern physics, because most of the evidence suggests that they are right. They do so because ALL OF THE EVIDENCE SHOWS THAT THEY ARE RIGHT. There exists NO evidence to contradict either theory. That is why scientists have developed such high confidence in them over the better part of a century. Sure, it is conceivable that someone someday will find some experiment which disagrees with one or the other. But you must expect that if and when this happens, it will be shown that the current theories are excellent approximations to the better theory in most circumstances anyway, or else they would never have done so well so far. Final point: A "paradox" is a problem which seems to have two contradictory interpretations. Olber created a paradox when he realized that (1) The universe is infinite (2) All stars should have the same brightness/area regardless of distance from us. (3) The entire sky should be as bright as the sun, but (4) It isn't. What's the problem? (1) Is wrong. The Universe if finite in ago, and rapidly expanding. Is there a logical paradox with cosmology because of Olber's argument. No. He didn't know enough, so he got stuck. The EPR experiment is more complicated to explain in only a few words. The bottom line is that there is a completely consistent way of looking at the problem in the context of quantum field theory, and there is no logical problem with any theory as the result of the EPR experiment. There is no paradox. It requires accepting the collapse of an N-particle wavefunction in zero time. But that's not so new. It does't violate causality or allow faster than light communication. I'm sorry if that statement conflicts with what you have heard from other sources. If so, your other sources are wrong. If you don't believe me, get a physics textbook (not some popularization), and learn about it yourself. -Scott Path: ns-mx!uunet!zephyr.ens.tek.com!uw-beaver!fluke!emery From: emery@tc.fluke.COM (John Emery) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 ! Message-ID: <1992Mar26.212938.27474@tc.fluke.COM> Date: 26 Mar 92 21:29:38 GMT References: <1992Mar10.204457.1045@visix.com> <1992Mar16.224559.4823@tc.fluke.COM> <16MAR199218013175@cc.weber.edu> Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA Lines: 30 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5104 alt.pagan:13843 alt.paranormal:4696 talk.religion.newage:9902 In article <16MAR199218013175@cc.weber.edu> JTAN@cc.weber.edu writes: >In article <1992Mar16.224559.4823@tc.fluke.COM>, emery@tc.fluke.COM (John >Emery) writes... >>in the heart of the instigator? If there were peace in the hearts of >>people, then we wouldn't have external problems. There is something wrong > > Not necessarily. If we had Peace AND non-Peace in our hearts, >then it would be possible for us to have external problems because >the two are at odds with each other, and one must win out, even if >only temporarily. As long as it's the non-Peace side that is in >control, we will have external problems. But why is this non-peace there in the first place? What drives people to hurt or want to hurt other whether through direct violence, words, thoughts, or intentions. Something is wrong. > >Highest Love and Peace Yes. And I find it in the Lord Jesus who loves not only myself but all who read these words. >The Tan Man God bless and thanks for you comments, John emery@tc.fluke.COM [please remember my slow newsfeed. Have patience] Path: ns-mx!uunet!zephyr.ens.tek.com!uw-beaver!fluke!emery From: emery@tc.fluke.COM (John Emery) Newsgroups: alt.pagan,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 ! Keywords: Peace Clock Message-ID: <1992Mar26.213541.27635@tc.fluke.COM> Date: 26 Mar 92 21:35:41 GMT References: <1992Mar16.224926.5133@tc.fluke.COM> <29C66295.13101@orion.oac.uci.edu> <1992Mar18.024642.23904@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA Lines: 43 Xref: ns-mx alt.pagan:13844 talk.religion.newage:9903 alt.paranormal:4697 alt.alien.visitors:5105 In article <1992Mar18.024642.23904@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> elung@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Beth Lung) writes: >In article <29C66295.13101@orion.oac.uci.edu> cortese@hepxvt.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes: > >In article <1992Mar16.224926.5133@tc.fluke.COM> emery@tc.fluke.COM (John Emery) writes: > >John>Please share what you are referring to, Janis. > >Janis>Oh, how about "In pain shall you bring forth children. You shall remain >Janis>in subjugation to your husband all your life, but your wishes shall be >Janis>for him." All this is a result of the curse because of our sin. However, in addition to what you quote here another quote out of the Bible says that Jesus redeemed us from the curse of the law by paying for our sins (Galatians 3:13). >Janis>How about when Lot sent his two virgin daughters out into a ravening mob >Janis>of men so they would stop beating down his door? Lot sinned. >Janis>How about "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live?" O Janis, why not rather repent and live. His arms are open to accept and forgive. >Janis>How about "And the men of the city shall stone her with stones?" Jesus Christ was crucified. And He was innocent. >Perhapse, John, you might care to read _The Challis and the Blade_ >(unfortunatly I cannot remember the author's name right now) I think >it would provide you with some more -enlightening- examples. Thanks for the suggestion, Beth. > May you walk in peace, > Beth Thank you. And you also. John emery@tc.fluke.COM Path: ns-mx!uunet!zephyr.ens.tek.com!uw-beaver!fluke!emery From: emery@tc.fluke.COM (John Emery) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 ! Message-ID: <1992Mar26.222750.28816@tc.fluke.COM> Date: 26 Mar 92 22:27:50 GMT References: <1992Mar10.204457.1045@visix.com> <1992Mar16.224559.4823@tc.fluke.COM> <1992Mar18.224134.9034@visix.com> Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA Lines: 61 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5106 alt.pagan:13845 alt.paranormal:4698 talk.religion.newage:9904 In article <1992Mar18.224134.9034@visix.com> amanda@visix.com (Amanda Walker) writes: >emery@tc.fluke.COM (John Emery) writes: >> But my >> Lord Jesus offers such eternal words, "Peace I leave with you; my peace I >> give to you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your >> hearts be troubled and do not be afraid." > >That's not all he said, though. Take a look at Matthew 10:34-36, for >example ("Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth; >it is not peace I have come to bring, but a sword..."). Jesus is talking about those who persecute the ones who follow Him. Unfortunately, getting saved and converting to Christ is not a popular thing to do around those who have not. I still remember telling a friend of mine whom I grew up with what I had done when I accepted Jesus. When I said the Jesus was for him too, he wanted to hit me. People are even disowned from their families for following Jesus. But the promise of Jesus' peace in the hearts of those turn to Him still stands as the original quote above states. > >> Amanda, please share with the readers how your source of peace is found >> in these writings. Of particular interest, what have you found in the >> Quran that brings you peace? And how does it bring you peace? > >"And if they incline to peace, then incline to it and trust in Allah; >surely He is the Hearing, the Kknowing." Quran 8:61 Do you trust in Allah, Amanda? Is that what brings you peace? >"And Allah invites to the abode of peace and guides whom He pleases into > the right path." --Quran 10:25 So there is a right path, then? Don't you believe there are many paths? According this quote there is a right path. Is that what brings you peace, following the right path? Please explain why you believe in a right path and describe what it is. >> Amanda, if peace is already in everyone's heart, it sure has a way of >> disguising itself. Look around you. Is the world around you full of >> peace? > >Parts of it are indeed.... But awfully small parts. >> Thank you. I pray that He does. And not only I, but yourself and all >> those who are reading, whom He calls out to. > >Chuckle. I think you may be jumping to conclusions here :)... > > >Amanda Walker amanda@visix.com >Visix Software Inc. ...!uupsi!visix.com!amanda >-- >"Specialization is for insects." --Robert A. Heinlein Take care. Peace be upon you, John emery@tc.fluke.COM Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!jvnc.net!darwin.sura.net!convex!egsner!adaptex!sdf!hideo From: hideo@sdf.lonestar.org (David Carter) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Zontar? Message-ID: <1992Mar27.003222.7642@sdf.lonestar.org> Date: 27 Mar 92 00:32:22 GMT References: <92079.163105STDNTFE9@LMUACAD.BITNET> <1992Mar20.134733.9594@news.nd.edu> <1992Mar23.214722.16810@visix.com> Distribution: na Organization: sdf Public Access UNIX, Dallas--unrestricted free shell access Lines: 15 Another interesting occurrance of Zontar was a great episode of SCTV where these cabbage-on-a-string aliens landed on the roof and everyone started growing cabbage leaves out of their collars. The show ended with John Candy in a kind of alien-emperor-god getup bellowing directives from a big screen TV. Had on a skin-head wig and called himself Zontar. I saw Zontar Thing From Venus too! Whole movie takes place in a cheesy livingroom or in a cheesy cave. Period! Alternates between these 2 hideous locations. The color is hilariously substandard too. A must see. David Carter : URANUS: not truly a place aka Hideo Gump : where the Sun don't shine, Dallas, Texas USA : but certainly a place where hideo@sdf.lonestar.org : the Sun shines dimly! Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!fnal.fnal.gov!raph From: raph@fnalb.fnal.gov Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: What would it take for you...(WAS: Abducted while driving?) Summary: For skeptics, what is the minimum proof... Keywords: Your criteria; abduction; proof Message-ID: <1992Mar27.191554.1@fnalb.fnal.gov> Date: 28 Mar 92 01:15:54 GMT References: <1992Mar19.215003.4656@bsu-ucs.uucp> <1992Mar24.074909.1@fnalna.fnal.gov> <4g=j0p+sheaffer@netcom.com> <1992Mar26.073004.1@fnalna.fnal.gov> <1992Mar27.140158.13587@rhrk.uni-kl.de> Sender: news@ctr.columbia.edu (The Daily Lose) Followup-To: Re: Abducted while driving? Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Lab Lines: 88 In article <1992Mar27.140158.13587@rhrk.uni-kl.de>, kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring) writes: > In article <1992Mar26.073004.1@fnalna.fnal.gov>, raph@fnalna.fnal.gov writes: > [..] >> Jim Hawtree - also a hardnosed skeptic, but one who has come across several >> incidents that cannot be written off. > > Surely you mean: incidents that he couldn't find a way to write off. No, I mean that in certain cases that I am well-acquainted with, I have ran out of comfortable explanations. In these cases, I cannot ascribe the events to: 1)sloppy observation on the part of the witness; 2) lack of intelligence on the part of the witness; 3) desire for attention; 4) meteorological phenomena; 5) swamp gas, the planet Venus in the sky, etc.; 6) history of lying; 7) mental instability; 8) petite mal, minor stroke, drug use; 9) unusual optical effects, such as nonlinear reflections from windows; 10) practical jokes or fraud; 11) phosphenes; 12) hallucinations due to lack of sleep, extreme stress, etc.; 13) any disorders found in the DSM-III after examination by SEVERAL psychiatrists; Plus, the presence of several circumstances, generally including: 1) presence of shock and/or disorientation, objectively observable, on the part of the witness; 2) presence of most, or all the criteria for PTSD (post-traumatic stress disorder); 3) subjectively long interval over which the event occurred (i.e. not a momentary lapse); 4) lack of scripted, expected or fantasized details, or complete violation of all expectactions of what such an event would be like. Of course, many of the following are only possible to determine with someone one knows quite well. Of course, an actor or schizophrenic might put on a very convincing simulacrum; but the above just does not happen without a cause, and occam's razor starts to cut uncomfortably in the direction of the alien visitor hypothesis, leaving me with a feeling not unlike a Christian Scientist with appendicitis... :-) The similarity I made previously between rape and the "abduction" experience was not done lightly. Some things are similar, others are different in kind, but not in intensity. It does not in the least resemble wish-fulfillment, or a fantasy, or even fit the person's expectations. Unfortunately, what has impressed me I cannot expect to be taken as "objective" or "scientific" proof, alas. Unfortunately, there are "True Believers" who think all sorts of things exist, regardless of all proof and logic available to them; some of them are True Believers in the existence of UFOs; others are True Believers in the nonexistence of UFOs. I have held for most of my life the belief that if intelligent aliens existed, that they would act according to certain scenarios, or hypotheses; and that since these conditions were not met, they could not possibly reasonably exist. However, a few very good acquaintences were the means of puncturing that confortable assumption. BY THE WAY: What is the minimum sort of proof that you would need to experince for you to conclude that intelligent aliens really existed, and abducted people, and subjected them to some sort of (unknown, perhaps medical) tests? I would suggest that an experience that was 1) extremely intense in degree; 2) would last over an hour; and 3) have effects of some sort that would be observable by me after the "event" in an objective fashion, but not have a natural explanation. Would you consider this necessary and sufficient \ minimum proof for you? ( I am not talking about objective proof for all skeptics across the world here, I am asking what would convince YOU personally?) For instance, seeing lights in the sky, or even a glowing disk for 10 minutes would not be sufficient for me; nor would a half-hour of bizarre goings-on in my bedroom be sufficient evidence for me. Assuming that you are a reasonable person, what is your minimum criterion or criteria for accepting the alien hypothesis? Or is this question somehow intellectually unfair? > The question of whether the electron is a wave or a particle > has a clear and definite answer: No. Cordially, Jim Hawtree ************************************************************************* Disclaimer: Neither the senior physicists nor the janitor's union at Fermilab knows about nor cares about (let alone endorses) my opinions and statements above. ************************************************************************* "If anyone disagrees with anything I say, I am quite prepared not only to retract it, but also to deny under oath that I ever said it." -- Tom Lehrer ************************************************************************* Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!mips!swrinde!network.ucsd.edu!news.acns.nwu.edu!sforslev From: sforslev@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Susanne Forslev) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Zontar? Message-ID: <1992Mar28.014117.29107@casbah.acns.nwu.edu> Date: 28 Mar 92 01:41:17 GMT References: <92079.163105STDNTFE9@LMUACAD.BITNET> <1992Mar20.134733.9594@news.nd.edu> <1992Mar23.214722.16810@visix.com> <1992Mar27.003222.7642@sdf.lonestar.org> Distribution: na Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois Lines: 9 Along with Zontar coming from a science fiction movie, has anyone seen Godzilla vs Monster Zero? The flying saucers in that one look just like the pictures of the Gulf Breeze saucers. Sue Forslev +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | When the going gets weird, the weird turns pro -- Raoul Duke +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!convex!constellation!phyast!srl From: srl@phyast.nhn.uoknor.edu (Steve Levengood) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: I WAS CAPTURED BY SPACE ALIENS Keywords: alien Message-ID: Date: 28 Mar 92 20:12:44 GMT Sender: usenet@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu (Nets) Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA Lines: 13 I WAS CAPTURED BY SPACE ALIENS I was captured by space aliens last week. They wanted a specimen to take back to their homeworld. They wanted to be sure that I met certain criteria. They tested me. The first test was to ascertain my pain tolerence. They strapped me down and made me listen to Donny and Marie Osmond records. After twelve minutes I began to scream. They stopped the test. I had passed. The next test was to discover how quickly I could loose consciousness. They made me watch a George Bush speech. I fell asleep in about four minutes. I had passed. Next they wanted to see how intelligent I was. They made me read this entire news group. I believed everything. They let me go. Path: ns-mx!uunet!world!kibo From: kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: HUGE SAUSAGE!! Message-ID: Date: 29 Mar 92 01:12:10 GMT References: <1992Mar28.201914.15808@news.nd.edu> Organization: A room filled with typography (in Boston's Back Bay) Lines: 8 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5111 alt.religion.kibology:1356 In article <1992Mar28.201914.15808@news.nd.edu> Peri E. Arnold.1.ndedu (Peri E. Arnold) writes: >In article , parryh@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (Howell Parry) writes: [...] Parry Arnold, if you spelled your name the official way we would welcome you into the Parry Conspiracy. We have taken over the planet. -- j"k"p Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!robobar!gtoal From: gtoal@robobar.co.uk (Graham Toal "gtoal@vangogh.cs.berkeley.edu") Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: So You Think You're a Clone, Eh? Keywords: Sorry, it was too good to pass up! Message-ID: <1992Mar27.234445.8548@robobar.co.uk> Date: 27 Mar 92 23:44:45 GMT References: <1992Mar25.170717.20355@meaddata.com> Organization: Robobar Ltd., Perivale, Middx., ENGLAND. Lines: 11 In article <1992Mar25.170717.20355@meaddata.com> dougr@meaddata.com (Doug Ritter) writes: >"I Think I'm a Clone Now" >words by W.A. Yankovic I'm have going round the back of my mind the line "You're never alone... when you're a clone". If that wasn't Weird Al, who was it? G -- Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew From: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: terraforming Message-ID: Date: 29 Mar 92 05:02:41 GMT References: Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 44 bmb@bluemoon.rn.com writes: I have, for some time, thought that terraforming was a waste of time and energy. the energy requirments just for a conversion of mars' atmosphere are in the neiborhood of 10^23 calories. ... well, there may be alternative methods to make Mars more hospitable that become available at a later date. (We still have to get people there at all...) Perhaps (as others have suggested) some organism, or other mechanism. Some clever, efficient method may become known only after further exploration of the planet itself. (It also depends on one's criteria for "terraforming" - what you're willing to designate an "acceptable environment". It might entail altering flora and fauna to suit the environment, and changing the environment only somewhat, rather than full-scale make-it- just-like-earthing.) for that energy ;you could build enough O'niel type space colonies to have many times mar's availabe surface area. I fail to understand this fascination with living on planets. ... planets have raw materials that a space-colony does not. (To create L-5-like colonies, for instance, requires a massive mining presence on the moon.) If an O'Neil colony is to manufacture anything even after it is set up (perhaps to to repay the cost of setting the colony up -- O'Neil colonies require massive up-front expenditures), it must import raw materials to do that too. For all that effort, it might be more cost-effective to simply place the colony on the moon (not as much fun, though... :-) Why climb bacck down into a gravity well after spending so much ingenuity getting out? ... 'cause that's where the raw materials are. Also, Mars's gravity well is significantly smaller than Earth's. I would say further that there is a certain psychological advantage to having dirt under your feet, even red dirt (I'm from NC, so I'm used to red dirt! :-). If you're asking people to go and live someplace far away, such things have to be considered. Charles Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ucselx!petunia!cindy!wcrane From: wcrane@ecst.csuchico.edu (Walter Joseph Crane) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Subject: Radio Re-Broadcast with John Lear & Bob Extler. Message-ID: <1992Mar28.233133.2403@ecst.csuchico.edu> Date: 28 Mar 92 23:31:33 GMT Sender: news@ecst.csuchico.edu (no news is good news) Distribution: usa Organization: California State University, Chico Lines: 41 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5114 sci.space:28496 sci.skeptic:22203 alt.paranormal:4700 Nntp-Posting-Host: cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu I was listening to a radio program last night/morning(3/27/92) and it was a call-in show. I believe the hosts name was Art Bell? He was interviewing two guys you all are probably familiar with named John Lear (I think) and Bob Extler? It was 4+ hours that will be rebroadcasted probably real soon. It was through the CBC network. In Las Vegas 383-8255, and 1-800-338-8255. Other Numbers were 702-385-7214, and first time callers 702-385-7213. The show originates out of Las Vegas, and it is nation wide. It was all news to me and very facinating. Some of the things mentioned....... Element 115. Gravity Amplifer. Aliens/E.T. Space Crafts. Materials Used. Level on a Craft. Gravity Propulsion. MJ-12 22 missing top scientist. Melting of a Antenna in Mass.?(I think) Location as to where they are from. Politics Test sights Piramids Time travel That's all I can remember since it was very late. I would Highly suggest to record the program. I'll try to record the audio of the radio to my VCR (camera mode). o ---==={ The Amazing Walt-o-man }===--- o 5L wcrane@cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu 5L ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// / " Leaders Leave Last, Fools Flee First. " The Amazing Walt-o-man / ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!umeecs!sparky.eecs.umich.edu!baillod From: baillod@sparky.eecs.umich.edu (Brad Baillod) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: HUGE SAUSAGE!!! Message-ID: <1992Mar28.232503.17937@zip.eecs.umich.edu> Date: 28 Mar 92 23:25:03 GMT References: Sender: news@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Mr. News) Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor Lines: 27 HUGE SAUSAGE!!! HUGE SAUSAGE!!! -- Brad Baillod baillod@eecs.umich.edu Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew From: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Xeroxing circles in the fields? Message-ID: Date: 29 Mar 92 05:35:44 GMT References: <1992Mar23.140029.1@fnalc.fnal.gov> Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 13 Hi, Wouldn't your scheme lead to rather large side-effects (i.e. electrical discharges -- lighting?) I don't recall any descriptions (of the people who have been at sites during the time when circles are being formed) that saw such. The electrical properties of a given area of ground are not uniform (or at least not uniform when you're talking about that much charge), and I suspect you'd have some discharge-effects (and perhaps even fires). Keep thinking, though; your mind works in intereting ways! Charles Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!msuinfo!uchinews!ellis!thf2 From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank) Newsgroups: alt.religion.kibology,alt.alien.visitors,rec.arts.tv,alt.revisionism Subject: Re: HUGE SAUSAGE!! Message-ID: <1992Mar28.175209.15181@midway.uchicago.edu> Date: 28 Mar 92 17:52:09 GMT References: <1992Mar27.021617.15599@math.ucla.edu> Sender: news@uchinews.uchicago.edu (News System) Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations Lines: 29 Xref: ns-mx alt.religion.kibology:1359 alt.alien.visitors:5117 rec.arts.tv:43491 In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >In article <1992Mar27.021617.15599@math.ucla.edu> sherman@oak.math.ucla.edu (The Ahkond of Swat) writes: >>In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>I'd like to point out that I have no reason to suspect that I may >>>be related to Howell. >> >>What about Lovey? Now that I think of it, if you're related to any >>of those castaways, it's probably Gilligan. > >Actually, I played The Professor. One day I invented this ersatz >Minoxodil made from coconuts using my nuclear accelerator (made from >bamboo and seaweed) but Gilligan goofed it up and when we smeared it on >the Cap'n it turned him into Cap'n Crunch and he went around coating >everything with sugar. > >Also, I played Martin Landau in "The Harlem Globetrotters on Gilligan's >Island", in which they played basketball against robots for the fate of >the world. > -- K. The Wall Street Journal reports that there's going to be a remake of Gilligan's Island in the next TV season featuring the only six survivors from an accidental nuclear war. The title is "Woops!" I am not making this up. -- Ted Frank + "There are different Klans, just like there are different 1307 E 60 St, #109 + fraternities in college." -- David Duke/// "This is what U o' C Law Skool + a fraternity is about, we take people and put them in Chi, IL 60637 + one room and say 'You will become friends!'" -- AH Betts Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!rutgers!ub!acsu.buffalo.edu!majcher From: majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,misc.test,alt.exploding.kibo,alt.religion.kibology,alt.personals,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again... Message-ID: <1992Mar28.192924.17253@acsu.buffalo.edu> Date: 28 Mar 92 19:29:24 GMT References: <1992Mar25.045020.24009@gozer.mv.com> <1992Mar27.033812.25302@acsu.buffalo.edu> <1992Mar28.022219.25601@athena.mit.edu> Sender: usenet@acsu.buffalo.edu Organization: UB Lines: 79 Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2522 misc.test:14391 alt.exploding.kibo:96 alt.religion.kibology:1362 alt.personals:26428 alt.alien.visitors:5118 Nntp-Posting-Host: lictor.acsu.buffalo.edu sramming@athena.mit.edu (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes: >In article <1992Mar27.033812.25302@acsu.buffalo.edu> majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) writes: >>klm@gozer.mv.com (Kevin L. McBride) writes: >> >>>kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >> >>>> In article <1992Mar25.012450.7508@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes: >>>> >In article <1992Mar20.031338.3813@nntp.uoregon.edu>, rtaylor@cie.uoregon.edu (Russ Taylor) writes: >>>> >> In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed] >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS. >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper. >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH. I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD STOP IT. >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*. >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but only after you >>>> >> added your ten cents? A thousand-degree flame on you! >>>> >> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!) >>>> >> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth? >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width. >> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it? >>>> >because he made a paste of it >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it. >> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor >>>> >he never was a sailor >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer. >> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE? PLEASE EXERCISE >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT. >> >>>Okay. >> >> >> Come on guys, I think he means it. Don't follow up to this. >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious. >Go ahead and follow up. >Or kill me. >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess. >>-- >>majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu | The meek shall inherit the earth, >>v061regm@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu | and the wise keep moving on... >>Rev. M @P.O. Box 156 O |----------------------------------------- >> Amherst, NY 14226 + |Ask me about the Secret Society! Shhhh! >~ibo >-- >sramming@athena.mit.edu >M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming 305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge MA 02139 >( the nonibo -ibo ) (617) 225-9887 [home] (617) 253-7942 [office] No! Don't follow up to this! Whatever you do, _don't_ press that "f" button! It's a sin! It's a sin! This is against the gods of bandwidth and all that is wholly! See what you do! You waste and waste and waste until the unthinkable happens! Nay, until the _unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up! My _GOD_! How can you even think it! How can you dream it and still remain sane?!?!? How can it be?!?!?!?! Gah!!!! -- majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu | The meek shall inherit the earth, v061regm@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu | and the wise keep moving on... Rev. M @P.O. Box 156 O |----------------------------------------- Amherst, NY 14226 + |Ask me about the Secret Society! Shhhh! Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!pacbell.com!att!rutgers!news.cs.indiana.edu!news.nd.edu!Peri E. Arnold.1.ndedu From: Peri E. Arnold.1.ndedu (Peri E. Arnold) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: HUGE SAUSAGE!! Message-ID: <1992Mar28.201914.15808@news.nd.edu> Date: 28 Mar 92 20:19:14 GMT References: Sender: news@news.nd.edu (USENET News System) Organization: University of Notre Dame Lines: 35 In article , parryh@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (Howell Parry) writes: > > I was driving home from uni last year, when suddenly, out of the sky > came a huge sausage!!! > It landed in front of my car, and forced me to stop. > Some small maggot-like creatures emerged from the sausage, and grabbed me > out of the car. > They took me inside the sausage. It was all dark and smelled of rotting meat. > There was a whirring sound, and suddenly, the sausage opened up and I was on > an alien planet, where all the inhabitants were sausages! > They all wobbled around, and had big smiles on their faces..... > They took me to a hut, and gave me a bowl of cornflakes. > Suddenly, there was another whirring sound, and before I knew it, I was parked > in my car at the side of the road, back on Earth. > > Can anyone explain this? Has anyone else had a similar experience? > Are there really sausages in space? > > -Howell Parry. > > E-mail: parryh@uk.ac.man.cs.p4 > > -- > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ! Howell Parry. 2nd yr Computer Science and Mathematics, ! > ! Manchester Uni, Uk ! > ! E-mail: parryh@uk.ac.man.cs.p4 ! > > You have had an unusual experience but one that is not unheard of among people with an affinity for sausages. Of course there are sausages in space y you fool. Didn't you see and smell them? Weren't you in one? The real you fail to ask is, what kind of sausage was it that you visited? Was it pork? Was it veal? Was it a kosher sausage? Space voyagers need to be more observant than you were on your first journey. Next time, keep your eyes open, and good eating. Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!psinntp!balltown!connolly From: connolly@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (Ian Connolly) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Abducted while driving? Message-ID: <1992Mar29.010915.13190@cabot.balltown.cma.COM> Date: 29 Mar 92 01:09:15 GMT References: <1992Mar26.073004.1@fnalna.fnal.gov> <203995@unix.cis.pitt.edu> Organization: New York State Institute for Sebastian Cabot Studies Lines: 6 In article <203995@unix.cis.pitt.edu> leping@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Leping N Zha) writes: >Did anyone experienced such missing time during driving smelled sulphur >in the air after it happened (as my whole family did two years ago >on the DC-Baltimore expressway)? ! This frequently happens on the NJ Turnpike near the refineries. Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!decwrl!access.usask.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!bison!draco!orion!stimpsn From: stimpsn@bbs.orion.bison.mb.ca (Gary Stimpson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Show on TV. Message-ID: Date: 29 Mar 92 08:36:07 GMT Sender: bbs@orion.bison.mb.ca (BBS Account) Organization: The Orion Unix System [A/UX 2.0.1], Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Lines: 10 Did anybody watch `Sightings: UFO's' on TV the other day? Not a bad show, there were even some MUFON people on there! Hmm.. tonight they showed `Sightings: Ghosts' but that dosen't belong in this newsgroup! Two interesting shows though! Hope some people got to see them. OH MY GOODNESS! Something's coming up behind me!!!! LDSA{PSDas[ -- stimpsn@bbs.orion.bison.mb.ca (Gary Stimpson) The Orion Unix System [A/UX 2.0.1], Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!noc.MR.NET!uc.msc.edu!uh.msc.edu!eab From: eab@uh.msc.edu (Edward Bertsch) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: Radio Re-Broadcast with John Lear & Bob Extler. Message-ID: <1992Mar29.133511.4727@uc.msc.edu> Date: 29 Mar 92 13:35:11 GMT References: <1992Mar28.233133.2403@ecst.csuchico.edu> Sender: netnews@uc.msc.edu (Network News) Distribution: usa Organization: Minnesota Supercomputer Center Lines: 65 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5122 sci.space:28505 sci.skeptic:22209 alt.paranormal:4701 In article <1992Mar28.233133.2403@ecst.csuchico.edu>, wcrane@ecst.csuchico.edu (Walter Joseph Crane) writes: |> |> I was listening to a radio program last night/morning(3/27/92) and it was a |> call-in show. I believe the hosts name was Art Bell? He was interviewing two |> guys you all are probably familiar with named John Lear (I think) and Bob |> Extler? It was 4+ hours that will be rebroadcasted probably real soon. It was |> through the CBC network. In Las Vegas 383-8255, and 1-800-338-8255. Other |> Numbers were 702-385-7214, and first time callers 702-385-7213. The show |> originates out of Las Vegas, and it is nation wide. It was all news to me and |> very facinating. |> Some of the things mentioned....... |> |> Element 115. so what is this? |> Gravity Amplifer. and this?? |> Aliens/E.T. |> Space Crafts. |> Materials Used. |> Level on a Craft. |> Gravity Propulsion. |> MJ-12 |> 22 missing top scientist. which ones? |> Melting of a Antenna in Mass.?(I think) |> Location as to where they are from. |> Politics |> Test sights |> Piramids Pyramids? |> Time travel |> |> That's all I can remember since it was very late. |> I would Highly suggest to record the program. |> I'll try to record the audio of the radio to my VCR (camera mode). |> |> |> |> o ---==={ The Amazing Walt-o-man }===--- o |> 5L wcrane@cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu 5L |> ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// |> / " Leaders Leave Last, Fools Flee First. " The Amazing Walt-o-man / |> ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// |> |> |> |> |> -- Edward A. Bertsch (eab@msc.edu) Minnesota Supercomputer Center, Inc. Operations/User Services 1200 Washington Avenue South (612) 626-1571 work Minneapolis, Minnesota 55415 (612) 645-0168 voice mail "Read _MY_ lips: I won't be voting for Bush in 1992" Path: ns-mx!uunet!seas.smu.edu!utacfd.uta.edu!trsvax!rwsys!sdf!hideo From: hideo@sdf.lonestar.org (David Carter) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Abducted while driving? Message-ID: <1992Mar28.070941.1574@sdf.lonestar.org> Date: 28 Mar 92 07:09:41 GMT References: <1992Mar26.073004.1@fnalna.fnal.gov> <203995@unix.cis.pitt.edu> Organization: sdf Public Access UNIX, Dallas--unrestricted free shell access Lines: 8 I was abducted while skiing, and when I "came to" I was inexpilcably soaking in a hot tub back at the lodge with my underwear on my head. Eerie. David Carter : URANUS: not truly a place aka Hideo Gump : where the Sun don't shine, Dallas, Texas USA : but certainly a place where hideo@sdf.lonestar.org : the Sun shines dimly! Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!kcbbs!kc From: Robert_Sutton@kcbbs.gen.nz (Robert Sutton) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: The Talmud as Given by Judas Iscario Message-ID: <26177.889219146@kcbbs.gen.nz> Date: 29 Mar 92 07:16:17 GMT References: <0+bjz8-sheaffer@netcom.com> Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand Lines: 7 Sheaffer@netcom.com 26 March 92 (17.55.54) types- >>The making of the Messiah said to be to Christianity what The Satanic >>Verses are to Islam Does that mean you will be/have purused the costs for bodyguards?. P.S.-Has the UFO Verdict changed? Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!munnari.oz.au!bruce!trlluna!titan!cetra!lightw From: lightw@cetra.trl.OZ.AU (Liron Lightwood) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: terraforming Message-ID: <1992Mar30.014154.8955@trl.oz.au> Date: 30 Mar 92 01:41:54 GMT References: <1992Mar18.195012.23464@pellns.alleg.edu> <1992Mar22.053715.11567@eskimo.celestial.com> Sender: news@trl.oz.au (USENET News System) Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia Lines: 17 delisle@eskimo.celestial.com (Ben Delisle) writes: > One possible way that although uses a lot of energy, Its costs are >not as high as others: push astroides in to a orbital vecter that will >take it in a collision path to the target world. the resultant >collision may free gasses into the asmosphere and add mass. Sounds good.... as long as you don't hit the wrong planet :-) " I said the FOUNTR planet you moron! Can't you tell a difference between a 3 and a 4? " Liron Lightwood Internet : r.lightwood@trl.oz.au Telecom Research Laboratories Phone : +61 3 253 6535 770 Blackburn Road Snail : P.O. Box 249 Clayton 3168 Australia Clayton Vic. 3168 Australia Disclaimer : My views are not my company's? Path: ns-mx!uunet!math.fu-berlin.de!news.netmbx.de!zelator!leo From: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de (Stefan Hartmann) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Show on TV. Message-ID: Date: 30 Mar 92 00:47:35 GMT References: Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System Lines: 38 In stimpsn@bbs.orion.bison.mb.ca (Gary Stimpson) writes: >Did anybody watch `Sightings: UFO's' on TV the other day? Not a bad show, >there were even some MUFON people on there! Hmm.. tonight they showed >`Sightings: Ghosts' but that dosen't belong in this newsgroup! Two >interesting shows though! Hope some people got to see them. > >OH MY GOODNESS! Something's coming up behind me!!!! LDSA{PSDas[ >-- >stimpsn@bbs.orion.bison.mb.ca (Gary Stimpson) >The Orion Unix System [A/UX 2.0.1], Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Hi, what kind of show was it ? What channel was it on ? Is it also available on CNN ? This is the only American channel, we get over in Germany in our cable system ! Please could somebody post anouncement of upcoming UFO-reports on TV, so that everybody who can get the channel doesn't miss this event ? P.S.: I'm still looking for good video-tapes about UFO-sightings to digitize them and place them at the new UFO-pics-FTP-site at phoenix.oulu.fi (130.231.240.17). If anybody knows of a good source, please let me know ! Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for Decentral Energy Research email to: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de -- ******************************************************************************* * Stefan Hartmann This is how to contact me: * * EMAIL: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de * * Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79 * ******************************************************************************* Path: ns-mx!uunet!math.fu-berlin.de!news.netmbx.de!zelator!leo From: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de (Stefan Hartmann) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic,sci.space Subject: Color UFO-pics soon at UFO-FTP-site ! Summary: ufo Keywords: ufo Message-ID: Date: 30 Mar 92 01:00:39 GMT Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System Lines: 29 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5127 alt.paranormal:4704 sci.skeptic:22221 sci.space:28521 Hi, today a friend of mine came to me with the book from Ed Walters: UFOs,es gibt sie doch ! ISBN: 2-426-26463-3 This is the book about the UFO-sightings from Ed Walters from Pensocola,FL in the Gulf Breeze region.(USA) The pictures inside the book are gorgious ! Full color pics of several simular UFOs which look like the "crown"-"ballon"-type. I did scan them today and will make them soon available in color-GIF format at the UFO-pics-FTP-site at phoenix.oulu.fi (130.231.240.17). Also my friend has brought over for scanning the book by Maria Popovich: "UFO-Glasnost" There is inside the photo of an alien humanoid, which should have been made from the Roswell UFO-crash in 1947. I will also upload this pic soon in GIF-format. Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for Decentral Energy Research email to: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de -- ******************************************************************************* * Stefan Hartmann This is how to contact me: * * EMAIL: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de * * Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79 * ******************************************************************************* Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!news.ysu.edu!ysub!psuvm!lmuacad!stdntfe9 From: STDNTFE9@LMUACAD.BITNET Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Zontar again Message-ID: <92089.182302STDNTFE9@LMUACAD.BITNET> Date: 30 Mar 92 01:23:02 GMT Organization: LOYOLA MARYMOUNT UNIV - CENTER FOR ACADEMIC COMPUTING Lines: 7 I found the source of this Zontar talk. It's a pretty poor documentary film in which this psychic enters a trance and talks to the space operator/Zontar righ t there on the miracle of film. There's also an old Englishman who explains ho w Jeses visited him in a cigar-shaped craft. Has anyone else seen this film? What's it called? Sivle Nora Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!infopiz!lupine!motcsd!apple!portal!cup.portal.com!Don_-_Showen From: Don_-_Showen@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: The Pleiadians: Awakening Message-ID: <56549@cup.portal.com> Date: 29 Mar 92 05:59:22 GMT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 301 Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:9916 alt.alien.visitors:5129 sci.skeptic:22227 AWAKENING The Pleiadians Good evening. We are your ancient family. We come from the star system The Pleiades. We know ourselves as The Pleiadians and we, eons ago, millions of years ago, were your relatives. When your Earth sphere, Terra, was being formed, there were many who expressed an interest to be pioneers and to go to a new area to learn to experience, to formulate, to create. That was the opportunity and many of our dearly beloved Pleiadians signed on. The Pleiadian culture is ancient. [It] was seeded from another universe, a universe of love, a universe that moved back to All That Is. The Pleiadians seeded the Pleiadian star system within this universe before the Earth's sphere transfer became available. We formed a tremendous society. We operate with love. We operate with ideas and ideals that you are totally unfamiliar with. Our technology in your terms would be somewhat similar. We are, in your terms, computerized. We like that term because it represents an overall picture of our abilities. The picture actually only represents one per cent of what we are capable of doing. However, from your point of view, think of us as a computerized society. We are collective energy. We are not of your dimension. The star system of the Pleiades has seven stars, six of which we believe, you may see from the naked eye. There are many planets and we are millions upon millions of miles from your system though we have transportation that can bring us here very quickly. We have many modes of transportation. Mostly we come in starships. Often mother ships. The mother ships are gigantic, one of your miles, housing thousands. [They are] elongated, one of our fashions, [and] would take, in your terms, days to transport itself here. We have disc ships which can be here quickly, within portions of your day. We have difficulty at times translating your time system, your hours, your minutes, into what is relative to our system, perhaps less than one quarter of your day. We are an advanced civilization. Our technology is ancient because it is coming from another universe that has evolved back to First Cause. We chose not to evolve back to First Cause but to go on out of love, to assist the growth of this universe. We were allowed to bring that knowing with us because our technological development is totally in line with the First Cause and we would never operate in any fashion that did not support the love and development of humanity of all creatures in all of this universe. So we were allowed to be here. We were welcomed. We are the ambassadors, in this star area, this universe, from another universe. We are working with many, not just with Terra, the Earth. We are working in other solar systems, with other planetary creatures, with other creations. This universe is a vast and new experiment. Different options, we like that word, are being attempted here. Free will reigns in this universe. On Terra you think you have free will but you do not really understand what free will is. Free will encompasses the complete idea that whatever it is that you are wanting you may have. And your sole point in choosing to partake in the planetary system within this universe that has free will was so that you may do whatever it is that you wish. Terra was formed with specific intents in mind. It was formed to be a center for this solar system, a trade center, a launching pad for ideas. Much like, as different portions of your globe have developed, and different port cities, or areas came into fashion and represented trends, cultural advancements, exchanges of ideas at different points in time, and then fell by the wayside. The ideal of Terra's role would be the jewel within the universe for its beauty physically to the eye, and this physical beauty would be beheld not just in one dimension but in many dimensions. That it would be a center of tremendous beauty, of tremendous exchange, of freedom, of ideas and beauty and love and peoples, humanities, creatures from all of this universe and star system ideally would have come here and exchanged what it is they had, as goods would be exchanged in the marketplace, with others. Now, as you know, that has not taken place. Fortunately that is changing. Unfortunately, eons in your past, events occurred that were not anticipated, for when one deals with free will one never knows. There are no expectations with free will, just intentions and hopes. And even intentions sometimes may be transmuted. Now, that was the original intention. Then eons ago, millions of years ago, there was a disruptive force that became quite pronounced in this area of creation, experimenting as it would be, with another form of being. This experimenting was not evil, it was just another point of view. We speak in very neutral terms so as not to lay blame or prejudice on anyone. This disruptive force effected Terra greatly. It threw the cosmic forces, the hierarchies into vast confusion. And it has been all these eons, these millions of years that this has been attempted to be righted. Now, through the last thousands of years we have been assisting the higher spiritual forces, those from the First Cause. Our assistance we freely gave because original family members came to this experiment of Terra and then when those disruptive energies became prevalent and changed the intent of what Terra would be we lost contact with our family members. It was very sad for us, for we had never anticipated this loss. Being that we as Pleiadians are highly evolved and of great knowing and great connectedness with the First Cause, we knew that this was a temporary loss of family members, though temporary in our terms was millions of years. And though the initial shock was felt literally throughout the universe and universes, we formulated a plan and knew that there would be a time when we would be reunited. We are your family members who lost contact with you eons ago. We have come to retrieve you. We have come to reestablish contact, to assist you, so that you can now reunite with us, liberate yourselves and choose to come back to the Pleiades or to stay here on Terra and raise the vibration and allow Terra to become what it was originally planned to become, the international exchange, intergalactic international trade exchange center for the universe. Now, as you may well know, that upon looking at your planet you can shake your head and say, goodness, we have ventured far from our original goal. And, indeed, that is true, you have. However, at this time events are manifesting on your planet that are about to change all of that. It was known eons ago that there would be a point where the energies would be ripe for contact, for adjustments, for receiving energy for realignment. It was hoped that that juncture would be reached through the opening of the free will bodies, by their own choice, through love. That is not the case. You have reached critical times. It began peaking 30, 40 years ago, and the activities that have been occurring on this sphere have been of grave concern to all within your universe. The lack of love for humanity, for one another on this planet. Separations of self from self. The missing of the message that you are all one, that you are all connected, that what one does affects the other. Know that there are many millions on the planet out of the billions, who are awakened, who are moving toward the enlightenment, moving towards the acknowledgement of the First Creator, in whatever minuscule way they can conceive of this vast entity. What is happening on your planet at this time is that the energy of the First Creator, is being presented to the planet as a whole. When we say "as a whole", there are no groupings that would be select over others. The opportunities exist for everyone. It is the individual humanity's choice to acknowledge the opportunity that presents itself. [The awakened ones will be] assigned, so to speak, to awaken someone. First Creator energy is now being made available to the planet, on a vast level, vast. It's encircling the sphere. Light frequency is bombarding your planet, though only those who know how to use this energy can feel it. It is as if an invisible force is in your lives and if you are not aware of this invisible force, you will not see it. Now, if the awakeners approach the awakenees with love, with intent of service, with intent of changing the planetary potential, the planetary history, and also are willing to bond unconditionally with the awakenee, it will be successful. In most cases, those that need now to be awakened are working about this in their dream state and they are in a state of confusion in their waking world and so they are welcoming something that will give them greater power and direction. The awakenees will need guidance for a short amount of time because of the energy that is available [but] the knowings will happen very quickly, then they, too, [will awaken and empower others]. The more members, the greater members of humanity that are in knowing, the easier the times ahead will be. We are working, sitting at the edges of our seats. When we say "our", we mean our beings, the star individuals, the star families, the spirit guides, the ascended masters, the callers from the great cause, the First Cause. There are many here. The skies, the atmospheres are full, so to speak, of who we are keeping Terra in force, keeping it alive and vibrant, glowing, and also respecting your free will at the same time. That is why we say the awakenings are so important at this time. They are of prime concern. Individual awakenings. Word of mouth. It is the best way of accomplishing what it is that needs to be accomplished. Word of mouth. Books are fine. Tapings are fine. But one individual loving another individual liberates, frees. And that individual goes off and creates and effects many others. That is how the process will occur, as we see it. We stated earlier that Terra is a free will district along with the entire universe, however, there is a code of honor that exists along with free will. And that code of honor represents the respect for life. All of life. The respect, and the commitment to no violation of life. The honoring of life is paramount, and allowing that life. Now, millions upon millions of years ago when the disruptive forces came in and changed all of that, free will was granted still and we stepped back, and saw and watched, and knew that there would be a time when all of this would come to an apex, as it would be said when the changes could be made. Disruptive forces have come again. This time they will not succeed. However, the energy is of great influence on the planet at this time because of the technological development and the extent of this technological influence throughout the planet. We ask that each person individually speak to another. At this point very powerful individuals are being awakened. Those individuals who effect other people, who influence other people are those that are awakening at this time, and are being awakened by those who made agreements, contracts eons ago to perform this service. We see that there will be changes geographically, great changes. Because the changes represent the most benevolent way of realignment. If there were to be great destructions, and there will be some destructions along the lines of warrings, if that were to be the prevalent case upon the entire sphere, it would effect the cosmos so greatly, that in this case it cannot be allowed. The changes that will happen on the surface of Terra are not definite. They will not be definite until they occur, until energy peaks. The energy will be peaking partially through what's happening on the globe, also through planetary and cosmic influences. The closer you may move towards the misuse of the technology, then of course, Mother Earth, a living, viable, breathing entity, would shift itself rather than destroy itself. [The] shifts will be of a healing nature, much as the ill person may experience the tremendous fevers and burn and sweat and shake and then heal themselves. If Mother Earth did not shift herself and the misuse of technology would be [a] prevalent paradigm, do you know what would occur? It would be the destruction of the universe. We do not wish to be annihilated and misuse of your technology on your planet could annihilate a universe. Contemplate on what we are speaking for it is profound. Many of you are looking for blacks and whites and the universe exists in gray areas. It is not the way you think it is. There is life teeming everywhere that you cannot see. There are many dimensions, there are many forms of beings. What happens in your dimension would effect us all because the building blocks of the universe, of the cosmos are connected. The atoms, the elements are all one. They are universal. Universal tools, so to speak. And through the misuse of one, in one segmented area, it would effect many others. So that is why we say, we are tuning Mother Earth to this knowing. Mother Earth knows this potential happening and would shift herself when the time and the danger becomes great. Understand that all of these changes are contingent upon the awakenings. If the awakenings happen very quickly and those within the governments, within the arms industries, those within the publishing, communicative areas, television, newspaper, movies, [if] those influential people on the planet are awakened quickly, all could shift. Mother Earth will do whatever is necessary to realign for her own survival. We are saying that if your intention is to step into the times ahead with joy, and experience, and be a partaker, a conscious partaker of the movement that the planet is selecting, then clearly think of what it is that you want, intend it, plan on it, and then trust that the part of the body located in the solar plexus will guide you along with the heart, to be where it is you need to be. If you are clear in your plannings, if you count on it, if you state it matter of factly, step into the knowing, not the thinking, but the knowing beyond all shadow of a doubt that you will be here in joy, in harmony, in happiness, in creativity, and in greater rejoicing of building the world, the civilization that you all desire, then so shall you be. Now, think of that for a few moments and choose what it is you want. Examine your hearts about what it is you are wanting. Throw by the wayside those things that are not important to you and put your energy, your thoughts, your hearts, into what it is that is most important. And do not, under any circumstances, be afraid of making a change, for change is going to occur whether you select it or not. So, by consciously selecting a change, whether it be a move, or what have you, [it] may be your method, your means, of moving into the times ahead. Do not resist change. Flow. It may come in the area of relationships, the breakings up or the coming togethers. It may come in the area of employment or a lack of. It may come in the area of sudden abundance presenting itself to you or lack of. All these events will motivate you towards something. We ask that you go inside, trust the feelings. Trust yourself. One of the most beneficial endeavors that you will be involved with is forming the extended families. With a networking of thirty to fifty people it will be very powerful. We also wish to speak of the availability of outside communication that is waiting to speak with many of you, that is speaking with each and every one of you though you do not acknowledge it. Vast numbers are willing to help. We ask you to examine your hearts, relinquish your fears, move towards what it is that will be most important. We suggest, and we will assist in these endeavors, that through your dream states you dare to dream of possibilities that seem outlandish. Awakened ones and those becoming awakened are being fed information through the dream state from the vast numbers and given so called ideas. Instigated information. Potentialities of abilities that are far beyond what is available now on the planet. And these will be fun things. These will be joyful things. These will be loving things, healing things, successful things. Play with your dream states and when one of these crazy ideas comes to you, grasp onto it like a hot air balloon and ride it for a while over the topography of yourself and see where it will take you. We ask you to approach these times with an open mind, a creative mind, a loving mind, to move into the self. To trust the self. Open the heart. To connect with humanity, to awaken the others. To be gentle with who you are. For your difficulties you will lay down as they are old clothes that you will no longer fit into or wear. Your aches, longings and difficulties can all be laid to rest as you move into this great new garment of being. Many will be petrified of moving into this time for much must be relinquished. Much must be changed and given up. However, we are saying that if the Earth itself did not change in its seasons, it would be pretty dreary indeed. And so fall needs to come and the winter set to rest so that in spring there may be regrowth, revitalization and awakenings. This is what you'll be experiencing. We have committed to guide you on this time. There are many who are here loving you, assisting you, doing whatever is necessary. Open your hearts. Open your eyes to what is coming. Do not be afraid. Know that you are surrounded by love and energy greater than at this point you can fathom. So great it is beyond your knowing, though a part of you knows that greatness and brings it to yourself. We trust that what we have said empowers you, enlightens you, guides you to who you need to be. Move forward. Move in love. Feel the connectedness of all that is. Look into the eyes of fellow humanity and see yourselves for you are there. Bless each one with the knowing that you have and your awakenings will be greater than you ever imagined. Call on us for assistance and we will come to you. We send you our blessings, our dearly beloved friends. THE SOURCE: The Pleiadians are a collective of extraterrestrials from the star system The Pleiades. The Pleiadian culture is ancient and was "seeded" from another universe of love long before Earth was created. They have formed a tremendous society which operates with love, with ideas and ideals that we are yet unfamiliar with. The Pleiadians call themselves our ancient family because many of us came here from The Pleiades to participate in the new experiment of Earth. The Pleiadians are now here as ambassadors from another universe to help Earth through her difficult transition from the third dimension to the fourth dimension and to assist each of us in our personal endeavors of awakening, remembering and knowing. THE CHANNEL: Barbara J. Marciniak has been a student of Metaphysics for many years. She gives credit to the Seth material channeled by Jane Roberts for her insight into the necessity for conscious, intentional creation of personal experience. Barbara travels extensively. In Athens, Greece in May of 1988, she began channeling The Pleiadians after she and a group of friends experienced a spiritual awakening in the Great Pyramid at Giza. Barbara currently lives in Raleigh, North Carolina where she gives class sessions and workshops with The Pleiadians. You may contact Barbara at Bold Connections Unlimited P. O. Box 6521 Raleigh, NC 27628 S U B S C R I B E T O CONNECTING LINK 1 Year Subscription (6 issues) is just $20 U.S. (12 issues) $35 Canada $32* (air) 12 issues $59* Overseas $44* (air) 12 issues $83* To order your subscription use order form in center of magazine Credit card orders only call (616) 891-0410 * U.S. Currency Connecting Link Magazine 9392 Whitneyville Rd. Alto, MI. 49302-9694 Copyrighted by Barbara Marciniak Reprinted from Connecting Link Magazine with permission. Posted by Don Showen Home 408-865-1768 Work 408-974-9544 Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!bronze!venus.iucf.indiana.edu!battin From: battin@venus.iucf.indiana.edu (L GENE BATTIN) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Abducted while driving? Message-ID: <1992Mar30.051517.4324@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> Date: 30 Mar 92 05:35:59 GMT References: <1992Mar24.074909.1@fnalna.fnal.gov> <4g=j0p+sheaffer@netcom.com> <1992Mar26.073004.1@fnalna.fnal.gov> Sender: news@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (USENET News System) Reply-To: battin@venus.iucf.indiana.edu Organization: VENUS.IUCF.INDIANA.EDU Lines: 102 News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4 Nntp-Posting-Host: venus.iucf.indiana.edu In article , sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes... >In article <1992Mar26.073004.1@fnalna.fnal.gov> >raph@fnalna.fnal.gov writes: >>*sigh* >>"Leading the witness"? >>I have heard that expression used in two contexts. In one context, it was >>used to imply that some hypnotist was "planting" suggestions in the subject >>under hypnosis. I DO assume that the person reading this was NOT in a deep >>and suggestible hypnotic state at the time he was reading my posting: if he >> > Well, since "hypnosis" is mostly bullsh*t, anyway, it doesn't really ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > matter. Read Dr. Robert Baker's book, "Some Call it Hypnosis"; there > is no evidence of a separate and distinct 'hypnotic state', but > people can be suceptible or suggestible at any time, if circumstances > are right. But I don't have the time, or the technical expertise in psychology to study this claim in depth! Lessee, since the "consensus" of opinion is that hypnosis is _real_, I guess I get to call the underlined statement an "extraordinary claim"? Right? Gee, when I _try_ to follow your rules, it don't seem to work so good! (BTW, I personally _agree_ with your conclusions, I just take umbrage at your inconsistent standards for skeptical inquiry.) > By saying in essence, "these things (numbers 1 through 5) > often happen to UFO abductees: did they happen to you?", you are > planting in the subject's mind the suggestion that he should search > his memory *very hard* for precisely these things. And if he > manages to convince himself that any of them are true, he now knows > (roughly speaking) what to report! > > I realize, of course, that this forum is *not* the right medium > for anyone to conduct such queries, and that Jim was not attempting > to formally do so. I point this out only to illustrate how > easily a person's memories of an incident can become "contaminated" > by extraneous data. > >>The other context during which "Leading the witness" is used is during >>criminal trials. By your comments I would have to conclude that you would >>discredit every rape victim if a doctor, policeman or lawyer questioned the >>witness about the attack! I am sure that some victims of a clear, violent >> > As a positive example of how to proceed, > > First, get the subject to fully state all memories (and get everything > on tape). ^^^^ should be videotape, see below > > Don't say things like, "abductees are often fatigued, were you fatigued?". > Instead, ask "how did you feel at the time?" If you get no useful reply, > ask "what was your energy level at this time? High or low?" > > Get the point??! :) Well, if the point is to ask questions in such a way as to guarantee that the "questionee" picks up no possible "clues" to indicate what the "preferred" answers are gonna be, I think your proposed example won't do. Even _animals_ are extremely good at picking up unconscious "hints". People are probably just as good, if not better. To avoid giving any hints, you really should get the questioning done in a blind manner, by someone who themselves has no idea what kind of data you think is significant. In the December, 1987 issue of OMNI magazine is a summary of Pennsylvania psychiatrist Martin T. Orne's "rules": "Hypnotists must not have any preconcieved ideas about the subject under discussion; they must have no contact with the subject prior to the session; and they must videotape the proceedings so that not only oral communication but also facial expressions can be reviewed." All of these constraints are obviously in place to control unconscious "cueing" as much as possible. [Of course, since Orne must believe that hypnosis is of some use in gathering data (otherwise, why care about "rules") he's just a "bullsh*tter", to use your words, right? :-) ] > > > > >-- > > Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com > > Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! > > "In the 1970's the world will undergo famines - hundreds of millions > of people are going to starve to death in spite of any crash programs > embarked upon now ... in 1985, when it is calculated [under the most > optimistic scenario] that the major die-back will be over, ..." > > Dr. Paul Ehrlich, "The Population Bomb," 1968 > Gene Battin battin@venus.iucf.indiana.edu no .sig yet. Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!bronze!venus.iucf.indiana.edu!battin From: battin@venus.iucf.indiana.edu (L GENE BATTIN) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 ! Message-ID: <1992Mar30.053642.5344@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> Date: 30 Mar 92 06:22:33 GMT References: <1992Mar10.204457.1045@visix.com> <1992Mar16.224559.4823@tc.fluke.COM> <16MAR199218013175@cc.weber.edu> <1992Mar26.212938.27474@tc.fluke.COM> Sender: news@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (USENET News System) Reply-To: battin@venus.iucf.indiana.edu Organization: VENUS.IUCF.INDIANA.EDU Lines: 58 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5131 alt.pagan:13888 alt.paranormal:4705 talk.religion.newage:9918 News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4 Nntp-Posting-Host: venus.iucf.indiana.edu In article <1992Mar26.212938.27474@tc.fluke.COM>, emery@tc.fluke.COM (John Emery) writes... >In article <16MAR199218013175@cc.weber.edu> >JTAN@cc.weber.edu writes: >>In article <1992Mar16.224559.4823@tc.fluke.COM>, >>emery@tc.fluke.COM (John Emery) writes... >>>in the heart of the instigator? If there were peace in the hearts of >>>people, then we wouldn't have external problems. There is something wrong >> >> Not necessarily. If we had Peace AND non-Peace in our hearts, >>then it would be possible for us to have external problems because >>the two are at odds with each other, and one must win out, even if >>only temporarily. As long as it's the non-Peace side that is in >>control, we will have external problems. > >But why is this non-peace there in the first place? What drives people >to hurt or want to hurt other whether through direct violence, words, >thoughts, or intentions. Something is wrong. Probably has to do with the fact that few people seem to get very good training in raising kids before going out and having a family. All these undesireable behavior patterns are learned at an early age, and probably get "hard-wired" into brains during early developement. After that, it's probably too late to take more than partially effective remedial measures. I think society is making some progress in remedying this, slowly. > >> >>Highest Love and Peace > >Yes. And I find it in the Lord Jesus who loves not only myself but all >who read these words. Religion is a temporary expedient; useful in helping form a good environment for raising kids who will become caring, loving adults (when handled carefully; it can also lead to all kinds of problems in their later life if not handled right), but, as society becomes more advanced scientifically, and specifically, as the sciences dealing with human psychology become more exact, this expedient will cease being necessary. > >>The Tan Man > >God bless and thanks for you comments, > >John >emery@tc.fluke.COM > >[please remember my slow newsfeed. Have patience] Gene Battin battin@venus.iucf.indiana.edu no .sig yet. Path: ns-mx!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!ub!galileo.cc.rochester.edu!rochester!cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!dh4j+ From: dh4j+@andrew.cmu.edu (David O Hunt) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,talk.religion.newage Subject: Re: The Pleiadians: Awakening Message-ID: Date: 30 Mar 92 06:17:00 GMT References: <56549@cup.portal.com> Organization: Masters student, Mechanical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Lines: 16 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5132 sci.skeptic:22230 talk.religion.newage:9919 In-Reply-To: <56549@cup.portal.com> WHAAAA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA!!!!!! Whoooo-WHEEEE! Thanks for the laughs - really needed them! Great fun, that! David Hunt - Graduate Slave | My mind is my own. | Towards both a Mechanical Engineering | So are my ideas & opinions. | Palestinian and Carnegie Mellon University | <<>> | Jewish homeland! ============================================================================ Email: dh4j@andrew.cmu.edu I think, therefore I am paid. (S. Harris) "You should be furious that polluters are threatening your great-great- grand children's lives!"---Iroquois chief speaking about the environment. Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!cpdw.enet.dec.com!rosch From: rosch@cpdw.enet.dec.com (Ray Rosch) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: The Pleiadians: Awakening Message-ID: <34873@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> Date: 30 Mar 92 15:39:40 GMT Sender: news@nntpd.lkg.dec.com Followup-To: talk.religion.newage Organization: The Beef Council Lines: 38 Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:9922 alt.alien.visitors:5133 sci.skeptic:22250 In article <56549@cup.portal.com>, Don_-_Showen@cup.portal.com writes... > >AWAKENING The Pleiadians > Good evening. We are your ancient family. We come from the star system >The Pleiades. We know ourselves as The Pleiadians and we, eons ago, millions >of years ago, were your relatives. ... GO BACK TO SLEEP: The Worcesterians Beware of the Pleiadians! There fake, phoney and owe it all to the Worcesterians from the planet A-1. Don't be taken in by their caramel, syrupy, sugar-coated, msg-laden message. If you are willing to grind your mind into ground protine-based terra animal bovine flesh you need us, not them. They are on the wrong channel. Seth was fired from a Worcesterian garden hose factory 3 eons ago and is still angry! Sure - save a few pennies and use Pleiadian sauce and what do you get? An imitation, second-best formula which tastes 'funny'! Besides - Worcesterians could care less about us all being one big star family - all we want is a fair retail markup! [Why do you think you humans are so greedy!] You know it took us eons to _build_ this market? First we had to mate with your proto-females - no easy task! Then we had to wait while you patiently became hunter-gatherers. After that we almost lost it when you discovered agriculture. [Everyone eating beans, barley etc.] Then happily some explorers let loose a few bovines in what was to become Texas [named, incidentally, after the biggest Worcesterian on the planet Bubba - a coincidence? NOT!] Then when things are starting to roll and our investment pays off there's this Cholestrol thing started by the Pleiadians to cut into our market share. Cholestrol is a Pleiadian conspiracy!!! We didn't do it. The whole thing about Dolphins - do you know what the early Pleiadians evolved into? Flipper! We Worcesterians still look like we always have - sort of like Santa Claus, Bambi and Barbara Bush - only thinner. **** Disclaimer: Opinions expressed do not in any way reflect those of my employer **** Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!watserv1!watdragon!watyew!jdnicoll From: jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: The Pleiades Needs Telescopes! (Re: The Pleiadians: Awakening) Message-ID: <1992Mar30.162009.4190@watdragon.waterloo.edu> Date: 30 Mar 92 16:20:09 GMT References: <56549@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@watdragon.waterloo.edu (USENET News System) Organization: University of Waterloo Lines: 20 Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:9923 alt.alien.visitors:5134 sci.skeptic:22252 In article <56549@cup.portal.com> Don_-_Showen@cup.portal.com writes: > Gibberish deleted The star system of the Pleiades has seven stars, six of which we >believe, you may see from the naked eye. Hee hee. Millions of years of residence, and the only members of that group of stars they know about are the ones *we* can see with the naked eye from Earth. Pretty poor astronomers, these Pleiadians. One could be excused for wondering whether they aren't just the delusion of a terran ignorant of astronomy... Clearly, there's a market in the Pleiades for glasses and telescopes. James Nicoll Is this stuff about another universe new to the Pleiadian mythos since the previous appearance? I seem to recall people pointing out the Pleiadians predate the Pleiades they claim to come from... Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!netcomsv!mork!anson From: anson@netcom.com (Anson Kennedy) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: B-2 UFO Message-ID: Date: 30 Mar 92 16:42:08 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 11 Does anyone have any info on Tony Gonsalves' investigation of the "B-2/UFO"? Thanks. -- Anson Kennedy Secretary of the Georgia Skeptics (but don't even THINK I speak for them!) "If I had been the Virgin Mary, I would have said 'No.'" -Margaret "Stevie" Smith (1902-1971) Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!netcomsv!mork!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Abducted while driving? Message-ID: Date: 30 Mar 92 15:27:51 GMT References: <1992Mar26.073004.1@fnalna.fnal.gov> <1992Mar30.051517.4324@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 119 In article <1992Mar30.051517.4324@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> battin@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes: >In article , >sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes... > >>In article <1992Mar26.073004.1@fnalna.fnal.gov> >>raph@fnalna.fnal.gov writes: > >>>*sigh* >>>"Leading the witness"? >>>I have heard that expression used in two contexts. In one context, it was >>>used to imply that some hypnotist was "planting" suggestions in the subject >>>under hypnosis. I DO assume that the person reading this was NOT in a deep >>>and suggestible hypnotic state at the time he was reading my posting: if he >>> >> Well, since "hypnosis" is mostly bullsh*t, anyway, it doesn't really > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> matter. Read Dr. Robert Baker's book, "Some Call it Hypnosis"; there >> is no evidence of a separate and distinct 'hypnotic state', but >> people can be suceptible or suggestible at any time, if circumstances >> are right. > >But I don't have the time, or the technical expertise in psychology to study >this claim in depth! Lessee, since the "consensus" of opinion is that >hypnosis is _real_, I guess I get to call the underlined statement an >"extraordinary claim"? Right? >Gee, when I _try_ to follow your rules, it don't seem to work so good! You call foul, and I do not see what it is in response to. If anything, I would think that hypnosis itself sounds more like an "extraordinary claim". A few points, a recent study (I do not remember where or by who) showed that subjucts under 'hypnosis' were not able to remember more or with greater clairity, rather the subjects just tended to want to please the hypnotist. I recall that the subjects were flashed an image of the back of a car, the license number was unreadable. And yet, most subjects could remember a number if asked often enough. I would think that for most things if you cannot remember it conciously, hypnosis will not bring it out. >(BTW, I personally _agree_ with your conclusions, I just take umbrage at >your inconsistent standards for skeptical inquiry.) > >> By saying in essence, "these things (numbers 1 through 5) >> often happen to UFO abductees: did they happen to you?", you are >> planting in the subject's mind the suggestion that he should search >> his memory *very hard* for precisely these things. And if he >> manages to convince himself that any of them are true, he now knows >> (roughly speaking) what to report! >> >> I realize, of course, that this forum is *not* the right medium >> for anyone to conduct such queries, and that Jim was not attempting >> to formally do so. I point this out only to illustrate how >> easily a person's memories of an incident can become "contaminated" >> by extraneous data. >> >>>The other context during which "Leading the witness" is used is during >>>criminal trials. By your comments I would have to conclude that you would >>>discredit every rape victim if a doctor, policeman or lawyer questioned the >>>witness about the attack! I am sure that some victims of a clear, violent >>> >> As a positive example of how to proceed, >> >> First, get the subject to fully state all memories (and get everything >> on tape). > ^^^^ should be videotape, see below >> >> Don't say things like, "abductees are often fatigued, were you fatigued?". >> Instead, ask "how did you feel at the time?" If you get no useful reply, >> ask "what was your energy level at this time? High or low?" >> >> Get the point??! :) > >Well, if the point is to ask questions in such a way as to guarantee that >the "questionee" picks up no possible "clues" to indicate what the >"preferred" answers are gonna be, I think your proposed example won't >do. Even _animals_ are extremely good at picking up unconscious >"hints". People are probably just as good, if not better. >To avoid giving any hints, you really should get the questioning done >in a blind manner, by someone who themselves has no idea what kind of >data you think is significant. In the December, 1987 issue of OMNI >magazine is a summary of Pennsylvania psychiatrist Martin T. Orne's >"rules": > "Hypnotists must not have any preconcieved ideas about the > subject under discussion; they must have no contact with the > subject prior to the session; and they must videotape the > proceedings so that not only oral communication but also > facial expressions can be reviewed." >All of these constraints are obviously in place to control unconscious >"cueing" as much as possible. Double blind hypnosis? Only if there was some evidence that subject under hypnosis can recall things they could not normally would this have any obvious benefit. But it might be a good way to test hypnosis as a tool. >[Of course, since Orne must believe that hypnosis is of some use in >gathering data (otherwise, why care about "rules") he's just a >"bullsh*tter", to use your words, right? :-) ] > >> >>-- >> >> Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com >> >> Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! >> >> "In the 1970's the world will undergo famines - hundreds of millions >> of people are going to starve to death in spite of any crash programs >> embarked upon now ... in 1985, when it is calculated [under the most >> optimistic scenario] that the major die-back will be over, ..." >> >> Dr. Paul Ehrlich, "The Population Bomb," 1968 >> > >Gene Battin >battin@venus.iucf.indiana.edu >no .sig yet. Rich payner@netcom.com Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!orion.oac.uci.edu!hepxvt.ps.uci.edu!cortese From: cortese@hepxvt.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) Newsgroups: alt.pagan,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 ! Keywords: Peace Clock Message-ID: <29D773E5.15006@orion.oac.uci.edu> Date: 30 Mar 92 20:02:45 GMT References: <29C66295.13101@orion.oac.uci.edu> <1992Mar18.024642.23904@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> <1992Mar26.213541.27635@tc.fluke.COM> Organization: University of California, Irvine Lines: 43 Xref: ns-mx alt.pagan:13901 talk.religion.newage:9925 alt.paranormal:4706 alt.alien.visitors:5137 Nntp-Posting-Host: hepxvt.ps.uci.edu In article <1992Mar26.213541.27635@tc.fluke.COM> emery@tc.fluke.COM (John Emery) writes: >In article <1992Mar18.024642.23904@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> elung@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Beth Lung) writes: >>In article <29C66295.13101@orion.oac.uci.edu> cortese@hepxvt.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes: >> >>In article <1992Mar16.224926.5133@tc.fluke.COM> emery@tc.fluke.COM (John Emery) writes: >> >>John>Please share what you are referring to, Janis. >> >>Janis>Oh, how about "In pain shall you bring forth children. You shall remain >>Janis>in subjugation to your husband all your life, but your wishes shall be >>Janis>for him." > >All this is a result of the curse because of our sin. However, in addition >to what you quote here another quote out of the Bible says that Jesus >redeemed us from the curse of the law by paying for our sins (Galatians 3:13). > >O Janis, why not rather repent and live. His arms are open to accept and >forgive. > I don't want to repent. I like living as I do, and if you think I'm going to go to hell, then tough shit for you. I'm not in the market to do what YOU think I should do. And just who the hell do youthink you are to cop such a superior and condescending attitude toward me: "My wonderful and perfect god is willing to forgive you for the legions of sins you have committed through your stupidity and perfidy." I happen to like my perfidy. And I really don't care whether his arms are open or not; I choose not to walk toward them. So you can take your snotty drown-me-with-marshmallows attitude and buzz off. You are welcome to ask questions and post your opinions on this group. But the minute you tell me that my life is fucked up because I don't live it like you do yours, you have stepped over the line. I've had enough of this garbage to last me a lifetime. Buzz off. Janis C. A shift-K sounds good right about now. I have heard every rant you could possibly throw at me a million times and don't feel like putting up with them again. If I were going to learn something NEW, I'd hang around in this thread. But when you've hread one zealous condescending xtian tell you that your spirituality is a crock, you've heard them all. Bye! Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!hellgate.utah.edu!fcom.cc.utah.edu!cc.weber.edu!jtan From: jtan@cc.weber.edu (THE TAN MAN) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 ! Message-ID: <30MAR199213053641@cc.weber.edu> Date: 30 Mar 92 20:05:00 GMT References: <1992Mar10.204457.1045@visix.com> <1992Mar16.224559.4823@tc.fluke.COM> <16MAR199218013175@cc.weber.edu> <1992Mar26.212938.27474@tc.fluke.COM> Sender: news@fcom.cc.utah.edu Reply-To: JTAN@cc.weber.edu Organization: Weber State University CS Department Lines: 40 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5138 alt.pagan:13902 alt.paranormal:4707 talk.religion.newage:9926 News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 In article <1992Mar26.212938.27474@tc.fluke.COM>, emery@tc.fluke.COM (John Emery) writes... >>>in the heart of the instigator? If there were peace in the hearts of >>>people, then we wouldn't have external problems. There is something wrong >> >> Not necessarily. If we had Peace AND non-Peace in our hearts, >>then it would be possible for us to have external problems because >>the two are at odds with each other, and one must win out, even if >>only temporarily. As long as it's the non-Peace side that is in >>control, we will have external problems. > >But why is this non-peace there in the first place? What drives people >to hurt or want to hurt other whether through direct violence, words, >thoughts, or intentions. Something is wrong. Because the Universe consists of what we simplify as "Good" and "Evil", or "Light" and "Dark", or "Yin" and "Yang", or "Positive" and "Negative". Admittedly, I guess I cannot answer where non-peace and all of the other negative things come from. But I can turn the question around to wonder where all of the peace and good things of the Universe come from. Some will immediately say "God", but is that really true (assuming He exists in the first place)? Or is He a _product_ of the Good? And, besides, even the LDS (Mormon) religion recognizes that God created the Earth, but _not_ the Universe, and that there are many Gods, etc. How do other religions (and I definitely am including Gnosticism and Atheism and New Age, etc.) view any or all of the above? Living in Utah kind of limits your knowledge of other religions/beliefs 8^) . >God bless and thanks for you comments, Ditto. The Highest Love and Peace to All The Tan Man JTAN@cc.weber.edu Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!tulane!ukma!asuvax!anasaz!qip!morris From: morris@anasaz (Bob Morris) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories Subject: Thoughts on ET probabilities Message-ID: <1992Mar26.165249.25187@anasaz> Date: 26 Mar 92 16:52:49 GMT References: <1992Mar23.033341.12116@cc.uow.edu.au> Organization: Anasazi, Inc. Phoenix, Az Lines: 30 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5139 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1263 In article <1992Mar23.033341.12116@cc.uow.edu.au> plumpton@wampyr.cc.uow.edu.au (David Plumpton) writes: [stuff deleted] >On the other hand, E.T.s with technology advanced enough to get in totally >undetected (consider the number of people world-wide searching for new >comets), they would probably have seen so much of the universe as to be >completely uninterested in us. Have you ever looked at ants crawling around? Have you ever looked at a bacterial slime under a microscope? Have you ever looked at the sky? Just because we're far advanced relative to some of the other species doesn't mean we're not interested in them. We are continually stretching our ability to explore whatever and wherever we can. Now I admit that there may be many lifeforms with the ability but not the interest in exploring us. We may never know of their existence. But to say that ALL lifeforms are uninterested in us just doesn't make sense. I'd say the biggest factor in life from different planets coming in contact with each other is density. Let's look at the density of species with the ability to escape gravity that we know about. In a sphere centered at the center of Earth and a radius of 10 light-years, the density of such species is (very) roughly 1 in 8.5 * 10^41 cubic miles. To put these numbers into perspective, all of the humans now living on this planet would fit into one (1) cubic mile. Let's face it folks, there aren't very many of us and we're pretty far apart. Bob Morris aka morris@anasazi.com (new address) anasaz!morris@asuvax.eas.asu.edu (old address still works) My opinions only, of course... Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!wupost!darwin.sura.net!ukma!asuvax!anasaz!qip!morris From: morris@anasaz (Bob Morris) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Visitations) Message-ID: <1992Mar26.221104.5109@anasaz> Date: 26 Mar 92 22:11:04 GMT References: <1992Mar20.182200.19700@news.iastate.edu> <1992Mar23.183954.14298@watdragon.waterloo.edu> <1992Mar24.163921.23802@news.iastate.edu> Organization: Anasazi, Inc. Phoenix, Az Lines: 22 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5140 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1264 >James Davis Nicoll writes: >> >> Note that if you *do* get up near C, the interstellar medium presents >>a significant problem, as you plow through it. From the ship POV, it's >>getting fried by a relativistic beam of particles... >> > Then Anthony E Bible writes: > Interesting. I hadn't thought of that. Seems like a potential source >of usuable energy. > So I wrote: Sounds a lot like sticking a pinwheel out of a moving car and driving a generator with it. Sure, you get energy out, but no more than the engine is putting into the wheels. I'd recommend streamlining your ship to minimize the drag instead. Bob Morris aka morris@anasazi.com (new address) anasaz!morris@asuvax.eas.asu.edu (old address still works) My opinions only, of course... Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!orstcs!orstcs!usenetusenet From: johnh@prism.CS.ORST.EDU (John Holeman) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 ! Message-ID: <1992Mar30.235347.27486@CS.ORST.EDU> Date: 30 Mar 92 23:53:47 GMT References: <16MAR199218013175@cc.weber.edu> <1992Mar26.212938.27474@tc.fluke.COM> <30MAR199213053641@cc.weber.edu> Sender: usenet@CS.ORST.EDU Organization: Oregon State University, Computer Science Dept. Lines: 46 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5141 alt.pagan:13914 alt.paranormal:4710 talk.religion.newage:9931 Nntp-Posting-Host: prism.cs.orst.edu In article <30MAR199213053641@cc.weber.edu> JTAN@cc.weber.edu writes: >In article <1992Mar26.212938.27474@tc.fluke.COM>, emery@tc.fluke.COM >(John Emery) writes... >>>>in the heart of the instigator? If there were peace in the hearts of >>>>people, then we wouldn't have external problems. There is something wrong >>> >>> Not necessarily. If we had Peace AND non-Peace in our hearts, >>>then it would be possible for us to have external problems because >>>the two are at odds with each other, and one must win out, even if >>>only temporarily. As long as it's the non-Peace side that is in >>>control, we will have external problems. >> >>But why is this non-peace there in the first place? What drives people >>to hurt or want to hurt other whether through direct violence, words, >>thoughts, or intentions. Something is wrong. > > Because the Universe consists of what we simplify as >"Good" and "Evil", or "Light" and "Dark", or "Yin" and "Yang", >or "Positive" and "Negative". > Admittedly, I guess I cannot answer where non-peace and >all of the other negative things come from. But I can turn >the question around to wonder where all of the peace and good >things of the Universe come from. Some will immediately say >"God", but is that really true (assuming He exists in the first >place)? Or is He a _product_ of the Good? And, besides, even the >LDS (Mormon) religion recognizes that God created the Earth, but >_not_ the Universe, and that there are many Gods, etc. > How do other religions (and I definitely am including >Gnosticism and Atheism and New Age, etc.) view any or all of >the above? > Living in Utah kind of limits your knowledge of other >religions/beliefs 8^) . > I think that the fundamental point is being missed here. All of these peopleare trying to define peace, good, and evil in terms of a supernatural phenomenonor being. These things are intrinsic to human psychology. It is obvious to me that the thing which causes unrest and chaos in our society is large numbers. When you are with you friends, you don't have large disagreements. And if you do, they aren't hard to work out. But any group larger that about 50 will have problems. Thats why there is so much dirty campaigning for government offices...the canidates are trying to impress too many people. Thatswhy there are so many conflicts internationally. There are too many people trying to deal with each other. Until we can deal, individually with large amounts of people, and until every single person has all of his or her basic needs(food, water, shelter, companionship, etc) provided for, we will NEVER see world peace. JH Path: ns-mx!uunet!psinntp!visix!news From: amanda@visix.com (Amanda Walker) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 ! Message-ID: <1992Mar30.225917.20680@visix.com> Date: 30 Mar 92 22:59:17 GMT References: <1992Mar10.204457.1045@visix.com> <1992Mar16.224559.4823@tc.fluke.COM> <1992Mar18.224134.9034@visix.com> <1992Mar26.222750.28816@tc.fluke.COM> Sender: news@visix.com Organization: Visix Software Inc., Reston, VA Lines: 28 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5142 alt.pagan:13919 alt.paranormal:4711 talk.religion.newage:9933 emery@tc.fluke.COM (John Emery) writes: > Do you trust in Allah, Amanda? Is that what brings you peace? Yes, since for me Allah is just another name for God. Even if you don't think that counts, there are nonetheless millions of people who *do* trust in Allah and are brought peace by it. > So there is a right path, then? Don't you believe there are many > paths? According this quote there is a right path. Is that what > brings you peace, following the right path? Please explain why you > believe in a right path and describe what it is. I gather this is an attempt to trap me with logic :). However, the two are not mutually exclusive. Example: How do I get from my office to the outside?" The right path depends a whole lot on where you are standing, after all... > But awfully small parts. It all depends on where you look. Seek, and you shall find... Amanda Walker amanda@visix.com Visix Software Inc. ...!uupsi!visix.com!amanda -- "You're making the same mistake that I did -- assuming people are capable of figuring out obvious behavior when in practice they're not" -- Eric Wiseblatt Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!cunews!revcan!software.mitel.com!meier From: meier@Software.Mitel.COM (Rolf Meier) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: The Pleiadians: Awakening Message-ID: <11304@augustus> Date: 30 Mar 92 21:08:39 GMT References: <56549@cup.portal.com> Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada. Lines: 6 Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:9934 alt.alien.visitors:5143 sci.skeptic:22266 Good stuff. Inconsistent, but amusing nevertheless. _________________________________________________________________________ Rolf Meier Mitel Corporation Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!stl!crosfield!imt From: imt@crosfield.co.uk (ian taylor) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Alien Gifs? Message-ID: <13365@suns9.crosfield.co.uk> Date: 30 Mar 92 16:54:32 GMT Reply-To: imt@crosfield.co.uk (ian taylor) Organization: Crosfield Electronics, Hemel Hempstead, United Kingdom. Lines: 12 Our newsfeed was down for a couple of weeks, and I recall hearing some discussion regarding Gif pictures of an Alien corpse which had been posted. Could anyone repost these or was I being totally duped..? Thanks people, Ian _______________________________________________________________________________ | Ian Taylor (x4097) | The opinions expressed | "I've been living off of | | Crosfield Electronics | here are not mine. | grass, and the drippings | | Hemel Hempstead, UK | God came to me in | from my ceiling, it's OK | | | a vision and told me | to eat fish 'cos they | | imt@cel.crosfield.uk | to do it. | don't have any feelings" | Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!munnari.oz.au!metro!seagoon.newcastle.edu.au!cc.newcastle.edu.au!ccasm From: ccasm@cc.newcastle.edu.au Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: exploding heads? Message-ID: <1992Mar31.155503.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> Date: 31 Mar 92 05:55:03 GMT References: <1992Mar19.202507.7353@mercury.unt.edu> Sender: news@seagoon.newcastle.edu.au Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA Lines: 9 In article <1992Mar19.202507.7353@mercury.unt.edu>, cgw@sol.acs.unt.edu > (christopher williams) writes: > can people's heads REALLY explode? i heard this on the news yesterday. only if your name is John F Kennedy...:-) Big Al Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!watserv1!dmcanzi From: dmcanzi@watserv1.waterloo.edu (David Canzi) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: The Pleiadians: Awakening Message-ID: <1992Mar31.062956.5587@watserv1.waterloo.edu> Date: 31 Mar 92 06:29:56 GMT References: <56549@cup.portal.com> Organization: Effete Corps of Impudent Snobs Lines: 5 Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:9936 alt.alien.visitors:5146 sci.skeptic:22270 Electric monks and Pleiadians come from the same place -- the Pleiades. Coincidence? I think not. -- David Canzi Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!bronze!elung@silver.ucs.indiana.edu From: elung@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Beth Lung) Newsgroups: alt.pagan,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 ! Message-ID: <1992Mar31.021032.25459@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> Date: 31 Mar 92 07:10:10 GMT References: <16MAR199218013175@cc.weber.edu> <1992Mar26.212938.27474@tc.fluke.COM> <30MAR199213053641@cc.weber.edu> Organization: Yea, right... Lines: 56 Xref: ns-mx alt.pagan:13930 talk.religion.newage:9938 alt.paranormal:4712 alt.alien.visitors:5147 In article <30MAR199213053641@cc.weber.edu> JTAN@cc.weber.edu writes: >In article <1992Mar26.212938.27474@tc.fluke.COM>, emery@tc.fluke.COM >(John Emery) writes... John>But why is this non-peace there in the first place? What drives people John>to hurt or want to hurt other whether through direct violence, words, John>thoughts, or intentions. Something is wrong. Tan> Because the Universe consists of what we simplify as Tan>"Good" and "Evil", or "Light" and "Dark", or "Yin" and "Yang", Tan>or "Positive" and "Negative". Perhapse here in lies the problem... is there actually a duality? Must one exist? Perhapse people do 'bad' things because they have not yet experienced these things in their time on this plane (Earth). Of course, this presumes that you believe in reincarnation. -smile- Could we all be here for the sole purpose of gaining knowledge through experience? Please note, I am not condoning theft, murder, rape, etc.; I am soly trying to raise other possiblilities. Maybe we created this sense of duality so we, as humans, could comprehend this... duality puts things into nice neat pigon-holes. Now, how to we stop believing the duality? How can we move beyond it? Is it possible to do so? To these questions, I have no answers. It could be that the collective mind (everyone's thinking) must reject the idea of duality. (Just as if you say 'this wall doesn't exist and convince everyone that the wall doesn't exist. Theoretically, the wall would cease to exist) Or am I just off in half crazed ramblings? -smile- Tan> Admittedly, I guess I cannot answer where non-peace and Tan>all of the other negative things come from. But I can turn Tan>the question around to wonder where all of the peace and good Tan>things of the Universe come from. Some will immediately say Tan>"God", but is that really true (assuming He exists in the first Tan>place)? Or is He a _product_ of the Good? And, besides, even the Tan>LDS (Mormon) religion recognizes that God created the Earth, but Tan>_not_ the Universe, and that there are many Gods, etc. It is possible that all dieties are products of good/evil. And for humankind to better comprehend this good/evil, the dieties came into being. Ok... I'll stop my ramblings. -smile- May you walk in peace, Beth -- Beth Lung elung@silver.ucs.indiana.edu How far must suffering and misery go before we see that even in the day of vast cities and powerful machines, the good earth is our mother and that if we destroy her, we destroy ourselves? -Paul Bigelow Sears Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!bronze!newshost.cs.rose-hulman.edu!news From: waldbyjf@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Julian F Waldby) Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,misc.test,alt.exploding.kibo,talk.bizarre,alt.religion.kibology,alt.personals,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again... Message-ID: <1992Mar31.211150.13627@cs.rose-hulman.edu> Date: 31 Mar 92 21:11:50 GMT References: <1992Mar28.192924.17253@acsu.buffalo.edu> Sender: news@cs.rose-hulman.edu (The News Administrator) Reply-To: waldbyjf@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Julian F Waldby) Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology Lines: 96 Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2540 misc.test:14446 alt.exploding.kibo:99 talk.bizarre:53802 alt.religion.kibology:1392 alt.personals:26646 alt.alien.visitors:5148 Nntp-Posting-Host: o231-26.nextwork.rose-hulman.edu In article <1992Mar28.192924.17253@acsu.buffalo.edu> majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) writes: > sramming@athena.mit.edu (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes: > > >In article <1992Mar27.033812.25302@acsu.buffalo.edu> majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) writes: > >>klm@gozer.mv.com (Kevin L. McBride) writes: > >> > >>>kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: > >> > >>>> In article <1992Mar25.012450.7508@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes: > >>>> >In article <1992Mar20.031338.3813@nntp.uoregon.edu>, rtaylor@cie.uoregon.edu (Russ Taylor) writes: > >>>> >> In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: > >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed] > >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS. > >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper. > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH. I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD STOP IT. > >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*. > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but only after you > >>>> >> added your ten cents? A thousand-degree flame on you! > >>>> >> > >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!) > >>>> >> > >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth? > >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich > >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width. > >> > >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it? > >>>> >because he made a paste of it > >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it. > >> > >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor > >>>> >he never was a sailor > >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer. > >> > >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE? PLEASE EXERCISE > >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT. > >> > >>>Okay. > >> > >> > >> Come on guys, I think he means it. Don't follow up to this. > > >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious. > > >Go ahead and follow up. > > >Or kill me. > > >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess. > > >>-- > >>majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu | The meek shall inherit the earth, > >>v061regm@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu | and the wise keep moving on... > >>Rev. M @P.O. Box 156 O |----------------------------------------- > >> Amherst, NY 14226 + |Ask me about the Secret Society! Shhhh! > > >~ibo > >-- > >sramming@athena.mit.edu > >M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming 305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge MA 02139 > >( the nonibo -ibo ) (617) 225-9887 [home] (617) 253-7942 [office] > > No! Don't follow up to this! Whatever you do, _don't_ press > that "f" button! It's a sin! It's a sin! This is against the gods > of bandwidth and all that is wholly! See what you do! You waste and > waste and waste until the unthinkable happens! Nay, until the > _unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the > world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up! My > _GOD_! How can you even think it! How can you dream it and still > remain sane?!?!? How can it be?!?!?!?! Gah!!!! > > -- > majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu | The meek shall inherit the earth, > v061regm@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu | and the wise keep moving on... > Rev. M @P.O. Box 156 O |----------------------------------------- > Amherst, NY 14226 + |Ask me about the Secret Society! Shhhh! What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion? I missed the earlier parts. -- Boku mo kitigai na gaikokogo no kaki ga arimasu. Boku o tabete kudasai. Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!overload.lbl.gov!dog.ee.lbl.gov!hellgate.utah.edu!fcom.cc.utah.edu!cc.weber.edu!jtan From: jtan@cc.weber.edu (THE TAN MAN) Newsgroups: alt.pagan,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 ! Message-ID: <31MAR199215332727@cc.weber.edu> Date: 31 Mar 92 22:33:00 GMT References: <16MAR199218013175@cc.weber.edu> <1992Mar26.212938.27474@tc.fluke.COM> <30MAR199213053641@cc.weber.edu> <1992Mar31.021032.25459@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> Sender: news@fcom.cc.utah.edu Reply-To: JTAN@cc.weber.edu Organization: Weber State University CS Department Lines: 57 Xref: ns-mx alt.pagan:13953 talk.religion.newage:9950 alt.paranormal:4716 alt.alien.visitors:5149 News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 In article <1992Mar31.021032.25459@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>, Beth Lung writes... >Tan> Because the Universe consists of what we simplify as >Tan>"Good" and "Evil", or "Light" and "Dark", or "Yin" and "Yang", >Tan>or "Positive" and "Negative". > >Perhapse here in lies the problem... is there actually a duality? Must >one exist? No, but that is what "we simplify [it] as". >Perhapse people do 'bad' things because they have not yet experienced >these things in their time on this plane (Earth). Of course, this >presumes that you believe in reincarnation. -smile- >Could we all be here for the sole purpose of gaining knowledge through >experience? Please note, I am not condoning theft, murder, rape, etc.; >I am soly trying to raise other possiblilities. I don't know about the "sole purpose", but gaining knowledge is definitely one of the purposes, I believe. >Maybe we created this sense of duality so we, as humans, could >comprehend this... duality puts things into nice neat pigon-holes. Exactly. >Now, how to we stop believing the duality? How can we move beyond it? >Is it possible to do so? To these questions, I have no answers. It >could be that the collective mind (everyone's thinking) must reject >the idea of duality. (Just as if you say 'this wall doesn't exist and >convince everyone that the wall doesn't exist. Theoretically, the wall >would cease to exist) This moving away from duality is basically a falling into the realm of relativism (not that there's anything wrong with that, mind you!). >Or am I just off in half crazed ramblings? -smile- Maybe quarter-crazed ... 8^) >It is possible that all dieties are products of good/evil. And for >humankind to better comprehend this good/evil, the dieties came into >being. Yes, this certainly seems true. As many have pointed out, even Jesus has moments of anger toward those who do not believe in Him. Good and Evil come mixed in all things/people. It's up to us to sort out what (we believe) is "Good" and "Evil". Thoughts. The Highest Love and Peace to All The Tan Man JTAN@cc.weber.edu Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!sei.cmu.edu!fs7.ece.cmu.edu!crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!wt0b+ From: wt0b+@andrew.cmu.edu (William Henry Timmins) Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,talk.religion.newage Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 ! Message-ID: Date: 31 Mar 92 23:57:22 GMT References: <16MAR199218013175@cc.weber.edu> <1992Mar26.212938.27474@tc.fluke.COM> <30MAR199213053641@cc.weber.edu> <1992Mar31.021032.25459@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Lines: 14 Xref: ns-mx alt.pagan:13956 alt.paranormal:4717 alt.alien.visitors:5150 talk.religion.newage:9952 In-Reply-To: <1992Mar31.021032.25459@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> >Perhapse here in lies the problem... is there actually a duality? Must >one exist? I have always been of the opinion that the Western reliance on dualities is a silly, constricting thing. I don't believe in dualities. I see them merely as a perceptive ploy. You can make three sides to something, or four, or five, or dispense with 'sides' altogether. My advice is to experiment with different ways of looking at things, try to rearrange your thoughts around a different base. It is enlightening. -Me Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!umeecs!zip.eecs.umich.edu!fields From: fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields) Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,misc.test,alt.exploding.kibo,talk.bizarre,alt.religion.kibology,alt.personals,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again... Message-ID: <1992Apr1.020902.587@zip.eecs.umich.edu> Date: 1 Apr 92 02:09:02 GMT References: <1992Mar28.192924.17253@acsu.buffalo.edu> <1992Mar31.211150.13627@cs.rose-hulman.edu> Sender: news@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Mr. News) Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor Lines: 97 Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2541 misc.test:14463 alt.exploding.kibo:100 talk.bizarre:53843 alt.religion.kibology:1393 alt.personals:26675 alt.alien.visitors:5151 In article <1992Mar31.211150.13627@cs.rose-hulman.edu> waldbyjf@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Julian F Waldby) writes: >In article <1992Mar28.192924.17253@acsu.buffalo.edu> >majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) writes: >> sramming@athena.mit.edu (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes: >> >> >In article <1992Mar27.033812.25302@acsu.buffalo.edu> >majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) writes: >> >>klm@gozer.mv.com (Kevin L. McBride) writes: >> >> >> >>>kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >> >> >> >>>> In article <1992Mar25.012450.7508@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> >press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes: >> >>>> >In article <1992Mar20.031338.3813@nntp.uoregon.edu>, >rtaylor@cie.uoregon.edu (Russ Taylor) writes: >> >>>> >> In article kibo@world.std.com (James >'Kibo' Parry) writes: >> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed] >> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS. >> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper. >> >>>> >> > >> >>>> >> > >> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH. I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD >STOP IT. >> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*. >> >>>> >> > >> >>>> >> > >> >>>> >> > >> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but only >after you >> >>>> >> added your ten cents? A thousand-degree flame on you! >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!) >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth? >> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich >> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width. >> >> >> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it? >> >>>> >because he made a paste of it >> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it. >> >> >> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor >> >>>> >he never was a sailor >> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer. >> >> >> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE? PLEASE EXERCISE >> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT. >> >> >> >>>Okay. >> >> >> >> >> >> Come on guys, I think he means it. Don't follow up to this. >> >> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious. >> >> >Go ahead and follow up. >> >> >Or kill me. >> >> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess. >> >> >>-- >> >>majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu | The meek shall inherit the earth, >> >>v061regm@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu | and the wise keep moving on... >> >>Rev. M @P.O. Box 156 O >|----------------------------------------- >> >> Amherst, NY 14226 + |Ask me about the Secret Society! >Shhhh! >> >> >~ibo >> >-- >> >sramming@athena.mit.edu >> >M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming 305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge MA 02139 >> >( the nonibo -ibo ) (617) 225-9887 [home] (617) 253-7942 [office] >> >> No! Don't follow up to this! Whatever you do, _don't_ press >> that "f" button! It's a sin! It's a sin! This is against the gods >> of bandwidth and all that is wholly! See what you do! You waste and >> waste and waste until the unthinkable happens! Nay, until the >> _unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the >> world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up! My >> _GOD_! How can you even think it! How can you dream it and still >> remain sane?!?!? How can it be?!?!?!?! Gah!!!! >> >> -- >> majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu | The meek shall inherit the earth, >> v061regm@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu | and the wise keep moving on... >> Rev. M @P.O. Box 156 O |----------------------------------------- >> Amherst, NY 14226 + |Ask me about the Secret Society! Shhhh! > >What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion? I >missed the earlier parts. >-- > > >Boku mo kitigai na gaikokogo no kaki ga arimasu. Boku o tabete kudasai. Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!news.ysu.edu!ysub!psuvm!jls19 From: JLS19@psuvm.psu.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: So you really want peace??? Message-ID: <92092.101109JLS19@psuvm.psu.edu> Date: 1 Apr 92 15:11:09 GMT Organization: Penn State University Lines: 138 Path: psuvm!cunyvm!ukma!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!uunet!verifone. com!ed_l1 From: ed_l1@verifone.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage Subject: So you really want peace??? Message-ID: <1992Mar24.190121.3952@verifone.com> Date: 25 Mar 92 05:01:21 GMT Article-I.D.: verifone.1992Mar24.190121.3952 Organization: VeriFone Inc., Honolulu HI Lines: 126 The following is posted here as a service. It may be copied or shared on an unlimited basis, but not sold. ==================================================================== So, you're really interested in creating peace? Q: How do you change the minds of an entire population (generation)? A: One at a time. The by-words for peace in this generation: "Cooperative Convinced Committed" Meditating, medicating, vegetating,... Philosophy, psychology, technology... Science, religion, physics, metaphysics, crystals... Enlightenment, empowerment, entrapment, education,.... All these things won't hurt The Cause, but they have had their chance and they didn't help much, either. How do we attain Peace? The opposite of Peace is thought to be War. However, we can have no war, and still not have peace! War is just an extreme form of competition: "We are better than you (or we want to be) and so we're going to kill/wipe out/subjugate/enslave/control you!" Or: "We (or I) want something that you have (land, money, power) and I can't get it unless I get it from you!" "I WANT TO BE AS GOOD AS OR BETTER THAN YOU, AND I WILL STOP AT NOTHING IN ORDER TO DO IT!" Competition is the root of war and the antithesis of peace. Cooperation is the root of peace and the antithesis of war. Cooperation. Working together. Helping each other. When enough people (or anything else) cooperate, a force is created that cannot be withstood by all of the competition in the world. "If you can't lick 'em, join 'em." Eventually, we would all be forced to cooperate. Disagreements wouldn't go away, we'd still have differences of opinion, but by cooperating, sharing our opinions, agreeing to use what works best, we can be, make and do the best. Q: Where do we start? A: With yourself. Convince yourself that cooperation is a better strategy than competition. Commit yourself to The Cause of Peace through Cooperation. Cooperate with others to make the Dream a Reality. Then, find just two other people. Tell them about your commitment, convince them that cooperation is better than competition, and let them cooperate with you: to make peace, equality, justice, freedom, Do it today. Tomorrow, have them find two people that haven't committed, and so on. (Like a human/eternal chain letter -- a Peace Pyramid Scam). Day one: 1 person committed to Peace through Cooperation Day 2: 1+2 = 3 Day 3: 1+2+4 = 7 Day 4: 1+2+4+8 = 15 Day 4: +16 = 31 Day 5: +32 = 63 Day 6: +64 = 127 Day 7: +128 = 255 Day 8: +256 = 511 Day 9: +512 = 1023 Day 10: +1024 = 2047 Day 11: +2048 = 4095 (let's round it out...) Day 12: +4000 = 8000 Day 13: +8000 = 16000 Day 14: 32,000 Day 15: 64,000 Day 16: 128,000 Day 17: 256,000 Day 18: 512,000 (round it DOWN again...) Day 19: 1 Million! Day 20: 2 M Day 21: 4 M Day 22: 8 M Day 23: 16 M Day 24: 32 M Day 25: 64 M Day 26: 128 M Day 27: 256 M Day 28: 512 M Day 29: 1 Billion! Day 30: 2 Billion! Day 31: 4 Billion The beginning of the next month would see all the world convinced. Well, that's optomistic, cause we'd have some hold-outs who wouldn't believe it and then do nothing, and some zealots who will go out and get THREE people and they'd both mess up our figures! But still... What if it even took THREE months, or a YEAR? And what if we still got 10% holdouts, or 15%? So what?! So what are we waiting for? Join the rest of us. My bumper sticker: ------------------------------- | I'm Committed, are you? | | Peace through Cooperation | ------------------------------- ====================================================================== End of message -- =========================================================================== || Ed L'Esperance - P.O. Box 4635, Kane`ohe, Hawai`i 96744 U.S.A. Earth || || Anthropologist, Writer, Editor -*- IN%"Ed_L1@VeriFone.Com" || || Opinions Copyright (c) 1992 Ed L'Esperance. All Rights Reserved || =========================================================================== Path: ns-mx!uunet!nic.unh.edu!kepler.unh.edu!mjs From: mjs@kepler.unh.edu (Speaker to Robots) Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,misc.test,alt.exploding.kibo,talk.bizarre,alt.religion.kibology,alt.personals,alt.alien.visitors Subject: The cascade from Hell rides once again... Summary: This must cease! You disgrrraceful vagabonds! Keywords: incontinence Message-ID: <1992Apr1.190801.10381@nic.unh.edu> Date: 1 Apr 92 19:08:01 GMT References: <1992Mar28.192924.17253@acsu.buffalo.edu> <1992Mar31.211150.13627@cs.rose-hulman.edu> Sender: news@nic.unh.edu (USENET News System) Organization: ScreechHog Utilities, Inc. Lines: 114 Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2547 misc.test:14492 alt.exploding.kibo:102 talk.bizarre:53886 alt.religion.kibology:1406 alt.personals:26710 alt.alien.visitors:5153 X-Mjs12: Message In article <1992Mar31.211150.13627@cs.rose-hulman.edu> waldbyjf@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Julian F Waldby) writes: >In article <1992Mar28.192924.17253@acsu.buffalo.edu> >majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) writes: >> sramming@athena.mit.edu (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes: >> >> >In article <1992Mar27.033812.25302@acsu.buffalo.edu> >majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) writes: >> >>klm@gozer.mv.com (Kevin L. McBride) writes: >> >> >> >>>kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >> >> >> >>>> In article <1992Mar25.012450.7508@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> >press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes: >> >>>> >In article <1992Mar20.031338.3813@nntp.uoregon.edu>, >rtaylor@cie.uoregon.edu (Russ Taylor) writes: >> >>>> >> In article kibo@world.std.com (James >'Kibo' Parry) writes: >> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed] >> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS. >> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper. Berate the waylaid napper! >> >>>> >> > >> >>>> >> > >> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH. I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD >STOP IT. >> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*. >> >>>> >> > >> >>>> >> > >> >>>> >> > >> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but only >after you >> >>>> >> added your ten cents? A thousand-degree flame on you! Som'thin' 'bout that _bother_ you, son? >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!) >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth? >> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich >> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width. Eva Braun gave head, bitch! >> >> >> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it? >> >>>> >because he made a paste of it >> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it. Then Lucy laid waste of it. >> >> >> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor >> >>>> >he never was a sailor >> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer. Ate beaver, then grew pailer. >> >> >> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE? PLEASE EXERCISE >> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT. Bugger off, mate! >> >> >> >>>Okay. And the little dog, too! >> >> >> >> >> >> Come on guys, I think he means it. Don't follow up to this. Aww! All _right_! >> >> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious. >> >> >Go ahead and follow up. >> >> >Or kill me. >> >> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess. >> >> >>-- >> >>majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu | The meek shall inherit the earth, >> >>v061regm@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu | and the wise keep moving on... >> >>Rev. M @P.O. Box 156 O >|----------------------------------------- >> >> Amherst, NY 14226 + |Ask me about the Secret Society! >Shhhh! >> >> >~ibo >> >-- >> >sramming@athena.mit.edu >> >M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming 305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge MA 02139 >> >( the nonibo -ibo ) (617) 225-9887 [home] (617) 253-7942 [office] >> >> No! Don't follow up to this! Whatever you do, _don't_ press >> that "f" button! It's a sin! It's a sin! This is against the gods >> of bandwidth and all that is wholly! See what you do! You waste and >> waste and waste until the unthinkable happens! Nay, until the >> _unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the >> world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up! My >> _GOD_! How can you even think it! How can you dream it and still >> remain sane?!?!? How can it be?!?!?!?! Gah!!!! >> >> -- >> majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu | The meek shall inherit the earth, >> v061regm@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu | and the wise keep moving on... >> Rev. M @P.O. Box 156 O |----------------------------------------- >> Amherst, NY 14226 + |Ask me about the Secret Society! Shhhh! > >What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion? I >missed the earlier parts. Nothing's going on here! Remember, there is no kibble (or something like that.) >-- > > >Boku mo kitigai na gaikokogo no kaki ga arimasu. Boku o tabete kudasai. -- /*------------------------------------.------------------------------------*\ | Nemo | omeN | | | | \*_mjs@kepler.unh.edu_________________|_________________ude.hnu.relpek@sjm_*/ Path: ns-mx!uunet!math.fu-berlin.de!zrz.tu-berlin.de!harti From: harti@mikro.ee.tu-berlin.de (Stefan Hartmann) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,comp.graphics,alt.paranormal Subject: New UFO-sighting color GIF-pics ! Summary: ufo Keywords: ufo Message-ID: Date: 2 Apr 92 01:04:44 GMT Sender: news@mailgzrz.tu-berlin.de (News Manager) Organization: ZRZ/TU-Berlin Lines: 23 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5154 sci.space:28659 comp.graphics:18268 alt.paranormal:4723 Nntp-Posting-Host: mikro.ee.tu-berlin.de Hi to all UFO-interested researchers, I just uploaded a couple of new UFO-sighting color GIF-pics to the new UFO-pic-FTP-site at phoenix.oulu.fi (130.231.240.17). They are in the directory /pub/incoming or /pub/ufo_and_space_pics I did scan these pics from the book from Ed and Francis Walter: UFOs, es gibt sie. (German Edition, ISBN-#: 3-426-26463-3) I think these are the best color UFO-sighting pics now available, or do You know better pictures from other real sightings ? Also I have uploaded 2 pics from the Maria Popovich book: UFO-GLASNOST. One is a GIF-pic of the recovered body of an humanoid alien from the Roswell- ufo-crash in 1947 and the other pic is a disc-shaped UFO photographed over a houseroof. Please download the pics and post me your view or additional infos. Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for Decentral Energy Research email to: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!ames!nsisrv!usenet From: bur@ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov (Mike Bur) Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,misc.test,alt.exploding.kibo,talk.bizarre,alt.religion.kibology,alt.personals,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again... Message-ID: <1992Apr2.015814.14003@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> Date: 2 Apr 92 01:58:14 GMT References: <1992Mar28.192924.17253@acsu.buffalo.edu> <1992Mar31.211150.13627@cs.rose-hulman.edu> <1992Apr1.020902.587@zip.eecs.umich.edu> Sender: usenet@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov (Usenet) Followup-To: alt.sewing Organization: NASA/GSFC code 923 Lines: 59 Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2561 misc.test:14512 alt.exploding.kibo:103 talk.bizarre:53934 alt.religion.kibology:1419 alt.personals:26755 alt.alien.visitors:5155 Nntp-Posting-Host: ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov In article <1992Apr1.020902.587@zip.eecs.umich.edu> fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields) writes: >In article <1992Mar31.211150.13627@cs.rose-hulman.edu> waldbyjf@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Julian F Waldby) writes: >>In article <1992Mar28.192924.17253@acsu.buffalo.edu> >>majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) writes: >>> sramming@athena.mit.edu (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes: >>> >In article <1992Mar27.033812.25302@acsu.buffalo.edu> >>majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) writes: >>> >>klm@gozer.mv.com (Kevin L. McBride) writes: >>> >>>kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>> >>>> In article <1992Mar25.012450.7508@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> >>press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes: >>> >>>> >In article <1992Mar20.031338.3813@nntp.uoregon.edu>, >>rtaylor@cie.uoregon.edu (Russ Taylor) writes: >>> >>>> >> In article kibo@world.std.com (James >>'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed] >>> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS. >>> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper. >>> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH. I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD STOP IT. >>> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*. >>> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but only after you >>> >>>> >> added your ten cents? A thousand-degree flame on you! >>> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!) >>> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth? >>> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich >>> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width. >>> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it? >>> >>>> >because he made a paste of it >>> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it. >>> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor >>> >>>> >he never was a sailor >>> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer. >>> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE? PLEASE EXERCISE >>> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT. >>> >>>Okay. >>> >> Come on guys, I think he means it. Don't follow up to this. >>> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious. >>> >Go ahead and follow up. >>> >Or kill me. >>> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess. >>Shhhh! >>> >sramming@athena.mit.edu >>> >M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming 305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge MA 02139 >>> >( the nonibo -ibo ) (617) 225-9887 [home] (617) 253-7942 [office] >>> No! Don't follow up to this! Whatever you do, _don't_ press >>> that "f" button! It's a sin! It's a sin! This is against the gods >>> of bandwidth and all that is wholly! See what you do! You waste and >>> waste and waste until the unthinkable happens! Nay, until the >>> _unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the >>> world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up! My >>> _GOD_! How can you even think it! How can you dream it and still >>> remain sane?!?!? How can it be?!?!?!?! Gah!!!! >>> majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu | The meek shall inherit the earth, >>> v061regm@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu | and the wise keep moving on... >>> Rev. M @P.O. Box 156 O |----------------------------------------- >>> Amherst, NY 14226 + |Ask me about the Secret Society! Shhhh! >>What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion? I >>missed the earlier parts. There. No more wasted "Bandwidth" Path: ns-mx!uunet!microsoft!jeffc From: jeffc@microsoft.com (Jeff Carey) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.drugs,alt.psychoactives Subject: Re: A Message from Psilocybin Message-ID: <1992Apr02.034330.27586@microsoft.com> Date: 2 Apr 92 03:43:30 GMT References: <56036@cup.portal.com> <1992Mar19.151727.25155@zip.eecs.umich.edu> <1992Mar19.184911.15697@willamette.edu> Organization: Microsoft Corp. Lines: 20 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5156 alt.drugs:24355 alt.psychoactives:841 > > While the average user consumes 2 g of 'shrooms, know that all of >that biomass is *not* psilocybin. The guy that you were responding to was >quite accurate in his estimation that the average dose of *psilocybin* is >on the order of 10 mg. Know that 2 g of refined psilocybin would send you >tripping balls into unreality for the short time that you lived after >consuming such a voluminous amount. > Just a friendly reminder... With the Oss & Oeric book right in front of me, I offer a supporting quote: "A dose of about 10-12 milligrams of psilocybin, or about 5 g. dry weight of mushrooms, or 50 g. wet weight, is sufficient to manifest the full spectrum of hallucinogenic effects in a 160 lb. adult. These effects include visual and auditory hallucinations, extreme hilarity, distortions of time and space perception, and a sense of emotional detachment from the environment. Less marked effects can be detected at doses as low as 4 mg., which is about 2-3 dried mushrooms. Fresh mushrooms seem to be somewhat stronger than dried ones. -- JeffCarey,jeffc@microsoft.com,{uunet,uw-beaver,sun,sco,decvax}!microsoft!jeffc Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ira.uka.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!sun.rhrk.uni-kl.de!efes.physik.uni-kl.de!kring From: kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: What would it take for you...(WAS: Abducted while driving?) Keywords: Your criteria; abduction; proof Message-ID: <1992Mar31.123125.1740@rhrk.uni-kl.de> Date: 31 Mar 92 12:31:25 GMT References: <1992Mar19.215003.4656@bsu-ucs.uucp> <1992Mar24.074909.1@fnalna.fnal.gov> <4g=j0p+sheaffer@netcom.com> <1992Mar26.073004.1@fnalna.fnal.gov> <1992Mar27.140158.13587@rhrk.uni-kl.de> <1992Mar27.191554.1@fnalb.fnal.gov> Sender: news@rhrk.uni-kl.de Organization: FB Physik, Universitaet Kaiserslautern, Germany Lines: 127 I accidentally posted this to the newsgroup "Re: Abducted while driving?" instead of alien.visitors, because someone had set "Followup-To: Re: Abducted while driving?" So I post it again. (With "Followup-To" you set the newsgroups where you want the followups to go, not the name of the old thread you want to follow.) Jim Hawtree wrote: [..] >>>Jim Hawtree - also a hardnosed skeptic, but one who has come across several >>>incidents that cannot be written off. I wrote: >>Surely you mean: incidents that he couldn't find a way to write off. Jim writes: >No, I mean that in certain cases that I am well-acquainted with, I have ran >out of comfortable explanations. That's exactly what I said. I'm a bit of a pedant, and I just wanted to say that there is a difference between "I have no explanation" and "there can't be an explanation". Of course you know this, but I really don't understand why one has to jump on the "alien visitors" theory (of all things) every time some unexplained phenomenon appears. Is it because nobody knows how to exclude this possibility, so that it *has to* remain? >In these cases, I cannot ascribe the events >to: >1)sloppy observation on the part of the witness; >2) lack of intelligence on the part of the witness; >3) desire for attention; >4) meteorological phenomena; >5) swamp gas, the planet Venus in the sky, etc.; >6) history of lying; >7) mental instability; >8) petite mal, minor stroke, drug use; >9) unusual optical effects, such as nonlinear reflections from windows; >10) practical jokes or fraud; >11) phosphenes; >12) hallucinations due to lack of sleep, extreme stress, etc.; >13) any disorders found in the DSM-III after examination by SEVERAL >psychiatrists; >Plus, the presence of several circumstances, generally including: >1) presence of shock and/or disorientation, objectively observable, on the >part of the witness; >2) presence of most, or all the criteria for PTSD (post-traumatic stress >disorder); >3) subjectively long interval over which the event occurred (i.e. not a >momentary lapse); >4) lack of scripted, expected or fantasized details, or complete violation of >all expectactions of what such an event would be like. Quite a long list, but you forgot birds, planes, balloons, satellites, and people who make hoaxes by building saucers to frighten passers-by. Probably these don't fit your unexplained cases too, but it shows that one just *can't* think of everything. This is what was discussed some weeks ago as "Alibi Mentality": the Holmes method ("Eliminate all the possibilities but one, and that one, no matter how improbable, is the case,") doesn't work if one is not Sherlock Holmes, since Holmes' world was specially constructed for him. BTW, what is "etc." in 5)? >Of course, many of the following are only possible to determine with someone >one knows quite well. Of course, an actor or schizophrenic might put on a >very convincing simulacrum; but the above just does not happen without a cause, >and occam's razor starts to cut uncomfortably in the direction of the alien >visitor hypothesis, leaving me with a feeling not unlike a Christian Scientist >with appendicitis... :-) Occam's razor can only be applied if you have two hypotheses, one of which makes more assumptions than the other. Here you have only one hypothesis (the "alien visitors" one) which makes a lot of assumptions: -there is life on neighboring planets -it is intelligent life -they are technologically advanced -they can build starships for interstellar flight -they come to Earth -they do nothing here besides frightening passers-by, making circles in corn fields, contacting secret societies, killing JFK, and pursue people with Usenet account. (Please note that I didn't say they do these things but only that they do nothing else) I really don't see Occam approving of that. [paragraphs about rape vs. abduction and usual "True Believers" talk omitted] >BY THE WAY: What is the minimum sort of proof that you would need to experince >for you to conclude that intelligent aliens really existed, and abducted >people, and subjected them to some sort of (unknown, perhaps medical) tests? There is no minimum. This whole thing is not a yes-no business, where I say "Now I believe it" at a certain point, but there are many stages from "No, this is too absurd" to "That is the most reasonable explanation". I could now invent a scenario involving aliens and me, but that wouldn't be helpful, since exactly this scenario is very unlikely, independent of the scenario. >I would suggest that an experience that was 1) extremely intense in degree; >2) would last over an hour; and 3) have effects of some sort that would be >observable by me after the "event" in an objective fashion, but not have a >natural explanation. Would you consider this necessary and sufficient \ >minimum proof for you? [..] 1) No, intense experiences cause emotions and don't improve one's capability of making observations. (And no, I am not Mr. Spock.) 2) I don't know whether this is important. 3) Yes, that would help. My point is that you seem to think that lack of explanations points to alien visitors, but lack of explanations in my opinion points to "We don't know". As I said before in talk.origins: >[..] there are two possibilities: >1) Put up with the fact that there is no explanation yet, and search > for one. >2) Invent one. > >The scientific approach is 1), not 2). -- -Caddy--(thomas kettenring, 2 dan, kaiserslautern, germany)----- The question of whether the electron is a wave or a particle has a clear and definite answer: No. Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!math.fu-berlin.de!news.netmbx.de!zelator!leo From: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de (Stefan Hartmann) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic Subject: UFO-pics,what do You think about them? Summary: ufo Keywords: ufo Message-ID: <1UW1BWU@zelator.in-berlin.de> Date: 2 Apr 92 10:47:10 GMT Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System Lines: 31 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5158 sci.space:28680 alt.paranormal:4726 sci.skeptic:22349 Hi, I have placed some new UFO-sighting-GIF-pics at the UFO-ftp-site at phoenix.oulu.fi (130.231.240.17) /pub/incoming or /pub/ufo_and_space_pics These are from the 1987 Gulf Breeze sightings from the Ed and Francis Walter's book: UFOs, es gibt sie ! (German Edition, ISBN: 3-426-26463-3) These are color GIF-pics ! They are named ed*.gif . There are also 2 pics from the Maria Popovich book : UFO-Glasnost alien.gif and ufohouse.gif By the way, these two books is a "must read" for UFO-investigators ! Please let me know, what You all thing about them. Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for Decentral Energy Research email to: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de -- ******************************************************************************* * Stefan Hartmann This is how to contact me: * * EMAIL: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de * * Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79 * ******************************************************************************* Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!lynx!leo.unm.edu!davros From: davros@leo.unm.edu (DAVROS) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: UFO-pics,what do You think about them? Keywords: ufo Message-ID: Date: 2 Apr 92 18:01:45 GMT References: <1UW1BWU@zelator.in-berlin.de> Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque Lines: 3 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5159 sci.space:28686 alt.paranormal:4729 sci.skeptic:22355 i think they are excellent and please post more -ketan- Path: ns-mx!uunet!world!kibo From: kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again... Message-ID: Date: 2 Apr 92 19:59:07 GMT References: <1992Mar31.211150.13627@cs.rose-hulman.edu> <1992Apr1.020902.587@zip.eecs.umich.edu> <1992Apr2.015814.14003@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> Followup-To: misc.test,alt.postmodern,alt.alien.visitors,alt.slack,alt.sex Organization: A room filled with typography (in Boston's Back Bay) Lines: 62 Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2577 alt.alien.visitors:5160 In article <1992Apr2.015814.14003@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> bur@ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov (Mike Bur) writes: >In article <1992Apr1.020902.587@zip.eecs.umich.edu> fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields) writes: >>In article <1992Mar31.211150.13627@cs.rose-hulman.edu> waldbyjf@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Julian F Waldby) writes: >>>In article <1992Mar28.192924.17253@acsu.buffalo.edu> >>>majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) writes: >>>> sramming@athena.mit.edu (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes: >>>> >In article <1992Mar27.033812.25302@acsu.buffalo.edu> >>>majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) writes: >>>> >>klm@gozer.mv.com (Kevin L. McBride) writes: >>>> >>>kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>> >>>> In article <1992Mar25.012450.7508@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> >>>press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes: >>>> >>>> >In article <1992Mar20.031338.3813@nntp.uoregon.edu>, >>>rtaylor@cie.uoregon.edu (Russ Taylor) writes: >>>> >>>> >> In article kibo@world.std.com (James >>>'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed] >>>> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS. >>>> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper. >>>> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH. I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD STOP IT. >>>> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*. >>>> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but only after you >>>> >>>> >> added your ten cents? A thousand-degree flame on you! >>>> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!) >>>> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth? >>>> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich >>>> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width. >>>> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it? >>>> >>>> >because he made a paste of it >>>> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it. >>>> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor >>>> >>>> >he never was a sailor >>>> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer. >>>> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE? PLEASE EXERCISE >>>> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT. >>>> >>>Okay. >>>> >> Come on guys, I think he means it. Don't follow up to this. >>>> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious. >>>> >Go ahead and follow up. >>>> >Or kill me. >>>> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess. >>>Shhhh! >>>> >sramming@athena.mit.edu >>>> >M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming 305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge MA 02139 >>>> >( the nonibo -ibo ) (617) 225-9887 [home] (617) 253-7942 [office] >>>> No! Don't follow up to this! Whatever you do, _don't_ press >>>> that "f" button! It's a sin! It's a sin! This is against the gods >>>> of bandwidth and all that is wholly! See what you do! You waste and >>>> waste and waste until the unthinkable happens! Nay, until the >>>> _unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the >>>> world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up! My >>>> _GOD_! How can you even think it! How can you dream it and still >>>> remain sane?!?!? How can it be?!?!?!?! Gah!!!! >>>> majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu | The meek shall inherit the earth, >>>> v061regm@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu | and the wise keep moving on... >>>> Rev. M @P.O. Box 156 O |----------------------------------------- >>>> Amherst, NY 14226 + |Ask me about the Secret Society! Shhhh! >>>What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion? I >>>missed the earlier parts. >There. No more wasted "Bandwidth" Huh? Path: ns-mx!uunet!bonnie.concordia.ca!garrot.DMI.USherb.CA!terre!paquj00 From: paquj00@terre.DMI.USherb.CA (JEAN-FRANCOIS PAQUETTE) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Me Message-ID: <1992Apr2.225838.9244@DMI.USherb.CA> Date: 2 Apr 92 22:58:38 GMT Sender: usenet@DMI.USherb.CA (Pour courrier Usenet) Organization: Universite de Sherbrooke -- DMI Lines: 15 Nntp-Posting-Host: terre Hi, my name id R-94-N8. Im an Alien living here since 1987. I came from the planet Zora, and I have a special mission... God does not exist as we imagine him; In reality, God is a number. And the goal of my inter- galactical trip is to find that number and then put it on floppy-disk backup. And when this day will be, the world will be saved. /\ /\ \/ (oo) || R-94-N8. Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!emory!ducvax.auburn.edu!lab5!forrepr From: forrepr@eng.auburn.edu (Philip R. Forrest) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: It seems kinda simple to me. Message-ID: <1992Apr2.231642.2233@ducvax.auburn.edu> Date: 3 Apr 92 04:16:41 GMT Reply-To: forrepr@eng.auburn.edu Organization: Auburn University Engineering Lines: 42 Nntp-Posting-Host: lab5.eng.auburn.edu Ya know, what I can't figure is why some of these UFO-abduction investigators haven't tried some other means (besides hypnotism) of proving their case. If someone came to me and told me they were being abducted by aliens on a 'regular' basis (i.e. once every few months) then I, being quite ignorant of proper hypnotic procedure, would commence to at least finding a way of proving that the 'victim' was being removed from his/her/it's car/home/location against the victim's will. Several scenarios present themselves: 1: The simplest: Victim 'A' reports that she is being abducted from her bedroom 'regularly'. Solution: Place several self-contained camera systems about the points of entry in her house, and, of course, her bedroom. The camera systems would be internally powered, and would have tamper-proof seals on their casings. The investigator would come by once a week and change the long running tape and batteries. Only a few outcomes are possible: a) Nothing happens b) The victim now states she is being abducted elsewhere c) The camera is tampered with d) All the camera systems simultaneously fail and then 'fix' themselves e) You have the story of the millenium 2: A little more complicated: Several police agencies have successfully tracked people sentenced to house arrest with 'locator' devices. By radio triangulation the whereabouts of the person wearing the device could easily be documented. 3: The most complicated: Have you ever seen 'World League Football' ?? The Helmet-Cam would work great if RADICALLY modified. Out of the thousands of people that have claimed to have been abducted, surely one must have a glass eye. A really good craftsman could fashion a glass eye with a camera in it that would transmit to a recorder (once again, tamper-proof) located in the abductee's house - and a recorder that could be transported if the person was travelling somewhere. Just a few thoughts, - Phil Forrest Path: ns-mx!uunet!olivea!veritas!amdcad!netcomsv!mork!anson From: anson@netcom.com (Anson Kennedy) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Me Message-ID: <4jkj2yn.anson@netcom.com> Date: 3 Apr 92 00:37:52 GMT References: <=hkjd1g.noring@netcom.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 24 noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes: >In article paquj00@terre.DMI.USherb.CA (JEAN-FRANCOIS PAQUETTE) writes: >> >> Hi, my name id R-94-N8. Im an Alien living here since 1987. I came >>from the planet Zora, and I have a special mission... God does not exist as >>we imagine him; In reality, God is a number. And the goal of my inter- >>galactical trip is to find that number and then put it on floppy-disk >>backup. >> >> And when this day will be, the world will be saved. >Last I heard, the number is 41. Your mission is complete. You can go back >home now. Does Zora have an Internet site? I thought it was 42? -- Anson Kennedy Secretary of the Georgia Skeptics (but don't even THINK I speak for them!) "If I had been the Virgin Mary, I would have said 'No.'" -Margaret "Stevie" Smith (1902-1971) Path: ns-mx!uunet!olivea!veritas!amdcad!netcomsv!mork!noring From: noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Me Message-ID: <0jkjyfp.noring@netcom.com> Date: 3 Apr 92 00:43:33 GMT References: <=hkjd1g.noring@netcom.com> <4jkj2yn.anson@netcom.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 36 In article <4jkj2yn.anson@netcom.com> anson@netcom.com (Anson Kennedy) writes: >noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes: > >>In article paquj00@terre.DMI.USherb.CA (JEAN-FRANCOIS PAQUETTE) writes: >>> >>> Hi, my name id R-94-N8. Im an Alien living here since 1987. I came >>>from the planet Zora, and I have a special mission... God does not exist as >>>we imagine him; In reality, God is a number. And the goal of my inter- >>>galactical trip is to find that number and then put it on floppy-disk >>>backup. >>> >>> And when this day will be, the world will be saved. > > >>Last I heard, the number is 41. Your mission is complete. You can go back >>home now. Does Zora have an Internet site? > >I thought it was 42? You know, by golly gee willigers, I think you're right. You have one up on me. :^) Jon -- ============================================================================= | Jon Noring | noring@netcom.netcom.com | "The dogs bark, but the | | JKN International | IP : 192.100.81.100 | caravan moves on." | | 1312 Carlton Place | Phone : (510) 294-8153 | "Pack your lunch, sit in | | Livermore, CA 94550 | V-Mail: (510) 862-1101 | the bushes, and watch." | ============================================================================= "If you make $50,000 today, you have the same buying power as the average coal miner did in 1949, adjusted for taxes and inflation," John Sestina, nationally recognized Certified Financial Planner; quoted in 1987. Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!amdcad!netcomsv!mork!noring From: noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Me Message-ID: <=hkjd1g.noring@netcom.com> Date: 2 Apr 92 23:33:48 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 26 In article paquj00@terre.DMI.USherb.CA (JEAN-FRANCOIS PAQUETTE) writes: > > Hi, my name id R-94-N8. Im an Alien living here since 1987. I came >from the planet Zora, and I have a special mission... God does not exist as >we imagine him; In reality, God is a number. And the goal of my inter- >galactical trip is to find that number and then put it on floppy-disk >backup. > > And when this day will be, the world will be saved. Last I heard, the number is 41. Your mission is complete. You can go back home now. Does Zora have an Internet site? Jon -- ============================================================================= | Jon Noring | noring@netcom.netcom.com | "The dogs bark, but the | | JKN International | IP : 192.100.81.100 | caravan moves on." | | 1312 Carlton Place | Phone : (510) 294-8153 | "Pack your lunch, sit in | | Livermore, CA 94550 | V-Mail: (510) 862-1101 | the bushes, and watch." | ============================================================================= "If you make $50,000 today, you have the same buying power as the average coal miner did in 1949, adjusted for taxes and inflation," John Sestina, nationally recognized Certified Financial Planner; quoted in 1987. Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!stl!crosfield!imt From: imt@crosfield.co.uk (ian taylor) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,comp.graphics,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: New UFO-sighting color GIF-pics ! Message-ID: <13402@suns9.crosfield.co.uk> Date: 3 Apr 92 09:27:59 GMT References: Reply-To: imt@crosfield.co.uk (ian taylor) Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,comp.graphics,alt.paranormal Organization: Crosfield Electronics, Hemel Hempstead, United Kingdom. Lines: 25 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5166 sci.space:28727 comp.graphics:18321 alt.paranormal:4731 In article harti@mikro.ee.tu-berlin.de (Stefan Hartmann) writes: >Hi to all UFO-interested researchers, >I just uploaded a couple of new UFO-sighting color GIF-pics to the new >UFO-pic-FTP-site at phoenix.oulu.fi (130.231.240.17). > >Also I have uploaded 2 pics from the Maria Popovich book: >UFO-GLASNOST. >email to: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de THIS IS VERY EXCITING! Unfortunately this is not use at all to those of us with no remote ftp capability!!! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE post these pictures, either to alt.alien.visitors, or alt.binaries.pictures, to ensure that everyone gets to see them!!! Please someone, post these pics!! Thanks very much Ian _______________________________________________________________________________ | Ian Taylor (x4097) | The opinions expressed | "I've been living off of | | Crosfield Electronics | here are not mine. | grass, and the drippings | | Hemel Hempstead, UK | God came to me in | from my ceiling, it's OK | | | a vision and told me | to eat fish 'cos they | | imt@cel.crosfield.uk | to do it. | don't have any feelings" | Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!amdcad!netcomsv!mork!anson From: anson@netcom.com (Anson Kennedy) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Me Message-ID: <3lkj4f+.anson@netcom.com> Date: 3 Apr 92 01:52:53 GMT References: <=hkjd1g.noring@netcom.com> <4jkj2yn.anson@netcom.com> <0jkjyfp.noring@netcom.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 36 noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes: >In article <4jkj2yn.anson@netcom.com> anson@netcom.com (Anson Kennedy) writes: >>noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes: >> >>>In article paquj00@terre.DMI.USherb.CA (JEAN-FRANCOIS PAQUETTE) writes: >>>> >>>> Hi, my name id R-94-N8. Im an Alien living here since 1987. I came >>>>from the planet Zora, and I have a special mission... God does not exist as >>>>we imagine him; In reality, God is a number. And the goal of my inter- >>>>galactical trip is to find that number and then put it on floppy-disk >>>>backup. >>>> >>>> And when this day will be, the world will be saved. >> >> >>>Last I heard, the number is 41. Your mission is complete. You can go back >>>home now. Does Zora have an Internet site? >> >>I thought it was 42? >You know, by golly gee willigers, I think you're right. You have one up on >me. :^) Hey, we're all in this search for truth together. ;-) But I'm waiting for the person with 43 as the answer to have one up on ME! :-)) -- Anson Kennedy Secretary of the Georgia Skeptics (but don't even THINK I speak for them!) "If I had been the Virgin Mary, I would have said 'No.'" -Margaret "Stevie" Smith (1902-1971) Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!bluemoon!garys From: garys@bluemoon.rn.com (Gary Stollman) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal Subject: INVASION!!! Message-ID: Date: 3 Apr 92 09:37:17 GMT Sender: bbs@bluemoon.rn.com (BBS Login) Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024]) Lines: 16 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5168 alt.conspiracy:13747 talk.religion.newage:9978 alt.paranormal:4736 WELL, it has been a strange three months here in LA...God is continuing to wipe out the demons that have tried to destroy my family, and I have great hope for my future now...It looks like we just might win!! But the impact on my psyche is irreversible, I'm afraid...I just don't know what these aliens will come up with next...They have the phones tapped to the gills, and the CIA has most of the nodes (bbses) I call bugged and also the people on GEnie that are on the boards I frequent, but me thinks they might be getting tired somewhat...They know now that I didn't pull that toy gun on David Horowitz for nothing...But I don't think they know exactly WHY I did it...They will find out soon enough, I think... Gary This is from garys@bluemoon.rn.com who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet Path: ns-mx!uunet!bonnie.concordia.ca!garrot.DMI.USherb.CA!heonj00 From: heonj00@DMI.USherb.CA (JEAN-FRANCOIS HEON) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: me too Message-ID: <1992Apr3.182127.12536@DMI.USherb.CA> Date: 3 Apr 92 18:21:27 GMT Sender: usenet@DMI.USherb.CA (Pour courrier Usenet) Organization: Universite de Sherbrooke, Quebec Lines: 21 Nntp-Posting-Host: roselin Hi, my name is 12-A-44B. Im an Alien living here since 1942. I came from the planet Zanazaka, and I have a special mission... The Devil does not exist as we imagine him; In reality, The Devil is a system administrator. And the goal of my intergalactical trip is to find that sysadmin and then eradicate his name from all the hard disks in the universe. And when this day will be, the world will be saved. \ / O O O " \___/ 12-A-44B -- ******************************************************************************* * Jeff Heon * 'Justice may be blind, but it can see in the dark' * * heonj00@dmi.usher.ca * The judge in Dark Justice * ******************************************************************************* Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!paperboy.osf.org!hsdndev!dartvax!mars.caps.maine.edu!maine.maine.edu!io00198 From: IO00198@MAINE.MAINE.EDU Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Me Message-ID: <92094.112608IO00198@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> Date: 3 Apr 92 16:26:08 GMT References: <=hkjd1g.noring@netcom.com> <4jkj2yn.anson@netcom.com> <0jkjyfp.noring@netcom.com> <3lkj4f+.anson@netcom.com> Organization: University of Maine System Lines: 40 In article <3lkj4f+.anson@netcom.com>, anson@netcom.com (Anson Kennedy) says: > >noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes: > >>In article <4jkj2yn.anson@netcom.com> anson@netcom.com (Anson Kennedy) >writes: >>>noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes: >>> >>>>In article paquj00@terre.DMI.USherb.CA (JEAN-FRANCOIS PAQUETTE) writes: >>>>> >>>>> Hi, my name id R-94-N8. Im an Alien living here since 1987. I came >>>>>from the planet Zora, and I have a special mission... God does not exist s >a >>>>>we imagine him; In reality, God is a number. And the goal of my inter- >>>>>galactical trip is to find that number and then put it on floppy-disk >>>>>backup. >>>>> >>>>> And when this day will be, the world will be saved. >>> >>> >>>>Last I heard, the number is 41. Your mission is complete. You can go back >>>>home now. Does Zora have an Internet site? >>> >>>I thought it was 42? > > >>You know, by golly gee willigers, I think you're right. You have one up on >>me. :^) > >Hey, we're all in this search for truth together. ;-) > >But I'm waiting for the person with 43 as the answer to have one up on ME! >:-)) >-- The number is 42, but it's not God, it's the answer to the meaning of the universe. But what the hell's the question ?!!? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Corey Gray IO00198@maine.maine.edu | A WET DOG SWIMS IN THE RAIN | BUT A DRY MARTINI LAUGHS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.claremont.edu!nntp-server.caltech.edu!sjs From: sjs@hood.hood.caltech.edu (Stephen Speicher) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Me Message-ID: Date: 3 Apr 92 18:41:30 GMT References: <=hkjd1g.noring@netcom.com> <4jkj2yn.anson@netcom.com> <0jkjyfp.noring@netcom.com> <3lkj4f+.anson@netcom.com> Sender: news@cco.caltech.edu Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Lines: 37 Nntp-Posting-Host: hoodlum.hood.caltech.edu anson@netcom.com (Anson Kennedy) writes: >noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes: >>In article <4jkj2yn.anson@netcom.com> anson@netcom.com (Anson Kennedy) writes: >>>noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes: >>> >>>>In article paquj00@terre.DMI.USherb.CA (JEAN-FRANCOIS PAQUETTE) writes: >>>>> >>>>> Hi, my name id R-94-N8. Im an Alien living here since 1987. I came >>>>>from the planet Zora, and I have a special mission... God does not exist as >>>>>we imagine him; In reality, God is a number. And the goal of my inter- >>>>>galactical trip is to find that number and then put it on floppy-disk >>>>>backup. >>>>> >>>>> And when this day will be, the world will be saved. >>> >>> >>>>Last I heard, the number is 41. Your mission is complete. You can go back >>>>home now. Does Zora have an Internet site? >>> >>>I thought it was 42? >>You know, by golly gee willigers, I think you're right. You have one up on >>me. :^) >Hey, we're all in this search for truth together. ;-) >But I'm waiting for the person with 43 as the answer to have one up on ME! >:-)) >-- You're all wrong! If it's God it must be an irrational number. Stephen sjs@hood.hood.caltech.edu Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!cy.fre.au!borg From: borg@cy.fre.au Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: I2 Message-ID: <9204032024.AA01410@sunny.ssc.gov> Date: 3 Apr 92 20:24:28 GMT Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Lines: 1 am an alien. Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ucla-cs!ucla-se!mott!mitch From: mitch@mott.seas.ucla.edu (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin)) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: It seems kinda simple to me. Message-ID: <6572@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> Date: 3 Apr 92 21:21:01 GMT References: <1992Apr2.231642.2233@ducvax.auburn.edu> Sender: news@SEAS.UCLA.EDU Organization: Ace Manufacturing Company Lines: 18 In article <1992Apr2.231642.2233@ducvax.auburn.edu> forrepr@eng.auburn.edu writes: >Ya know, what I can't figure is why some of these UFO-abduction >investigators haven't tried some other means (besides hypnotism) >of proving their case. If someone came to me and told me they were [Several scenarios deleted...] How about using a "control group" of people who claim _not_ to have had an abduction experience or missing time episode? Would they suddenly begin "remembering" such episodes when placed under hypnosis? A "false positive" result would certainly cast aspersions on the value of hypnosis as a tool. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCLAIMER: "Don't blame _me_, _I_ didn't do it!" --Krusty the Clown "Ididn'tdoitnobodysawmeyoucan'tproveanything!" --Bartman Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!spool.mu.edu!hri.com!ukma!nsisrv!usenet From: bur@ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov (Mike Bur) Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.alien.visitors,alt.slack,alt.stupidity,alt.exploding.kibo Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again... Message-ID: <1992Apr4.004715.17931@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> Date: 4 Apr 92 00:47:15 GMT References: <1992Apr1.020902.587@zip.eecs.umich.edu> <1992Apr2.015814.14003@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> Sender: usenet@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov (Usenet) Organization: NASA/GSFC code 923 Lines: 63 Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2599 alt.alien.visitors:5174 alt.slack:2829 alt.stupidity:4439 alt.exploding.kibo:106 Nntp-Posting-Host: ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >In article <1992Apr2.015814.14003@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> bur@ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov (Mike Bur) writes: >>In article <1992Apr1.020902.587@zip.eecs.umich.edu> fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields) writes: >>>In article <1992Mar31.211150.13627@cs.rose-hulman.edu> waldbyjf@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Julian F Waldby) writes: >>>>In article <1992Mar28.192924.17253@acsu.buffalo.edu> >>>>majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) writes: >>>>> sramming@athena.mit.edu (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes: >>>>> >In article <1992Mar27.033812.25302@acsu.buffalo.edu> >>>>majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) writes: >>>>> >>klm@gozer.mv.com (Kevin L. McBride) writes: >>>>> >>>kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>>> >>>> In article <1992Mar25.012450.7508@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> >>>>press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes: >>>>> >>>> >In article <1992Mar20.031338.3813@nntp.uoregon.edu>, >>>>rtaylor@cie.uoregon.edu (Russ Taylor) writes: >>>>> >>>> >> In article kibo@world.std.com (James >>>>'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>>> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed] >>>>> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS. >>>>> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper. >>>>> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH. I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD STOP IT. >>>>> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*. >>>>> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but only after you >>>>> >>>> >> added your ten cents? A thousand-degree flame on you! >>>>> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!) >>>>> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth? >>>>> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich >>>>> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width. >>>>> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it? >>>>> >>>> >because he made a paste of it >>>>> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it. >>>>> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor >>>>> >>>> >he never was a sailor >>>>> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer. >>>>> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE? PLEASE EXERCISE >>>>> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT. >>>>> >>>Okay. >>>>> >> Come on guys, I think he means it. Don't follow up to this. >>>>> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious. >>>>> >Go ahead and follow up. >>>>> >Or kill me. >>>>> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess. >>>>Shhhh! >>>>> >sramming@athena.mit.edu >>>>> >M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming 305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge MA 02139 >>>>> >( the nonibo -ibo ) (617) 225-9887 [home] (617) 253-7942 [office] >>>>> No! Don't follow up to this! Whatever you do, _don't_ press >>>>> that "f" button! It's a sin! It's a sin! This is against the gods >>>>> of bandwidth and all that is wholly! See what you do! You waste and >>>>> waste and waste until the unthinkable happens! Nay, until the >>>>> _unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the >>>>> world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up! My >>>>> _GOD_! How can you even think it! How can you dream it and still >>>>> remain sane?!?!? How can it be?!?!?!?! Gah!!!! >>>>> majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu | The meek shall inherit the earth, >>>>> v061regm@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu | and the wise keep moving on... >>>>> Rev. M @P.O. Box 156 O |----------------------------------------- >>>>> Amherst, NY 14226 + |Ask me about the Secret Society! Shhhh! >>>>What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion? I >>>>missed the earlier parts. >>There. No more wasted "Bandwidth" >Huh? Duh! Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!pacbell.com!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!press2 From: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <1992Apr4.014550.14207@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> Date: 4 Apr 92 01:45:50 GMT References: Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Organization: AT&T Lines: 9 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5175 alt.conspiracy:13760 talk.religion.newage:9981 alt.paranormal:4737 Gary- followup to alt.alien.visitors if you can We are all pulling for ya buddy! keep up the good work, and don't let the aliens steal your sanity. I still watch CNN, but haven't seen anything weird or unusual except they keep featuring Bill Clinton. Keep us posted! barry-- Path: ns-mx!uunet!microsoft!a-paulc From: a-paulc@microsoft.com (Paul CLARK) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.drugs,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: PROGRAMMING AND METAPROGRAMMING IN THE HUMAN BIOCOMPUTER Message-ID: <1992Apr03.201913.8285@microsoft.com> Date: 3 Apr 92 20:19:13 GMT References: <1992Mar22.194206.23974@mits.mdata.fi> Organization: Microsoft Corp. Lines: 12 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5176 alt.drugs:24485 alt.paranormal:4738 sci.skeptic:22410 In article rcain@netcom.com (Robert Cain) writes: >Thank you antti. I needed that! Do you or anyone know what Dr. Lilly >is doing now, where he might be? Apparently he lives around the Malibu area somewhere. According to Dr. Tim, these days he's been taking it easy, not doing any heavy research, and "he really likes the girls". :') I also recommend his biography 'The Scientist'. . . . . . . . . . . . -Paul Clark a-paulc@microsoft.com Path: ns-mx!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!src.honeywell.com!umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!vjmurphy From: vjmurphy@carina.unm.edu (Phred T. Platypus) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <_wlj#7@lynx.unm.edu> Date: 4 Apr 92 07:10:30 GMT References: Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque Lines: 14 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5177 alt.conspiracy:13765 In article garys@bluemoon.rn.com (Gary Stollman) writes: > > This is from > garys@bluemoon.rn.com >who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet ^^^^^ Seems Gary has become a multiple-being of some kind. -- "You ask me if sex is one of the most _\_\ _/_/ Phred Platypus important things in life? Absolutely. _\_\ _/_/ Grammarian of Vengeance But the lack of it is even likelier _\_\_/_/ [ vjmurphy@carina.unm.edu ] to drive you nuts." -- Harlan Ellison _\_/ Vincent J. Murphy Path: ns-mx!uunet!hela.iti.org!widener!beyonet!beyo From: beyo@beyonet.UUCP (Steve Urich) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFO debate on Packet Summary: Strange Book Keywords: original packet found Message-ID: <326@beyonet.UUCP> Date: 4 Apr 92 20:28:13 GMT References: <325@beyonet.UUCP> Organization: Beyonet Network Lines: 75 I found the original message that everyone is replying about. I didn't see the orignal when I posted before sorry. I found it on another packet bbs that keeps its messages longer then the one I usually use. Very Strange... What will people but on Ham Operators next :-) ===========Start Packet massage (fwd) Msg# TR Size To From @ BBS Read Date/Time Title 50269 BN 2327 INFO KT7H USA 1 0402/2133 Ham/UFO Conspiracy?? Path: WA3TSW!WB3JOE!KD3DE!KB1BD!KB4CYC!KB2EAR!NN2Z!N7DUO Date: 920328/0134 From: KT7H @ N7DUO Message-Id: <4719@N7DUO> To: INFO @ USA Subject: Ham/UFO Conspiracy?? I saw something REALLY hilarious recently in a "new age" bookstore in my neighborhood here in Seattle. It was a book called "THE ENERGY GRID 1990 - Harmonic 695 - The Pulse of the Universe" by Bruce Cathie. In it, Mr. Cathie describes how he figured out a pattern to UFO sightings when he plotted them on a map. He theorized that the UFOs were kept aloft by some sort of anti-gravitational force at the intersection of some energy lines that become obvious when viewing his map. The really funny thing was that he went to the locations where these map lines converged, and found some other-worldly structures. He believes that these strange structures beam energy to the UFOs, keeping them aloft. After reading his descriptions, I realized that he was observing an HF cubical quad antenna used by hams! He eventually discovered that hams lived at each of these locations where he found the antennas, but believes that ham operators are involved in some giant UFO conspiracy! He also does not believe that amateur radio operators are capable of constructing such advanced antennas without the help of ALIEN BEINGS! His further research uncovered HF Yagi antennas, and all sorts of other wonderful things. His encounters with hams were interesting too. He seemed to regard them as strange and possibly from other planets! I wonder what this guy would think if he ever travelled to the annual Dayton Hamvention? Come to think of it, isn't DAYTON near the WRIGHT PATTERSON AIR FORCE BASE where the tabloids claim the SPACE ALIEN BODIES captured in NEW MEXICO in 1949 are stored? I doubt if he realized that the HF cubical quad antenna was developed years ago at HCJB in the Andes. Didn't I see a supermarket tabloid a few years back claiming that the Andes are host to a SECRET UFO BASE? I knew there was something very strange about my hobby! 73, Tad KT7H @ N7DUO.WA.USA.NA ================End of Packet Message (fwd) -- ############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ############### ##|_|########## Bensalem, PA USA |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|########## ###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ############### #### #### snark!beyonet!beyo |when I hit the Screen" #### #### ## |_| ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project ## |_| ## ## ##-----------------------------------------------## ## #### #### Packet Radio: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.#SEPA.PA.USA.NA #### #### _###############_______________________________________________###############_ Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pitt.edu!gvls1!tredysvr!cellar!revpk From: revpk@cellar.org (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: I2 Message-ID: Date: 4 Apr 92 19:19:34 GMT References: <9204032024.AA01410@sunny.ssc.gov> Sender: bbs@cellar.UUCP (The Cellar BBS) Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system Lines: 13 borg@cy.fre.au writes: > am an alien. Are we supposed to be impressed? Brian "Rev. P-K" Siano revpk@cellar.org ...Saure really turns out to be an adept at the difficult art of papryomancy, the ability to prophesy through contemplating the way people roll reefers - the shape, the licking pattern, the wrinkles and folds or absence thereof in the paper. "You will soon be in love," sez Saure, "see, this line here." "It's long, isn't it? Does that mean --" "Length is usually intensity. Not time." -- Thomas Pynchon, _Gravity's Rainbow_ Path: ns-mx!uunet!olivea!decwrl!amdcad!netcomsv!mork!raj From: raj@netcom.com (Roger Lee) Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.alien.visitors,alt.slack,alt.stupidity,alt.exploding.kibo Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again... Message-ID: <-zlj3qq.raj@netcom.com> Date: 4 Apr 92 09:06:13 GMT References: <1992Apr1.020902.587@zip.eecs.umich.edu> <1992Apr2.015814.14003@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> <1992Apr4.004715.17931@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 72 Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2607 alt.alien.visitors:5180 alt.slack:2832 alt.stupidity:4445 alt.exploding.kibo:110 In <1992Apr4.004715.17931@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> bur@ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov (Mike Bur) writes: >In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>In article <1992Apr2.015814.14003@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> bur@ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov (Mike Bur) writes: >>>In article <1992Apr1.020902.587@zip.eecs.umich.edu> fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields) writes: >>>>In article <1992Mar31.211150.13627@cs.rose-hulman.edu> waldbyjf@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Julian F Waldby) writes: >>>>>In article <1992Mar28.192924.17253@acsu.buffalo.edu> >>>>>majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) writes: >>>>>> sramming@athena.mit.edu (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes: >>>>>> >In article <1992Mar27.033812.25302@acsu.buffalo.edu> >>>>>majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) writes: >>>>>> >>klm@gozer.mv.com (Kevin L. McBride) writes: >>>>>> >>>kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>>>> >>>> In article <1992Mar25.012450.7508@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> >>>>>press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes: >>>>>> >>>> >In article <1992Mar20.031338.3813@nntp.uoregon.edu>, >>>>>rtaylor@cie.uoregon.edu (Russ Taylor) writes: >>>>>> >>>> >> In article kibo@world.std.com (James >>>>>'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>>>> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed] >>>>>> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS. >>>>>> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper. >>>>>> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH. I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD STOP IT. >>>>>> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*. >>>>>> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but only after you >>>>>> >>>> >> added your ten cents? A thousand-degree flame on you! >>>>>> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!) >>>>>> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth? >>>>>> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich >>>>>> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width. >>>>>> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it? >>>>>> >>>> >because he made a paste of it >>>>>> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it. >>>>>> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor >>>>>> >>>> >he never was a sailor >>>>>> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer. >>>>>> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE? PLEASE EXERCISE >>>>>> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT. >>>>>> >>>Okay. >>>>>> >> Come on guys, I think he means it. Don't follow up to this. >>>>>> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious. >>>>>> >Go ahead and follow up. >>>>>> >Or kill me. >>>>>> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess. >>>>>Shhhh! >>>>>> >sramming@athena.mit.edu >>>>>> >M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming 305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge MA 02139 >>>>>> >( the nonibo -ibo ) (617) 225-9887 [home] (617) 253-7942 [office] >>>>>> No! Don't follow up to this! Whatever you do, _don't_ press >>>>>> that "f" button! It's a sin! It's a sin! This is against the gods >>>>>> of bandwidth and all that is wholly! See what you do! You waste and >>>>>> waste and waste until the unthinkable happens! Nay, until the >>>>>> _unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the >>>>>> world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up! My >>>>>> _GOD_! How can you even think it! How can you dream it and still >>>>>> remain sane?!?!? How can it be?!?!?!?! Gah!!!! >>>>>> majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu | The meek shall inherit the earth, >>>>>> v061regm@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu | and the wise keep moving on... >>>>>> Rev. M @P.O. Box 156 O |----------------------------------------- >>>>>> Amherst, NY 14226 + |Ask me about the Secret Society! Shhhh! >>>>>What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion? I >>>>>missed the earlier parts. >>>There. No more wasted "Bandwidth" >>Huh? >Duh! NOT! -- raj@netcom.com I speak for myself. COME ONE! COME ALL! COME JOIN ME AT THE CHURCH OF APPLIANTOLOGY!!! -- L. Ron Hoover Path: ns-mx!uunet!hela.iti.org!widener!beyonet!beyo From: beyo@beyonet.UUCP (Steve Urich) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: More Packet messages (fwd) Message-ID: <327@beyonet.UUCP> Date: 4 Apr 92 23:48:30 GMT Organization: Beyonet Network Lines: 85 More Amateur Radio Packet messages forwarded: MSG # TR SIZE TO FROM @BBS DATE TITLE 4530 B# 1344 UFO WQ1F ALLUSA 920404 UFO? Forwarding path: WB3EUF KA3FMO WB9TYT XF3R KA0WIN KC4CLD KP4OO KP4EDL W7LUS KB4FO WB4TEM KC4MCQ WQ1F The question is do UFOs exist and the answer is definately yes.. even if its a flock or misguided geese. The more interesting question is does intelligent life exist else where in our Universe and the answer to that question has yet to be definitively answered. Probabilities say yes,but objective evidence,to this point says no. 73 Gary (A TREKIE and UFO skeptic) *** END OF MSG # 4530 from WQ1F @ WQ1F.VT.USA.NOAM MSG # TR SIZE TO FROM @BBS DATE TITLE 4517 B# 1306 UFO WA2AEH ALLBBS 920404 UFO's Con men at work. Forwarding path: WB3EUF KA3FMO KF2AW WB2MNF KB1BD KB4CYC WA2JVM WB2HVF WA2SNA And another thing, I also believe there are many people involved in the perpetration of the UFO myth for financial reasons. UFO magazines, clubs, memorabilia and all other kinds of stuff. As to the question "Why havent they contacted us", its because there isnt anyone to contact. Any pre- conceived perseptions you may have of this is purely imaginary. It really doesnt matter if the street is black or white, does it exist at all. Why if a UFO landed on a baby carriage would the President of the US lose the election? You see it "Just Doesnt Matter" -- "It Just Doesnt Matter". What you or I think is purely imaginary. Nothing exist except in the mind. Its all an illusion as is life itself. *** END OF MSG # 4517 from WA2AEH @ WA2SNA.NJ.USA.NA MSG # TR SIZE TO FROM @BBS DATE TITLE 4516 B# 1177 UFO WA2AEH ALLBBS 920404 UFO's - BUNK Forwarding path: WB3EUF KA3FMO KF2AW WB2MNF KB1BD KB4CYC WA2JVM WB2HVF WA2SNA To All UFO believers, First of all I do not believe UFO's exist. There is at this time absolutely no evidence for them. Surely in all these years we have heard about them, there has never been one shred of physical evidence to support their existence. I believe that some have supposedly crashed. Where is the wreakage? Sure the military has it. Give us all a break. The only good quote about this whole subject came from N1API. "The Prime Directive". I loved it. I am by the way a Star Trek fan, buts lets all come back to earth. Bill (WA2AEH@WA2SNA-1.NNJ.USA.NA) *** END OF MSG # 4516 from WA2AEH @ WA2SNA.NJ.USA.NA MSG # TR SIZE TO FROM @BBS DATE TITLE 4525 B# 1206 UFO KI6CQ ALLUSA 920404 UFOs and DXCC? Forwarding path: WB3EUF KA3FMO WB9TYT KC9BK WA9KEC N9BYS W9ZMR WB9SLE WB9YAE N9HSI WB6YMH From: KI6CQ @ WB6YMH.#SOCA.CA If I contact extraterrestials, does this count for DXCC? What if there are different nations on the planet I contact -- would each count? What do I do if I am denied because noone can read the QSLs? Because interstellar travel is so expensive, I wonder if anyone with regular encounters has set up a QSL buro. If so, how do I use it? 73 Paul KI6CQ@K6VE.#SOCA.CA (hi hi) *** END OF MSG # 4525 from KI6CQ @ WB6YMH.#SOCA.CA.USA.NA -- ############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ############### ##|_|########## Bensalem, PA USA |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|########## ###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ############### #### #### snark!beyonet!beyo |when I hit the Screen" #### #### ## |_| ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project ## |_| ## ## ##-----------------------------------------------## ## #### #### Packet Radio: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.#SEPA.PA.USA.NA #### #### _###############_______________________________________________###############_ Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!jvnc.net!darwin.sura.net!ukma!widener!beyonet!beyo From: beyo@beyonet.UUCP (Steve Urich) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: UFO debate on Packet Message-ID: <325@beyonet.UUCP> Date: 4 Apr 92 17:50:26 GMT Organization: Beyonet Network Lines: 92 Been seeing alot of Trogladyte(sp?) posts here lately, where have all the information posters gone? I just noticed a discussion going on about UFO's on Amatuer Packet Radio. Here are some of the bits. MSG # TR SIZE TO FROM @BBS DATE TITLE 4469 B# 2104 DEBATE N1FJD ALLBBS 920404 re UFOs Forwarding path: KB2NEX WB2QJA K2KJC WB2IBO N2BQF KC2FD W2JUP N4GAA W1NY WB1DSW KA1PEP NS1N KQ1K Hello, My name is Mark Geisler and I also believe that UFOs do exist. I also believe there is inteligent life on other planets on other solar systems. Among the billions of billions of stars, certainly there has to be at least one other if not more solar systems with another planet where there is intelegent life. I find to be an awfully arogent attitude to believe that the planet earth is the only planet with us so called inteligent human beings. We have sent probes out into space to investigate a minute speck of infinite outer space. What is to say that some of those sightings of UFOs are not actully probes from other inteligent beings on distent planets of galaxies that are yet to be discovered as our technology developes ever further. On the walls of caves dated back to days of prehistoric man there have been paintings of strange vessels in the sky. There have even been paintings of beings in what resembles space suits and helmets. There are many things that are still unexplained and unfamiliar to us. I will tell you a strange experience I once More? had in another packet message. Keep this discussion going. 73 MARK N1FJD @ KG1K DENNIS *** END OF MSG # 4469 from N1FJD @ KQ1K.MA.USA.NA MSG # TR SIZE TO FROM @BBS DATE TITLE 4456 B# 1003 ALL N1API ALLBBS 920404 UFO's why haven't they contated us? Forwarding path: WB3EUF N3FOA N3DFD KF2AW WB2MNF KB1BD KB4CYC WA2JVM W2NRE WB2QJA N1API N1IKO posed the question that if they are out there "How come they don't contact us direct.." Any Star Trek fan knows the answer, "The Prime Directive", OM. Whether it's written in English, or Vulcan, or Romulin it's still the Prime Directive! *** END OF MSG # 4456 from N1API @ N1API.CT.USA.NA MSG # TR SIZE TO FROM @BBS DATE TITLE 4380 B# 2379 DEBATE N1KIO ALLBBS 920403 RE : WZ1F AND UFO's Forwarding path: KB2NEX WB2QJA K2KJC WB2IBO N2BQF KC2FD W2JUP N4GAA W1NY WB1DSW WA1WOK In reply to WZ1F's query about " UFO's". What I believe that he is looking for is someone who has talked on Ham Radio to one. Lee truly believes in UFO's and would like to prove it. As another believer in exterestial intelligence, I would also be interested in hearing about things like that. Now all of us know that the universe is a lot larger then we can understand. And most of it is a lot older then our little part of it. So it stands to reason that there must be other intelligent lifeforms out there. I believe that there is even civilizations that are far in advance of ours. Why can't these lifeforms have visited our planet to learn about us ? I think that they have many times. Ahhhh... E=mc2 you say... Well not so long ago we believed that man couldn't travel faster then sound. We sure travel a lot faster then that now. Lightspeed, someday we will travel faster then that also. And so must our visitors. Why are they here ? Well if it were us.. because they want to More? learn. Scientific Curosity. Plain and simple. We do it all the time. How come they don't contact us direct.. Well if you were from a civilazation that was far in advanced of us, would you want a warlike agressive lifeform like us to know about us ? I think not ! There have been so many sightings over the years that there must be something to it. But in all these years, I have never once heard of someone talking to them by radio. Have any of you ?? Well here is another good subject for debate.. Lets hear from the rest of you.... KEEP THE DEBATES GOING 73 TOM N1KIO *** END OF MSG # 4380 from N1KIO @ WA1WOK.NH.USA.NA -- ############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ############### ##|_|########## Bensalem, PA USA |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|########## ###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ############### #### #### snark!beyonet!beyo |when I hit the Screen" #### #### ## |_| ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project ## |_| ## ## ##-----------------------------------------------## ## #### #### Packet Radio: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.#EPA.PA.USA.NA #### #### _###############_______________________________________________###############_ Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!cunews!nrcnet0!bnrgate!bmerh2!bmerh327!snark From: snark@bmerh327.BNR.CA (Eric Nelson) Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.alien.visitors,alt.slack,alt.stupidity,alt.exploding.kibo Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again... Message-ID: <1992Apr04.184809.15636@bmerh2.bnr.ca> Date: 4 Apr 92 18:48:09 GMT References: <1992Apr1.020902.587@zip.eecs.umich.edu> <1992Apr2.015814.14003@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> <1992Apr4.004715.17931@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> <-zlj3qq.raj@netcom.com> Sender: news@bmerh2.bnr.ca (Usenet News Admin) Reply-To: snark@bnr.ca Organization: BNR Ottawa, Fiber Systems Development Lines: 81 Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2610 alt.alien.visitors:5183 alt.slack:2836 alt.stupidity:4448 alt.exploding.kibo:111 >>>>>'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>>>> No! Don't follow up to this! Whatever you do, _don't_ press >>>>>> Amherst, NY 14226 + |Ask me about the Secret Society! Shhhh! >>>>>> >( the nonibo -ibo ) (617) 225-9887 [home] (617) 253-7942 [office] >>>>>> >> Come on guys, I think he means it. Don't follow up to this. >>>>>> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!) >>>>>> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS. >>>>>> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH. I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD STOP IT. >>>>>> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper. >>>>>> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*. >>>>>> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it? >>>>>> >>>> >> In article kibo@world.std.com (James >>>>>> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor >>>>>> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but only after you >>>>>> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed] >>>>>> >>>> >> added your ten cents? A thousand-degree flame on you! >>>>>> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth? >>>>>> >>>> >In article <1992Mar20.031338.3813@nntp.uoregon.edu>, >>>>>> >>>> >because he made a paste of it >>>>>> >>>> >he never was a sailor >>>>>> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich >>>>>> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width. >>>>>> >>>> In article <1992Mar25.012450.7508@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> >>>>>> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT. >>>>>> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it. >>>>>> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE? PLEASE EXERCISE >>>>>> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer. >>>>>> >>>Okay. >>>>>> >>>kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>>>> >>klm@gozer.mv.com (Kevin L. McBride) writes: >>>>>> >Go ahead and follow up. >>>>>> >In article <1992Mar27.033812.25302@acsu.buffalo.edu> >>>>>> >M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming 305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge MA 02139 >>>>>> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious. >>>>>> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess. >>>>>> >Or kill me. >>>>>> >sramming@athena.mit.edu >>>>>> Rev. M @P.O. Box 156 O |----------------------------------------- >>>>>> _GOD_! How can you even think it! How can you dream it and still >>>>>> _unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the >>>>>> majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu | The meek shall inherit the earth, >>>>>> of bandwidth and all that is wholly! See what you do! You waste and >>>>>> remain sane?!?!? How can it be?!?!?!?! Gah!!!! >>>>>> sramming@athena.mit.edu (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes: >>>>>> that "f" button! It's a sin! It's a sin! This is against the gods >>>>>> v061regm@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu | and the wise keep moving on... >>>>>> waste and waste until the unthinkable happens! Nay, until the >>>>>> world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up! My >>>>>In article <1992Mar28.192924.17253@acsu.buffalo.edu> >>>>>Shhhh! >>>>>What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion? I >>>>>majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) writes: >>>>>majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) writes: >>>>>missed the earlier parts. >>>>>press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes: >>>>>rtaylor@cie.uoregon.edu (Russ Taylor) writes: >>>>In article <1992Mar31.211150.13627@cs.rose-hulman.edu> waldbyjf@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Julian F Waldby) writes: >>>In article <1992Apr1.020902.587@zip.eecs.umich.edu> fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields) writes: >>>There. No more wasted "Bandwidth" >>Huh? >>In article <1992Apr2.015814.14003@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> bur@ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov (Mike Bur) writes: >Duh! >In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: NOT! unix> sort message > the.cascade.from.hell I sorted it all out, heh heh heh, my fee is $20. Send it soon or kill me. Or feed me chruch food you pink bastards. Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!pacbell.com!att!princeton!udel!darwin.sura.net!Sirius.dfn.de!zrz.tu-berlin.de!harti From: harti@mikro.ee.tu-berlin.de (Stefan Hartmann) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,comp.graphics,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: Please DON'T post GIFs (was Re: New UFO-sighting color GIF-pics !) Message-ID: Date: 4 Apr 92 19:20:16 GMT References: <13402@suns9.crosfield.co.uk> <1992Apr3.231032.1@fnala.fnal.gov> Sender: news@mailgzrz.tu-berlin.de (News Manager) Distribution: tub Organization: ZRZ/TU-Berlin Lines: 43 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5184 sci.space:28787 comp.graphics:18374 alt.paranormal:4746 Nntp-Posting-Host: mikro.ee.tu-berlin.de In <1992Apr3.231032.1@fnala.fnal.gov> higgins@fnala.fnal.gov (Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey) writes: >In article <13402@suns9.crosfield.co.uk>, imt@crosfield.co.uk (ian taylor) writes: >> In article harti@mikro.ee.tu-berlin.de (Stefan Hartmann) writes: >>>Hi to all UFO-interested researchers, > [Which does not include me, a mild-mannered reader of sci.space] >>>I just uploaded a couple of new UFO-sighting color GIF-pics [...] >> >> THIS IS VERY EXCITING! Unfortunately this is not use at all to those of us with >> no remote ftp capability!!! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE post these pictures, either >> to alt.alien.visitors, or alt.binaries.pictures, to ensure that everyone gets >> to see them!!! >> Please someone, post these pics!! >PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, Stefan, and everybody else, >do NOT, I repeat, do *NOT* post these to sci.space, comp.graphics, or >any other newsgroup not primarily devoted to UFO matters!!! We don't >want to see them (if we did, we would look in the saucer groups), and >we don't want our in-boxes choked with pixels. >I rather suspect that if some kind soul e-mailed the GIFs to Ian, he >would calm down quite a bit. (-: > O~~* /_) ' / / /_/ ' , , ' ,_ _ \|/ > - ~ -~~~~~~~~~~~/_) / / / / / / (_) (_) / / / _\~~~~~~~~~~~zap! > / \ (_) (_) / | \ > | | Bill Higgins Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory > \ / Bitnet: HIGGINS@FNALB.BITNET > - - Internet: HIGGINS@FNAL.FNAL.GOV > ~ SPAN/Hepnet: 43011::HIGGINS Well, I will post them only to alt.binaries.pictures.misc soon, when I have more time to uuencode them. BTW, is there any automatic post-tool, that let me uuencode, split and post binary files automatically and not by hand ? Any help would be greatly appreciated ! Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for Decentral Energy Research email to: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de Path: ns-mx!uunet!psinntp!vaxsar.vassar.edu!selucey From: selucey@vaxsar.vassar.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Man on MARS? Message-ID: <1992Apr3.175942.325@vaxsar.vassar.edu> Date: 3 Apr 92 07:59:42 GMT Organization: Vassar College Lines: 15 I'd like to throw this open to general comment: A friedn of mine was visiting Pittsburgh, PA to have a Unimation industrial robot repaired and he stopped into a museum or conference center (don't remember which.) He said that the individuals running the conference showed a video of some "recent" NASA photos of the surface of Mars which had been computer "enhanced." These photos evidently revealed either some sort of statue or land design that resembled (after enhancement) a human face. I believe the conference was called the FACE ON MARS or some such... Can anyone give me more info... Sounds to me like this was a case of fooling around with image enhancing to drum up public opinion and thus support for a Mars mission? Any comments? Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!math.fu-berlin.de!news.netmbx.de!zelator!leo From: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de (Stefan Hartmann) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Man on MARS? Message-ID: Date: 5 Apr 92 14:01:11 GMT References: <1992Apr3.175942.325@vaxsar.vassar.edu> Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System Lines: 41 In <1992Apr3.175942.325@vaxsar.vassar.edu> selucey@vaxsar.vassar.edu writes: >I'd like to throw this open to general comment: >A friedn of mine was visiting Pittsburgh, PA to have a Unimation industrial >robot repaired and he stopped into a museum or conference center (don't >remember which.) >He said that the individuals running the conference showed a video of some >"recent" NASA photos of the surface of Mars which had been computer "enhanced." >These photos evidently revealed either some sort of statue or land design that >resembled (after enhancement) a human face. >I believe the conference was called the FACE ON MARS or some such... >Can anyone give me more info... Sounds to me like this was a case of fooling >around with image enhancing to drum up public opinion and thus support for a >Mars mission? Any comments? Hi, it seems you are new to this newsgroup. There was lately a big discussion in various groups over here abou the Mars face and the Mars pyramids. Have a look via anonymous FTP to phoenix.oulu.fi (130.231.240.17) There is inside directory /pub/ufo_and_space_pics the original and enhanced photos of the Mars face and pyramids !! BTW, I would like to know the final statement from NASA, what is their official plan to take pictures from the Cyndonia region again at their upcoming MARS OBSERVER mission, which is going to lauch this fall??? Will they also take pictures again from the face and pyramids ? Best regards, Stefan Hartmnn. -- ******************************************************************************* * Stefan Hartmann This is how to contact me: * * EMAIL: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de * * Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79 * ******************************************************************************* Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!munnari.oz.au!uunet!polari!rwing!fylz!eskimo!delisle From: delisle@eskimo.celestial.com (Ben Delisle) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: I2 Message-ID: <1992Apr5.074045.5150@eskimo.celestial.com> Date: 5 Apr 92 07:40:45 GMT References: <9204032024.AA01410@sunny.ssc.gov> Organization: Core Dump Apperciation Society Lines: 18 borg@cy.fre.au writes: > am an alien. Of coarse You are, every time You cross a state or national border You become an alien. The real question is, are You an illegal or not? ;> BTW: I wonder what the I.N.S. policy in dealing with E.T.aliens will be if or when they appear or are caught, and what kind of deportation proceedings could happen, (It may be easy to toss some one over a border, but how can they toss some one off the Earth or out of the Solaris star system?). -- +-(c)--------------------------+ Information is the root of knowledge. | delisle@eskimo.celestial.com | Action is the root of experience. +------------------------------+ Illusion is the root of reality. Path: ns-mx!uunet!verifone.com!ed_l1 From: ed_l1@verifone.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal Subject: On cooperation Message-ID: <1992Apr3.162655.4002@verifone.com> Date: 4 Apr 92 02:26:55 GMT Organization: VeriFone Inc., Honolulu HI Lines: 69 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5188 talk.religion.newage:9988 alt.paranormal:4747 >Cooperation. Working together. Helping each other. > ;Um, helping each other do what? BECOME AS GOOD OR BETTER THAN YOU? ;Cooperating means giving up something you want because someone else ;wants it. If _everyone_ cooperates, what difference will it make to ;the general well-being of the world. We'd be in a stagnant steady-state. Good question, Jim. Let me relate something that came up in discussion recently. A good friend of mine declined to join this movement, and I asked him why. He said that cooperation was not possible, because there are opposing goals. As an example, he cited the spotted owl and the clear-cut loggers. The loggers want to clear-cut and the owl (assumed) wants to live. The protestors want to stop the loggers so that the owl will live. So there can BE no cooperation! Imagine if all the protest energy went instead into discovering a means by which the loggers could meet their economic needs without clear-cutting. The loggers don't want to kill the owl (though they shoot them so that what they see as the "problem" will be eliminated), they want to make money from logging. The protestors don't want to protest, they want to save an endangered species (and stop a devestating process). If they cooperated in finding a solution to their colletive problems, they might even find one. Cooperation doesn't mean giving up something that someone else wants, it means helping each other find suitable goals to solve problems. Compromise is each side giving up a little, cooperation is both sides getting what they want. This will not create stagnation, but growth. >When enough people (or anything else) cooperate, a force is >created that cannot be withstood by all of the competition in the world. ;Care to elaborate on this "force?" Gladly. If some of us cooperate, and we are able to be more satisfied, more efficient and more productive than those who don't cooperate, then everyone else will be motivated into cooperation rather than competition. By cooperation we don't mean giving up your individuality. You can be who you are, without changing that, and still work with other people toward mutual benefit. This network wouldn't be here without cooperation! You wouldn't be reading this notice, and wouldn't have read the first one. So tell me: what else do you need to convince you? Ed. -- =========================================================================== || Ed L'Esperance - P.O. Box 4635, Kane`ohe, Hawai`i 96744 U.S.A. Earth || || Anthropologist, Writer, Editor -*- IN%"Ed_L1@VeriFone.Com" || || Opinions Copyright (c) 1992 Ed L'Esperance. All Rights Reserved || =========================================================================== Press RETURN for more... Path: ns-mx!uunet!verifone.com!ed_l1 From: ed_l1@verifone.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: On cooperation Message-ID: <1992Apr3.163038.4004@verifone.com> Date: 4 Apr 92 02:30:37 GMT Organization: VeriFone Inc., Honolulu HI Lines: 81 >Cooperation. Working together. Helping each other. > ;Um, helping each other do what? BECOME AS GOOD OR BETTER THAN YOU? ;Cooperating means giving up something you want because someone else ;wants it. If _everyone_ cooperates, what difference will it make to ;the general well-being of the world. We'd be in a stagnant steady-state. Good question, Jim. Let me relate something that came up in discussion recently. A good friend of mine declined to join this movement, and I asked him why. He said that cooperation was not possible, because there are opposing goals. As an example, he cited the spotted owl and the clear-cut loggers. The loggers want to clear-cut and the owl (assumed) wants to live. The protestors want to stop the loggers so that the owl will live. So there can BE no cooperation! Imagine if all the protest energy went instead into discovering a means by which the loggers could meet their economic needs without clear-cutting. The loggers don't want to kill the owl (though they shoot them so that what they see as the "problem" will be eliminated), they want to make money from logging. The protestors don't want to protest, they want to save an endangered species (and stop a devestating process). If they cooperated in finding a solution to their colletive problems, they might even find one. Cooperation doesn't mean giving up something that someone else wants, it means helping each other find suitable goals to solve problems. Compromise is each side giving up a little, cooperation is both sides getting what they want. This will not create stagnation, but growth. >When enough people (or anything else) cooperate, a force is >created that cannot be withstood by all of the competition in the world. ;Care to elaborate on this "force?" Gladly. If some of us cooperate, and we are able to be more satisfied, more efficient and more productive than those who don't cooperate, then everyone else will be motivated into cooperation rather than competition. > >My bumper sticker: > >------------------------------- >|I'm been Committed, have you?| >| Peace through Cooperation | >------------------------------- The natural reaction is to strike out at the things we fear. It's OK. I'm not offended Jim, I'm amused. It's actually kind of cute, and it is certainly not unexpected. By cooperation we don't mean giving up your individuality. You can be who you are, without changing that, and still work with other people toward mutual benefit. This network wouldn't be here without cooperation! You wouldn't be reading this notice, and wouldn't have read the first one. So tell me: what else do you need to convince you? Ed. -- =========================================================================== || Ed L'Esperance - P.O. Box 4635, Kane`ohe, Hawai`i 96744 U.S.A. Earth || || Anthropologist, Writer, Editor -*- IN%"Ed_L1@VeriFone.Com" || || Opinions Copyright (c) 1992 Ed L'Esperance. All Rights Reserved || =========================================================================== Press RETURN for more... Path: ns-mx!uunet!psinntp!digex!andy From: andy@access.digex.com (Andrew M Cohn) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Great book to read! Message-ID: <1992Apr4.140416.26530@access.digex.com> Date: 4 Apr 92 14:04:16 GMT Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, Maryland USA Lines: 7 Want to read a fun book about alien visitors? Check out Sidney Sheldon's latest novel entitled "The Doomsday Conspiracy". It's a real page-turner... part spy thriller, part UFO, and a real departure for Sheldon. My favorite part was when a horny pickup artist bumps (literally) into a lost, dazed alien on the street and takes her to a hotel. She goes to turn out the light and...well, you'll just have to read it for yourself. I found my copy in a local library...finished it in one sitting. Great! Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!anasaz!qip!billy From: billy@anasaz (Bill Moore) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: It seems kinda simple to me. Message-ID: <1992Apr5.204639.11982@anasaz> Date: 5 Apr 92 20:46:39 GMT References: <1992Apr2.231642.2233@ducvax.auburn.edu> <6572@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> Organization: Anasazi, Inc. Phoenix, Az Lines: 35 In article <6572@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> mitch@mott.seas.ucla.edu (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin)) writes: ->In article <1992Apr2.231642.2233@ducvax.auburn.edu> forrepr@eng.auburn.edu writes: ->>Ya know, what I can't figure is why some of these UFO-abduction ->>investigators haven't tried some other means (besides hypnotism) ->>of proving their case. If someone came to me and told me they were -> ->[Several scenarios deleted...] -> ->How about using a "control group" of people who claim _not_ to ->have had an abduction experience or missing time episode? ->Would they suddenly begin "remembering" such episodes when ->placed under hypnosis? A "false positive" result would certainly ->cast aspersions on the value of hypnosis as a tool. -> Well, most "abductees" don't calim to have been abducted until AFTER they're hypnotised so they would fall into the control group to start with. Unfortunately, most of the really good abduction stories are illicited by unprofessional hypnotists and transcripts (when available) of the sessions usually indicate significant suggestion by the hypnotist. I don't know of any important cases where a professional (ie, psychiatrist, doctor, etc.) with no interest in UFOs has reported an "abduction" story. Bud Hopkins, for example, goes around the country hypnotizing people BEFORE he brings them to a real hypnotist and then gets paid for the books he writes about it. >-- >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >DISCLAIMER: >"Don't blame _me_, _I_ didn't do it!" --Krusty the Clown >"Ididn'tdoitnobodysawmeyoucan'tproveanything!" --Bartman -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bill Moore billy%anasaz.UUCP@asuvax.eas.asu.edu (602) 395-1732 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!munnari.oz.au!metro!seagoon.newcastle.edu.au!cc.newcastle.edu.au!ccasm From: ccasm@cc.newcastle.edu.au Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Abductions and Visitations Message-ID: <1992Apr6.153352.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> Date: 6 Apr 92 05:33:52 GMT References: <=h9hjhjnoring@netcom.com> <1359@transfer.stratus.com> Sender: news@seagoon.newcastle.edu.au Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA Lines: 11 In article , dyett@phad.hsc.usc.edu > (Donald Yett) writes: > Obviously you are not a scientist! A true scientist must believe that > anything is possible, and then attempt to prove himself right or wrong. > I choose to take the assumption that you do exist. PROOVE IT! > I also believe that anything is possible until it can be proven otherwise. PROOVE IT! Path: ns-mx!uunet!cbmvax!snark!beyonet!beyo From: beyo@beyonet.UUCP (Steve Urich) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: More Packet messages (fwd) Message-ID: <328@beyonet.UUCP> Date: 5 Apr 92 06:28:30 GMT References: <327@beyonet.UUCP> Organization: Beyonet Network Lines: 38 MSG # TR SIZE TO FROM @BBS DATE TITLE 4574 B$ 3325 DEBATE KA1ULT ALLUS 920404 UFOs: But seriously, folks... Forwarding path: WB3EUF KA3FMO NO8M WA8BXN WB8LVP W3IXR KA3OEM NM3G KA3SFC VE3SNP VE3OY VE3FJB VE3KYT VE3NAV VE2FKB VE2CEV VE2CRL VE2CSC WA2SPL K1RQG WA1WOK WB1DSW K1UGM WA1PHY Okay, so I made my wisecrack about there always being objects in the sky that I can't identify. Now my real opinion on aliens and stuff like that: I BELIEVE! I think Mark, N1FJD, explained my reasons better than I can here. If I remember right, I think that the great Gene Roddenberry himself once figured that if you take all the planets in the galaxy and call most of them uninhabitable, or having no intelligent life, or having intelligent life that destroyed itself already, etc. etc. etc. there are still well over 3 MILLION planets out there that could support civilized, intelligent life. That's as xxx a lot of possibilities! And with that many, I can't imagine that we're alone. I suppose that maybe they have their own "Prime Directive," which is to not interfere with lesser developed cultures, such as ours. Maybe when mankind matures enough they will make contact. Or maybe Douglas Adams's vision will come true - the dolphins will leave just before the Earth is destroyed to make way for a hyperspatial bypass five minutes before the ultimate question of Life, the Universe, and Everything is determined! (The answer has already been established as 42...) I don't buy a lot of these stories about how aliens come down and tell people to be excellent to each other, but I do believe that somewhere out there someone is watching us - maybe listening to our radio transmissions - maybe receiving this very debate right now! Yet another reason to compose packet messages well - aliens are watching! :-) That's my view - let's hear yours! 73 - Justin, KA1ULT @ WA1PHY.#EMA.MA.USA.NA.EARTH.UNFDPL.MLKYWY *** END OF MSG # 4574 from KA1ULT @ WA1PHY.#EMA.MA.USA.NA -- ############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ############### ##|_|########## Bensalem, PA USA |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|########## ###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ############### #### #### snark!beyonet!beyo |when I hit the Screen" #### #### ## |_| ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project ## |_| ## ## ##-----------------------------------------------## ## #### #### Packet Radio: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.#SEPA.PA.USA.NA #### #### _###############_______________________________________________###############_ Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!cmcl2!sbcs.sunysb.edu!csws17.ic.sunysb.edu!dtiberio From: dtiberio@csws17.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: I2 Message-ID: <1992Apr5.095519.15121@sbcs.sunysb.edu> Date: 5 Apr 92 09:55:19 GMT References: <9204032024.AA01410@sunny.ssc.gov> Sender: usenet@sbcs.sunysb.edu (Usenet poster) Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook Lines: 14 Nntp-Posting-Host: csws17.ic.sunysb.edu In article <9204032024.AA01410@sunny.ssc.gov> borg@cy.fre.au writes: >am an alien. I am a UFO. -- // David Tiberio SUNY Stony Brook 2-3662 AMIGA DDD-MEN // Not the llama! Come here Earl; I want to tell you something... \X/ Liverpool, New York Yes, I like 3D. Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!tulane!ukma!nsisrv!usenet From: bur@soil.gsfc.nasa.gov (Mike Bur) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.slack,alt.stupidity,alt.exploding.kibo,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again... Message-ID: <1992Apr6.132332.22099@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> Date: 6 Apr 92 13:23:32 GMT References: <1992Apr4.004715.17931@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> <-zlj3qq.raj@netcom.com> Sender: usenet@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov (Usenet) Organization: NASA/GSFC code 923 Lines: 68 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5195 alt.slack:2859 alt.stupidity:4465 alt.exploding.kibo:114 alt.religion.kibology:1472 Nntp-Posting-Host: soil.gsfc.nasa.gov In article <-zlj3qq.raj@netcom.com> raj@netcom.com (Roger Lee) writes: >In <1992Apr4.004715.17931@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> bur@ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov (Mike Bur) writes: > >>In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>In article <1992Apr2.015814.14003@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> bur@ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov (Mike Bur) writes: >>>>In article <1992Apr1.020902.587@zip.eecs.umich.edu> fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields) writes: >>>>>In article <1992Mar31.211150.13627@cs.rose-hulman.edu> waldbyjf@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Julian F Waldby) writes: >>>>>>In article <1992Mar28.192924.17253@acsu.buffalo.edu> >>>>>>majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) writes: >>>>>>> sramming@athena.mit.edu (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes: >>>>>>> >In article <1992Mar27.033812.25302@acsu.buffalo.edu> >>>>>>majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) writes: >>>>>>> >>klm@gozer.mv.com (Kevin L. McBride) writes: >>>>>>> >>>kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>>>>> >>>> In article <1992Mar25.012450.7508@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> >>>>>>press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes: >>>>>>> >>>> >In article <1992Mar20.031338.3813@nntp.uoregon.edu>, >>>>>>rtaylor@cie.uoregon.edu (Russ Taylor) writes: >>>>>>> >>>> >> In article kibo@world.std.com (James >>>>>>'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>>>>> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed] >>>>>>> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS. >>>>>>> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper. >>>>>>> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH. I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD STOP IT. >>>>>>> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*. >>>>>>> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but only after you >>>>>>> >>>> >> added your ten cents? A thousand-degree flame on you! >>>>>>> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!) >>>>>>> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth? >>>>>>> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich >>>>>>> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width. >>>>>>> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it? >>>>>>> >>>> >because he made a paste of it >>>>>>> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it. >>>>>>> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor >>>>>>> >>>> >he never was a sailor >>>>>>> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer. >>>>>>> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE? PLEASE EXERCISE >>>>>>> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT. >>>>>>> >>>Okay. >>>>>>> >> Come on guys, I think he means it. Don't follow up to this. >>>>>>> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious. >>>>>>> >Go ahead and follow up. >>>>>>> >Or kill me. >>>>>>> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess. >>>>>>Shhhh! >>>>>>> >sramming@athena.mit.edu >>>>>>> >M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming 305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge MA 02139 >>>>>>> >( the nonibo -ibo ) (617) 225-9887 [home] (617) 253-7942 [office] >>>>>>> No! Don't follow up to this! Whatever you do, _don't_ press >>>>>>> that "f" button! It's a sin! It's a sin! This is against the gods >>>>>>> of bandwidth and all that is wholly! See what you do! You waste and >>>>>>> waste and waste until the unthinkable happens! Nay, until the >>>>>>> _unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the >>>>>>> world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up! My >>>>>>> _GOD_! How can you even think it! How can you dream it and still >>>>>>> remain sane?!?!? How can it be?!?!?!?! Gah!!!! >>>>>>> majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu | The meek shall inherit the earth, >>>>>>> v061regm@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu | and the wise keep moving on... >>>>>>> Rev. M @P.O. Box 156 O |----------------------------------------- >>>>>>> Amherst, NY 14226 + |Ask me about the Secret Society! Shhhh! >>>>>>What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion? I >>>>>>missed the earlier parts. >>>>There. No more wasted "Bandwidth" >>>Huh? >>Duh! >NOT! Got. Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!yale.edu!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!wharton.upenn.edu!millerl From: millerl@wharton.upenn.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: It seems kinda simple to me. Message-ID: <1992Apr6.103809.1@wharton.upenn.edu> Date: 6 Apr 92 15:38:09 GMT References: <1992Apr2.231642.2233@ducvax.auburn.edu> <6572@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> Sender: news@netnews.upenn.edu Organization: Newt World Order Lines: 19 Nntp-Posting-Host: fred.wharton.upenn.edu In article <6572@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU>, mitch@mott.seas.ucla.edu (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin)) writes: > How about using a "control group" of people who claim _not_ to > have had an abduction experience or missing time episode? > Would they suddenly begin "remembering" such episodes when > placed under hypnosis? A "false positive" result would certainly > cast aspersions on the value of hypnosis as a tool. This has been done, and the abduction theorists claimed that the newly remembered abductions proved that the problem was even more widespread than they had thought. The same thing happens with hypnotic regression to recall satanist abuse, and hypnotic regression to remember childhood sexual abuse, and so on. Hypnosis is a powerful tool to change what people think; abduction theorists, among others, seem to forget this. -- whoah, +++++++++++++++++++++++23 Loren Miller internet: MILLERL@wharton.upenn.edu Throw this screen against the wall, right now! Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!decwrl!pa.dec.com!shodha.enet.dec.com!timpson From: timpson@shodha.enet.dec.com (Steve Timpson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: I2 Message-ID: <6442@shodha.enet.dec.com> Date: 6 Apr 92 13:58:22 GMT Sender: news@shodha.enet.dec.com Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 6 In article <9204032024.AA01410@sunny.ssc.gov>, borg@cy.fre.au writes... >am an alien. Good for you! Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!ames!agate!cogsci.Berkeley.EDU!radzy From: radzy@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Tim Omelan Radzykewycz) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: On cooperation Message-ID: Date: 6 Apr 92 15:37:50 GMT References: <1992Apr3.162655.4002@verifone.com> Organization: Institute of Cognitive Studies, U.C. Berkeley Lines: 35 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5198 talk.religion.newage:9992 alt.paranormal:4750 NNTP-Posting-Host: cogsci.berkeley.edu In article <1992Apr3.162655.4002@verifone.com> ed_l1@verifone.com writes: > Cooperation doesn't mean giving up something that someone else wants, > it means helping each other find suitable goals to solve problems. > Compromise is each side giving up a little, cooperation is both sides > getting what they want. This will not create stagnation, but growth. Not only will cooperation create growth instead of creating stagnation, lack of cooperation will create the stagnation! Using the same example (owl v.s. logger): If the loggers and environmentalists cooperate, then things will change somewhat, because they adopt new policies or new technologies or SOMETHING, to enable them to achieve both goals. If the loggers and environmentalists do NOT cooperate, then things may remain the same: the loggers will continue to clear-cut, and the environmentalists will continue to protest. (Disclaimer: it is still possible for things to change through some other mechanism, such as legislation.) In any case, cooperation does not create stagnation, and will probably increase growth, possibly after a small initial cost. ------------------------------------------------------------ | -- radzy | | An it harm none, Tim Omelan Radzykewycz | do as ye will. The Incredible Radical Cabbage | | radzy@cogsci.berkeley.edu | | ------------------------------------------------------------ > Hi! I am a .signature virus. Copy me into your .signature to join in! Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!darwin.sura.net!uvaarpa!murdoch!newton.acc.Virginia.EDU!jmb5b From: jmb5b@newton.acc.Virginia.EDU (John M. Bozeman) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage Subject: New Age/Christian Survey -Help! Message-ID: <1992Apr4.034708.18373@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> Date: 4 Apr 92 03:47:08 GMT References: <16MAR199218013175@cc.weber.edu> <1992Mar26.212938.27474@tc.fluke.COM> <30MAR199213053641@cc.weber.edu> Sender: usenet@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU Organization: University of Virginia Lines: 55 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5199 alt.pagan:14073 alt.paranormal:4751 talk.religion.newage:9993 Ireallyam: jmb5b I am about to give a guest lecture to a sociology class at the University of Virginia. The Topic: "Christianity and the New Age Look at Each Other." When Writing about such subjects, I like to talk to the people who actually practice the faith. So I would like to ask anyone who would care to answer... 1. What makes a person a Christian? 2. What makes a person a follower of the New Age? 3. What do you think of evangelical-fundamentalist-charismatic-- pentecostal Christians? 4. What do you think of mainline Protestant Christianity (i.e., Methodists, Lutherans, Presbyterians, etc.) 5. What do you think of Catholics? 6. What do you think of channeling? meditation? pyramids? Tarot cards? astrology? crystals? UFO's? 7. Who or what is God? Who is/was Jesus? Who or what is the Holy Spirit? Do you think the literal Resurrection of Jesus literally took place? What do you think is the meaning of the resurrection? 8. Do you think Jesus will come again? What do you think of the Bible? 9. Why do you consider yourself a follower of the New Age? What do you think is (are) the central tenets of your beliefs? How did you come to hold these beliefs? Are you a member of any formal religious group(s)? Which ones? 10. What is your age? sex? Occupation? [Optional, for statistical use only: are you single-married-divorced-widowed- living with someone-under a vow of celibacy? hetero-homo-bisexual? What race do you describe yourself as?] 11. [More optional questions: What happens to us when we die? What makes an individual good or bad? Do you think that there is an absolute standard of right and wrong? What do you think are the central problems of American and World society? How does your faith address these problems, if at all? Do you think that your faith is the only way to salvation or self-fulfillment? Is it the best way? ------------------ Thank you for your time. I may wish to quote from this material in class and/or (maybe) in a later scholarly work; quotation will be anonymous if requested. As I mentioned above, sensitive material is for statistical use only. John Bozeman (jmb5b@virginia.edu) (jmb5b@virginia.edu.bitnet) Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Don Ecker and Phil Klass!! Message-ID: <123584.29DD28FF@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 4 Apr 92 02:50:00 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - Date: 6 Apr 92 16:12:07 GMT References: <1992Apr4.004715.17931@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> <-zlj3qq.raj@netcom.com> <1992Apr6.132332.22099@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> Sender: news@u.washington.edu (USENET News System) Organization: University of Washington Lines: 71 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5201 alt.slack:2861 alt.stupidity:4470 alt.exploding.kibo:118 alt.religion.kibology:1477 bur@soil.gsfc.nasa.gov (Mike Bur) writes: >In article <-zlj3qq.raj@netcom.com> raj@netcom.com (Roger Lee) writes: >>In <1992Apr4.004715.17931@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> bur@ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov (Mike Bur) writes: >> >>>In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>>In article <1992Apr2.015814.14003@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> bur@ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov (Mike Bur) writes: >>>>>In article <1992Apr1.020902.587@zip.eecs.umich.edu> fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields) writes: >>>>>>In article <1992Mar31.211150.13627@cs.rose-hulman.edu> waldbyjf@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Julian F Waldby) writes: >>>>>>>In article <1992Mar28.192924.17253@acsu.buffalo.edu> >>>>>>>majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) writes: >>>>>>>> sramming@athena.mit.edu (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes: >>>>>>>> >In article <1992Mar27.033812.25302@acsu.buffalo.edu> >>>>>>>majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) writes: >>>>>>>> >>klm@gozer.mv.com (Kevin L. McBride) writes: >>>>>>>> >>>kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>>>>>> >>>> In article <1992Mar25.012450.7508@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> >>>>>>>press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes: >>>>>>>> >>>> >In article <1992Mar20.031338.3813@nntp.uoregon.edu>, >>>>>>>rtaylor@cie.uoregon.edu (Russ Taylor) writes: >>>>>>>> >>>> >> In article kibo@world.std.com (James >>>>>>>'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>>>>>> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed] >>>>>>>> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS. >>>>>>>> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper. >>>>>>>> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH. I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD STOP IT. >>>>>>>> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*. >>>>>>>> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but only after you >>>>>>>> >>>> >> added your ten cents? A thousand-degree flame on you! >>>>>>>> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!) >>>>>>>> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth? >>>>>>>> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich >>>>>>>> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width. >>>>>>>> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it? >>>>>>>> >>>> >because he made a paste of it >>>>>>>> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it. >>>>>>>> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor >>>>>>>> >>>> >he never was a sailor >>>>>>>> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer. >>>>>>>> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE? PLEASE EXERCISE >>>>>>>> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT. >>>>>>>> >>>Okay. >>>>>>>> >> Come on guys, I think he means it. Don't follow up to this. >>>>>>>> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious. >>>>>>>> >Go ahead and follow up. >>>>>>>> >Or kill me. >>>>>>>> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess. >>>>>>>Shhhh! >>>>>>>> >sramming@athena.mit.edu >>>>>>>> >M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming 305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge MA 02139 >>>>>>>> >( the nonibo -ibo ) (617) 225-9887 [home] (617) 253-7942 [office] >>>>>>>> No! Don't follow up to this! Whatever you do, _don't_ press >>>>>>>> that "f" button! It's a sin! It's a sin! This is against the gods >>>>>>>> of bandwidth and all that is wholly! See what you do! You waste and >>>>>>>> waste and waste until the unthinkable happens! Nay, until the >>>>>>>> _unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the >>>>>>>> world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up! My >>>>>>>> _GOD_! How can you even think it! How can you dream it and still >>>>>>>> remain sane?!?!? How can it be?!?!?!?! Gah!!!! >>>>>>>> majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu | The meek shall inherit the earth, >>>>>>>> v061regm@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu | and the wise keep moving on... >>>>>>>> Rev. M @P.O. Box 156 O |----------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> Amherst, NY 14226 + |Ask me about the Secret Society! Shhhh! >>>>>>>What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion? I >>>>>>>missed the earlier parts. >>>>>There. No more wasted "Bandwidth" >>>>Huh? >>>Duh! >>NOT! >Got. Gott. Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.uwp.edu!tamm From: tamm@cs.uwp.edu (Ernst Tamm) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.slack,alt.stupidity,alt.exploding.kibo,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again... Message-ID: <1992Apr6.171146.5558@uwm.edu> Date: 6 Apr 92 17:11:46 GMT References: <-zlj3qq.raj@netcom.com> <1992Apr6.132332.22099@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> Sender: news@uwm.edu (USENET News System) Organization: University of Wisconsin - Parkside Lines: 36 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5202 alt.slack:2863 alt.stupidity:4474 alt.exploding.kibo:122 alt.religion.kibology:1483 >>>>>>>>'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed] >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS. >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper. >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH. I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD STOP IT. >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*. >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but only after you >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> added your ten cents? A thousand-degree flame on you! >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!) >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth? >>>>>>>>> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich >>>>>>>>> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width. >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it? >>>>>>>>> >>>> >because he made a paste of it >>>>>>>>> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it. >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor >>>>>>>>> >>>> >he never was a sailor >>>>>>>>> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer. >>>>>>>>> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE? PLEASE EXERCISE >>>>>>>>> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT. >>>>>>>>> >>>Okay. >>>>>>>>> >> Come on guys, I think he means it. Don't follow up to this. >>>>>>>>> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious. >>>>>>>>> >Go ahead and follow up. >>>>>>>>> >Or kill me. >>>>>>>>> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess. >>>>>>>>Shhhh! >>>>>>>>What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion? I >>>>>>>>missed the earlier parts. >>>>>>There. No more wasted "Bandwidth" >>>>>Huh? >>>>Duh! >>>NOT! >>Got. >Gott. >>Gott-a have the last word, dontcha ?? Path: ns-mx!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!ukma!nsisrv!usenet From: bur@soil.gsfc.nasa.gov (Mike Bur) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.slack,alt.stupidity,alt.exploding.kibo,alt.religion.kibology,alt.tasteless Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again... Message-ID: <1992Apr6.165135.2982@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> Date: 6 Apr 92 16:51:35 GMT References: <-zlj3qq.raj@netcom.com> <1992Apr6.132332.22099@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> Sender: usenet@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov (Usenet) Organization: NASA/GSFC code 923 Lines: 73 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5203 alt.slack:2864 alt.stupidity:4475 alt.exploding.kibo:123 alt.religion.kibology:1484 alt.tasteless:9614 Nntp-Posting-Host: soil.gsfc.nasa.gov In article smedley@milton.u.washington.edu (William Warner) writes: >bur@soil.gsfc.nasa.gov (Mike Bur) writes: > >>In article <-zlj3qq.raj@netcom.com> raj@netcom.com (Roger Lee) writes: >>>In <1992Apr4.004715.17931@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> bur@ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov (Mike Bur) writes: >>> >>>>In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>>>In article <1992Apr2.015814.14003@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> bur@ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov (Mike Bur) writes: >>>>>>In article <1992Apr1.020902.587@zip.eecs.umich.edu> fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields) writes: >>>>>>>In article <1992Mar31.211150.13627@cs.rose-hulman.edu> waldbyjf@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Julian F Waldby) writes: >>>>>>>>In article <1992Mar28.192924.17253@acsu.buffalo.edu> >>>>>>>>majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) writes: >>>>>>>>> sramming@athena.mit.edu (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes: >>>>>>>>> >In article <1992Mar27.033812.25302@acsu.buffalo.edu> >>>>>>>>majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) writes: >>>>>>>>> >>klm@gozer.mv.com (Kevin L. McBride) writes: >>>>>>>>> >>>kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>>>>>>> >>>> In article <1992Mar25.012450.7508@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> >>>>>>>>press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes: >>>>>>>>> >>>> >In article <1992Mar20.031338.3813@nntp.uoregon.edu>, >>>>>>>>rtaylor@cie.uoregon.edu (Russ Taylor) writes: >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> In article kibo@world.std.com (James >>>>>>>>'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed] >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS. >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper. >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH. I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD STOP IT. >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*. >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but only after you >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> added your ten cents? A thousand-degree flame on you! >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!) >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth? >>>>>>>>> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich >>>>>>>>> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width. >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it? >>>>>>>>> >>>> >because he made a paste of it >>>>>>>>> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it. >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor >>>>>>>>> >>>> >he never was a sailor >>>>>>>>> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer. >>>>>>>>> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE? PLEASE EXERCISE >>>>>>>>> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT. >>>>>>>>> >>>Okay. >>>>>>>>> >> Come on guys, I think he means it. Don't follow up to this. >>>>>>>>> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious. >>>>>>>>> >Go ahead and follow up. >>>>>>>>> >Or kill me. >>>>>>>>> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess. >>>>>>>>Shhhh! >>>>>>>>> >sramming@athena.mit.edu >>>>>>>>> >M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming 305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge MA 02139 >>>>>>>>> >( the nonibo -ibo ) (617) 225-9887 [home] (617) 253-7942 [office] >>>>>>>>> No! Don't follow up to this! Whatever you do, _don't_ press >>>>>>>>> that "f" button! It's a sin! It's a sin! This is against the gods >>>>>>>>> of bandwidth and all that is wholly! See what you do! You waste and >>>>>>>>> waste and waste until the unthinkable happens! Nay, until the >>>>>>>>> _unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the >>>>>>>>> world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up! My >>>>>>>>> _GOD_! How can you even think it! How can you dream it and still >>>>>>>>> remain sane?!?!? How can it be?!?!?!?! Gah!!!! >>>>>>>>> majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu | The meek shall inherit the earth, >>>>>>>>> v061regm@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu | and the wise keep moving on... >>>>>>>>> Rev. M @P.O. Box 156 O |----------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>> Amherst, NY 14226 + |Ask me about the Secret Society! Shhhh! >>>>>>>>What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion? I >>>>>>>>missed the earlier parts. >>>>>>There. No more wasted "Bandwidth" >>>>>Huh? >>>>Duh! >>>NOT! >>Got. >Gott. cooler. Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!anson From: anson@netcom.com (Anson Kennedy) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: It seems kinda simple to me. Message-ID: <59njxv+.anson@netcom.com> Date: 6 Apr 92 15:24:50 GMT References: <1992Apr2.231642.2233@ducvax.auburn.edu> <6572@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> <1992Apr5.204639.11982@anasaz> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 37 billy@anasaz (Bill Moore) writes: >-> >->How about using a "control group" of people who claim _not_ to >->have had an abduction experience or missing time episode? >->Would they suddenly begin "remembering" such episodes when >->placed under hypnosis? A "false positive" result would certainly >->cast aspersions on the value of hypnosis as a tool. >-> >Well, most "abductees" don't calim to have been abducted until AFTER they're >hypnotised so they would fall into the control group to start with. I have heard of some research done in the 70s which involved hypnotising people who had little or no knowledge of UFOs and abductions. Apparently, under hypnosis the people all related accounts very similar to the "classic" abduction scenario. This indicates that those "classic" elements *might* be a natural response to the suggestion of being abducted. Unfortunately, I have as yet been unsuccessful in tracing this research. So it may not be too reliable. >Unfortunately, most of the really good abduction stories are illicited by >unprofessional hypnotists and transcripts (when available) of the sessions >usually indicate significant suggestion by the hypnotist. I don't know of >any important cases where a professional (ie, psychiatrist, doctor, etc.) >with no interest in UFOs has reported an "abduction" story. Bud Hopkins, for >example, goes around the country hypnotizing people BEFORE he brings them >to a real hypnotist and then gets paid for the books he writes about it. You don't mean to suggest they might be in it for the money!?! ;-) -- Anson Kennedy Secretary of the Georgia Skeptics (but don't even THINK I speak for them!) "If I had been the Virgin Mary, I would have said 'No.'" -Margaret "Stevie" Smith (1902-1971) Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!decwrl!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: It seems kinda simple to me. Message-ID: Date: 6 Apr 92 16:55:31 GMT References: <6572@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> <1992Apr5.204639.11982@anasaz> <59njxv+.anson@netcom.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 50 In article <59njxv+.anson@netcom.com> anson@netcom.com (Anson Kennedy) writes: > >I have heard of some research done in the 70s which involved hypnotising >people who had little or no knowledge of UFOs and abductions. Apparently, >under hypnosis the people all related accounts very similar to the "classic" >abduction scenario. This indicates that those "classic" elements *might* >be a natural response to the suggestion of being abducted. > >Unfortunately, I have as yet been unsuccessful in tracing this research. So >it may not be too reliable. > No, it is reliable, at least by the standards of UFOlogy, in any case. The experimenter was Alvin Lawson, a psychologist at Cal State, Long Beach. He found that people requested to simply "imagine" abductions told stories that were nearly indistinguishable from "real" UFO abductees. His conclusion was that "abduction" narratives are just a re-telling of one's memory of one's own birth, which poses a number of difficulties. Lawson's research has been published in a number of places, I don't have the references right now. >billy@anasaz (Bill Moore) writes: >>Unfortunately, most of the really good abduction stories are illicited by >>unprofessional hypnotists and transcripts (when available) of the sessions >>usually indicate significant suggestion by the hypnotist. I don't know of >>any important cases where a professional (ie, psychiatrist, doctor, etc.) >>with no interest in UFOs has reported an "abduction" story. > Have you ever heard of Betty and Barney Hill? Dr. Simon, who performed the hypnosis, was an extremely well-respected psychiatrist, at the top of his profession. One significant difference, though: Simon *didn't believe* the Hills' abduction story. He clearly stated on several occasions that, in his judgement, it was a fantasy; Betty made up the story, and told it to Barney so many times, and so convincingly, that he came to believe it, too. -- Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! "In the 1970's the world will undergo famines - hundreds of millions of people are going to starve to death in spite of any crash programs embarked upon now ... in 1985, when it is calculated [under the most optimistic scenario] that the major die-back will be over, ..." Dr. Paul Ehrlich, "The Population Bomb," 1968 Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!decwrl!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!raj From: raj@netcom.com (Roger Lee) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.slack,alt.stupidity,alt.exploding.kibo,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again... Message-ID: Date: 6 Apr 92 20:20:47 GMT References: <1992Apr4.004715.17931@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> <-zlj3qq.raj@netcom.com> <1992Apr6.132332.22099@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 77 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5206 alt.slack:2866 alt.stupidity:4479 alt.exploding.kibo:125 alt.religion.kibology:1487 In <1992Apr6.132332.22099@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> bur@soil.gsfc.nasa.gov (Mike Bur) writes: >In article <-zlj3qq.raj@netcom.com> raj@netcom.com (Roger Lee) writes: >>In <1992Apr4.004715.17931@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> bur@ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov (Mike Bur) writes: >> >>>In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>>In article <1992Apr2.015814.14003@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> bur@ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov (Mike Bur) writes: >>>>>In article <1992Apr1.020902.587@zip.eecs.umich.edu> fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields) writes: >>>>>>In article <1992Mar31.211150.13627@cs.rose-hulman.edu> waldbyjf@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Julian F Waldby) writes: >>>>>>>In article <1992Mar28.192924.17253@acsu.buffalo.edu> >>>>>>>majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) writes: >>>>>>>> sramming@athena.mit.edu (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes: >>>>>>>> >In article <1992Mar27.033812.25302@acsu.buffalo.edu> >>>>>>>majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) writes: >>>>>>>> >>klm@gozer.mv.com (Kevin L. McBride) writes: >>>>>>>> >>>kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>>>>>> >>>> In article <1992Mar25.012450.7508@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> >>>>>>>press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes: >>>>>>>> >>>> >In article <1992Mar20.031338.3813@nntp.uoregon.edu>, >>>>>>>rtaylor@cie.uoregon.edu (Russ Taylor) writes: >>>>>>>> >>>> >> In article kibo@world.std.com (James >>>>>>>'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>>>>>> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed] >>>>>>>> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS. >>>>>>>> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper. >>>>>>>> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH. I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD STOP IT. >>>>>>>> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*. >>>>>>>> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but only after you >>>>>>>> >>>> >> added your ten cents? A thousand-degree flame on you! >>>>>>>> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!) >>>>>>>> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth? >>>>>>>> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich >>>>>>>> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width. >>>>>>>> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it? >>>>>>>> >>>> >because he made a paste of it >>>>>>>> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it. >>>>>>>> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor >>>>>>>> >>>> >he never was a sailor >>>>>>>> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer. >>>>>>>> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE? PLEASE EXERCISE >>>>>>>> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT. >>>>>>>> >>>Okay. >>>>>>>> >> Come on guys, I think he means it. Don't follow up to this. >>>>>>>> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious. >>>>>>>> >Go ahead and follow up. >>>>>>>> >Or kill me. >>>>>>>> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess. >>>>>>>Shhhh! >>>>>>>> >sramming@athena.mit.edu >>>>>>>> >M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming 305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge MA 02139 >>>>>>>> >( the nonibo -ibo ) (617) 225-9887 [home] (617) 253-7942 [office] >>>>>>>> No! Don't follow up to this! Whatever you do, _don't_ press >>>>>>>> that "f" button! It's a sin! It's a sin! This is against the gods >>>>>>>> of bandwidth and all that is wholly! See what you do! You waste and >>>>>>>> waste and waste until the unthinkable happens! Nay, until the >>>>>>>> _unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the >>>>>>>> world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up! My >>>>>>>> _GOD_! How can you even think it! How can you dream it and still >>>>>>>> remain sane?!?!? How can it be?!?!?!?! Gah!!!! >>>>>>>> majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu | The meek shall inherit the earth, >>>>>>>> v061regm@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu | and the wise keep moving on... >>>>>>>> Rev. M @P.O. Box 156 O |----------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> Amherst, NY 14226 + |Ask me about the Secret Society! Shhhh! >>>>>>>What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion? I >>>>>>>missed the earlier parts. >>>>>There. No more wasted "Bandwidth" >>>>Huh? >>>Duh! >>NOT! >Got. it. -- raj@netcom.com I speak for myself. COME ONE! COME ALL! COME JOIN ME AT THE CHURCH OF APPLIANTOLOGY!!! -- L. Ron Hoover Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!jvnc.net!darwin.sura.net!udel!sbcs.sunysb.edu!csws17.ic.sunysb.edu!dtiberio From: dtiberio@csws17.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.slack,alt.stupidity,alt.exploding.kibo,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again... Message-ID: <1992Apr6.213824.27152@sbcs.sunysb.edu> Date: 6 Apr 92 21:38:24 GMT References: <1992Apr6.132332.22099@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> <1992Apr6.171146.5558@uwm.edu> Sender: usenet@sbcs.sunysb.edu (Usenet poster) Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook Lines: 43 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5207 alt.slack:2867 alt.stupidity:4480 alt.exploding.kibo:126 alt.religion.kibology:1489 Nntp-Posting-Host: csws17.ic.sunysb.edu In article <1992Apr6.171146.5558@uwm.edu> tamm@cs.uwp.edu (Ernst Tamm) writes: >>>>>>>>>'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed] >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS. >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper. >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH. I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD STOP IT. >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*. >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but only after you >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> added your ten cents? A thousand-degree flame on you! >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!) >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth? >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich >>>>>>>>>> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width. >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it? >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >because he made a paste of it >>>>>>>>>> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it. >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >he never was a sailor >>>>>>>>>> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer. >>>>>>>>>> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE? PLEASE EXERCISE >>>>>>>>>> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT. >>>>>>>>>> >>>Okay. >>>>>>>>>> >> Come on guys, I think he means it. Don't follow up to this. >>>>>>>>>> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious. >>>>>>>>>> >Go ahead and follow up. >>>>>>>>>> >Or kill me. >>>>>>>>>> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess. >>>>>>>>>Shhhh! >>>>>>>>>What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion? I >>>>>>>>>missed the earlier parts. >>>>>>>There. No more wasted "Bandwidth" >>>>>>Huh? >>>>>Duh! >>>>NOT! >>>Got. >>Gott. >>>Gott-a have the last word, dontcha ?? Got to halve the last world. -- // David Tiberio SUNY Stony Brook 2-3662 AMIGA DDD-MEN // Not the llama! Come here Earl; I want to tell you something... \X/ Liverpool, New York Yes, I like 3D. Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!wupost!ukma!nsisrv!usenet From: bur@ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov (Mike Bur) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.slack,alt.stupidity,alt.exploding.kibo,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again... Message-ID: <1992Apr6.222708.22126@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> Date: 6 Apr 92 22:27:08 GMT References: <-zlj3qq.raj@netcom.com> <1992Apr6.132332.22099@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> Sender: usenet@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov (Usenet) Organization: NASA/GSFC code 923 Lines: 73 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5208 alt.slack:2868 alt.stupidity:4485 alt.exploding.kibo:129 alt.religion.kibology:1492 Nntp-Posting-Host: ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov In article raj@netcom.com (Roger Lee) writes: >In <1992Apr6.132332.22099@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> bur@soil.gsfc.nasa.gov (Mike Bur) writes: > >>In article <-zlj3qq.raj@netcom.com> raj@netcom.com (Roger Lee) writes: >>>In <1992Apr4.004715.17931@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> bur@ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov (Mike Bur) writes: >>> >>>>In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>>>In article <1992Apr2.015814.14003@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> bur@ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov (Mike Bur) writes: >>>>>>In article <1992Apr1.020902.587@zip.eecs.umich.edu> fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields) writes: >>>>>>>In article <1992Mar31.211150.13627@cs.rose-hulman.edu> waldbyjf@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Julian F Waldby) writes: >>>>>>>>In article <1992Mar28.192924.17253@acsu.buffalo.edu> >>>>>>>>majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) writes: >>>>>>>>> sramming@athena.mit.edu (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes: >>>>>>>>> >In article <1992Mar27.033812.25302@acsu.buffalo.edu> >>>>>>>>majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) writes: >>>>>>>>> >>klm@gozer.mv.com (Kevin L. McBride) writes: >>>>>>>>> >>>kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>>>>>>> >>>> In article <1992Mar25.012450.7508@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> >>>>>>>>press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes: >>>>>>>>> >>>> >In article <1992Mar20.031338.3813@nntp.uoregon.edu>, >>>>>>>>rtaylor@cie.uoregon.edu (Russ Taylor) writes: >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> In article kibo@world.std.com (James >>>>>>>>'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed] >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS. >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper. >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH. I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD STOP IT. >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*. >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but only after you >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> added your ten cents? A thousand-degree flame on you! >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!) >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth? >>>>>>>>> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich >>>>>>>>> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width. >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it? >>>>>>>>> >>>> >because he made a paste of it >>>>>>>>> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it. >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor >>>>>>>>> >>>> >he never was a sailor >>>>>>>>> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer. >>>>>>>>> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE? PLEASE EXERCISE >>>>>>>>> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT. >>>>>>>>> >>>Okay. >>>>>>>>> >> Come on guys, I think he means it. Don't follow up to this. >>>>>>>>> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious. >>>>>>>>> >Go ahead and follow up. >>>>>>>>> >Or kill me. >>>>>>>>> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess. >>>>>>>>Shhhh! >>>>>>>>> >sramming@athena.mit.edu >>>>>>>>> >M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming 305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge MA 02139 >>>>>>>>> >( the nonibo -ibo ) (617) 225-9887 [home] (617) 253-7942 [office] >>>>>>>>> No! Don't follow up to this! Whatever you do, _don't_ press >>>>>>>>> that "f" button! It's a sin! It's a sin! This is against the gods >>>>>>>>> of bandwidth and all that is wholly! See what you do! You waste and >>>>>>>>> waste and waste until the unthinkable happens! Nay, until the >>>>>>>>> _unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the >>>>>>>>> world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up! My >>>>>>>>> _GOD_! How can you even think it! How can you dream it and still >>>>>>>>> remain sane?!?!? How can it be?!?!?!?! Gah!!!! >>>>>>>>> majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu | The meek shall inherit the earth, >>>>>>>>> v061regm@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu | and the wise keep moving on... >>>>>>>>> Rev. M @P.O. Box 156 O |----------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>> Amherst, NY 14226 + |Ask me about the Secret Society! Shhhh! >>>>>>>>What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion? I >>>>>>>>missed the earlier parts. >>>>>>There. No more wasted "Bandwidth" >>>>>Huh? >>>>Duh! >>>NOT! >>Got. >it. Zit. Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.iastate.edu!du139-203.cc.iastate.edu!lyodav From: lyodav@iastate.edu (David A Lyon) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.slack,alt.stupidity,alt.exploding.kibo,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again... Message-ID: Date: 7 Apr 92 01:51:01 GMT References: <1992Apr4.004715.17931@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> <-zlj3qq.raj@netcom.com> <1992Apr6.132332.22099@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA Lines: 71 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5209 alt.slack:2872 alt.stupidity:4489 alt.exploding.kibo:132 alt.religion.kibology:1496 In <1992Apr6.132332.22099@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> bur@soil.gsfc.nasa.gov (Mike Bur) writes: >In article <-zlj3qq.raj@netcom.com> raj@netcom.com (Roger Lee) writes: >>In <1992Apr4.004715.17931@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> bur@ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov (Mike Bur) writes: >> >>>In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>>In article <1992Apr2.015814.14003@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> bur@ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov (Mike Bur) writes: >>>>>In article <1992Apr1.020902.587@zip.eecs.umich.edu> fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields) writes: >>>>>>In article <1992Mar31.211150.13627@cs.rose-hulman.edu> waldbyjf@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Julian F Waldby) writes: >>>>>>>In article <1992Mar28.192924.17253@acsu.buffalo.edu> >>>>>>>majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) writes: >>>>>>>> sramming@athena.mit.edu (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes: >>>>>>>> >In article <1992Mar27.033812.25302@acsu.buffalo.edu> >>>>>>>majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) writes: >>>>>>>> >>klm@gozer.mv.com (Kevin L. McBride) writes: >>>>>>>> >>>kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>>>>>> >>>> In article <1992Mar25.012450.7508@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> >>>>>>>press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes: >>>>>>>> >>>> >In article <1992Mar20.031338.3813@nntp.uoregon.edu>, >>>>>>>rtaylor@cie.uoregon.edu (Russ Taylor) writes: >>>>>>>> >>>> >> In article kibo@world.std.com (James >>>>>>>'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>>>>>> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed] >>>>>>>> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS. >>>>>>>> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper. >>>>>>>> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH. I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD STOP IT. >>>>>>>> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*. >>>>>>>> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but only after you >>>>>>>> >>>> >> added your ten cents? A thousand-degree flame on you! >>>>>>>> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!) >>>>>>>> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth? >>>>>>>> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich >>>>>>>> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width. >>>>>>>> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it? >>>>>>>> >>>> >because he made a paste of it >>>>>>>> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it. >>>>>>>> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor >>>>>>>> >>>> >he never was a sailor >>>>>>>> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer. >>>>>>>> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE? PLEASE EXERCISE >>>>>>>> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT. >>>>>>>> >>>Okay. >>>>>>>> >> Come on guys, I think he means it. Don't follow up to this. >>>>>>>> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious. >>>>>>>> >Go ahead and follow up. >>>>>>>> >Or kill me. >>>>>>>> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess. >>>>>>>Shhhh! >>>>>>>> >sramming@athena.mit.edu >>>>>>>> >M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming 305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge MA 02139 >>>>>>>> >( the nonibo -ibo ) (617) 225-9887 [home] (617) 253-7942 [office] >>>>>>>> No! Don't follow up to this! Whatever you do, _don't_ press >>>>>>>> that "f" button! It's a sin! It's a sin! This is against the gods >>>>>>>> of bandwidth and all that is wholly! See what you do! You waste and >>>>>>>> waste and waste until the unthinkable happens! Nay, until the >>>>>>>> _unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the >>>>>>>> world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up! My >>>>>>>> _GOD_! How can you even think it! How can you dream it and still >>>>>>>> remain sane?!?!? How can it be?!?!?!?! Gah!!!! >>>>>>>> majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu | The meek shall inherit the earth, >>>>>>>> v061regm@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu | and the wise keep moving on... >>>>>>>> Rev. M @P.O. Box 156 O |----------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> Amherst, NY 14226 + |Ask me about the Secret Society! Shhhh! >>>>>>>What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion? I >>>>>>>missed the earlier parts. >>>>>There. No more wasted "Bandwidth" >>>>Huh? >>>Duh! >>NOT! >Got. Ebg. (13) Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!mcws!NewsMeister From: Sasquatch@p4.f851.n102.z1.fidonet.org (Sasquatch) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Pt 1/2: The Pleiadians: Awakening Message-ID: <702615018.F00004@mcws.fidonet.org> Date: 7 Apr 92 00:10:34 GMT Sender: NewsMeister@mcws.fidonet.org Lines: 5 How is it that you come to use our term for your section of the universe?i.e. the Pleiades. * Origin: -=<*The Centre o' the Universe*>=- Glendale, CA - Earth (1:102/851.4) Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!msuinfo!kira.egr.msu.edu!klein From: klein@kira.egr.msu.edu (Jeffrey Klein) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.slack,alt.stupidity,alt.exploding.kibo,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again... Message-ID: <1992Apr7.024534.159@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Date: 7 Apr 92 02:45:34 GMT References: <-zlj3qq.raj@netcom.com> <1992Apr6.132332.22099@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> Sender: news@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu Organization: Michigan State University College of Stunt Piloting Lines: 77 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5211 alt.slack:2874 alt.stupidity:4492 alt.exploding.kibo:134 alt.religion.kibology:1498 In article smedley@milton.u.washington.edu (William Warner) writes: >bur@soil.gsfc.nasa.gov (Mike Bur) writes: > >>In article <-zlj3qq.raj@netcom.com> raj@netcom.com (Roger Lee) writes: >>>In <1992Apr4.004715.17931@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> bur@ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov (Mike Bur) writes: >>> >>>>In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>>>In article <1992Apr2.015814.14003@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> bur@ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov (Mike Bur) writes: >>>>>>In article <1992Apr1.020902.587@zip.eecs.umich.edu> fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields) writes: >>>>>>>In article <1992Mar31.211150.13627@cs.rose-hulman.edu> waldbyjf@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Julian F Waldby) writes: >>>>>>>>In article <1992Mar28.192924.17253@acsu.buffalo.edu> >>>>>>>>majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) writes: >>>>>>>>> sramming@athena.mit.edu (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes: >>>>>>>>> >In article <1992Mar27.033812.25302@acsu.buffalo.edu> >>>>>>>>majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) writes: >>>>>>>>> >>klm@gozer.mv.com (Kevin L. McBride) writes: >>>>>>>>> >>>kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>>>>>>> >>>> In article <1992Mar25.012450.7508@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> >>>>>>>>press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes: >>>>>>>>> >>>> >In article <1992Mar20.031338.3813@nntp.uoregon.edu>, >>>>>>>>rtaylor@cie.uoregon.edu (Russ Taylor) writes: >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> In article kibo@world.std.com (James >>>>>>>>'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed] >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS. >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper. >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH. I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD STOP IT. >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*. >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but only after you >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> added your ten cents? A thousand-degree flame on you! >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!) >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth? >>>>>>>>> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich >>>>>>>>> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width. >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it? >>>>>>>>> >>>> >because he made a paste of it >>>>>>>>> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it. >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor >>>>>>>>> >>>> >he never was a sailor >>>>>>>>> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer. >>>>>>>>> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE? PLEASE EXERCISE >>>>>>>>> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT. >>>>>>>>> >>>Okay. >>>>>>>>> >> Come on guys, I think he means it. Don't follow up to this. >>>>>>>>> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious. >>>>>>>>> >Go ahead and follow up. >>>>>>>>> >Or kill me. >>>>>>>>> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess. >>>>>>>>Shhhh! >>>>>>>>> >sramming@athena.mit.edu >>>>>>>>> >M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming 305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge MA 02139 >>>>>>>>> >( the nonibo -ibo ) (617) 225-9887 [home] (617) 253-7942 [office] >>>>>>>>> No! Don't follow up to this! Whatever you do, _don't_ press >>>>>>>>> that "f" button! It's a sin! It's a sin! This is against the gods >>>>>>>>> of bandwidth and all that is wholly! See what you do! You waste and >>>>>>>>> waste and waste until the unthinkable happens! Nay, until the >>>>>>>>> _unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the >>>>>>>>> world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up! My >>>>>>>>> _GOD_! How can you even think it! How can you dream it and still >>>>>>>>> remain sane?!?!? How can it be?!?!?!?! Gah!!!! >>>>>>>>> majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu | The meek shall inherit the earth, >>>>>>>>> v061regm@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu | and the wise keep moving on... >>>>>>>>> Rev. M @P.O. Box 156 O |----------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>> Amherst, NY 14226 + |Ask me about the Secret Society! Shhhh! >>>>>>>>What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion? I >>>>>>>>missed the earlier parts. >>>>>>There. No more wasted "Bandwidth" >>>>>Huh? >>>>Duh! >>>NOT! >>Got. >Gott. What? -- Jeff Klein | "One of you is a Charlie Brown mutant, | and the other has a hand growing out klein@kira.egr.msu.edu | of his(?) head!" - Blue Bunny Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!warwick!mrccrc!crc.ac.uk!sgamble From: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Me Message-ID: <1992Apr3.170555.5599@crc.ac.uk> Date: 3 Apr 92 17:05:55 GMT References: <1992Apr2.225838.9244@DMI.USherb.CA> Sender: news@crc.ac.uk Reply-To: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) Organization: MRC Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Harrow, UK Lines: 27 Nntp-Posting-Host: silicon In article <1992Apr2.225838.9244@DMI.USherb.CA>, paquj00@terre.DMI.USherb.CA (JEAN-FRANCOIS PAQUETTE) writes: > > Hi, my name id R-94-N8. Im an Alien living here since 1987. I came > from the planet Zora, and I have a special mission... God does not exist as > we imagine him; In reality, God is a number. And the goal of my inter- > galactical trip is to find that number and then put it on floppy-disk > backup. > > And when this day will be, the world will be saved. > This group is called alt.alien.visitors. If you have been living here since 1987 you no longer count as a visitor. If you are an Alien then lets see some evidence. I have an entirely open mind on this. Come on, convince me you are an Alien. Should you not be an Alien, then find somewherelse to play like alt.mentality.three-year-old Steve. -- (Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!) Steve Gamble, Computing Services, Clinical Research Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK. Phone: 081 869 3293 JANET: s.gamble@uk.ac.crc INTERNET: s.gamble@crc.ac.uk Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!warwick!mrccrc!crc.ac.uk!sgamble From: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: I2 Message-ID: <1992Apr7.103238.26875@crc.ac.uk> Date: 7 Apr 92 10:32:38 GMT References: <9204032024.AA01410@sunny.ssc.gov> <1992Apr5.095519.15121@sbcs.sunysb.edu> Sender: news@crc.ac.uk Reply-To: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) Organization: MRC Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Harrow, UK Lines: 31 Nntp-Posting-Host: silicon In article <1992Apr5.095519.15121@sbcs.sunysb.edu>, dtiberio@csws17.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) writes: > > > I am a UFO. > ^^^^ Boy, do you have an identity crisis!! A UFO is an Unidentified Flying Object, it means literally that something that cannot be identified that is seen in the sky. So if you are a UFO, that means you are unidenified which means you don't really know what you are! Perhaps you mean you are an extraterrestrial spacecraft (which is different from a UFO). Some UFOs may by spacecraft, but not all spacecraft are UFOs. If you really are an extra-terrestrial spacecraft, please file a flight plan here - I would really like to get some evidence of intelligent life from elsewhere in the Universe. Of course, there is always the chance that your comment is meant as some childish wind-up. If you are going to do that sort of thing, at least get it logically correct! Steve. -- (Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!) Steve Gamble, Computing Services, Clinical Research Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK. Phone: 081 869 3293 JANET: s.gamble@uk.ac.crc INTERNET: s.gamble@crc.ac.uk Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: "Imaginary" Abductees (was: It seems kinda simple to me.) Message-ID: <_8pjjd_.sheaffer@netcom.com> Date: 7 Apr 92 14:20:56 GMT References: <1992Apr2.231642.2233@ducvax.auburn.edu> <6572@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> <1992Apr6.103809.1@wharton.upenn.edu> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 122 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5214 sci.skeptic:22482 Since people have heard about the study of "imaginary UFO abductees" (as if they were different from "real" ones!), and are asking about them, I am posting the following summary of a talk by Dr. Alvin Lawson, who performed the study. HYPNOSIS OF IMAGINARY UFO "ABDUCTEES" (Abstract and Introduction only) by Alvin H. Lawson English Department California State University, Long Beach California, U.S.A 90840 In an attempt to evaluate objectively the claims of UFO "abductees," imaginary abductions were induced hypnotically in a group of volunteers who had no significant knowledge of UFOs. Eight situational questions comprising the major components of a typical abduction account were asked of each subject. Although the researchers expected major dissimilarities, an averaged comparison of data from four imaginary and four "real" abduction narratives showed no substantive differences. Also, extensive patterns echoing well-established details from "real" UFO reports emerged from the "naive" subjects' imaginary sessions. There is as yet no satisfactory explanation for the patterns and other similarities between imaginary and "real" abductions, But, more significantly, there are parallels between these patterns and the "image constants" or recurrent descriptions of form, color, and movement reported by subjects in drug-induced hallucination experiments, and in SO-called "death" narratives, among other mental processes. Thus there is reason to accept at least some parts of "real" abductees' stories as accurate reflections of what their sensory mechanisms have reported. However, despite the many similarities, there are crucial differences--such as alleged physical effects and multiple witnesses--which argue that UFO abductions are separate and distinct from imaginary and hallucinatory experiences. With these distinctions in mind, an abduction model is proposed: Witnesses _really perceive_ images--from whatever source--such as bright and pulsating lights, lattice- textured forms moving randomly in the sky, lighted tunnels, humanoid figures, etc. These abduction constants are combined with data from the imagination, memory, and existing UFO data known by witnesses to create a "real" UFO encounter. The subjective reality of the intense hallucinatory structure convinces the witnesses that the entire experience is a physically real event. Subsequently they may report the "truth" as they have experienced it, although actual occurrences remain unclear. The complexities of the UFO phenomenon are affirmed by the above model since still unexplained are many puzzling matters, including the greatest mystery of all, the nature of the stimulus which initiates the imagery in the witness and so triggers the abduction sequence. The writer prefers a dualistic UFO hypothesis. But while there is a continuing absence of unambiguous physical evidence, this study concludes that UFOs are--in psychological terms--unquestionably real, and further, that non-physical UFO research is promising. Key-words: Abduction sequence; animals; apparitions ; "death" narratives; drug-induced hallucinations; entities; exotic; hallucinations; human; humanoid; hypnosis; image constants; imaginary abductees; model abduction; "naive" subjects; patterns; "real" abductees; robot; stimulus. II. INTRODUCTION Since early 1977, sixteen volunteers have been hypnotized and given imaginary UFO "abductions" by a clinical hypnotist working with a group of Southern California ufologists.* The purpose of this paper is to describe the series of experiments and to discuss their implications for UFO research in the light of several analogs to abduction experiences, particularly drug- induced hallucinations. The imaginary "abductees" were volunteers from local colleges and communities. The group was composed of ten females and six males and ranged in age from 12 to 65. Based upon a brief questionnaire, the oral portion of which was administered before and again during hypnosis as a check, all subjects were judged to be "naive"--that is, generally ignorant about UFOs and the extensive if uneven literature about them. The imaginary abduction study came about primarily because of researchers' dissatisfactions with results from allegedly real abduction case investigations. Objections included: 1) the uncertain credibility of witnesses; 2) the ambiguous nature of the anecdotal and other evidence supporting abduction witnesses; and 3) unresolved questions as to the efficacy of hypnosis and/or hypnotic procedures followed in particular cases. The researchers be*an the study with the assumption that the imaginary abductions would be clearly distinct from "real" cases and so would offer some proof of the "reality" of actual abductions. But what we found was both surprising and unsettling, and much of the intervening time has been spent in trying to deal with the implications of those results. -------------------------------------------------------- *The group included Dr. W.C, McCall, John De Herrera, and the author. Earlier versions of this paper were presented at the 1977 MUFON UFO Symposium (Scottsdale, Ariz.), and at the 1978 meeting of the American Psychological Association (Toronto). -- Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! "In the 1970's the world will undergo famines - hundreds of millions of people are going to starve to death in spite of any crash programs embarked upon now ... in 1985, when it is calculated [under the most optimistic scenario] that the major die-back will be over, ..." Dr. Paul Ehrlich, "The Population Bomb," 1968 Path: ns-mx!uunet!bonnie.concordia.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!umrutko0 From: umrutko0@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Chris Rutkowski) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Don Ecker and Phil Klass!! Message-ID: <1992Apr7.150402.22798@ccu.umanitoba.ca> Date: 7 Apr 92 15:04:02 GMT References: <123584.29DD28FF@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada Lines: 33 In <123584.29DD28FF@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) writes: >On April 24, 1992, MICAP (Multi-national Investigations Cooperative on Aerial >Phenomena), in conjunction with ParaNet Information Service, will sponsor an >illustrated forum on contrasting viewpoints within the UFO research community. >This forum will be moderated before a live audience with questions following >the presentation. The guests will be Don Ecker, Research Director for UFO >Magazine and a long-standing contributor of ParaNet, and Phil Klass, avionics >editor (retired) for Aviation Weekly and Space Technology, and known among the >UFO research community as an avid detractor of the ETH (Extra-Terrestrial >Hypothesis). Ecker will demonstrate that the phenomena has a basis in reality >and that it has potential implications for possible non-prosaic explanations, >whereas Klass will demonstrate a prosaic/earthly explanation for mysterious and >seemingly inexplicable UFO incidents. >The "square-off" will begin at 7:00 P.M., at the Denver North Holiday Inn >Holidome at I-25 and 120th Avenue. The title of the presentation is UFOs? >Modern Myth, Manifest Technology, or ...? >This will be an interesting exchange of ideas and information and is expected >to attract skeptics, believers and the intellectually curious. For ticket >inforamtion, please contact MICAP at (303)431-8796. Hotel accomodations are >available at reasonable rates. Klass will eat him alive. From what I've heard from Ecker, there's no way he can rebut Klass when he's really in fine form. Mike, let us know how it turns out. -- Chris Rutkowski - umrutko0@ccu.umanitoba.ca Royal Astronomical Society of Canada University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!cunews!wcsjc From: wcsjc@alfred.carleton.ca (John Coughlin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.slack,alt.stupidity,alt.exploding.kibo,alt.religion.kibology,alt.tasteless Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again... Message-ID: Date: 7 Apr 92 16:07:32 GMT References: <-zlj3qq.raj@netcom.com> <1992Apr6.132332.22099@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> <1992Apr6.165135.2982@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> Sender: news@cunews.carleton.ca (News Administrator) Organization: Carleton University Lines: 75 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5216 alt.slack:2882 alt.stupidity:4505 alt.exploding.kibo:141 alt.religion.kibology:1507 alt.tasteless:9656 In <1992Apr6.165135.2982@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> bur@soil.gsfc.nasa.gov (Mike Bur) writes: >In article smedley@milton.u.washington.edu (William Warner) writes: >>bur@soil.gsfc.nasa.gov (Mike Bur) writes: >> >>>In article <-zlj3qq.raj@netcom.com> raj@netcom.com (Roger Lee) writes: >>>>In <1992Apr4.004715.17931@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> bur@ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov (Mike Bur) writes: >>>> >>>>>In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>>>>In article <1992Apr2.015814.14003@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> bur@ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov (Mike Bur) writes: >>>>>>>In article <1992Apr1.020902.587@zip.eecs.umich.edu> fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields) writes: >>>>>>>>In article <1992Mar31.211150.13627@cs.rose-hulman.edu> waldbyjf@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Julian F Waldby) writes: >>>>>>>>>In article <1992Mar28.192924.17253@acsu.buffalo.edu> >>>>>>>>>majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) writes: >>>>>>>>>> sramming@athena.mit.edu (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes: >>>>>>>>>> >In article <1992Mar27.033812.25302@acsu.buffalo.edu> >>>>>>>>>majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) writes: >>>>>>>>>> >>klm@gozer.mv.com (Kevin L. McBride) writes: >>>>>>>>>> >>>kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>>>>>>>> >>>> In article <1992Mar25.012450.7508@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> >>>>>>>>>press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes: >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >In article <1992Mar20.031338.3813@nntp.uoregon.edu>, >>>>>>>>>rtaylor@cie.uoregon.edu (Russ Taylor) writes: >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> In article kibo@world.std.com (James >>>>>>>>>'Kibo' Parry) writes: >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed] >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS. >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper. >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH. I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD STOP IT. >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*. >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but only after you >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> added your ten cents? A thousand-degree flame on you! >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!) >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth? >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich >>>>>>>>>> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width. >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it? >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >because he made a paste of it >>>>>>>>>> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it. >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >he never was a sailor >>>>>>>>>> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer. >>>>>>>>>> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE? PLEASE EXERCISE >>>>>>>>>> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT. >>>>>>>>>> >>>Okay. >>>>>>>>>> >> Come on guys, I think he means it. Don't follow up to this. >>>>>>>>>> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious. >>>>>>>>>> >Go ahead and follow up. >>>>>>>>>> >Or kill me. >>>>>>>>>> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess. >>>>>>>>>Shhhh! >>>>>>>>>> >sramming@athena.mit.edu >>>>>>>>>> >M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming 305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge MA 02139 >>>>>>>>>> >( the nonibo -ibo ) (617) 225-9887 [home] (617) 253-7942 [office] >>>>>>>>>> No! Don't follow up to this! Whatever you do, _don't_ press >>>>>>>>>> that "f" button! It's a sin! It's a sin! This is against the gods >>>>>>>>>> of bandwidth and all that is wholly! See what you do! You waste and >>>>>>>>>> waste and waste until the unthinkable happens! Nay, until the >>>>>>>>>> _unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the >>>>>>>>>> world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up! My >>>>>>>>>> _GOD_! How can you even think it! How can you dream it and still >>>>>>>>>> remain sane?!?!? How can it be?!?!?!?! Gah!!!! >>>>>>>>>> majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu | The meek shall inherit the earth, >>>>>>>>>> v061regm@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu | and the wise keep moving on... >>>>>>>>>> Rev. M @P.O. Box 156 O |----------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>> Amherst, NY 14226 + |Ask me about the Secret Society! Shhhh! >>>>>>>>>What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion? I >>>>>>>>>missed the earlier parts. >>>>>>>There. No more wasted "Bandwidth" >>>>>>Huh? >>>>>Duh! >>>>NOT! >>>Got. >>Gott. >cooler. Whuzzat? Path: ns-mx!uunet!math.fu-berlin.de!zrz.tu-berlin.de!news.netmbx.de!zelator!krypta!FB2-UUCP-Mail-Server From: Andre.Eichner@f10.n2403.z2.fidonet.ORG (Andre Eichner) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Berlin-Info: UFO meeting in Berlin Message-ID: <702688593.0@krypta.fidonet.ORG> Date: 3 Apr 92 16:57:00 GMT Sender: FB2-UUCP-Mail-Server@p2.f41.n2403.z2.fidonet.ORG Lines: 43 International UFO congress in Berlin (Germany) KIK - communication in the universe, congress & exhibition 16.-20.4.92 in Berlin A international UFO-congress take place at April 16.-20. in Berlin. Speakers: Virgil Armstrong, USA, Sponsor, as secret service officer he works on the recovery of the first UFO, found 1948 in the USA. Fred Bell, USA Scientist, works with pyramid-energy and is in contect with the aliens and makes music Valerij Nagibin, GUS psychologist, medical doctor, UFO-research scientist and para-psychologist. Anthony Dodd, UK ex Sergeant of UK police. employee of UFO-journal QUEST investigate the crop circles in UK Prof. J. J. Hurtak USA futurology, director of "future Science" institute Dr. Edith Fiore USA psychologist, works with persons which was captured through aliens. Douglas Pue, USA Ex NASA-employee, is informed about contacts between aliens and the US Gouvernment. JULIE RAVEL BRD Channel und spiritual head of the Licht-Oase Berlin, arranges newest information from the "Ashtar Command". MICKY REMANN, New Age writer and expert for unusual spirital occurrence. and many more. besides become a lot NewAge technical news in a exhibition/fair. for more information and registration call If you place a call, please inform about the source "FidoNet/ParaNet-Berlin"! International cultural centre "UFA-Fabrik Berlin" : +49-30-752 80 85 Fax......: +49-30-752 23 44 --- * Origin: FidoNet-Berlin, the magic node (2:2403/10) Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!hp-cv!hp-pcd!hpcvaac!billn From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage Subject: Re: New Age/Christian Survey -Help! Message-ID: <1992Apr7.195233.9525@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> Date: 7 Apr 92 19:52:33 GMT References: <1992Apr4.034708.18373@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> Organization: Hewlett-Parkard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA Lines: 147 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5218 alt.pagan:14111 alt.paranormal:4759 talk.religion.newage:10009 jmb5b@newton.acc.Virginia.EDU (John M. Bozeman) writes: : I am about to give a guest lecture to a sociology class at the : University of Virginia. The Topic: "Christianity and the New Age : Look at Each Other." When Writing about such subjects, I like to : talk to the people who actually practice the faith. So I would : like to ask anyone who would care to answer... : : 1. What makes a person a Christian? A professed belief that they are Christian by the individual should be sufficient. They should not have to justify this to anyone else, nor should anyone else be able to tell them that they are not Christian. : 2. What makes a person a follower of the New Age? Once again, the belief by the person that they are New Age. In my experience, many New Age people are Christians that would like a little personal mysticism in their lives. They also seem to deny the dark or evil side of humanity - in other words, they attempt to look at the world "through rose tinted glasses". : 3. What do you think of evangelical-fundamentalist-charismatic-- : pentecostal Christians? Since I am not one of these, I do not hold any opinions which I wish to share. In general, I disapprove of any dogmatic group, whether it is religious, scientific or social. : 4. What do you think of mainline Protestant Christianity (i.e., : Methodists, Lutherans, Presbyterians, etc.) See #3. : 5. What do you think of Catholics? See #3. : 6. What do you think of channeling? meditation? pyramids? Tarot : cards? astrology? crystals? UFO's? Channeling - probably self/delusion or fakery. I do not know, nor am I really interested in finding out. Meditation - a good tool for introspection. Prayer could be considered one type of meditation. The technique is practiced by many groups of people, many in a non-religious context. If it was not useful, it would not be so common. Pyramids - they are undoubtedly real. There are many people who have seen them in Egypt and other countries. Some have even climbed them. Scientists have studied and measured them. Tarot cards and astrology - useful as a focus for making personal judgements about another person - or to help focus on a situation which you feel you need to examine. There is nothing inherently magical about either. Crystals - some of them make pretty jewelry, others don't. Once again, they could be used as a useful focus. Once again, there is nothing inherently magical about them. UFOs - who knows? That is why they are called UNIDENTIFIED flying objects. : 7. Who or what is God? Who is/was Jesus? Who or what is the Holy : Spirit? Do you think the literal Resurrection of Jesus literally : took place? What do you think is the meaning of the resurrection? Who knows - does it really matter? I see the resurrection as yet another version of the birth/death/rebirth cycle of mythology. : 8. Do you think Jesus will come again? What do you think of the : Bible? No - I believe Jesus was a man. Possibly a very talented and powerful person, but a man. I see the Bible as a useful book of parable mixed with some history. As with any book of mythology, the truth/fact becomes mixed with the invention. This is not necessarily bad, nor is it necessarily good. : 9. Why do you consider yourself a follower of the New Age? What : do you think is (are) the central tenets of your beliefs? How did : you come to hold these beliefs? Are you a member of any formal : religious group(s)? Which ones? I doubt if you will find many New Age people here. I am not "New Age" and would not attempt to speak for them. My personal religious beliefs are none of your business. It is even less your business of how I came to hold these beliefs. I am a member of a number of religious groups/organizations - once again, which ones are none of your business. : 10. What is your age? sex? Occupation? [Optional, for : statistical use only: are you single-married-divorced-widowed- : living with someone-under a vow of celibacy? hetero-homo-bisexual? : What race do you describe yourself as?] What does any of this have to do with religious belief? As far as race - I describe myself as human. Should I describe myself otherwise? : 11. [More optional questions: What happens to us when we die? Who knows - I have not yet died. At least, I am not aware of having done so. : What makes an individual good or bad? Do you think that there is What the person does. : an absolute standard of right and wrong? What do you think are the Absolutely not. : central problems of American and World society? How does your Intolerance of the beliefs of others. : faith address these problems, if at all? Do you think that your Many religions preach tolerance - few practice it. I practice rather than preach. : faith is the only way to salvation or self-fulfillment? Is it the : best way? No, it is not the only way - it may not even be a way. However, it is the most self-fulfilling I have found to date. As far as salvation, it depends on what you mean by the term. You will have to define the word for me. I have no way of knowing if it is the best way to anything. That is impossible for anyone to know. To attempt to force my beliefs on others would be practicing this intolerance that I stated above was the greatest problem facing humanity. : Thank you for your time. I may wish to quote from this material in : class and/or (maybe) in a later scholarly work; quotation will be : anonymous if requested. As I mentioned above, sensitive material : is for statistical use only. If you are going to be doing a "scholarly work", then you had better do a lot more research and learn the meaning of a few terms. For example: Being "newage" is not the same as being "pagan". Bill Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!press2 From: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.alien.visitors,alt.slack,alt.stupidity,alt.exploding.kibo Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again... Message-ID: <1992Apr7.214758.6461@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> Date: 7 Apr 92 21:47:58 GMT References: <1992Apr1.020902.587@zip.eecs.umich.edu> <-zlj3qq.raj@netcom.com> Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Organization: AT&T Lines: 71 Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2638 alt.alien.visitors:5219 alt.slack:2889 alt.stupidity:4517 alt.exploding.kibo:147 In article <-zlj3qq.raj@netcom.com>, raj@netcom.com (Roger Lee) writes: > In <1992Apr4.004715.17931@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> bur@ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov (Mike Bur) writes: > > >In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: > >>In article <1992Apr2.015814.14003@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> bur@ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov (Mike Bur) writes: > >>>In article <1992Apr1.020902.587@zip.eecs.umich.edu> fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields) writes: > >>>>In article <1992Mar31.211150.13627@cs.rose-hulman.edu> waldbyjf@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Julian F Waldby) writes: > >>>>>In article <1992Mar28.192924.17253@acsu.buffalo.edu> > >>>>>majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) writes: > >>>>>> sramming@athena.mit.edu (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes: > >>>>>> >In article <1992Mar27.033812.25302@acsu.buffalo.edu> > >>>>>majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) writes: > >>>>>> >>klm@gozer.mv.com (Kevin L. McBride) writes: > >>>>>> >>>kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: > >>>>>> >>>> In article <1992Mar25.012450.7508@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> > >>>>>press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes: > >>>>>> >>>> >In article <1992Mar20.031338.3813@nntp.uoregon.edu>, > >>>>>rtaylor@cie.uoregon.edu (Russ Taylor) writes: > >>>>>> >>>> >> In article kibo@world.std.com (James > >>>>>'Kibo' Parry) writes: > >>>>>> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed] > >>>>>> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS. > >>>>>> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper. > >>>>>> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH. I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD STOP IT. > >>>>>> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*. > >>>>>> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but only after you > >>>>>> >>>> >> added your ten cents? A thousand-degree flame on you! > >>>>>> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!) > >>>>>> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth? > >>>>>> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich > >>>>>> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width. > >>>>>> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it? > >>>>>> >>>> >because he made a paste of it > >>>>>> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it. > >>>>>> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor > >>>>>> >>>> >he never was a sailor > >>>>>> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer. > >>>>>> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE? PLEASE EXERCISE > >>>>>> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT. > >>>>>> >>>Okay. > >>>>>> >> Come on guys, I think he means it. Don't follow up to this. > >>>>>> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious. > >>>>>> >Go ahead and follow up. > >>>>>> >Or kill me. > >>>>>> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess. > >>>>>Shhhh! > >>>>>> >sramming@athena.mit.edu > >>>>>> >M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming 305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge MA 02139 > >>>>>> >( the nonibo -ibo ) (617) 225-9887 [home] (617) 253-7942 [office] > >>>>>> No! Don't follow up to this! Whatever you do, _don't_ press > >>>>>> that "f" button! It's a sin! It's a sin! This is against the gods > >>>>>> of bandwidth and all that is wholly! See what you do! You waste and > >>>>>> waste and waste until the unthinkable happens! Nay, until the > >>>>>> _unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the > >>>>>> world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up! My > >>>>>> _GOD_! How can you even think it! How can you dream it and still > >>>>>> remain sane?!?!? How can it be?!?!?!?! Gah!!!! > >>>>>> majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu | The meek shall inherit the earth, > >>>>>> v061regm@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu | and the wise keep moving on... > >>>>>> Rev. M @P.O. Box 156 O |----------------------------------------- > >>>>>> Amherst, NY 14226 + |Ask me about the Secret Society! Shhhh! > >>>>>What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion? I > >>>>>missed the earlier parts. > >>>There. No more wasted "Bandwidth" > >>Huh? > >Duh! > NOT! Knot Groc NOW STOP IT??!!**%%0-0 > ~ Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!pacbell.com!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!press2 From: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: More Packet messages (fwd) Summary: somewhere over the rainbow... Message-ID: <1992Apr7.220552.6940@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> Date: 7 Apr 92 22:05:52 GMT References: <327@beyonet.UUCP> <328@beyonet.UUCP> Organization: AT&T Lines: 12 > believe that somewhere out there someone is watching us - maybe listening to > our radio transmissions - maybe receiving this very debate right now! Yet > another reason to compose packet messages well - aliens are watching! :-) > That's my view - let's hear yours! Although I believe there are strange phenomena happening out their in the skies, I don't have any idea what that is. But I wholeheartedly agree we are being observed, but by a lower intelligence. These creatures are from our own time system, they are called GA's. They used to be called G-Men. Government agents. barry-- Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!press2 From: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: I2 Message-ID: <1992Apr7.220933.7079@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> Date: 7 Apr 92 22:09:33 GMT References: <9204032024.AA01410@sunny.ssc.gov> <1992Apr5.095519.15121@sbcs.sunysb.edu> Organization: AT&T Lines: 3 > >[eye]am an alien. > I am a UFO. I am TuTu. You can call me Tu Too. Watch me dance. Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!fnal.fnal.gov!raph From: raph@fnalnn.fnal.gov Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: It seems kinda simple to me. Message-ID: <1992Apr7.190523.1@fnalnn.fnal.gov> Date: 8 Apr 92 01:05:23 GMT References: <1992Apr2.231642.2233@ducvax.auburn.edu> <6572@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> <1992Apr6.103809.1@wharton.upenn.edu> Sender: news@ctr.columbia.edu (The Daily Lose) Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Lab Lines: 66 In article <1992Apr6.103809.1@wharton.upenn.edu>, millerl@wharton.upenn.edu writes: > In article <6572@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU>, mitch@mott.seas.ucla.edu (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin)) writes: >> How about using a "control group" of people who claim _not_ to >> have had an abduction experience or missing time episode? >> Would they suddenly begin "remembering" such episodes when >> placed under hypnosis? A "false positive" result would certainly >> cast aspersions on the value of hypnosis as a tool. > > This has been done, and the abduction theorists claimed that the newly > remembered abductions proved that the problem was even more widespread > than they had thought. The same thing happens with hypnotic regression > to recall satanist abuse, and hypnotic regression to remember childhood > sexual abuse, and so on. Hypnosis is a powerful tool to change what > people think; abduction theorists, among others, seem to forget this. > > -- > whoah, > +++++++++++++++++++++++23 > Loren Miller internet: MILLERL@wharton.upenn.edu First off, I'm not a "UFO investigator," but I have come to know a number of abductees rather well; and in our family we do have a psychoanalyst and a degree or two in psychology. What I have noticed from this thread is that one element is omitted, which seems to be quite pivotal to the abduction experience, and that is the traumatic shock, called PTSD in the psychiatrist's DSM-III lingo. You cannot find "control group" subjects normally running around who are in a state of PTSD unless they have just been held hostage, raped, or nearly been killed, or have been subjected to some other sort of trauma. Not all of the phenomena come out under hypnosis; in fact, from the people I have talked with, only two of them resorted to hypnosis; and they had very vivid experiences that they remembered (and related) *before* going to a professional hypnotist to help understand what happened to them. With a little imagination, I am sure that many people can concoct a scenario where they are taken aboard a UFO, or attended a satanic ritual, or were a spy for the USSR, etc. What I believe *cannot* be concocted is the post-traumatic stress syndrome, which can last for months, and has distinct and vivid symptoms. Had it been true (as I supposed before getting to know these abductees) that all abductees probably said to themselves, "Gee, I saw a really strange light through my bedroom window last night; maybe I was abducted by a UFO! I'll get hypnotized and find out!" Well, if that would be the typical case, I would agree that hypnosis and UFO abductions were only hokum. I have found out that that is not the case, to my great surprise. Selecting test and control subjects without selecting for the trauma in the one group is extremely poor protocol, and will probably leave you with an "apples and oranges" useless comparison. Cordially, Jim Hawtree ************************************************************************* Disclaimer: Neither the senior physicists nor the janitor's union at Fermilab knows about nor cares about (let alone endorses) my opinions and statements above. ************************************************************************* "If anyone disagrees with anything I say, I am quite prepared not only to retract it, but also to deny under oath that I ever said it." -- Tom Lehrer ************************************************************************* Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!att!fang!tarpit!tous!bilver!jwt!anarchy From: bbs-anarchy@jwt.UUCP (Wayne Neverka) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.drugs,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: PROGRAMMING AND METAPROGRAMMING IN THE HUMAN BIOCOMPUTER Message-ID: Date: 7 Apr 92 05:21:02 GMT References: <1992Apr03.201913.8285@microsoft.com> Sender: bbs@jwt.UUCP (Waffle login) Organization: The Matrix Lines: 12 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5223 alt.drugs:24671 alt.paranormal:4763 sci.skeptic:22507 Also, for more info on Dr. Lilly, see this month's _High_Times_ interview...it's relatively short, but fascinating. On the same topic, does anyone have a snail mail address for the Esalen Institute in Big Sur? -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wayne R. Neverka bbs-anarchy@jwt.UUCP Just Say No To Bush -- Vote Libertarian in 1992 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!darwin.sura.net!wupost!emory!ducvax.auburn.edu!lab22!forrepr From: forrepr@eng.auburn.edu (Philip R. Forrest) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Color UFO-pics soon at UFO-FTP-site ! Message-ID: <1992Apr7.213826.2282@ducvax.auburn.edu> Date: 8 Apr 92 02:38:24 GMT Reply-To: forrepr@eng.auburn.edu Organization: Auburn University Engineering Lines: 35 Nntp-Posting-Host: lab22.eng.auburn.edu To: leo@zelator.in-berlin.deContent-Length: 829Lines: 37 Stefan, I read your posting dated 30 MAR 92 01:00:39 GMT I have a couple of comments and a question. My hometown is Mobile, AL - right next door to Pensacola. (About 80 km) When these sightings were taking place, a friend and I would drive over there on weekend nights and try to see whatever it was that was causing all the fuss. As much as I wanted to see something, I never did. I really find this UFO phenomenon very fascinating, but I have never seen ANYTHING in the sky that was out of the ordinary. I still have an open mind though. I have not contacted Ed Walters (book Author). I do not know how to get in touch with him. Does he have a known internet id ?? As far as the local news media goes, yes, they were all over the story. All the TV stations had updates from time to time, and the papers had a regular report weekly. I have talked to a lot of people in Pensacola who swear they saw the 'crafts' (I used to deliver autoparts from Mobile to Pensacola). The people I have talked to seem like ordinary people, I don't think they were lying. Pensacola's major network TV station (WEAR, Channel 3 (VHF)), broadcast a half hour special on the video that was taken of the craft. I was rather impressed by the quality of the tape. Have you seen it all ? There is a portion on the tape in which one guy is videotaping another guy taking a polaroid picture of the UFO - and the guy with the videocamera continuously tapes the polaroid picture, and you can see the polaroid picture develope - showing an image of the underside of the UFO. I can't think of how someone could have faked that occurence. - Phil Forrest Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!bluemoon!garys From: garys@bluemoon.rn.com (Gary Stollman) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Pt 1/2: The Pleiadians: Awakening Message-ID: Date: 8 Apr 92 03:40:45 GMT References: <702615018.F00004@mcws.fidonet.org> Sender: bbs@bluemoon.rn.com (BBS Login) Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024]) Lines: 19 Sasquatch@p4.f851.n102.z1.fidonet.org (Sasquatch) writes: > How is it that you come to use our term for your section of the > universe?i.e. the Pleiades. > > * Origin: -=<*The Centre o' the Universe*>=- Glendale, CA - Earth > (1:102/851.4) ***** HEY!! Don't bug them any!! They are sentient beings ain't they??!! They got a RIGHT to use any terminology they please!!! (holding ray guns on ya don't hurt either) Gary This is from garys@bluemoon.rn.com who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!bluemoon!garys From: garys@bluemoon.rn.com (Gary Stollman) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Subject: INVASION!!! Message-ID: Date: 8 Apr 92 06:23:56 GMT Sender: bbs@bluemoon.rn.com (BBS Login) Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024]) Lines: 523 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5226 alt.conspiracy:13884 sci.skeptic:22512 alt.paranormal:4764 Gary Stollman Copyright (C) 1991 446 Conradi St. Apt. A328 Gary Stollman Tallahassee, Fl. 32304 The Invasion of the Human Race by Gary Stollman I never planned out my life to wind up on the set of KNBC in Los Angeles LIVE, standing behind TV consumer advocate David Horowitz holding a toy gun to his head, demanding that he read a statement about how space aliens and the CIA had replaced my father and family with clones. I had only planned on becoming a computer programmer and a good citizen. At least that was before I discovered I had somehow stumbled onto a vast plot to overthrow the human race. I realize the implications of what I am about to say and how impossible it may be to believe, but the truth is that unless something is done and quite soon, the human race as a species will cease to exist! Naturally, I didn't get this idea overnight. Actually it took quite a few years for me to realize exactly what was going on. By that time, I had been through so much brutal assault on my senses, I didn't quite know what to make of it all. However, as it gradually became all too obvious, I became terrified, and vowed that I would take some action to try to halt or at least impede the apparent problem. The end result of this was my jumping onto the set at the NBC studio in LA, in a last-ditch hope of scaring them so bad they would go back to wherever they came from. I think I should preview you from the beginning, when I first discovered that something was rotten in Dixie. In the summer of 1981, I was in my new home, Tallahassee, Florida, preparing to enter Tallahassee Community College (TCC) in the fall to finish up my long-put-off AA degree. I was sitting in my apartment awaiting a shipment of belongings from my parents in California. Suddenly, the phone rang. My mom was on the phone, and she asked me whether I had received the packages. I told her they had not been delivered yet. She said she would check up on it, and the phone line abruptly went dead. I was concerned because I had sensed real fear in her voice about the shipment not arriving. I was certain something was up, but I couldn't put my finger on it. I didn't quite know what to make of it at the time. That was the start of a series of bizarre events which seemed like something from the Twilight Zone. It would last for 6 long years, up until the day I sat in the studio at NBC in LA with the toy gun in my jacket pocket, waiting for my chance to leap onto the set to hopefully put a stop to what had become a living nightmare. However, I have learned recently that my efforts at bringing my experiences to the public attention did not stop them, although it may have slowed them down just a little. During the summer that followed, I continued to receive calls of a strange nature from many people, including my parents. I knew something was REALLY wrong when my dad called me up one night, and began asking me questions about some hotel we had all supposedly stayed at with "huge" marble staircases. Since none of us had ever been at such a place, I didn't know what the HELL he was talking about! When he realized that I was totally confused and worried, he acted like because I didn't "remember", he was going to be shot or something to that effect! Calls like that continued for weeks, including some really wierd ones from the operator, where she repeatedly questioned me about people whom I did not even know. The nature of the calls convinced me that my phone was tapped, and being monitored by the phone company or "someone!" When September rolled came, I went to TCC to register for classes. The day I walked in, almost ALL of the kids had dropped the classes they had signed up for the day before. A lady counselor (who was to play a part in my later demise) told me that it had NEVER happened before and never would again! She tried to assure me that it was all just a simple clerical error, but I thought at the time there was more to it than just that. I signed up for 5 classes, enough to complete my degree. I sure had an "open" list to pick from! After a week or so of classes, I realized that something was terribly wrong. Some of the kids in my classes were acting real funny, and I do mean ACTING! It was as if they were playing parts out of a movie, the way they were carrying on during class. Something just wasn't right. It seemed like they had been assigned various "roles", and their actions in the class made me believe that they had been put there for some specific purpose. I came to the gradual conclusion that some of the kids in my classes were either with the CIA or the FBI, what with the type of stuff they were doing and saying. And it seemed like they were there for the express purpose of keeping and eye on ME. I know that sounds paranoid, but it was the only assumption I could ascertain at the time, with the things that were going on. Gradually, those thoughts began to affect my class work to the point where I was having a hard time studying, and my grades began to slip in some of my classes. Fortunately, because of my strong will, I was able to keep my attention focused on getting done, and wound up passing all of my classes except one. However, the process by which I got through those classes was a pretty roundabout one, as it involved the first of my many unwilling hospitalizations for treatment of my supposed paranoid delusions. In order to be allowed to finish school, I was forced into signing myself into a small local mental hospital for treatment by the counselor who I had met while signing up for classes. When I discovered that that hospital was just a front for the CIA from the events which took place after I had signed in, I tried to sign myself out, but instead of being released, I wound up being sent to the main mental hospital here in town by the doctor in charge. I had friends with some authority who really cared about me, and after a few days and a visit from the public defender, I was discharged. But the fire of anger from that first wrongful admission to a mental hospital still burns within me. After I finished school, I went to my grandparents in West Palm Beach for Christmas vacation. There were some strange things going on down there as well, but I didn't make anything out of it. I then went up to Atlanta for New Years. When I got back, my mom called me at my apartment. But it was not my REAL mom! I couldn't explain it, but I knew instinctively that it wasn't my real mom's voice on the phone. The tonal qualities were different. When I told her I had been to Atlanta, she practically exploded at me. She told me that I was confused and she was coming to see me. She hung up, and the next day, she arrived at my apartment. From the moment I laid eyes on her, I knew that it was NOT my real mother. Her voice was different, her manners were different, and she didn't know what my mom knows about me. I know, cause I checked her out on little details about my past life. I didn't know what was going on, but I was mad and I was scared. After determining for certain that this was a clone of my real mom, I threw her out of my apartment. That night, the police came by, and tried to get me to open the door so they could grab me and take me back over to the little mental hospital. But I was smart back then, and wouldn't take the chain off the door. So they left. After they were gone, I decided I had had enough, and so I got in my car and took off into the night, terrified. I got on the interstate and started driving. I figured since my "fake" mom didn't like the idea of my going to Atlanta, that it would be safe up there. So I drove back up to Atlanta, and wound up getting trapped in the city overnight in a blinding snowstorm. I tried going to the FBI office there for help, but only got the runaround, although they DID act like it was very important information I had about one particular person the operator kept asking me about all the time over the summer. I wound up spending the night at one of the local college's student centers. I called my dad from there, and he knew where I was calling from without my telling him, so I figured somebody was able to trace the call pretty good. I also knew, from what he told me, that he was being held against his will somewhere. He told me to go back to Tallahassee and go into the hospital, or he wouldn't send me any money to get back there, as I had zoomed away without enough cash to get back. I knew I would need the cash, so I just said I would. I hadn't planned on going back there no matter what, but I didn't know exactly where I would head to yet. So I lied and said I would go pick up the cash if he would send it by Western Union. He agreed to this, and wished me good luck. What took place after that would make a good story in itself! Suffice it to say that I picked up the money okay at the Western Union office, but then I wandered around in the city, with some VERY interesting results. When I got back to the student center, it was real late, and I laid down on a couch like the other people trapped there for the night, and went to sleep. When I awoke the next morning, the snow had cleared enough for me to leave. I decided that there was just too much nonsense going on for me to return to Tallahassee, and so I just continued driving north on I-75, planning to head towards Washington, D.C. On the way there, the snow was still coming down on a long section of freeway, and I slid out of control and slammed my car into the retaining wall. There was some damage to my car, but I was able to continue. Fortunately, I have a lot of experience driving in rain, and I was able to control the swerve so the damage was not too bad. I pulled off the road near Cinncinati, Ohio to get a bite to eat. I made an illegal U-turn near the restaurant, and a cop pulled me over. He let me go with a warning though, and I went to have some dinner and coffee. Although I had been driving all day and most of the night, I was still in pretty good shape. When I finished eating, I decided to ask for an escort to Washington, as I was afraid because of stuff happening around me while I was driving, of someone trying to kill me on the road before I got there. I know it was a stupid idea, but I went ahead and called the Highway Patrol for an escort, telling them I some sort of a spy, and I had vital information needed to save the country from an enemy missle attack. Eventually, they sent a highway patrol car and a regular police car to the restaurant. The highway patrolmen were considerate as to my situation, but the regular police acted like I was some kind of criminal for reasons I couldn't understand. When they checked my car, they asked me about the damage, but I wouldn't say what had happened, and so they took me into protective custody. They took me to the police station, and then something happened that made me wonder just how far the situation with alien clones had gone. The police called my father and told me that he was flying in to pick me up, but then some very wierd stuff took place, and instead they took me over to Cinncinati General Hospital for supposed evaluation. The next day, I was transferred over to a nearby mental hospital, and placed in a locked ward for the next 4 weeks. The people there acted extremely bizarre, and the whole thing was a total sham. But I was trapped, and I spent a month in misery walking the halls, biding my time for the day I would be released. During the time I was there, I was so distraut by what was going on in the place, I called the FBI office in Cinncinati and told them that the hospital was a sham. They asked to speak to one of the people there, and I put the social worker on the phone, who gave a false name to the FBI agent. After that, I didn't screw around with them, but swore an oath that someday I would expose their fraudulant hospital to the world. At the end of the month, my REAL dad flew in to drive with me back to Tallahassee. I knew it was my real dad, and I also knew that he was pretending to his best to give the impression that nothing was wrong. I had the impression that he was being watched somehow every minute we were together, although I didn't know exactly how at the time. I just played along with it all, as I wanted OUT of that nuthouse. So we started driving back to Tallahassee that day. When we got back to Tallahassee, I began to understand just how serious my dad's situation really was. He was not acting "normal" at all, for him. When he covered up the story I had told to the police with feigned tears, I knew something was terribly wrong. I can tell when someone is faking anything, and I KNOW my own father, so I was able to discern that he was only "pretending" to cry. Then I realized that he was pretending because someone was somehow WATCHING him at the time! My dad was trying to fool THEM! I didn't know what to make of that at the time, but I swore I would someday find out what was going on. My dad found me a different apartment, one closer to FSU, where I live to this day as it is the best apartment complex in town. He had wanted to stick me in a halfway house, which is what I had promised him I would do in order to get out of the hospital, but I wouldn't go for it. So we moved all my stuff from my previous apartment, and the next day I took him to the airport to fly back to LA. I was mad as hell at whatever was going on, and so I treated him pretty poorly as he left. When he once again feigned crying, I knew it was to protect himself from whatever, and so I didn't say anything. He got on the plane and headed back. The next few weeks were hard on me, because I didn't have any classes to attend, and so felt lonely. I did have the FSU Plato system to learn from, but it just wasn't enough support, and gradually I began to slip backwards again. It ended up that I went driving off into the night in terror for a second time, this time from things that were going on around me in the town itself. I got on I-10 and started heading back to LA, in the hope that being around my family would pull me out of the fear and loneliness. I wound up losing my car in a crowded airport parking lot at the Houston Intercontinental Airport. I was in such a poor state of mind, that I believed that a computer fault I had come across on the government computer system I had spent many years on was somehow responsible for a sneak missle attact on the United States. It was at this point in time that I came across the fact that people were being replaced. How this was proved to me is shown later in the book. Suffice it to say that I wound up being incarcerated against my will in another mental hospital for a month, only this time they FORGED my NAME on the admission form to do it! At the end of the month, my dad flew in again, but this time he flew me back to LA with him. My mom got me a shrink in West Los Angeles, and I started taking injections of an anti-psychotic drug called Prolixin. I spent a happy, though angry, spring with my parents, and even went with them on a trip to Hawaii for a week. I had NO thoughts that these were not my real parents at the time, and I eventually put off the events with my mom in Tallahassee as misguided assumptions, although in the back of my mind there remained the fact that I am not ususally wrong when I think something funny is going on. As the summer came around back then in 1982, I said goodbye to my real parents and drove back to Tallahassee to return to school at FSU. My mind was at peace, because my parents WERE my real parents back then, and I was pretty confident that nothing would change that fact. I did not know how much more WRONG I could have been! The next two semesters at FSU went well, and I did good in my classes. However, as the summer appoached, my mind began to slip back to the events that had unraveled the year before. I found myself becoming more and more angry at myself for not having taken steps to file charges against the hospital in Houston that had forged my name, and I still didn't know what had really been going on at that hospital when I discovered that people were somehow being systematically replaced. Around August, I wound up getting throw into the local mental hospital again. This time around, I had proof positive that something VERY wrong was going on here in town. The stuff that was going on in the hospital was insane. It had no logical explanation, except to confirm my suspicions from the year before. I was physically abused this time, and had to placate my captors immensely in order to be released. This time though, being released was like merely being turned loose into the world of the unknown outside in the town. I didn't have my parents or my family to fall back on, and in fact, I felt that both my parents were being held prisoners in some CIA base somewhere. Although getting back to classes in September helped some, I still felt like a stranger in a strange land. The teachers I had were acting funny, and wierd things were going on all the time in class. As the weeks progressed, I found that I could not concentrate on my classwork very well, and gradually I had a complete breakdown. The end result of this was my running out of gas on the freeway, and getting smashed from behind by a pickup truck. When I woke up from being knocked unconcious, I was in the hospital, and my mom was standing there at the foot of my bed. I had been damaged pretty bad, and it was a miracle that I had lived. I lost a piece of my nose, and my face had been smashed pretty badly, but fortunately I had a real good plastic surgeon. Then my mom (not sure to this day if it was my REAL mom or not at the time) did something that convinced me that the aliens wanted me on a platter. From that moment on, I have been VERY careful as to what I say or do, or even think! After I got out of the regular hospital, I had problems dealing with reality even on the simplest of levels. So I wound up being thrown back into the mental hospital again, this time by my mom. This time in there, I discovered that people were indeed reading my mind directly as I had suspected. I also learned for the first time that God himself or his angels were trying to help me in my plight. I know that sounds even more incedible than aliens invading us, but my conclusions were drawn from logical sets of events. I was flown back to LA again for a third time, only this time I knew that BOTH my parents had been switched. I spent a fearsome time, but I had planned ahead and drawn enough money out of the bank before I left, so I could go back whenever I desired. Most of the time there was spent thinking I was on another planet, due to the kinds of things that were happening around me. I realize now that most of it was imaginary, but there are parts that were as real and unexplainable as can be. After only a few weeks, I drove back to Tallahassee without a word to my "parents." Despite the fact that I felt very much alone, I put myself back in school, and tried to finish up the classes I had to drop because of the accident. I did all right for a few months, but then things began to happen in my classes again at FSU. I tried to ignore them like previously, but this time I had nobody supportive to fall back on. Slowly I began to break down again from the stress, and wound up getting throw back again into the mental hospital around the middle of December. This time I decided to go back to LA, and so they released me on my own recognizance in order to fly back there. My FAKE father met me at the airport, and this time I knew I was going to be framed up bad. My REAL mom and my FAKE mom were being interchanged continuously throughout the time I was there, which consisted mainly of my being forced into signing myself into two more mental hospitals for the duration of my stay. I was released from the second one and flown back to Florida one day too late to register for classes for the spring semester of 1984. I COULD have late-registered, but at the time, I wasn't quite sure of which DIMENSION I was residing in! So I got back into Plato, and learned all the computer languages I could from that. I enrolled in Lively Vo-Tech that summer, and took up Electronics Technology. I really enjoyed it, having fallen in love with electronics some time back, and having learned most of it already on my own, I breezed through the courses. This was where I met my electronics teacher, who confirmed that the United States government did indeed have little alien bodies on ice at Hangar 18, now known as the Environmental Control Building. He also told me about the other strange things that the Air Force had in that building, and that it was the most highly guarded building in the world. Unfortunately, he too was replaced sometime after I had told him my story and he told me he was going to try to help me. After that, I thought twice about telling other people about my problems. Things went smoothly for me through the fall. I enjoyed my class at Lively and was doing quite well in it. Then, around the first of the year, something happened that disturbed my brief period of stability. I got into a conversation with a girl on Plato, which has inter-terminal communications capability, who told me that seven of HER friends had been replaced! I was shocked and terrified. I had thought that only those people in direct contact with me were being affected, but it turned out that complete strangers were being replaced as well. I was determined to put a stop to it. I got in touch with Dr. Allen J. Hynek, the leading authority on UFOs at the time. He told me to keep a low profile, and NOT to go public with the information until I could build up a dialog of communication with him. I started to sit down at my computer and write him about the things I was experiencing, but stopped after the first paragraph. How could I put into writing the unbelievable events that had taken place over the past FIVE YEARS!? I was at a loss, and determined that I would go see him in person at his headquarters in Chicago while on a trip to see my sister in Kansas. I drove to Kansas that summer, only to discover that my younger sister and my brother-in-law had been replaced as well. I was dismayed, and left there in a complete state of despair, and headed for Chicago, praying that Dr. Hynek could help me. But when I got to his office, I discovered that he was gone on a vacation and his partner, too, had been replaced. I was wrought with horror and anger, at what had transpired on the trip, and how worthless it had been. I made a vow to myself, that if ever circumstances lent themselves to give me a chance to expose the goings-on to the world, that I would take it! After I got back from the trip, I threw myself back into schoolwork to try to forget what had happened. I did all right for the fall semester, but then around Christmas vacation I began to feel depressed again. And AGAIN my "mom" flew down and threw me into the hospital! This time I learned that God was trying to help me personally, and that there were a lot of other "beings" trying to save us also. I was so confused by all this that I almost couldn't function on a rational level anymore. After two weeks in the hospital here, I was flown back to LA again. This time, they weren't taking any chances, and drove me right from the airport to UCLA Medical Center, and threw me into the psychiatric ward. Some interesting things occured there, but basically, it was a turnilng point for me in the sense that I began to fight back. I filed a writ of Habeus Corpus after two weeks, and went to court and got the judge to release me. From that moment on, I knew I could defeat their plans. They didn't know anything about law, and that was in my favor. I spent a couple of months with my REAL mom and FAKE dad over the spring. My REAL dad was locked up in the alien prison camp, so I didn't have much to do with the fake one. My real dad had shown up for just a few minutes at my court appearance, but then he was whisked out shortly before the judge released me, and replaced by his clone. I assumed by this that they were afraid only IN the courtroom. I swore to myself that I would get my fake dad into a courtroom, only this time over a REAL case. I didn't know how truthful it would turn out to be. I went to a computer class at Santa Monica College during this time period, and I planned out my revenge. I knew that my fake dad was doing a live show on KNBC as the Friendly Pharmacist, and I knew that he had access to the studios. I didn't plan yet to enter the studios with a toy gun, but I was determined to use that access to my advantage. I merely went to school and bided my time. When the summer of 1986 rolled around, I had completed my class, and drove back to Tallahassee. I had it in my mind to take some action before the next summer. I had no idea yet what it would be, but I was keeping all my options open. I knew I had to find out more information about the situations that had taken place at all the mental hospitals, so I went about getting ahold of my records. I was unable to obtain them all, because they broke the law and refused to give some of them to me, but using subterfuge, I did obtain a good percent of them. I rented a safe deposit box, to protect them from anyone's eyes but mine, in case what I was planning failed and my apartment was closed out again. When I was getting all my records, I realized that I had to get back inside one of the hospitals to see if there was still nonsense going on, and to have a backup plan ready in case I wound up there if my plans went awry. I picked UCLA, which was convenient, seeing as I could ask to go there if something went wrong. So, in January of 1987, I drove back to LA and checked into the hospital, for the first time of my own choosing! I spent about three weeks in UCLA, observing what was going on with great intent. I determined that I could handle a couple of weeks in there, if the plans I were making backfired. I noted everything that went on, and kept a mental log of all the staffing assignments. I "interviewed" the patients that were there, so as to see how much of a problem I would have if I returned under less desirable circumstances. When I left, I was satisfied that there was nothing anyone could do to stop me. I took up another computer class at Santa Monica College while waiting for my chance to strike. I was going out with a sweet girl from New Jersey, when Joan McCaughey stumbled into my life. I met her at the beach one day, and we became very close friends. It turned out that she had a problem with fake parents herself, although not of the cloned variety. It also turned out that she had had intimate contact with UFOs in her past, and I spent a couple of weeks with her, trying to track down the mystery of her family. It turned out they owned half of LA county. It was at this time, around June of 1987, that I bought the toy gun. I kept it under the passenger seat in my car, waiting for the chance I would get to use it. I was keeping close track of my fake dad's schedule at the studio, and was going to go in with him and hold the gun on him, and force HIM to read the statement over the air, when everything fell apart. He lost his job there, and I didn't know exactly what I was going to do. So I decided to take Joan back to Florida with me, and make my play from there, leaving my fake dad to think that I was out of the way. Joan and I spent an enjoyable "vacation" in Florida. We went all over the state and had a great time doing it. It was all part of my plan to make my fake dad forget all about me. I didn't know what he had told the people at KNBC about me, and it turned out that I had made the right decisions. I believe now that had I walked in with him, I never would have gotten "on the air", so to speak. After we got done traveling around, I started planning for the trip back to LA. It turned out that I took out just enough money from the bank to get there with about a gallon of gas to spare. My mom called us in Tallahassee, and Joan accidently told her we were coming back. She couldn't understand WHY I was coming back, and she was understandably worried. I just let Joan talk to her, as she wouldn't be able to interpret MY hostilities through Joan. The trip back was like a non-stop adventure. Although we stopped at Carlsbad Caverns in New Mexico for some sightseeing, the majority of the trip consisted of my driving at top speed toward an uncertain future. I knew I could get into the studios, but what then? Would I be shot dead by the police, and would my message go out LIVE so nobody could edit it? I did not know the answers to those questions as we drove on through the night. When we got to LA, I dropped Joan off, then went over to my parents apartment. My fake dad answered the door, and he was pissed! Why had I come back, he wanted to know. I wouldn't say. I just took my suitcases into the spare bedroom, and went to bed. I could hear him arguing with my REAL mom outside for a good while. It turned out that my fake dad wasn't going to let me stay there past one night, so the next day I took the spare mattress over to Joans apartment and stayed the rest of the time there. The next two weeks were spent planning out exactly how I would compromise the studio. I made contact with the TV newswoman who would get me onto the set. I made sure I did this from a pay phone, as I knew my parents' phones were all completely tapped. I started writing up what I would hand the person on the air to read, although I didn't get to finishing it until one hour before I was to be at the studio because of procrastination. That has always been one of my shortcomings. The day before I was to enter the studio, I tried the toy gun out on a friend of mine to see if it would get the desired results. The test was a complete success, as my friend was scared to death at first sight of the gun. I had the stuff ready, and I was in a good frame of mind to go ahead and do it. At 3:30 pm on Wednesday, August 19, 1987 I entered the studio. In a little over one hour later, it was all over. I had MADE the national news. I had spent my wad, and I bear the results of that deed to this day. In the four years since that event, I have kept a silent vigil. I have endured many sorrows, and been chastised for my doings by many around me. But I still keep my head high, and think of what plight this world would be in now had I NOT done what I did that day. It rocked the world, but MORE importantly, it rocked the aliens and their plan for global domination! I have lived a lonely life since that day. But I have great hope for the future now. If you want to learn more about this, and the complete story of how all this has taken place, and how YOU can help in the fight to save our planet from these monsters who have us outgunned, read on. Read on, FELLOW HUMAN! This is from garys@bluemoon.rn.com who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet Path: ns-mx!uunet!math.fu-berlin.de!zrz.tu-berlin.de!harti From: harti@mikro.ee.tu-berlin.de (Stefan Hartmann) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.binaries.pictures.misc,sci.space Subject: UFO-GIF-pics, how to get them ! Summary: ufo Keywords: ufo Message-ID: Date: 8 Apr 92 18:27:40 GMT Sender: news@mailgzrz.tu-berlin.de (News Manager) Organization: ZRZ/TU-Berlin Lines: 33 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5227 alt.binaries.pictures.misc:4581 sci.space:28874 Nntp-Posting-Host: mikro.ee.tu-berlin.de Hi, as there are now some scanned UFO-sighting-GIF-pictures available at the UFO-ftp-site at phoenix.oulu.fi (130.231.240.17), there are still many people out there, who don't know how to access them. Here is how to log onto phoenix and grab the pics: ftp 130.231.240.17 anonymous ftp cd pub/ufo_and_space_pics ls -l prompt binary mget *.gif quit This is the sequence You have to type to get the UFO-GIF-pics from phoenix. The ed*.gif -pics are from the book: UFOs, es gibt sie from Ed Walters (German Edition, ISBN:3-426-26463-3) (UFOs, they are here). These are the currently best available UFO-pics from a real sighting in color. The sighting took place in 1987 and 1989 in Pensacola,Florida in the Gulf Breeze region (USA) and it is really worth reading the book ! alien.gif and ufohouse.gif are from the Maria Popovich book: UFO-Glasnost It is also a good book to read. Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for Decentral Energy Research email to: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!uwm.edu!linac!tellab5!jcj From: jcj@tellabs.com (jcj) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <1992Apr7.135719.12355@tellab5.tellabs.com> Date: 7 Apr 92 13:57:19 GMT References: <1992Apr4.014550.14207@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> Sender: news@tellab5.tellabs.com (News) Organization: Wazmodyne Industries Lines: 15 Nntp-Posting-Host: sungb In article <1992Apr4.014550.14207@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes: >We are all pulling for ya buddy! keep up the good work, and >don't let the aliens steal your sanity. >I still watch CNN, but haven't seen anything weird or unusual >except they keep featuring Bill Clinton. Keep us posted! The Lynn Russell clone has been neutralized! Check out the *real* Lynn's haircolor now. Oh yeah! Check this out! I bought some dogfood and a bottle of seltzer at the grocery store and the total (with tax) was... $11.11 !?!??!!!! -- Alpha Boombah Holder of the '86 Honda key, drinker of Beer, Anti-bandwidth waster of the Loons Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!uw-beaver!pullen From: pullen@cs.washington.edu (Walter D. Pullen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: What do the _Greys_ *REALLY* want from us? Summary: Co-creation for the mutual benefit of both of us in a new society. Keywords: Greys Message-ID: <1992Apr9.033458.13626@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Date: 9 Apr 92 03:34:58 GMT Sender: news@beaver.cs.washington.edu (USENET News System) Organization: University of Washington Computer Science Lines: 449 Of all the extraterrestrial civilizations visiting the Earth at this time, two races stand out in the UFO literature and in the net discussions: The "Greys" and the Pleiadians. This is because they are the two races presently interacting the most with humankind. The Pleiadians and most of the other civilizations are non-interfering, simply observing or else are trying to deliver the message of Spirit to Earth. The Greys, however, are known to be basically the only race actively "interfering" and affecting the lives of people on Earth. Based on some of the things they are doing, some consider them to be an evil race with malicious schemes and intentions. I said it before in a previous article (containing an excerpt written by Earlyne Chaney of the Metaphysical School of Astara) and I repeat it again: The Greys are NOT are here to harm us in any way whatsoever, and are here to help us as friends in our planetary growth taking place during these powerful times in Earth's evolution. However, in this article I would like to go into a little more detail into what the Greys *are* here for, and address various other things concerning them. A wide variety of sources say various things about the Greys: For example, they are behind almost all of the "abductions" taking place, during which they seemingly kidnap people against their will, make implants, and perform various examinations, including sexual ones. The cattle "mutilations" are attributed to them as well, along with secret meetings between them and the U.S. government. A look at these allegations can easily make one think a huge conspiracy is in the works. In fact, most of the things attributed to them are true, although it still doesn't change the fact that they are here to help, for reasons that will be explained. The Greys are here for basically one purpose: To create a new race of beings. Entities of this race are known as Hybrids because they are a cross between the Greys and Earth humans. The reason why these Hybrids are being made is twofold: To save their species and to help ours. In order to explain how the Hybrids will save us both, and explain the rationale behind their actions, a general description of the Greys and their features should be made: These extraterrestrials are called the Greys because of how they look. A typical Grey alien is about 3-4' tall, has whiteish-grey skin and no hair, a large head with small facial features, and large black lidless eyes. They come from a place known as Zeta Reticulum, and are part of a larger Confederation of Planets known as the "Network". They are actually quite small and frail, although can can move swiftly, in motions that would appear to us jerky. Just as there are different races of humans on Earth, so are there a few different types of Greys: For instance some have more brownish skin or other varying features, and not all reside in that particular solar system. Although the Greys have only been actively doing abductions and other work for the past few decades (similar to the over 100 other races that have taken up observation since 1945) they have actually been in contact with Earth for the last several centuries, their influence going back almost as long as that of the Pleiadians. Actually the term "Grey" (I like to call the Grey aliens "Greyliens" for short.) for this race of extraterrestrials is appropriate for another reason: their disposition. The Greys have a "hive" mentality, and are completely devoted to the needs of their collective race. They work together extremely well, and have little sense of ego or personal individuality. They are basically all the same, and to us would seem dreary and boring. (I have a couple of examples of channeled messages from the Reticulum itself, that I might post if there's interest; although very interesting material on the abductions from *their* point of view, is always written in a dry and unflowing manner.) There are virtually no disagreements among them of any kind, since they all serve the collective needs. The Greys are hence very unemotional, and behave much like Spock or Data would on Star Trek. (Ever see a Grey smile? I haven't, and I think they should more often. :) Some might think that the Greys are a reptilian race, but this isn't true. Rather they are in insect-like race. Some say the Greys look a lot like giant insects, and I believe that is perhaps part of their history - a highly evolved insect race. This accounts not only for jerky movements, but their unemotional and hard working collective mentality. The contents of my earlier post said they are like humanized robots which are working for a few magnificent Angelic beings. These master aliens could in our insect analogy play the role of the "queens". An interesting piece of trivia is that, according to one source, the influence of the Greys in our society has been expressed through the introduction of Rap music, and although I can't verify anything, this music would probably fit them well. The collective consciousness of the Greys has many good assets, such as high productivity, psychic connection, and one-pointedness of thought. There is always concern for the future and the environment, and there are rarely any conflicts because they all work for the group. Negatively, they can be seen as detached "sheep" that allow themselves to be dominated by the group. Our individuality also has many good assets, such as accelerated soul growth, here and now aliveness, and a uniqueness that makes each person special. Negatively, we are seen as overemotional, moody people who care only for today and only do what enhances our sense of ego self. It is interesting to compare ourselves to the Greys - we are very different from each other. We humans are individualistic, while they are collective. We are emotional, while they are detached. What it comes down to is that the Greys and the Humans, are basically exact opposites of each other. To put it simply, together we form a duality. We represent the individual, and they represent the society. Our emphasis has been on valuing personal growth, while theirs has been on unified growth. And this duality is the ultimate causal reason which brings the Greys and us into interaction with each other. Like attracts like, but opposites attract too, since in truth, polarized opposites are one. (For the astrologically inclined, the archetype for the Greys is Capricorn, ruled by Saturn, the unemotional, contractive zodiac sign of discipline and work, yielding productive results. For contrast, the sign best describing the Pleiadians is expansive, enthusiastic Sagittarius, ruled by Jupiter, dealing with travel, education, and lofty philosophical thought. The archetype for we of Earth is erratic, unpredictable Aquarius, ruled by Uranus, of individual thought and new ideas. And, not to get off the subject, but, for some of the other more prominent extraterrestrial races: The beings from Sirius rule watery, spiritual, dreamy Pisces; those from Arcturus rule loving and caring Cancer; the Orions rule fiery, intense Scorpio; the DAL Universe entities rule pure, analytical, service oriented Virgo; the Lyrians rule self-expressive Leo; any of the forceful energy from the Andromeda galaxy is well expressed in Aries; and finally the Essassanis (described later) rule peaceful, friendly, blanced Libra.) The Greys are a dying race. This is because their collectiveness is to such a degree that they have stifled individual life, and hence the "cells" that make up the Reticulum are dying. We of Earth (at least in the forties) were also a dying race headed toward self-destruction: Greed, egotism, selfishness of all kinds, combined with more and deadlier weapons without respect for others or our planet. We both were headed toward our extinction, and there was only one thing that could save us both: each other! This is the reason behind the creation of the Hybrid race - to create a race of beings with the best of both worlds: individual power and uniqueness combined with a strong inclination to work together harmoniously. In order to create the Hybrid bodies, we need to mix the DNA of Humans and Greys. The main thing done by the Greys in the abduction of people is the sampling of sperm which is then united with the egg of a female alien, or else the sampling of a human egg which is united with alien sperm. Recently, there has been direct alien/human mating aboard their craft. In "Communion", I heard sometimes a human female is impregnated with alien sperm, and the fetus is then "stolen" out of the uterus in a later abduction. This is why so many of the extraterrestrial examinations are of a sexual nature, and similar precise scars made during them. Of course, this process has lots of complexity, and the Greys have to be attuned to the growth of the abductees and many other things, since they can't just fly in and beam someone up off the street. This can explain the purpose of the implants as well as contacts throughout life all the way back to childhood. (It also explains the rationale of a case posted to the net earlier, i.e. why an alien was annoyed when it realized an abductee had had a vasectomy earlier.) The Greys are behind the so-called cattle mutilations. This is because human and Grey DNA aren't the only things going into the Hybrids, a few other creatures, including our Earth cattle, have been used. If one were to examine such a "mutilation", they would probably find them to be done in a formal manner with precise cuts like the abductions. As for why the cattle are killed and left lying there, several possibilities come to mind: First, the Greys are so detached and down to business that they would be wholly devoted to their task at hand, and cleaning up is therefore "irrelevant" to the mission. Precise cuts and hard to duplicate biological modifications can be done to promote speculation among us as to the aliens' presense, (like the crop circles). Finally, some of the Earth Change literature says cattle are one of the species that have been asked to be "taken off the Earth" before the Equinox, so constructively using the cattle for a good purpose does no harm. At any rate, the Greys are much more humane and serve a higher purpose than the ways people butcher cattle for meat. The Greys are ahead of us in technology due to their ability to work together and since they never repress or destroy technology; that and the importance of a society aimed toward an important collective goal is why the Greys are abducting us and are charged with the creation of the Hybrid race, and not the other way around. Many of the people abducted are made so that they remember nothing of the experience, except for perhaps "missing time" or other symptoms that come up later, until they are recalled through hypnosis or other methods. One might ask why people are abducted seemingly without their consent, and why most of them aren't formally asked for permission beforehand. It is important to remember that all "abductions" are based on agreement. In other words, anyone detained by extraterrestrials has subconsciously, either during sleep, before their present incarnation, or whatever, has agreed to take it into their dharma to help Earth in its work with the extraterrestrials. Most of the people being abducted are advanced spiritually, and close to overcoming the last of their fears, even if they aren't consciously aware of it, and are deserving of praise for the sacrifices they are making in service to the Greys and to humanity. Much of what is experienced is difficult to process and has lasting effects, as I can attest to in personally knowing more than one detainee, and love and understanding is essential in helping to recover and integrate. There is another important consideration to remember: The Greys are as afraid of us as we are of them! Some of our fear in connection with the Greys is the fact that they are here to help bring the collective, unified mind to all of us, and we are scared that we might lose our individuality and personal power. The Greys represent the collective mind, and that frightens many of us; however, we represent the individual mind, and that greatly scares *them*! Keep in mind that the Greys are *not* any better than we are, and we should not give up our individual freedom nor do anything other than what we choose or agree to do; after all, that very quality is the asset we are contributing in our interaction. Nobody is coming to enslave us, and nobody is coming to save us either, rather we are co-creating with various civilizations to the mutual benefit of both parties. The Greys have been increasingly affecting our society since the forties, and many images showing humanity's conscious or subconscious fears or hopes in relation to the extraterrestrials have entered our culture. For example, the movies, "Alien 1..3" and the series "V" (in addition to their obvious other purposes, i.e. to make money and be entertainment) represent our pessimism and fears toward the potentials of an alien presense. On the other hand, "E.T." and many of the episodes of Star Trek TNG represent our optimistic hopes for an empathic interaction where we can both gain. By far the best TV/movie example I've seen which captures the essence of the Greys is "The Best of Both Worlds" episode of Star Trek TNG, featuring a race of aliens called the "Borg". (Interestingly enough, part I of the episode was re-aired on Fox Friday night, and part II yesterday.) The Borg were a leaderless group, all the control being spread throughout the collective consciousness of their ship, meaning it's almost impossible to seriously harm them since they have no critical sections. They were very adaptable and dispassionate, and the many half-organic half-robot beings aboard their unemotional, drab, gray, geometric ship fits the Greys very well, too. (Although the Greys seem about equal in technology to the Pleiadians, their ships are more Spartan, and rather then being saucer shaped, seem to be more angular: triangular and cylinder shaped craft come to mind.) About the only thing inaccurate about the representation was that the Borg were an evil, hostile race which absolutely "absorbed" races it conquered, probably similar to what some fear the Greys are like in real life. Quite a few real UFO cases include the Greys and Hybrids. I'll mention a couple of interesting ones: At a UFO convention I was at a few months ago, Wendelle Stevens, the eminent author of many UFO books, lectured on a case that took place not long ago in (I think) Puerto Rico. In it, a group of several dozen people were simultaneously detained and taken aboard a large spacecraft. There were a few human-like alien leaders, along with a bunch of 3'-4' worker aliens who looked like the Greys. The people were all quite apprehensive of the alien creatures, but the leader told them they were quite harmless, and proceeded to pick up one of the "Greys" and give it a piggy-back ride. Another case was on a UFO TV special on network television a year or two ago, on I think, "Unsolved Mysteries". In this one, a father and son, after "missing time", recorded under hypnosis a landing of Grey like aliens and one Hybrid. The man and son felt very at home with them, like the extraterrestrials were their true family, and were especially empathic with the Hybrid, and they could hardly bear to leave the aliens when their meeting ended. Concerning the Hybrids and their being the future of the human race, I once again refer to the book "Bashar: Blueprint for Change; A Message from our Future", by Darryl Anka and Luana Ewing. In this book Darryl channels a loving and enthusiastic extraterrestrial from our future by the name of Bashar. I have posted four various excerpts from the book to the net in recent months. (A couple of them, about questions on "good" and "bad" extraterrestrials, and on extraterrestrial abductions and visitations and fear in general, are quite relevant to this article.) Again, I highly recommend this book - it gives a detailed view about the Reticulans and Hybrids, and information on a few other important races: the Pleiadians of course, and those from Orion, Sirius, and Arcturus. However, the majority of the 302 page book deals with personal growth in various forms, such as fear and how to overcome it, Christ's true message and what the "second coming" is really referring to, a macroscopic view of a timeline of Earth changes and how we can individually integrate them, and a lot more. What wasn't stated until near the end of the book, however, is that Bashar himself is one of the Hybrids! Bashar goes in depth to describe Essassani, his home planet and the home planet of his Hybrid race, which is apparently the future result of our interaction with the Reticulans. Essassani means "place of living light" and the descriptions he gives of them and their culture show a remarkable amount of collectively working together, along with lots of personal freedom and support of each individual's choices, and love and enthusiasm everywhere. Essassani, the future planet, is a more "etherealized" planet than Earth, and would be in what has been called "fourth density". Some of the Earth change literature refers to people leaving the planet, "graduating" from the Earth plane, a new fourth density Earth, etc. I hypothesize that some of us will actually be in Hybrid bodies in future incarnations! Although it is possible to "ascend" all the way in our fine present human bodies, we should not get attached to them or the human race, since the real self is not the body. In a Hybrid body personal spiritual growth is easier due to the increased emphasis on the One, more natural psychic faculties, and a more naturally loving etheric environment - kind of like upgrading from the old VT100 terminals to X windows! Much of the suspicion concerning the Greys focuses on their involvement with the U.S. government, and this apparently has lots to do with the conspiracies some expect them to be behind. In fact, It *is* true that the Greys have met with our government, although again, the rationale is for a higher purpose, and most of the stories one hears on this matter are distorted or highly exaggerated. To me, any conspiracy on the part of the Greys is illogical. If they did have tendencies to "take over", they could have done so much more easily several hundred years ago when they first started observation. (Actually, this isn't completely true, since the Intergalactic Confederations strictly prohibit and prevent any such imperialism that isn't part of the karmic evolution of the civilizations in question - As the Pleiadians say, they are here to aid us until we learn to help ourselves.) What the Greys have been doing is too precise and calculated to simply be harassment. If they wanted to cause fear or take over, there are much more effective methods then doing abductions in the present way and taking an occasional sample from cattle. The first modern formal scientific encounter Earth had with extraterrestrials occurred when a Reticulum ship crashed in the southwest US in 1947, killing a couple of Greys on board. This was truly an accident, due to a radar malfunction, although again, it did serve a planned higher purpose, and those Greys did, somewhere, agree to honorably give their lives to show our government the first evidence that we aren't alone. The reason why the Greys didn't land publicly is the same reason why the government hasn't been releasing information to us about the extraterrestrials (in addition to, of course, the government's own selfishness about staying in control and wanting to keep secrets away from other nations) which is, that such a revelation would be a terrible shock to the core of the general culture and would drastically alter society. (Imagine the upheaval in our religious organizations!) For this reason, it's desired to have a gradual introduction of extraterrestrials to our society, or ultimately, have Earth's integration of the alien presense come about through our own deduction and acceptance, rather than having it forced upon us by some public landing. This is part of the purpose behind many of the sightings, abductions, visitations, as well as the crop circles: to get us thinking and questioning. Although the Greys formally showed themselves to the government, they along with the Pleiadians and other races are waiting for the government on its own to admit to the alien presence. Like it or not, the government is representative of the collective consciousness of the people, and when enough of the population believe they exist (a small group demanding the truth can help but won't do it) this will make the government release the information, since it would cause no societal problems with most knowing the facts already. Even though our government can use improvement in many areas, we have to remember that we are a part of it, and we through our actions and inactions allowed what we currently have to be manifest, and the extraterrestrials know and respect that. If we don't like what we see, then we should work to change it - from a standpoint of love and understanding of course, lest one become just as dogmatic as what they desire to change. There have been other meetings between the Greys and our government. The early ones between them were probably very much like the one in "Close Encounters of the Third Kind". Some of these have probably been similar to some information that was passed from the Pleiadians to our government in the 1970's; according to "UFO Contact from the Pleiades" they tried to warn us about an ozone hole that would form if we didn't correct some of our destructive environmental ways. Several alien civilizations claim to have hidden bases on Earth, and with the Greys' difficult genetic task at hand, they are certain to have one, too. Meetings may have been necessary with the government to get certain materials or places, and the Greys may occasionally have to drop in to clarify things when a key government person themself is needed to be detained to help make the Hybrid race! Comparing again the Pleiadians and the Greys, one can see how the Pleiadians are seen as friendly while the Greys seem more untrustworthy. The attractive Pleiadians look like humans, and seem more like cousins than aliens; after all, we come from a common ancestry. The headstrong, enthusiastic nature of the Pleiadians isn't threatening to the individualism characterizing us. The Greys however are "different", and are seen much like how many humans would view a foreigner or someone of a different race. Earth's interactions with various extraterrestrial races can be seen as a macroscopic version of the interaction between different ethnic groups in a local community. And in both cases, understanding and mutual cooperation helps both sides. The best way I can think of to sum up how we relate with both races is as follows: The Pleiadians are Earth's older sibling, while the Greys are Earth's spouse. They are both helping out in Earth's growth in different ways - the Pleiadians can be seen as "internal" growth and the Greys as "external" growth. As my friend Arasia said in those earlier posts on Antahkarana, "Labeling the gray ET's as bad and the blond ET's as good could be an oversimplification." Perhaps much of what causes the idea of fear toward the Greys is rather fear toward the collectiveness that they represent. Collective thought is a threat to certain rigid self boundaries that the ego defends. Earth is facing and overcoming much of its own fears in connection with the Greys just as the Greys are facing their fear in their dealings with us. Their having to meet with individual humans and with a self-centered government is a very good way to put the Greys in touch with and overcome their own denial of individuality. If there were actually a conspiracy, I would say certain governments, worried about losing power, are painting a picture of the Greys as having evil intent, and hence can keep fear in the society, and slow down the creation of the Hybrids. In other words, the conspiracy itself is a conspiracy! However, rather than entertain such ideas (the ego loves to deal with and invent external threats since they are exciting and reinforce the structure of the self) I would say the problem is more of an individual one, one where we still have personal issues and fears to deal with on the way to realizing we are all One. I hope this article helps to shed light on the Greys and what they are doing here, and I hope any fear or pessimism concerning the alien presence is reduced and is replaced with hope, enthusiasm, and the will to take action and create a heaven on Earth. Ultimately, the goodness or badness of anything is determined in how we choose to view it. As it was said concerning the aliens, "We are them and they are us". External things mirror back to us the way we choose to interact with them; if one is tough on the environment, the environment will be tough on them; if one choose to play the role of a victim, something will come along to play an oppressor. Nothing bad will happen to us unless we want it to. I notice increased suspicion of the aliens comes right after the fall of the Berlin Wall. Who is going to be "The Enemy" now? What would it be like to choose or have no enemies? What is the Self/ Enlightenment/ Bliss/ The One/ All That Is/ God like? What does spiritual growth involve doing? It is interesting to meditate on the questions and what this whole ET issue is an external manifestation of. In the coming pivotal years for Earth, we have individual and collective decisions to make as to how we are going to manifest our own realities. We have nothing to fear but fear itself. As the saying goes, "First, say to yourself what you would be, then do what you have to do." We are limited only by our aspiration! It is important to look at the big picture. The galaxy is a lot like (and in fact is in a way) a living creature, with different parts serving different functions. And just as a growing being learns different things at different times, so do different planetary civilizations develop and represent different characteristics. Earth and the Zeta Reticulum have developed two polarized concepts of how an individual relates to society, and now having completed our tasks we are unifying and passing on the fruits to higher societies. In a similar manner, the Pleiadians and the Orion civilization developed two polarized concepts of evolution: The Pleiadians expressed growth through freedom and joy, while the Orions learned through the negative aspects of limitation and oppression. According to Bashar, Earth is part of a grand triad of planets ultimately developing "knowledge" in its various forms. In contrast, there is a completely different system of civilizations based around Arcturus that are developing the love concept in its various aspects; there will be more vast unifications between these different principles in the distant future, and still greater ones later on, all playing a role in the great Plan of Evolution in God's Creation. Above and Below, it is beautiful so! -- -|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|- | Walter D. "Cruiser1" Pullen | pullen@lynx.cs.washington.edu | -|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|- | "Who am I, What am I? As I am, I am not. But as we are, I AM. And to | - you my creation, My Perfect Love is your Perfect Freedom. And I will be - | with you forever and ever, until the End, and then forever more." - GOD | -|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|- Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!munnari.oz.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!uqcspe!cs.uq.oz.au!rhys From: rhys@cs.uq.oz.au (Rhys Weatherley) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: What do the _Greys_ *REALLY* want from us? Keywords: Greys Message-ID: <7486@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au> Date: 9 Apr 92 05:27:01 GMT References: <1992Apr9.033458.13626@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Sender: news@cs.uq.oz.au Reply-To: rhys@cs.uq.oz.au Lines: 48 In <1992Apr9.033458.13626@beaver.cs.washington.edu> pullen@cs.washington.edu (Walter D. Pullen) writes: Oh dear. The prophet is back with the next chapter about the Purple Shade of Greys. :-) Anyway ... >The Greys are here for basically one purpose: To create a new race of >beings. Entities of this race are known as Hybrids because they are a >cross between the Greys and Earth humans. The reason why these Hybrids >are being made is twofold: To save their species and to help ours. In >order to explain how the Hybrids will save us both, and explain the >rationale behind their actions, a general description of the Greys and >their features should be made: Obviously the Greys don't hold to the David Zindell school of thought. For those who don't know, Zindell is the SF author of "Neverness" (a good read), in which he said (more or less - I can't remember his exact words), and which I agree with: "A man's body is his own, but his DNA belongs to his species". i.e. you can sculpt your body in any fashion (massive plastic surgery, etc), but messing with your DNA (or the DNA of your descendants) needs the authorisation of the entire species. He also said that stealing someone else's DNA, or "skeling" as he called it, was one of the most abominable acts in his fictional universe. So, applying "Zindell's Law" to this situation, the creation of Hybrids by the Greys is an abominable act (they are stealing our DNA for their own purposes). So much for them being "nice guys". If it was necessary to guarantee the survival of our species (that's "ours", not "theirs"), I may feel better about this violation of Zindell's Law, but it is yet to be convincingly demonstrated that we are heading for total ruin and hence need saving. Creating some race (the Hybrids) that has the best of collective and individual thought is not a good enough excuse in my opinion. Cheers, Rhys. P.S. This post was hypothetical, based on the premise that Greys actually exist, and are carrying out the specified acts, and was not meant to imply that I either believe or disbelieve in their existence, or the nature of their activities. +=====================+==================================+ || Rhys Weatherley | The University of Queensland, || || rhys@cs.uq.oz.au | Australia. G'day!! || || "I'm a FAQ nut - what's your problem?" || +=====================+==================================+ Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!news.cs.indiana.edu!umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!vjmurphy From: vjmurphy@carina.unm.edu (Phred T. Platypus) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <8rrja8a@lynx.unm.edu> Date: 9 Apr 92 05:31:28 GMT References: <1992Apr4.014550.14207@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> <1992Apr7.135719.12355@tellab5.tellabs.com> Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque Lines: 18 In article <1992Apr7.135719.12355@tellab5.tellabs.com> jcj@tellabs.com (jcj) writes: > >The Lynn Russell clone has been neutralized! Check out the *real* >Lynn's haircolor now. > I love Lynn Russell, clone on un-clone! >Oh yeah! Check this out! I bought some dogfood and a bottle of seltzer >at the grocery store and the total (with tax) was... $11.11 !?!??!!!! At the grocery store at home, two six-packs of Dr. Pepper and the latest issue of Omni cost $6.66. Weird, huh? -- "You ask me if sex is one of the most _\_\ _/_/ Phred Platypus important things in life? Absolutely. _\_\ _/_/ Grammarian of Vengeance But the lack of it is even likelier _\_\_/_/ [ vjmurphy@carina.unm.edu ] to drive you nuts." -- Harlan Ellison _\_/ Vincent J. Murphy Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!darwin.sura.net!Sirius.dfn.de!zrz.tu-berlin.de!harti From: harti@mikro.ee.tu-berlin.de (Stefan Hartmann) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: What do the _Greys_ *REALLY* want from us? Keywords: Greys Message-ID: Date: 9 Apr 92 13:17:30 GMT References: <1992Apr9.033458.13626@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Sender: news@mailgzrz.tu-berlin.de (News Manager) Distribution: tub Organization: ZRZ/TU-Berlin Lines: 10 Nntp-Posting-Host: mikro.ee.tu-berlin.de Hi, is this a GREY alien, the GIF-picture at phoenix.oulu.fi (130.231.240.17) in /pub/ufo_and_space_pics alien.gif ???? I heard it came from the 1947 UFO-crash at Roswell New Mexico (USA). Was this a Grey who crashed over there or was this someone from the Plaiads ? More infos are welcome ! Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!decwrl!access.usask.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!bison!draco!orion!stimpsn From: stimpsn@bbs.orion.bison.mb.ca (Gary Stimpson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: UFO Magazine. Message-ID: Date: 9 Apr 92 13:58:46 GMT Sender: bbs@orion.bison.mb.ca (BBS Account) Organization: The Orion Unix System [A/UX 2.0.1], Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Lines: 10 Can I get the address for UFO Magazine? I had it awhile back, but it's been misplaced somewhere. Also, can someone type out the table of contents for a recent UFO Magazine? I want to see what types of articles are in it. Thanks, Gary -- stimpsn@bbs.orion.bison.mb.ca (Gary Stimpson) The Orion Unix System [A/UX 2.0.1], Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Path: ns-mx!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!darkstar!shawnee!berggren From: berggren@shawnee.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Harry Berggren) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Beware The Pleiedians! Keywords: Aliens, Pleiedians, Graffiti Message-ID: <32493@darkstar.ucsc.edu> Date: 10 Apr 92 02:18:13 GMT Sender: usenet@darkstar.ucsc.edu Organization: I'm too confused to get ORGANIZED Lines: 25 The other day, while engaged in peaceful meditation in one of the public johns on campus here (UCSC), I noticed on the wall, a snippet of graffiti: "Beware the Pleiedians!" it said. It struck me as being quite humorous, and yet somewhat surreal too. The bathroom walls are, of course, known for hosting the very best in humorous anecdotes, but somehow, somehow, I found myself thinking "How strange!" Enough people are now becoming aware of the alien presence among us that the phenomenon has arrived on the bathroom wall. I had this wierd feeling that my life was somehow entering into some kind of Hollywood movie plot, that would only get thicker and more adventurous as the days and months passed. What I want to know is, where are the Sirians? Or are we them? Joyfull exploration to you all. /\ / \ / \ / __ \ /,_/_*`)~\ / \ -Harry ------------ Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!munnari.oz.au!metro!seagoon.newcastle.edu.au!cc.newcastle.edu.au!ccasm From: ccasm@cc.newcastle.edu.au Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Me Message-ID: <1992Apr10.140520.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> Date: 10 Apr 92 04:05:20 GMT References: <=hkjd1g.noring@netcom.com> <4jkj2yn.anson@netcom.com> <92094.112608IO00198@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> Sender: news@seagoon.newcastle.edu.au Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA Lines: 12 In article <92094.112608IO00198@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>, >IO00198@MAINE.MAINE.EDU writes: > The number is 42, but it's not God, it's the answer to the meaning of the > universe. But what the hell's the question ?!!? For all those who haven't seen Douglas Adams' HITCHIKERS GUIDE TO THE UNIVERSE trilogy: after millions of years of calculation by the most powerful computer the answer was indeed 42. The question had been forgotten by then, but was assumed to be "the meaning of life". To find out the question they travelled back in time to observe it being written in the dust by primitive man: 6 x 8 = ? Path: ns-mx!uunet!munnari.oz.au!metro!seagoon.newcastle.edu.au!cc.newcastle.edu.au!ccasm From: ccasm@cc.newcastle.edu.au Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: The Pleiades Needs Telescopes! (Re: The Pleiadians: Awakening) Message-ID: <1992Apr10.134752.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> Date: 10 Apr 92 03:47:52 GMT References: <56549@cup.portal.com> <1992Mar30.162009.4190@watdragon.waterloo.edu> Sender: news@seagoon.newcastle.edu.au Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA Lines: 28 Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:10029 alt.alien.visitors:5236 sci.skeptic:22565 In article <1992Mar30.162009.4190@watdragon.waterloo.edu>, jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) writes: > In article <56549@cup.portal.com> Don_-_Showen@cup.portal.com writes: >> > Gibberish deleted > > The star system of the Pleiades has seven stars, six of which we >>believe, you may see from the naked eye. > > Hee hee. Millions of years of residence, and the only members of > that group of stars they know about are the ones *we* can see with the naked > eye from Earth. Pretty poor astronomers, these Pleiadians. One could be > excused for wondering whether they aren't just the delusion of a terran > ignorant of astronomy... > > Clearly, there's a market in the Pleiades for glasses and telescopes. > > James Nicoll > > Is this stuff about another universe new to the Pleiadian mythos since the > previous appearance? I seem to recall people pointing out the Pleiadians > predate the Pleiades they claim to come from... Correct. Down here in Oz even my young son can see more than seven stars in the Pleiades group with his naked eye,( like about 15 stars) although I need a telescope to see them. guess my eyes arn't any better than a Pleiadians. ^ ^ BIG AL. | \_/ Path: ns-mx!uunet!psgrain!percy!nosun!techbook!nancyp From: nancyp@techbook.com (Nancy Parsons) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again... Message-ID: <1992Apr10.053001.28484@techbook.com> Date: 10 Apr 92 05:30:01 GMT References: <1992Apr1.020902.587@zip.eecs.umich.edu> <-zlj3qq.raj@netcom.com> <1992Apr7.214758.6461@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> Organization: TECHbooks of Beaverton Oregon - Public Access Unix Lines: 84 press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes: >In article <-zlj3qq.raj@netcom.com>, raj@netcom.com (Roger Lee) writes: >> In <1992Apr4.004715.17931@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> bur@ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov (Mike Bur) writes: >> >> >In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >> >>In article <1992Apr2.015814.14003@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> bur@ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov (Mike Bur) writes: >> >>>In article <1992Apr1.020902.587@zip.eecs.umich.edu> fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields) writes: >> >>>>In article <1992Mar31.211150.13627@cs.rose-hulman.edu> waldbyjf@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Julian F Waldby) writes: >> >>>>>In article <1992Mar28.192924.17253@acsu.buffalo.edu> >> >>>>>majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) writes: >> >>>>>> sramming@athena.mit.edu (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes: >> >>>>>> >In article <1992Mar27.033812.25302@acsu.buffalo.edu> >> >>>>>majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) writes: B >> >>>>>> >>klm@gozer.mv.com (Kevin L. McBride) writes: >> >>>>>> >>>kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >> >>>>>> >>>> In article <1992Mar25.012450.7508@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> >> >>>>>press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes: >> >>>>>> >>>> >In article <1992Mar20.031338.3813@nntp.uoregon.edu>, >> >>>>>rtaylor@cie.uoregon.edu (Russ Taylor) writes: >> >>>>>> >>>> >> In article kibo@world.std.com (James >> >>>>>'Kibo' Parry) writes: >> >>>>>> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed] >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS. >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper. >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH. I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD STOP IT. >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*. >> >>>>>> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but only after you >> >>>>>> >>>> >> added your ten cents? A thousand-degree flame on you! >> >>>>>> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!) >> >>>>>> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth? >> >>>>>> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich >> >>>>>> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width. >> >>>>>> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it? >> >>>>>> >>>> >because he made a paste of it >> >>>>>> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it. >> >>>>>> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor >> >>>>>> >>>> >he never was a sailor >> >>>>>> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer. >> >>>>>> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE? PLEASE EXERCISE >> >>>>>> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT. >> >>>>>> >>>Okay. B >> >>>>>> >> Come on guys, I think he means it. Don't follow up to this. >> >>>>>> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious. >> >>>>>> >Go ahead and follow up. >> >>>>>> >Or kill me. >> >>>>>> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess. >> >>>>>Shhhh! >> >>>>>> >sramming@athena.mit.edu >> >>>>>> >M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming 305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge MA 02139 >> >>>>>> >( the nonibo -ibo ) (617) 225-9887 [home] (617) 253-7942 [office] >> >>>>>> No! Don't follow up to this! Whatever you do, _don't_ press >> >>>>>> that "f" button! It's a sin! It's a sin! This is against the gods >> >>>>>> of bandwidth and all that is wholly! See what you do! You waste and >> >>>>>> waste and waste until the unthinkable happens! Nay, until the >> >>>>>> _unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the >> >>>>>> world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up! My >> >>>>>> _GOD_! How can you even think it! How can you dream it and still >> >>>>>> remain sane?!?!? How can it be?!?!?!?! Gah!!!! >> >>>>>> majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu | The meek shall inherit the earth, >> >>>>>> v061regm@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu | and the wise keep moving on... >> >>>>>> Rev. M @P.O. Box 156 O |----------------------------------------- >> >>>>>> Amherst, NY 14226 + |Ask me about the Secret Society! Shhhh! >> >>>>>What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion? I >> >>>>>missed the earlier parts. >> >>>There. No more wasted "Bandwidth" >> >>Huh? >> >Duh! >> NOT! >Knot Groc >NOW STOP IT??!!**%%0-0 > > > ~ AARRGH! I can't help myself - don't touch that "f" key - OK - but don't touch that "s" key ... -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Nancy Parsons | "You can't fire me - slaves must be sold! | |------------------------------------------------------------------------| | nancyp@techbook.COM ...!{tektronix!nosun,uunet}techbook!nancyp | Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!decwrl!csus.edu!netcomsv!satyr!apple!portal!cup.portal.com!Don_-_Showen From: Don_-_Showen@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Conversation with the Plieadians 3 Message-ID: <57200@cup.portal.com> Date: 10 Apr 92 08:05:26 GMT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 314 Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:10032 alt.alien.visitors:5238 sci.skeptic:22579 A Conversation With The Pleiadians The following is an except from a class session. The earth sphere, Terra, is in a state of great change. Historically, from a linear perspective, you have been told that you have been on your planet for X number of years. Your scientists think that you have been civilized for a short amount of time and evolved from ape to man. That is completely incorrect. Highly formed Adamic man has been on your planet for eons. Your planet was seeded by extraterrestrials. It was an experiment initiated by the one we call First Cause whom you may refer to as God, Prime Creator, All That Is, whichever you are comfortable with. First Cause is the energy essence of creativity. First Cause is in all things. Consciousness is within all things. First Cause's primary journey now is to gather information and increase the potential of being. On a global scale, humanities are attempting to understand that your world is a direct result of your thoughts. Your main challenge at this time [is] to learn how to handle thought manifestation and the manipulation of matter and existence. Once [it] is implanted within you that this is a core, basic idea, a universal law of being, you will be liberating yourselves from a restricted existence that has been boxing you in all these millions of years. There have been those on your planet who have individually, or within small groupings, taken this information and utilized it and freed themselves from the tethers of three dimensional experience. But what is occurring on your planet and why all are restless is that the movement now is towards a universal knowing and understanding. As each of you learn to expand your own consciousness and allow information and experiences to enter into your reality, as you grow telepathically, you effect those around you, in your family, in your school systems, in your neighborhoods and then, of course, within your world. What will eventually happen is what you call critical mass, when a certain number of individuals achieve a certain state of knowing, others will instantly comprehend. The times that lie ahead in the next ten to fifteen years are going to be quite interesting. You are going to see your reality turn upside down. You are going to see chaos, confusion. You are going to see a crack in the cultural paradigm structure that has been the reality of your world up until this time. Historically speaking, your world has been defined most explicitly in the last five hundred to six hundred of your years by scientists and by learned intellectuals and you have not questioned this. The world seems solid. You seem solid. You all seem to live in the same world at the same time. Not so. It is not so at all. You are moving into the fourth dimension of experience. The third dimensional experience is composed of thinking. The fourth dimensional experience is more involved with perceiving, utilizing the entire being. You have been defined so precisely that you do not question who you are. You have accepted a thousand years of definition from those you consider authorities because they happen to speak louder or publish books or gather degrees. That is nonsense. Always question what you hear, including what we are telling you. Become your OWN authority. This is what Terra is moving towards each one discovering their own integrity, their own completeness of being, their own responsibility to themselves and to the world that they participate in. You will discover how to become this authority by trusting yourselves and by questioning what you are told, particularly from your governments, school systems, television and newspapers. Read between the lines. It would do you a great amount of good. QUESTION: Some of us are getting to the point where we are no longer willing to listen to the government. We want to know how we can bring about environmental changes. PLEIADIANS: The changes that are most important for everyone to make are the changes that are within yourselves. We speak over and over again that you are your primary tool to be working with. If you are concerned with the environment and what is occurring, take care of whatever you have, your amount of land. Wherever you are involved, use your thoughts to create a harmony with Mother Nature. What you must understand is a certain amount of disruption is necessary in order for this shift of consciousness to occur. It seems as if your planet is falling apart environmentally. It is, from our perspective, a necessary path in order to move humanities through their growth. If all were perfect on your planet, in other words, if the environment was in ideal condition, it would not be ripe for the shift in consciousness that will occur. A certain amount of disruption or chaos is necessary to create new order. Your earth is a sentient being. It is alive. It is conscious. Your greatest step is to align yourself in communication and ask Mother Earth to give you what you need and commit yourself to giving Mother Earth what she needs. If you feel the need to be involved with others to clean a stream or a lake, that is fine. But it is not for you to go out and wave flags at others. The work that you do is work within your minds. You are mental beings, far more than that, you are spiritual beings. You are thought manifestors. You can do much more with your thoughts than you can by racing around from one committee to another pounding the hammers and the nails. When you use the mind in meditation to bring light to Mother Earth, you act as a bridge from the cosmos and from First Cause to earth and light is carried in. We say this to allow you to rest easier about your environment. There are extraterrestrial energies that have technologies that could clean your environment up very quickly, within a few days or weeks. If, however, this was done, what do you think would occur? Those who have been destroying the planet would say "No problem we can keep doing what we are doing, the world is fine." Then you will be back in the same boat. Terra is working towards becoming the jewel within your sector of the universe that it was originally designed to be. The darkness is being thrown off. Terra is indeed moving towards great enlightenment. There is a state of consciousness that needs to be understood. You are all connected. You are all one. You cannot be here without your earth sphere. Can you understand that? Can you understand that the others need to learn this lesson? It will be learned. The earth will heal itself. There will be changes, earth changes. You had an experience of an earth change in your past summer when you had the big fires throughout your United States. That is a form of earth change. Your recent experience with the forces of winds, the tornadoes, are forms of changes. As you see these things occurring, rejoice because lives and consciousness are effected. Each time something like this occurs, a new person steps into a state of realization. It is Mother Earth cleansing and healing herself. Do not worry, your world is not being destroyed. There is great assistance hovering around your planet. Within physical realms and non-physical realms there are multitudes of extraterrestrial beings throughout the solar system here to assist in whatever needs to be done. Because you are a freewill universe, we cannot interfere. We can assist . As you call for assistance we will be giving it for those who wish to consciously evolve themselves into a more dynamic, fulfilling experience. Questions? QUESTION: I have a question concerning the painful things like alcoholism and abuse that effect many children and many lives and carry over into adulthood and effect relationships. I come from an alcoholic family and I realize that I've chosen that. But the pain and torment from that has created some very confusing choices that I've made that were detrimental to my life. I'm trying to rid myself of that pain, but it's hard for me to put myself in situations that are good for me instead of being attracted to something that is familiar. PLEIADIANS: All can learn from this story that is being shared, the story about pain and confusion and anger and powerlessness and recognizing that it is a choice of sorts. First of all, understand that when you are in a state of confusion and you recognize that you are in that state, congratulate yourselves. You are scrambling up old behavior patterns and beliefs and you are disturbing old orders and ways of being so that you can realign them. Do not feel you are going nowhere when you are in a state of chaos and confusion. It is a high state of being as long as you do not perpetually stay there. You prevent yourself from perpetually staying there by honoring, surrendering and acknowledging that you are working on something. Self-love and trust is essential for personal growth. When one creates a situation that seems to be less than ideal, when one has parents who are not "Father Knows Best" types, it seems as if one perhaps was gypped. But then, if one believes one creates one's own reality and they choose their parents then you can get into a bit of a muddle [about] why you choose a situation that is less than ideal. One must ask what is it serving for me? In what way am I creating an opportunity for my own growth? What are the challenges of the parents? What is in this for me? As you judge any situation you keep yourself there. Relinquishing the judgment of right or wrong allows one to move through the experience and have compassion for one's own self. Often you place yourselves in situations of difficulty so that you can help others that are in greater difficulty. If you have a silver spoon life, often it is more difficult for you to relate to the other members of humanity. When you have come from an area of great challenge and less than ideal situations and you are able to see that you are a result of thought manifestation, it is quite simple through great intent and desire to change whatever has been occurring around you. Because you have finished with the lesson, you see now that you needed to experience those parents and that they needed to learn about their addictive behavior that keeps them sequestered from life. It is a lesson for you as well as for the world. Your families are your mirrors. You are all mirrors for one another. Learn to accept this and surrender to the idea that it is your play you are in. You are the primary actor, the primary writer and director. Allow yourselves to step outside of the scenario that you are enacting and observe it and see what it is doing for you and then rewrite it. Allow yourself not to annihilate that experience but to build on it, add on to it. You get yourselves in big trouble when you try to erase chunks of your lives. Integrate who you are and make yourselves whole by adding new information, experience and trusting that you are moving towards great opportunities of love, self-love and growth, and that ideally you are working towards service. Service is the ultimate healing of the self. When one is involved in service, it seems as if one is assisting others. When one is involved in service, one is involved with the ultimate healing of one's own soul. One is liberated, connected with the oneness of being. In order to move into service, you need to have a file full of experience so that you can relate and carry out what is necessary for you to [serve]. Any of you that are finding yourselves in situations of pain, ask yourselves do you believe life is painful? How much pain is necessary? Is it possible to live a life without pain? Remember that you selected your parents because it was in that nest that you could do your greatest growing and learning. You did not take last choice, for there are no last choices. You are born in the most ideal situation that there is. Your parents are your guardians in the physical world. They structure your belief system and they structure your thoughts. Life does not have to be painful. Examine your basic feelings and beliefs. If you are finding some of them are less than ideal, lay them to rest, discard them as you would go through your closet and pick out the clothes that no longer fit. It is what you all could be doing now with your thoughts. Those that no longer fit and aren't productive or enhance the world as you need to experience it, discard them. In your mind's eye create a mental visualization in meditation where you have a big box. Inside of this box you place all of the things that you do not need any longer, all of the old behavior patterns and teachings. Mentally forgive your parents for their own ignorance. Forgive them for what they did not know to teach you. Forgive yourself for judging them for what you think they did not do for you. You will see that you will move forward and you will repattern and effect many others for your own personal growth. Remember again, you are your primary tool. You are the lump of clay that you are designing and working with. Keep that in mind. You are working with yourself and not others. Others are a by-product. Work with the self and you will change the world. Love yourself and you will change the world. Ask that you be shown the way. Call for guidance. Call for assistance. Allow yourself to surrender to the highest good that your self can manifest. And then release and forgive. QUESTION: I feel that my whole being is getting ready to change, and there is a big fear there of not knowing. I want to know. I am praying for guidance. And the answer that I get now is "wait," and "it's not time" and "patience." Instead of the patience building, I'm reaching a point of impatience. PLEIADIANS: That is because you are not trusting yourself. You are afraid of what is Iying ahead of you. First of all, understand that each of you live in your own world. You agree on a mass level that there is one world, but you each form your own world of experience. If you choose that world to be safe, it will indeed be safe. Within that safety, fearful elements may brush up against you. But, if you believe, that you are guided and you are blessed, and you intend beyond all others that you have a safe world that is joyful, then indeed it shall be. We are not talking about the world that anyone else lives in but you. When you learn to trust and to commit yourself to a world of safety and beauty, then there is a certain patience that comes as you allow that world to unfold in front of you. It is up to you to be patient and love who you are and trust that the dark journeys that your soul has chosen to take were all a part of experience which was needed so that you would have a greater understanding of where others choose to go. You, yourself, can carry a light now, and lead them out. But first you must realize what it is that you are and why you have gone there. You would not understand if you did not have first hand experience. Do not judge what you do and where you have been. Accept your power. Accept who you are. Accept that you carry light for yourselves, and then surrender to your role and be patient and allow it to unfold. Time will accelerate quickly enough for you. Do not rush it ahead. You have many years of work and play ahead, all of you. It is what you are about. You are gathering now. You are gathering your knowledge, your commitment. You are forming your roles of leadership. There will be many pillars that will be needed in the new society. Many who will be needed to stand strong and to believe in themselves. We ask that you accept this responsibility, all of you. QUESTION: I feel that when one is involved in a search for self that one is quite vulnerable, especially in the sleep state. I've experienced what I felt was a very negative intrusion during this sleep state. Is that possible? PLEIADIANS: Your opening statement to us was, "I believe" or "I feel one is vulnerable." That is your essence. That is what you are putting power behind. That is what you are calling to manifest. A demonstration in your belief in vulnerability. So, of course, you would experience anything that would demonstrate that you can indeed be vulnerable to unexpected intrusions. To takeovers. To whatever goes along with being vulnerable. It is not in your greatest opportunity for growth to believe in your vulnerability or that you can be victimized. You will create for yourself demonstrations. It is more ideal to utilize the thought manifestation to form the world that says "I believe I am safe. I believe I am guided. I believe I am blessed. I believe that I am divinely taught and instructed within my dream state." Can you see the difference? QUESTION: In choice of words. PLEIADIANS: In choice of belief. You can choose those words and believe still that you are vulnerable and try to convince yourself that you are not vulnerable. You must search into your life to see why you select the idea that you are vulnerable. Whenever one thinks one is vulnerable, one can say, "but this happened to me to demonstrate that I am indeed vulnerable." We are saying thought comes first and experience is always secondary. It is never the other way around. It is never that you have the experience and then you base the thought around it. Always your experience is a direct reflection of what you are thinking. This is why we are saying monitor the thoughts, get to know the self. Speak with others in a loving way. Speak out. "I believe" and "I feel." When you speak in this fashion, you are coming to the core of who you are. And when you come to this area you can see how you form your experience by what you feel and what you think. If you are finding areas that seem less than ideal, then attempt to change. If you cannot change immediately then, for a few minutes each day you institute the new feeling by adapting the idea that for five minutes you will feel safe and guided. Then go back to feeling vulnerable the rest of the time. If you do this a few times every day, you will see that your thoughts make you feel one way or another. QUESTION: Everything that you have said tonight seems to me to be the basis of metaphysical teaching, the way I understand it. PLEIADIANS: It is so. What we are saying to you, to your planet, is that the information has been here for eons. It has been covered up and kept from you, but it is basic free information. We are merely here to remind you, prod you forward and to give you a direct experience through contact to smooth out any areas where you may have questions and allow you to propel forward. And, for our part, to encourage you, and to send you love, so that you can know that you are love. You are greatly regarded, and your planet is a beautiful place of being. Be proud of who you are. We are coming here out of choice. We are coming here because we cherish you. You are multi-dimensional beings and you peek into many realities, all of which are valid, and all of which are real. Awaken yourselves. It has been our pleasure to speak with you, we send you our blessings. Call on us when you need assistance. Create your own avenues of expression, for you truly are on the journey of greatness. THE SOURCE: The Pleiadians are a collective of extraterrestrials from the star system the Pleiades. The Pleiadian culture is ancient and was "seeded" from another universe of love long before Earth was created. They have formed a tremendous society which operates with love, with ideas and ideals that we are yet unfamiliar with. The Pleiadians call themselves our ancient family because many of us came here from the Pleiades to participate in the new experiment of Earth. The Pleiadians are now here as ambassadors from another universe to help Earth through her difficult transition from the third dimension to the fourth dimension and to assist each of us in our personal endeavors of awakening, remembering and knowing. THE CHANNEL: Barbara J. Marciniak has been a student of Metaphysics for many years. She gives credit to the Seth material channeled by Jane Roberts for her insight into the necessity for conscious, intentional creation of personal experience. Barbara travels extensively. In Athens, Greece in May of 1988, she began channeling The Pleiadians after she and a group of friends experienced a spiritual awakening in the Great Pyramid at Giza. Barbara currently lives in Raleigh, North Carolina where she gives class sessions and workshops with The Pleiadians. You may contact Barbara at Bold Connections Unlimited P. O. Box 6521 Raleigh, NC 27628 S U B S C R I B E T O CONNECTING LINK 1 Year Subscription (6 issues) is just $20 U.S. (12 issues) $35 Canada $32* (air) 12 issues $59* Overseas $44* (air) 12 issues $83* To order your subscription use order form in center of magazine Credit card orders only call (616) 891-0410 * U.S. Currency Connecting Link Magazine 9392 Whitneyville Rd. Alto, MI. 49302-9694 Copyrighted by Barbara Marciniak Reprinted from Connecting Link Magazine with permission. Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!portent!l228-a10 From: l228-a10@portent (l228-a10) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Near Washington NJ Message-ID: Date: 10 Apr 92 18:29:26 GMT Distribution: usa Organization: University of CA, Berkeley Lines: 15 NNTP-Posting-Host: portent.berkeley.edu I'm posting to this group for the first time, and I'm not sure if this is the correct forum for this question. Please correct me if I am in the wrong place. Has anyone had any sort of unusual encounters anywhere near Washington, NJ, specifically on Montana Mountain? I have seen a few unusual sights which I cannot explain. I don't want to elaborate at this time, so as not to color anyone's responses, but in general what I saw was light I could not explain and a strange absence of sound which I could not explain. If anyone is interested I will elaborate more at a later time, so you all can try to prove it was something easily explainable. If you are serious and saw something there, please let me know at l228-a10@info.ucb.edu. or in this newsgroup. Thanks Heather Schwabe Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!darwin.sura.net!convex!egsner!adaptex!sdf!hideo From: hideo@sdf.lonestar.org (David Carter) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: It seems kinda simple to me. Message-ID: <1992Apr10.061917.135@sdf.lonestar.org> Date: 10 Apr 92 06:19:17 GMT References: <1992Apr5.204639.11982@anasaz> <59njxv+.anson@netcom.com> Organization: sdf Public Access UNIX, Dallas--unrestricted free shell access Lines: 7 Don't you mean Betty & Barney Rubble? just asking. David Carter : URANUS: not truly a place aka Hideo Gump : where the Sun don't shine, Dallas, Texas USA : but certainly a place where hideo@sdf.lonestar.org : the Sun shines dimly! Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lambda.msfc.nasa.gov!destroyer!terminator!briansp From: briansp@css.itd.umich.edu (Brian Spolarich) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <1992Apr10.194826.26510@terminator.cc.umich.edu> Date: 10 Apr 92 19:48:26 GMT References: Sender: usenet@terminator.cc.umich.edu (usenet news) Organization: University of Michigan, ITD Consulting and Support Services Lines: 20 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5241 alt.conspiracy:13978 talk.religion.newage:10035 alt.paranormal:4771 In article garys@bluemoon.rn.com (Gary Stollman) writes: >WELL, it has been a strange three months here in LA...God is continuing to >wipe out the demons that have tried to destroy my family, and I have great >hope for my future now...It looks like we just might win!! But the impact >on my psyche is irreversible, I'm afraid...I just don't know what these >aliens will come up with next...They have the phones tapped to the gills, >and the CIA has most of the nodes (bbses) I call bugged and also the >people on GEnie that are on the boards I frequent, but me thinks they >might be getting tired somewhat...They know now that I didn't pull that >toy gun on David Horowitz for nothing...But I don't think they know >exactly WHY I did it...They will find out soon enough, I think... > > Gary > > This is from > garys@bluemoon.rn.com >who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet Are we a little paranoid? Time for some Prozac, I think. Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!press2 From: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <1992Apr11.022254.25807@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> Date: 11 Apr 92 02:22:54 GMT References: <1992Apr7.135719.12355@tellab5.tellabs.com> Organization: AT&T Lines: 20 In article <1992Apr7.135719.12355@tellab5.tellabs.com>, jcj@tellabs.com (jcj) writes: > In article <1992Apr4.014550.14207@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes: > >We are all pulling for ya buddy! keep up the good work, and > >don't let the aliens steal your sanity. > >I still watch CNN, but haven't seen anything weird or unusual > >except they keep featuring Bill Clinton. Keep us posted! > > The Lynn Russell clone has been neutralized! Check out the *real* > Lynn's haircolor now. On my set it goes from a blurred/reddish blue to yellow! > > Oh yeah! Check this out! I bought some dogfood and a bottle of seltzer > at the grocery store and the total (with tax) was... $11.11 !?!??!!!! > -- Better lay low. Them are preparing you for the clone switch! Just to be sure, try buying something like a TV set and see if they charge you $11.11 . Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!press2 From: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again... Message-ID: <1992Apr11.024555.26284@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> Date: 11 Apr 92 02:45:55 GMT References: <1992Apr1.020902.587@zip.eecs.umich.edu> <-zlj3qq.raj@netcom.com> <1992Apr10.053001.28484@techbook.com> Organization: AT&T Lines: 87 In article <1992Apr10.053001.28484@techbook.com>, nancyp@techbook.com (Nancy Parsons) writes: > press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes: > > >In article <-zlj3qq.raj@netcom.com>, raj@netcom.com (Roger Lee) writes: > >> In <1992Apr4.004715.17931@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> bur@ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov (Mike Bur) writes: > >> > >> >In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: > >> >>In article <1992Apr2.015814.14003@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> bur@ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov (Mike Bur) writes: > >> >>>In article <1992Apr1.020902.587@zip.eecs.umich.edu> fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields) writes: > >> >>>>In article <1992Mar31.211150.13627@cs.rose-hulman.edu> waldbyjf@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Julian F Waldby) writes: > >> >>>>>In article <1992Mar28.192924.17253@acsu.buffalo.edu> > >> >>>>>majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) writes: > >> >>>>>> sramming@athena.mit.edu (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes: > >> >>>>>> >In article <1992Mar27.033812.25302@acsu.buffalo.edu> > >> >>>>>majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) writes: > B > >> >>>>>> >>klm@gozer.mv.com (Kevin L. McBride) writes: > >> >>>>>> >>>kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: > >> >>>>>> >>>> In article <1992Mar25.012450.7508@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> > >> >>>>>press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes: > >> >>>>>> >>>> >In article <1992Mar20.031338.3813@nntp.uoregon.edu>, > >> >>>>>rtaylor@cie.uoregon.edu (Russ Taylor) writes: > >> >>>>>> >>>> >> In article kibo@world.std.com (James > >> >>>>>'Kibo' Parry) writes: > >> >>>>>> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed] > >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS. > >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper. > >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH. I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD STOP IT. > >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*. > >> >>>>>> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but only after you > >> >>>>>> >>>> >> added your ten cents? A thousand-degree flame on you! > >> >>>>>> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!) > >> >>>>>> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth? > >> >>>>>> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich > >> >>>>>> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width. > >> >>>>>> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it? > >> >>>>>> >>>> >because he made a paste of it > >> >>>>>> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it. > >> >>>>>> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor > >> >>>>>> >>>> >he never was a sailor > >> >>>>>> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer. > >> >>>>>> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE? PLEASE EXERCISE > >> >>>>>> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT. > >> >>>>>> >>>Okay. > B > >> >>>>>> >> Come on guys, I think he means it. Don't follow up to this. > >> >>>>>> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious. > >> >>>>>> >Go ahead and follow up. > >> >>>>>> >Or kill me. > >> >>>>>> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess. > >> >>>>>Shhhh! > >> >>>>>> >sramming@athena.mit.edu > >> >>>>>> >M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming 305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge MA 02139 > >> >>>>>> >( the nonibo -ibo ) (617) 225-9887 [home] (617) 253-7942 [office] > >> >>>>>> No! Don't follow up to this! Whatever you do, _don't_ press > >> >>>>>> that "f" button! It's a sin! It's a sin! This is against the gods > >> >>>>>> of bandwidth and all that is wholly! See what you do! You waste and > >> >>>>>> waste and waste until the unthinkable happens! Nay, until the > >> >>>>>> _unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the > >> >>>>>> world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up! My > >> >>>>>> _GOD_! How can you even think it! How can you dream it and still > >> >>>>>> remain sane?!?!? How can it be?!?!?!?! Gah!!!! > >> >>>>>> majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu | The meek shall inherit the earth, > >> >>>>>> v061regm@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu | and the wise keep moving on... > >> >>>>>> Rev. M @P.O. Box 156 O |----------------------------------------- > >> >>>>>> Amherst, NY 14226 + |Ask me about the Secret Society! Shhhh! > >> >>>>>What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion? I > >> >>>>>missed the earlier parts. > >> >>>There. No more wasted "Bandwidth" > >> >>Huh? > >> >Duh! > >> NOT! > >Knot Groc > >NOW STOP IT??!!**%%0-0 > > > > > ~ > AARRGH! I can't help myself - don't touch that "f" key - OK - but > don't touch that "s" key ... Oh God, now you did it!! Homer's Horseradish roared--- > > > -- > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > | Nancy Parsons | "You can't fire me - slaves must be sold! | > |------------------------------------------------------------------------| > | nancyp@techbook.COM ...!{tektronix!nosun,uunet}techbook!nancyp | Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!news.nd.edu!mentor.cc.purdue.edu!f3w From: f3w@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Mark Gellis) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Comments and Questions Message-ID: <44916@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> Date: 11 Apr 92 19:11:18 GMT Organization: Purdue University Computing Center Lines: 36 I've been reading this newsgroup for a few days now, having been intrigued by my girlfriend's claim to have seen a UFO some years ago, and I have a few remarks and questions. First, how reliable do all these stories of alien abductions seem? Yes, they remember the stuff under hypnosis, etc., but does this really prove anything beyond the fact that they believe they were abducted? Second, what's the business with the cattle mutilations. Are these for real? Cows with their eyes surgically removed with something people think is a laser? Now, I confess to having a few strange interests of my own, but what possible motivation could aliens have for stealing the eyeballs out of cows!? I could see it happening once or twice, if it was a bio- logical expedition of some kind, but hundreds of times? It has occurred to me that these sinister attacks, but the low number of them (the whole planet does not seem to have been overwhelmed by the little green guys, after all) might be explained in one way that I have not seen proposed before: 1) The aliens are real, and know about us, but MOST of them do not wish to disturb us. After all, there is probably nothing on Earth they cannot get somewhere else, but the information they get from observing another intelligent species is probably priceless to them. 2) The UFOs seen high in the sky are probes. They won't bother us. 3) The abductions and cattle mutilations are the work of alien CRIMINALS, aliens who do not care what they do to a younger civilization or the planet it lives on. On Earth, we call such beings "poachers." They're here for cheap thrills and to steal, for an exclusive set of clients, things they can't get legally (recordings of the memories of abducted humans, etc.) Any thoughts? Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!rutgers!cmcl2!sbcs.sunysb.edu!csws17.ic.sunysb.edu!dtiberio From: dtiberio@csws17.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <1992Apr11.031429.20792@sbcs.sunysb.edu> Date: 11 Apr 92 03:14:29 GMT Sender: usenet@sbcs.sunysb.edu (Usenet poster) Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook Lines: 13 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5245 alt.conspiracy:13990 talk.religion.newage:10039 alt.paranormal:4775 Nntp-Posting-Host: csws17.ic.sunysb.edu I have a friend who lives in my dorm who has a sister who has a clone. The clone acts almost like you would expect it to, except that sometimes it behaves sluggishly. I keep telling her to get rid of the clone and get an Amiga instead. -- // David Tiberio SUNY Stony Brook 2-3662 AMIGA DDD-MEN // Not the llama! Come here Earl; I want to tell you something... \X/ Liverpool, New York flames to suggestions@cbmvax.commodore.com Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!mips!darwin.sura.net!udel!rochester!cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!dh4j+ From: dh4j+@andrew.cmu.edu (David O Hunt) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Conversation with the Plieadians 3 Message-ID: Date: 12 Apr 92 04:45:51 GMT References: <57200@cup.portal.com> Organization: Masters student, Mechanical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Lines: 19 Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:10040 sci.skeptic:22605 alt.alien.visitors:5246 In-Reply-To: <57200@cup.portal.com> BWWAAAAAA-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Again, Don, thanks for the laughs! The semester-end crunch is here and I really appreciate the comic relief! David Hunt - Graduate Slave | My mind is my own. | Towards both a Mechanical Engineering | So are my ideas & opinions. | Palestinian and Carnegie Mellon University | <<>> | Jewish homeland! ============================================================================ Email: dh4j@andrew.cmu.edu I think, therefore I am paid. (S. Harris) "You should be furious that polluters are threatening your great-great- grand children's lives!"---Iroquois chief speaking about the environment. Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!decuac!pa.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!cpdw.enet.dec.com!rosch From: rosch@cpdw.enet.dec.com (Ray Rosch) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Conversation with the Plieadians 3 Message-ID: <35144@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> Date: 13 Apr 92 01:42:07 GMT Sender: news@nntpd.lkg.dec.com Followup-To: talk.religion.newage Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 27 Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:10047 alt.alien.visitors:5247 sci.skeptic:22609 In article <57200@cup.portal.com>, Don_-_Showen@cup.portal.com writes... >A Conversation With The Pleiadians > >The following is an except from a class session. > > The earth sphere, Terra, is in a state of great change. Historically, . . deleted . > S U B S C R I B E T O CONNECTING LINK 1 Year Subscription (6 issues) >is just $20 U.S. (12 issues) $35 Canada $32* (air) 12 issues $59* Overseas >$44* (air) 12 issues $83* To order your subscription use order form in center >of magazine Credit card orders only call (616) 891-0410 * U.S. Currency >Connecting Link Magazine 9392 Whitneyville Rd. Alto, MI. 49302-9694 > >Copyrighted by Barbara Marciniak Reprinted from Connecting Link Magazine >with permission. Golly! Not only is this taking up bandwidth on a voluntary association's network but they also vertize for subscriptions - ie: profit. How do you feel about this non-profit, voluntary network being used to solicit $'s? **** Disclaimer: Opinions expressed do not in any way reflect those of my employer **** Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!yale.edu!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!eniac.seas.upenn.edu!vvallopp From: vvallopp@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Vinod V Valloppillil) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: UFO ftp sites Keywords: ftp Message-ID: <73795@netnews.upenn.edu> Date: 13 Apr 92 01:04:43 GMT Sender: news@netnews.upenn.edu Organization: University of Pennsylvania Lines: 4 Nntp-Posting-Host: eniac.seas.upenn.edu Does anyone have a list of ftp sites that contain ufo/alien/conspiracy material? I'm pretty sure that a list of the type exists and if it doesn't, then it should. My contribution is ns-mx.uiowa.edu. Path: ns-mx!uunet!hoptoad!chroma From: chroma@hoptoad.uucp (Steve Kudlak) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <28711@hoptoad.uucp> Date: 12 Apr 92 12:37:34 GMT References: <1992Apr10.194826.26510@terminator.cc.umich.edu> Reply-To: chroma@hoptoad.UUCP (Steve Kudlak) Organization: Mountain View Labs Genetic Engineering Lines: 53 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5249 alt.conspiracy:14008 talk.religion.newage:10049 alt.paranormal:4777 In article <1992Apr10.194826.26510@terminator.cc.umich.edu> briansp@css.itd.umich.edu (Brian Spolarich) writes: >In article garys@bluemoon.rn.com (Gary Stollman) writes: >>WELL, it has been a strange three months here in LA...God is continuing to >>wipe out the demons that have tried to destroy my family, and I have great >>hope for my future now...It looks like we just might win!! But the impact >>on my psyche is irreversible, I'm afraid...I just don't know what these >>aliens will come up with next...They have the phones tapped to the gills, >>and the CIA has most of the nodes (bbses) I call bugged and also the >>people on GEnie that are on the boards I frequent, but me thinks they >>might be getting tired somewhat...They know now that I didn't pull that >>toy gun on David Horowitz for nothing...But I don't think they know >>exactly WHY I did it...They will find out soon enough, I think... >> >> Gary >> >> This is from >> garys@bluemoon.rn.com >>who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet > > > Are we a little paranoid? Time for some Prozac, I think. > > > > > Wrong drug I think the psychs would precribe Navane (thiothixene) 5mg t.i.d. but alas....anyway this does sound like something a SCI-FI (SF ) Fan would pull....but anyway megabandwith can get wasted from just arguing over SF, SCi-FI or whatever....Just cross post and you'll see. Speaking of Posting I did post some things to the UK and they got returned for some myseriour reasons. If the person who wanted my version of "the silver man" is still out there, and still wants the material. Then said person should mail me. I should stop babbling, I might start coming to conclusion that there is connection between UFOs and female bodybuilding/weightlifting. After all the VENUS swimsuit company was going to hire one for some mysterious purpose or another. It might be the postive influence of entities from Xanax the Peaceful Planet! I would love to know the name of the novel with that in it, which >pre-existed< the phramaceuetical. Thaks for letting me have a little fun here...It is worth it. Be Seeing You, Sends Steve Reply to: chroma@toad.com Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!csd4.csd.uwm.edu!angus From: angus@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Andrew Michael Vebber) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Abducted while driving? Keywords: drugs Message-ID: <1992Apr13.033409.6385@uwm.edu> Date: 13 Apr 92 03:34:09 GMT References: <203995@unix.cis.pitt.edu> <1992Mar28.070941.1574@sdf.lonestar.org> Sender: news@uwm.edu (USENET News System) Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee Lines: 20 In article <1992Mar28.070941.1574@sdf.lonestar.org> hideo@sdf.lonestar.org (David Carter) writes: >I was abducted while skiing, and when I "came to" I was inexpilcably >soaking in a hot tub back at the lodge with my underwear on my head. >Eerie. > >David Carter : URANUS: not truly a place >aka Hideo Gump : where the Sun don't shine, >Dallas, Texas USA : but certainly a place where >hideo@sdf.lonestar.org : the Sun shines dimly! > > Dude, get real. - AY -- | angus@csd4.csd.uwm.edu | University of Wisconsin Milwaukee | |----------------------------|----------------------------------------| | "If the answer is Jerry Brown, then it is a awfully silly question. | Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!munnari.oz.au!cs.mu.OZ.AU!munta.cs.mu.OZ.AU!curmi From: curmi@munta.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Jamie Paul CURMI) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Pleiadians and Greys.... Summary: Pleiadians and Greys.... Message-ID: <9210413.28605@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> Date: 13 Apr 92 03:38:04 GMT Sender: news@cs.mu.OZ.AU Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia Lines: 89 Hi! Now look...I've been reading what people have been saying about these two groups of beings....and I want to ask a few questions: 1) Do you spell Pleiadians like this? I've seen about 5 different spellings so far. 2) Why do the Pleiadians all sound like Shirley Maclane(sic)? 3) How come the Greys keep stealing sexual organs and so forth from cows? Isn't it a case of 'seen one, you've seen 'em all'? Now I really think the idea of the Greys stealing sexual organs so they can do genetic experiments is a little on the daft side (though not quite as daft as the whole idea that the US government knows all about it). A more likely explanation is that the Greys have discovered that cow udders and bull goolies served steamed with a rice and a little parsely is quite yummy. ;-) Hybrids? I don't really see that, from a genetic point of view, a hybrid human-grey is possible. If they are insect-like, then I don't really follow the argument. And I can't really see why they'd bother.... So what I'm really trying to say is, why do so many of you believe these stories? I'm not trying to cause trouble here....I just want to know what makes you all so sure that Greys and Pleiadians exist. Now I don't know much about these stories.....only what i've picked up from the newspapers and so on. Instantly this is going to upset the believers who will give me a good flaming for discussing something I know so little about....but I figure it is better than not making any comment at all. Rather than just picking on you guys, I'm really just asking if you can try and convince me that I am wrong. ANYWAY.. PLEIADAINS ---------- The Pleiadians look just like us, but with Blonde hair...am I right? Was it Adamski who first described them as such (before Billy Meir(sic)). I thought it was discovered that his famous photos were actually just the top his washing machine? And Billy....didn't analysis of some of his photos show what could be wires and so forth.....and they found a burnt negative on his property showing a model of a spacecraft obviously on a table top. I know he said that he or someone else made a model of what they saw, but if thats what he saw, why didn't he take a photo of it (the camera is with him everywhere else) Doesn't all this make the whole Pleiadian story sound a little shakey? Not to mention the female Pleiadian he took photos of (the name was Semjaski or something). Looks remarkably like his girlfriend. GREYS ----- How come almost all reported aliens these days look like Greys, but a few years back we used to also get hairy-creatures, creatures with big noses, robots, angels, duck feat, suction cupped hands and so on. All of a sudden, that guy who wrote communion (Whitley Streiber or something) has influenced everyone into seeing greys. Now I would have been quite happy to except the idea of these greys.... atleast its more convincing than a group of blonde-human-like aliens who sound like new-ageists.....and they don't look totally human. But the hybrid stuff, and the human experiments etc,....it really does sound like science-fiction. If the greys are really there, then you guys who spread all this stuff about the hybrids and so on are really making the whole concept less and less plausible. (And I really think that if the US government got the idea for the Stealth bomber from aliens, they were ripped off. Surely some new power source for space travel would have been a better invention to get from them (after all, they must be experts at such travel)) Well, if you can clear up these points with me...I would be most greatful. Jamie -- Jamie P. Curmi (curmi@cs.mu.oz.au) Department of Computer Science, The University of Melbourne, Parkville, Victoria, Australia ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!mips!mips!decwrl!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: Date: 12 Apr 92 16:49:29 GMT References: Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 36 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5252 alt.conspiracy:14014 sci.skeptic:22620 alt.paranormal:4778 There was a letter very similar to this one that circulated in UFOlogy circles about a dozen years ago. The author - I don't remember his name - lived in New York City, and wrote a long and extremely literate letter about how he was under surveillance by aliens. They were watching him on the streets of New York, in the subways, and disturbing his life in various ways. He was claiming that evidence of this alien onslaught was all around us, but we failed to recognize it. What was remarkable about this author was his undeniable literary ability. One proof he gave of this supposed alien conspiracy against us concerned the aliens' supposed scheming to undermine the manhood of earth males. This was recently after the assassination in San Francisco of Harvey Milk, the first openly homosexual member of the City Council there, and the author of the letter pointed triumphantly to the letters printed on every carton of milk: "HOMO MILK". He argued that the aliens were behind this, and I don't doubt that he believed it. This letter went out to all of the major UFO groups such as APRO, CUFOS, MUFON, etc., and to a number of well-known individual researchers including Allan Hendry and Philip J. Klass. The year must have been 1979, or possibly early 1980. I thought I retained a copy of this letter, but I am unable to locate it. If anyone has seen this letter, or has a copy of it, please contact me. -- Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! "In the 1970's the world will undergo famines - hundreds of millions of people are going to starve to death in spite of any crash programs embarked upon now ... in 1985, when it is calculated [under the most optimistic scenario] that the major die-back will be over, ..." Dr. Paul Ehrlich, "The Population Bomb," 1968 Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!mips!mips!decwrl!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: Date: 12 Apr 92 16:52:17 GMT References: Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 36 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5253 alt.conspiracy:14015 sci.skeptic:22621 alt.paranormal:4779 There was a letter very similar to this one that circulated in UFOlogy circles about a dozen years ago. The author - I don't remember his name - lived in New York City, and wrote a long and extremely literate letter about how he was under surveillance by aliens. They were watching him on the streets of New York, in the subways, and disturbing his life in various ways. He was claiming that evidence of this alien onslaught was all around us, but we failed to recognize it. What was remarkable about this author was his undeniable literary ability. One proof he gave of this supposed alien conspiracy against us concerned the aliens' supposed scheming to undermine the manhood of earth males. This was recently after the assassination in San Francisco of Harvey Milk, the first openly homosexual member of the City Council there, and the author of the letter pointed triumphantly to the letters printed on every carton of milk: "HOMO MILK". He argued that the aliens were behind this, and I don't doubt that he believed it. This letter went out to all of the major UFO groups such as APRO, CUFOS, MUFON, etc., and to a number of well-known individual researchers including Allan Hendry and Philip J. Klass. The year must have been 1979, or possibly early 1980. I thought I retained a copy of this letter, but I am unable to locate it. If anyone has seen this letter, or has a copy of it, please contact me. -- Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! "In the 1970's the world will undergo famines - hundreds of millions of people are going to starve to death in spite of any crash programs embarked upon now ... in 1985, when it is calculated [under the most optimistic scenario] that the major die-back will be over, ..." Dr. Paul Ehrlich, "The Population Bomb," 1968 Path: ns-mx!uunet!munnari.oz.au!metro!seagoon.newcastle.edu.au!cc.newcastle.edu.au!ccasm From: ccasm@cc.newcastle.edu.au Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again... Message-ID: <1992Apr13.163826.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> Date: 13 Apr 92 06:38:26 GMT References: <1992Apr1.020902.587@zip.eecs.umich.edu> <-zlj3qq.raj@netcom.com> <1992Apr10.053001.28484@techbook.com> <1992Apr11.024555.26284@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> Sender: news@seagoon.newcastle.edu.au Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA Lines: 31 B E R T & E A R N I E used to do this on Sesamie Street except it was FUNNY ! Path: ns-mx!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Ufo Magazine. Message-ID: <125990.29E92A8F@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 13 Apr 92 05:27:00 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - Can I get the address for UFO Magazine? I had it awhile back, but it's > been > misplaced somewhere. Also, can someone type out the table of contents > for a > recent UFO Magazine? I want to see what types of articles are in it. The address is: UFO Magazine P.O. Box 1053 Sunland, CA 91041-1053 I will place something here about the upcoming issue. Also, Don Ecker, the Research Director for UFO Magazine is a participant in this conference. Mike -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: ns-mx!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Ufo Magazine Vol.7 #3 Message-ID: <125992.29E92A93@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 13 Apr 92 05:32:00 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - Date: 13 Apr 92 05:29:00 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - Has anyone had any sort of unusual encounters anywhere near > Washington, NJ, specifically on Montana Mountain? I have > seen a few unusual sights which I cannot explain. I don't > want to elaborate at this time, so as not to color anyone's > responses, but in general what I saw was light I could not > explain and a strange absence of sound which I could not > explain. If anyone is interested I will elaborate more at > a later time, so you all can try to prove it was something > easily explainable. If you are serious and saw something > there, please let me know at l228-a10@info.ucb.edu. or in > this newsgroup. Thanks Heather Schwabe I would encourage you to netmail me at mcorbin@paranet.org. I would like to hear more about it, particularly if it was of unusual shape. Mike -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!math.fu-berlin.de!Germany.EU.net!news.netmbx.de!zelator!leo From: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de (Stefan Hartmann) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFO ftp sites Keywords: ftp Message-ID: <5491QCE@zelator.in-berlin.de> Date: 13 Apr 92 11:27:12 GMT References: <73795@netnews.upenn.edu> Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System Lines: 25 In <73795@netnews.upenn.edu> vvallopp@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Vinod V Valloppillil) writes: > Does anyone have a list of ftp sites that contain ufo/alien/conspiracy >material? I'm pretty sure that a list of the type exists and if it doesn't, >then it should. My contribution is ns-mx.uiowa.edu. Hi, the UFO-material FTP-server is phoenix.oulu.fi (130.231.240.17) Look in /pub/ufo_and_space_pics or /pub/incoming ! Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for Decentral Energy Research email to: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de -- ******************************************************************************* * Stefan Hartmann This is how to contact me: * * EMAIL: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de * * Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79 * ******************************************************************************* Path: ns-mx!uunet!math.fu-berlin.de!Germany.EU.net!news.netmbx.de!zelator!leo From: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de (Stefan Hartmann) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Pleiadians and Greys.... Message-ID: Date: 13 Apr 92 11:34:52 GMT References: <9210413.28605@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System Lines: 21 Hi, is one of the GREYs the dead alien body shown in the picture alien.gif at the UFO-pic-FTP-site at phoenix.oulu.fi (130.231.240.17) ??? Do You know more about ??? P.S.: directory /pub/ufo_and_space_pics Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for Decentral Energy Research email to: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de -- ******************************************************************************* * Stefan Hartmann This is how to contact me: * * EMAIL: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de * * Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79 * ******************************************************************************* Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!wupost!uunet!mcsun!uknet!glasgow!ullaha From: ullaha@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (friend) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Mach6 spy plane Keywords: spy ufo plane Message-ID: <1992Apr13.153114.18290@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> Date: 13 Apr 92 15:31:14 GMT Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept. Lines: 9 Reading the 'Sunday Mail' - came across an article- a stealth spy plane reportedly operating out of a remote Scottish US air base. The plane had reportedly been tracked at mach 3 ( some- stealth) and reportedly capable of mach 6. It apparently land upside down - to shield it radar reflective surface. The town that it operates near is called (pprox) Machirainish. Locals reported a ufo- It looks like an oval flat disc apparently (hmm) Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!csn!scicom!paranet!f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Clark.Matthews From: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: UFO meeting in Berlin Message-ID: <126017.29E95880@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 13 Apr 92 10:58:00 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:107/816 - The Wrong Num, Jersey City NJ Lines: 37 Hallo, Andre! Greetings from New York! > International UFO congress in Berlin (Germany) > KIK - communication in the universe, congress & exhibition > 16.-20.4.92 in Berlin > A international UFO-congress take place at April 16.-20. in > Berlin. Gratulieren und glueck auf mit dieser Konferenz! Aber ich habe einige Frage ueber Virgil Armstrong. [Kudos on the Conference -- But I've got some questions re: Virgil Armstrong] > Speakers: > Virgil Armstrong, USA, Sponsor, as secret service > officer he works > on the recovery of the first > UFO, found 1948 in > the USA. Meiner Erinnerung nach, war Armstrong Astronaut in der fruehern Tagen des US Space Program. Ich habe nichts von seiner Roswell-Aktivitaeten gehoert. Sind Sie sicher, dass diesen Mann gutglaeubig ist? Entw. echt Astronaut od. echt Roswellzeuge? Sei vorsichtig, mein Freund -- die Betrueger und die Disinformers (Unberichtstattern??? Die Wortschatz hilft nicht...) kommen von allen Seiten. [To our American listeners -- I'm wondering if *anyone* has heard of Virgil Armstrong's involvement in the Roswell case? I've never heard of this guy. Could it be a *different* Virgil Armstrong? Or could this possibly refer to Gerald Anderson -- who was only 8 or 9 at the time and certainly was not an Army-Intelligence man? I'm wondering just exactly who our German friends have speaking at their conference...] Andre, ich habe deine Konferenz-notiz ins INFO.PARANET sitzt. Glueck auf! Best, Clark -- Clark Matthews - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!csn!scicom!paranet!f10.n2403.z2.FIDONET.ORG!Andre.Eichner From: Andre.Eichner@f10.n2403.z2.FIDONET.ORG (Andre Eichner) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: me too Message-ID: <126020.29E96C73@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 7 Apr 92 15:34:00 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 2:2403/10 - FidoNet Berli, Berlin 41 Lines: 27 Hello JEAN-FRANCOIS! Saturday April 04 1992, JEAN-FRANCOIS HEON writes to All: JH> From: heonj00@DMI.USherb.CA (JEAN-FRANCOIS HEON) JH> Date: 3 Apr 92 18:21:27 GMT JH> Organization: Universite de Sherbrooke, Quebec JH> Message-ID: <1992Apr3.182127.12536@DMI.USherb.CA> JH> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors JH> Hi, my name is 12-A-44B. Im an Alien living here since 1942. I JH> came from the planet Zanazaka, and I have a special mission... The Devil JH> does not exist as we imagine him; In reality, The Devil is a system JH> administrator. And the goal of my intergalactical trip is to find that JH> sysadmin and then eradicate his name from all the hard disks in the JH> universe. JH> And when this day will be, the world will be saved. I see ... more and more twits are writing in this area... it's a pitty for this echo. cheers Andre -- Andre Eichner - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Andre.Eichner@f10.n2403.z2.FIDONET.ORG Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!csn!scicom!paranet!f10.n2403.z2.FIDONET.ORG!Andre.Eichner From: Andre.Eichner@f10.n2403.z2.FIDONET.ORG (Andre Eichner) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: UFO meeting in Berlin Message-ID: <126021.29E96C75@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 7 Apr 92 15:37:00 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 2:2403/10 - FidoNet Berli, Berlin 41 Lines: 50 International UFO congress in Berlin (Germany) KIK - communication in the universe, congress & exhibition 16.-20.4.92 in Berlin A international UFO-congress take place at April 16.-20. in Berlin. Speakers: Virgil Armstrong, USA, Sponsor, as secret service officer he works on the recovery of the first UFO, found 1948 in the USA. Fred Bell, USA Scientist, works with pyramid-energy and is in contect with the aliens and makes music Valerij Nagibin, GUS psychologist, medical doctor, UFO-research scientist and para-psychologist. Anthony Dodd, UK ex Sergeant of UK police. employee of UFO-journal QUEST investigate the crop circles in UK Prof. J. J. Hurtak USA futurology, director of "future Science" institute Dr. Edith Fiore USA psychologist, works with persons which was captured through aliens. Douglas Pue, USA Ex NASA-employee, is informed about contacts between aliens and the US Gouvernment. JULIE RAVEL BRD Channel und spiritual head of the Licht-Oase Berlin, arranges newest information from the "Ashtar Command". MICKY REMANN, New Age writer and expert for unusual spirital occurrence. and many more. besides become a lot NewAge technical news in a exhibition/fair. for more information and registration call If you place a call, please inform about the source "FidoNet/ParaNet-Berlin"! International cultural centre "UFA-Fabrik Berlin" : +49-30-752 80 85 Fax......: +49-30-752 23 44 cheers Andre call FidoNet-Berlin at ++49-30-7919269 (HST/V32bis, 3 Lines) -- Andre Eichner - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Andre.Eichner@f10.n2403.z2.FIDONET.ORG Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!rutgers!ub!dsinc!pitt.edu!unix.cis.pitt.edu!seawasp From: seawasp+@pitt.edu (Ryk E Spoor) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Mach6 spy plane Keywords: spy ufo plane Message-ID: <204844@unix.cis.pitt.edu> Date: 13 Apr 92 17:39:48 GMT References: <1992Apr13.153114.18290@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> Sender: news@unix.cis.pitt.edu Organization: University of Pittsburgh Lines: 38 In article <1992Apr13.153114.18290@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> ullaha@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (friend) writes: >Reading the 'Sunday Mail' - came across an article- >a stealth spy plane reportedly operating out of a remote Scottish >US air base. The plane had reportedly been tracked at mach 3 ( some- >stealth) and reportedly capable of mach 6. >It apparently land upside down - to shield it radar reflective surface. >The town that it operates near is called (pprox) Machirainish. Well... Despite the fact that it is retired from normal service, the SR-71 Blackbird is easily capable of doing over Mach 3, and no one has ANY idea, really, what its maximum speed is -- that is classified and, to quote the designer (talking about the fact that the Blackbird has held the record for airspeed for years) "We're just waiting for the Russians [or someone] to break the record so we can take her out of the hangar and show 'em what it'll REALLY do!" It is also the first plane to exhibit such a tiny radar profile that it COULD qualify as a stealth craft (a sort of proto-stealth). (It is also, in my opinion, the most beautiful aircraft ever made, a streamlined work of art). So the speeds quoted could fit a Blackbird, or a modified version thereof, or some newer craft. However, I don't think there *IS* any other aircraft on earth that can go that fast. Sea Wasp /^\ ;;; --------------------------------------------------------------------------- . .. . . * . . . . : . _*_ . . . .. . . . . @---====OOOOO====---@~/^\ . . . . . * . .. ^*^ . . ;;; . . . * : . . . . . .* . . . --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Interphase Accomplished. Sea Wasp docked, Outring Sector 5. Path: ns-mx!umaxc.weeg.uiowa.edu From: zharman@umaxc.weeg.uiowa.edu (Raven Roshi) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Subject: PLANETCOM UPDATE Message-ID: <12174@ns-mx.uiowa.edu> Date: 14 Apr 92 20:40:47 GMT Sender: news@ns-mx.uiowa.edu Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Organization: U of Iowa, Iowa City, IA Lines: 431 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5265 alt.conspiracy:14038 (Posted with permission by author.) Concerning "Revelations" author-Jacques Vallee January 15, 1992 Dear Jacques, Far from a "revelation", as answer to either Harbinson's "Genesis", or the Bible's, (the [aliens] sons of God took the daughters of men for wives, Gen 6:6), your book is expertly written but shows your tremendous bias by omission. You have lightly tapped some of the "intelligence operatives" in the UFO field smartly on the wrist with your iron ruler, or was it an iron cross? Gave Bill Cooper's four year old viewpoints instead of his current rethought position. Wrote three pages separated by many pages about the mechanical side of the flying object scenario possibly having been produced here on earth by earthlings. Lip service to assuage the uninformed. Sure, there are extraterrestrials with bodies, and they must have craft in which to travel. There are also other-dimensional bodiless beings who need no craft to travel in. You are probably like most folks and say that unless you saw a bodiless being you wouldn't think it possible. In order to "see" a bodiless being, one must go within and withdraw one's attention from the exterior world of the senses. Come on, Jacques, double think, triple think and get to the bottom of things. Otherwise you are no better at this gig than any other decent writer who needs money, and applies themselves to definitely "one-sided" revelations. 1947 brought the passage of the National Security Act, the start of the Nazi germinated CIA and NSA. The influx of at least a hundred Nazi scientists, engineers, etc., into the United States and Canada. A Nazi aeronautical engineer, a certain Herr Miethe, who had designed four different types of saucer shaped craft by 1943 using either rocket power or donut configuration jet turbine engines (rather than cylindrical), with the cabin stabilized by gyro, the compressors rotating in one direction and the expansion chambers and vectored exhausts rotating in the opposite direction, was traced to Canada in 1947 and began work for the A. V. Roe company (Avroe disk). The phony AVROE "aircar" was definitely to disinform the press as to the real projects underway underground in Canada. The eight mile long train that went out of Austria in 1945 (672 train cars!), to the coast of Brittany, the contents loaded on board ships, eventually ending up underground in Southwestern Canada. At the same time over 100 prefab factory buildings were shipped from England to British Columbia. Get your "remote viewing" friend to scope the spot for you. Anybody could find it, even at this late date. A complete underground construction and flight testing facility in British Columbia. The 1947 first "sighting" of a flight of "saucers", Kenneth Arnold, etc., etc., right over the border from the underground base in British Columbia. The base was decommisioned in about 1952 when we (the Americans) traded the H-bomb technology for all the improved German hardware, and the scientists and technicians to go with it. The first flights of these "captured disks" by remote or on board pilots unfamiliar with their controls led to the early crashes in Roswell and elsewhere. The disks were captured from "aliens" (Nazis), and there were definitely "alien bodies" at the crash sites, (Canadian). A special group was formed to keep this technology and in effect all the most advanced forms of technologies separate from the general course of science. This group has powers above the executive branch. Who knows what it's called? By the way, the Nazis had everything before any other country, they had radar in 1933 they had infra-red sensors, heavy water, etc., etc. We have been told lie after lie in terms of who invented these things. If anyone in the world had access to "alien" technology it was the master race "Aryans" (Nazis). Their metallurgy and casting were flawed or they would have conquered the world. As you probably know, many expatriot Nazis were given carte blanche, new I.D's., and were included in startup of more than several departments of the CIA in 1947. Departments including "genetics and cloning" (with some of the same "doctors" who had given death camp residents gangrene, etc.), "designer drugs and mind control" using the same scientists who had designed Methadone and Methedrine for Hitler's maniacal efforts. In 1952, a public stir caused the CIA to shuffle these fab fellows out of town. My guess is to the various underground centers that were being built. There's two reasons why you don't reveal things about the characters in your book, either you don't know, or you are protecting certain agendas. Linda Howe is a nice person, most certainly in on the deception or so naive as to be pathetic. The technology for hand held lasers driven by power supplies that only weigh 200 pounds has existed for twenty years or more. DARPA builds them and they have all the necessary capabilities she is overawed with. The reason for all the testing of animal systems from stem to stern, reproductive systems and other organs by us, is that 85% of the current underground nuclear testing and 100% of the above ground testing in the past at the Nevada Test Site, has vented radioactivity into the atmosphere. The radiation travels downwind offsite, and for the last 47 years has affected and continues to affect the terrain and the animals with measureable radioactivity in the various systems. It's only natural for those who think they are in control to try to measure the quantitative damage they have inflicted and keep inflicting on the earth and its inhabitants and to KEEP THE RESULTS SECRET. These days the largest rug that you can sweep secrets under is the "alien" flying carpet! It interested me to see your specious formula equating the number of landings, number of sightings, and number of close encounters, into a formula for the amount of landings that would have occurred unseen by humans if your theory would have held mud. The problem, according to my information, is that "sightings" and "close encounters" of "aliens" by humans have always been staged, and for a most important reason. It's estimated that 1% of the population believes the crap about little-big-heads making a deal with our government in the 50's, if they can get 5% of the population to "believe", they can run the scam and everybody will fall into line. Lazar probably works for NSA and was running a game typical of the Russian G.R.U. on the scientists from Los Alamos where the "Honeysuckle Parlor" was, compromising them via videotape, then trying to decompartmentalize them. He did the same for the personnel he came into contact with at the test site in Nevada, he would recommend them to his bugged whore house in Vegas to be taped and compromised. Then there was the Lazar show on KLAS and George Knapp and Gene Huff (Lazar's "clean-up man" like Nancy Davis Reagan was the "clean-up person for Ronnie), John Grace (the infamous Valdomar Valerian of "The Matrix" papers and head of Nevada Aerial Research Group), John Lear and all the other interested parties now have a list of "test site employees" and others who called and wrote in, telling about seeing "things" at the test site. The operation was mainly to expose leaks in security at the test site. The reason Lazar was at either location was to pick up exposed film taken of particle collisions (at Los Alamos) or particle beam interactions (taken at the test site Nevada) and develop it and return it poste haste to its point of origin. He had a top secret clearance for this. With such a clearance, he was a valuable asset to the small super secret group spoken about previously. He was keeping track of which scientists were working on what. Lazar doesn't violate the tenets of his security oath. None of these shuck artists do. If he were to talk about the particles and paths he saw on the film he used to develop, they would put him away in solitude. He is not a physicist and never was. I have talked to Paul Bennewitz at length, several times. On his behalf, you only tell people how they drove him nuts, not why. I ask myself why would you leave out the reason that they sent him reeling? To fill you in, because you obviously took Linda Howe's and Tracy's opinion rather than questioning Paul directly; he's a pilot, he flew over the Dulce area numerous times on his way between Albuquerque and Denver. He took many pictures of the construction going on, and according to Paul, he also took pictures of circular craft on the ground at this site which, as late as 1973, according to him, had large hangar doors much the same as Lazar's second hand explanation about the doors at S-4. (All the stuff from area 51 and "S-4" having to do with inertial mass cancellation has been moved to an area near St. George, Utah). The most revealing photos and their negatives disappeared in about 1975 when various "fringe UFO experts" visited Paul. Also, his house was burglarized and ransacked more than once. In later years Moore, Shandera, and Torme made a meaningless tour of Dulce and then went on to Albuquerque (the real reason for their travels) to see if there was any more evidence of serious consequence still in Paul's possession that they could grab, and sure enough, he was missing some more photos when they left his house. If you had even talked to Bennewitz, you would have gotten a lot closer to having a "revelation". But by listening to what Linda Howe has to say about Bennewitz, you might as well call your book, "Hearsay". By the way, you could have your "remote viewer" look at the Dulce area and easily show you some entrance points. The "waste" from the underground bio-genetic lab (no aliens involved, although that is where we humans produce the short lived, big-eyed, big headed imitation "aliens") comes out in the river canyon about ten miles below Navajo Dam. Although these days they "treat" it a lot more before letting their "grey" water back into the environment. This base and others are of course connected by tunnels to Los Alamos. The Archuleta Mesa installation rivals Pine Gap at Alice Springs, Australia for security, etc. Every U.S. Air Force base has a so-called "bolt-hole" and is connected to the bolt-hole by tunnel. Another source was in the area of the Archuleta Mesa in 1972. At that time a narrow gauge railway spur still existed that went down from Durango, CO, through Dulce, N.M. through Chama, N.M., and ended several miles later where it used to connect to a straight line narrow gauge track that had gone all the way from Albuquerque to Denver (part of the original Durango-Silverton Line). This person noted a tremendous amount of materiel being unloaded at a crossing of this narrow gauge railway and the dirt road he was travelling on. A bunch of workers were unloading flat cars full of cement, pipe, etc, onto flatbed trucks that then disappeared down the dirt road toward the Jicarillo Indian Reservation, he took pictures because he was interested in the antique railcars, etc. There were no accomodations in the area at that time so he made his way up to Durango to stay the night before going on with his travels. He was "tailed" all the way to Durango to the motel parking lot by a "military type" wearing civilian clothes, in an open civilian type jeep. That evening he went to the bar to have a few drinks, was picked up by a good looking woman who went with him to his room, in the morning, she was gone and so was all his film, not just the film in the camera! I have had several occasions in my research to note that women are often used to garner someone's trust. I call these women "military millies", in honor of the one I personally came into contact with who called herself "Milly". Pretty Army and Air Force brats are mind-controlled at an early age and taught to gain information from their subjects with the use of sex. A group of 21 people led by an individual we will call Rick, went to area 51 in 1989 in a small bus to watch "saucers". They were stopped on "mail-box road" by two individuals carrying automatic weapons and wearing camouflage togs. One individual popped a can of "gas" in the aisle of the bus, and that's all they all remembered for three hours. When they came to their senses, they cut their trip short, returned to L.A. and five persons got separately regressed using hypnotic regressers that did not know one another, and found that during the lost time their memories had repressed similar events. They had been marched off the bus, taken in jeeps to a building nearby, and had their lives threatened by military personnel. No "aliens" whatsoever. In the U.S., the group that runs the "alien abduction scam" can only use some of the hardiest of these short lived bio-genetic bad luck stories. Short lived because they have no digestive tract and can survive only about two weeks maximum after they are removed from the growing matrix, then they deteriorate and die. They have no "soul" and are not considered "sentient beings" by Tibetan Buddhists. The French are obviously not as skilled as the U.S. in fabricating biological entities, and so weren't able to expose poor unfortunate Franck Fontaine to any phony aliens. Instead, only keeping him in and out of the "twilight zone" in their "clean room" wherever that was. They used a haloperidol-like substance in the fog that surrounded his car. Edith Fiore is a new arrival in the huckster professional wrestling world of UFO experts. She claims to be a clinical psychologist. ALL of her female patients who "remember" with help, their "abduction" experience, remember a long steel surgical needle being used to take eggs from their ovaries. The same kind of long steel surgical needle that WE USE to take eggs from female ovaries. If these little greys are thousands of years in advance of us as the liars would have us believe, why are they limited to using model "T" technology to get our women's eggs? Gimme a break! The reason the needle is remembered is because it is painful, temporarily breaking the hold of the drug induced mind control. Some of these women also remember a human in the room at that time. Bud Hopkins is definitely an intelligence agent from hell, slavering over the females he has attracted to his franchised "abduction workshops", where all the females are "supported" by other females who have had "the same experience". One of the "details" that Bud harps on that he hasn't published and that he retains "secret" as a test for authenticity when he interviews new applicant "abductees" is the "long steel surgical needle". If you remember the needle you are authentic in Bud's cosmology. Thanks to Bud Hopkins' franchise, female "abductees" can look in any phone book yellow pages and find an "abduction support group". Whitley Streiber wrote "B" quality horror novels before he got seriously mind-controlled at the Monroe Institute. Then he started talking about little "somethings" messing around with him in between sleep and wakefulness. Monroe has 5 permanent resident CIA astral travelers who do nothing but "help" people to "understand" their "travels" in group sessions after the fact. Bob Monroe says that his "people", go into the astral world and everything becomes foggy, so one wouldn't know if one was astralling in San Francisco or London. I am a remote viewer and conscious dreamer, and I know that information to be spurious. The place that he and his people are going is "limbo land". The places which I set myself to view or travel to, I actually see or visit. No fog involved. Proof is in the pudding. Haldol is used to "treat" multiple personality disorder. The inverse is also true, multiple personalities can be "created" and screened from one another with the use of Haldol. To become even more complex for the sake of current discussion, one "personality" would remember an abduction experience, and would be given dominance over any other "personality" by the individual's "handler". The drug haloperidol-generic (Haldol-trade name), when given in slight overdose causes a three hour lost time/lost memory experience. Six American psychiatrists so far are under indictment for taking advantage of their female patients using this drug in overdose. Their mistake? They didn't "mask" the "lost time" with a "memory" of some sort, and so the women, after a short while, became suspicious and went to different psychiatrists, got hypnotized to find themselves remembering the exact events. To the indicted psychiatrists' liking, one can have a person slightly overdosed on haloperidol do anything physically possible and not remember a thing for awhile! Whereas if you mask the lost time with a "unique memory" the person will tend to cling to that "memory", or repress that "memory" (to the detriment of remembering the truth) for a longer time. If the person joins a support group that periodically refreshes the "memory", it will maintain long into the person's future. The army's mind control unit must take well deserved credit for the veterans who seemingly go suddenly crazy, killing many people and then themselves. The most recent event in Killeen, Texas was planned for the day BEFORE a Congressional vote on gun control, hoping to influence Congress with yet another mass automatic killing. Handlers (psychiatrists) at each perpetrator's local Veterans Hospital are involved in each and every case of these mass killings/suicides. Prozac is also involved with each case having been prescribed by the aforementioned "handlers" in each and every case. The fellow in Canada who killed 12 women at a women's college, the fellow in the Stockton, California schoolyard, etc., etc. Try reading the "Global 2000 Report", and the 1959 study by the Club of Rome, I could send you a copy of "Stopping the Coming Ice Age" videotape, this in order to gain an overview of what is really going on. "They" know that the weather is changing permanently for the next 100,000 years, going back to an ice age. It has done this 17 times in the last 1.8 million years. Global warming is a lie like so many other lies that we have been told in order for them to insinuate that we have 50 years in which to change our habits. These jerks tell us these lies in order to maintain power, mine the last of the ore, suck the last of the oil, sell us the last drop of gasoline and then tell us that they were mistaken; when it's far too late for most of us to grow food. They say that they do these heinous crimes in the name of human survival. The only survival they work for is their own. They work out of fear. Less than half of the world's arable land will still be able to support the growth of food crops shortly, so the concensus is that half of the world population must die by starving to death, AIDS (germ warfare-Strecker Memorandum), or killing one another. In order to maintain a semblance of control during infrastructure breakdown when people are killing each other for food, they will fly the saucers and tell us we are undergoing an alien invasion, please stop rioting, go to your local post office and register, FEMA will take over and it will be a "new world order". Fascist one world government, Communism already lost according to plan and despotic Fascism always wins because people are complacent and refuse to get involved. Bush will feign serious illness in October, to throw the election. He doesn't want to be in power when this place falls apart, which will be by 1996. Six years worth of grain is missing from the nation's grain silos. Secreted underground no doubt. There are about five major end time scenarios that you should consider in order for you to come up to speed on the totality and magnitude of the subterfuge. You could call my service and leave a neutral number and time when you can be reached. 818-569-3072 cc. M. William Cooper, Vladimir Terziyski, Martin Cannon, Paul Bennewitz, and a multitude of other "friends". ********************************************************* Apology February 22, 1992 Dear Jacques, This letter is being sent and given to all who received or were given copies of the first letter that I wrote to you entitled "Concerning Revelations, author Jacques Vallee". I hope you will accept my sincere apology for what I spewed forth in a state of picque while thinking of it as "creative license". I hope all the other individuals and groups mentioned will also accept my heartfelt apology. I am pretty sure that all of the people and groups I mentioned believe in what they are doing, and believe they are doing what is "right". I did not mean to stir up pain or suffering in anyone's personal life, hurt people's feelings or commerce by weaving these real people into imaginary and/or outright false fabric. The first letter was written with specific tone, certain style, using a few facts and a lot of embellishment. The myriad results could not have been imagined and were mostly obtained because the letter was written in that manner and sent unsigned to all who received it. To those who still don't know who I am, my name appears in Bill Cooper's book "Behold a Pale Horse", which I suggest that everyone should purchase and read. It's all right for the major players to go underground during a crisis, either "natural" or contrived. We need to lose half the population of this place in order to save it from total devastation. We need to preserve certain whole aspects of our ordered civilization. It's all right that unconventional means are used to get laws passed to take armaments out of the hands of all the idiots. As we approach certain debacle, the ends justify the means. After the occurrence of the last days scenario, there will be two main types of surviving groups on the surface. 1. Total imbeciles with plenty of paranoia, plenty of guns, ammo, food, bigotry, racism, etc. 2. Loving families of "light" hidden away in out of the way places, living in harmony with this Earth and the Cosmos. I have heard that you read the entire first letter. I have gained valuable input from people that called my answering service and left their numbers or various messages. I think you must have sensed that the first letter did not need your response, however, I would certainly appreciate talking to you sometime. Needless to say, Planet Com is working on an "apocryphal book" which contains information about this epoch that has never been common knowledge. It will be available in 3 months. Projected cost will be $15.00 Anyone interested in subscribing to a newsletter which Planet Com has available, please send $2.00 and request to Planet Com (818) 569-3072 Box 33, Mountain Center, CA 92561 cc. Those of you who copied and distributed the first letter, please make copies of this letter and do the same. ********************************************************** If you have intentions of replying to this post, PLEASE do not send me (zharman@umaxc.weeg.uiowa.edu) email. All replies (unless they are general comments) should be sent DIRECTLY to PLANETCOM (phone and address included.) I am not the one to answer questions, PLANETCOM _is_. ********************************** Please distribute this!!!!!!!!!!!! ********************************** Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!shark!glarson From: glarson@shark.micro.umn.edu (Greg Larson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Pleiadians and Greys.... Message-ID: <1992Apr13.201901.3412@news2.cis.umn.edu> Date: 13 Apr 92 20:19:01 GMT References: <9210413.28605@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> Sender: news@news2.cis.umn.edu (Usenet News Administration) Organization: University of Minnesota CIS Lines: 17 Nntp-Posting-Host: shark.micro.umn.edu In article <9210413.28605@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> curmi@munta.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Jamie Paul CURMI) writes: >Hybrids? I don't really see that, from a genetic point of view, a hybrid >human-grey is possible. If they are insect-like, then I don't really follow >the argument. And I can't really see why they'd bother.... >Jamie >-- >Jamie P. Curmi (curmi@cs.mu.oz.au) >Department of Computer Science, >The University of Melbourne, Parkville, Victoria, Australia >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I agree, it seems pretty far-fetched. But try using your imagination a bit. With a computer that understands both the alien and human genetics, you may want to examine humans, see how their DNA relates to their physical construction, and have the COMPUTER do the "mixing" for you. The computer could simulate the results without having to actually develop a tweaked alien being. Path: ns-mx!uunet!world!kibo From: kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again... Message-ID: Date: 13 Apr 92 19:22:52 GMT References: <1992Apr10.053001.28484@techbook.com> <1992Apr11.024555.26284@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> <1992Apr13.163826.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> Organization: A room filled with typography (in Boston's Back Bay) Lines: 47 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5267 alt.religion.kibology:1615 [alt.alien.visitors] In article <1992Apr13.163826.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> ccasm@cc.newcastle.edu.au writes: > > > > > > > B E R T & E A R N I E > > > used to do this on Sesamie Street > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > except it was FUNNY ! > > > > > How odd. I don't recall B E R T and E A R N I E posting articles that are 99% whitespace on "Sesamie Street". Was E A R N I E the one who was wrongly charged with arson when Big Bird's cigarette ignited his nest when he fell asleep? Or was E A R N I E the one with the scar? -- K. Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!bonnie.concordia.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!bison!draco!orion!stimpsn From: stimpsn@bbs.orion.bison.mb.ca (Gary Stimpson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Pleiadians and Greys.... Message-ID: Date: 13 Apr 92 20:31:41 GMT References: <9210413.28605@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> Sender: bbs@orion.bison.mb.ca (BBS Account) Organization: The Orion Unix System [A/UX 2.0.1], Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Lines: 41 ** On a lighter side ** curmi@munta.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Jamie Paul CURMI) writes: > Hi! > > Now look...I've been reading what people have been saying about these > two groups of beings....and I want to ask a few questions: > > 1) Do you spell Pleiadians like this? I've seen about 5 different > spellings so far. I spell it Plooiadians. I like it that way. > 2) Why do the Pleiadians all sound like Shirley Maclane(sic)? Because they are fake. > 3) How come the Greys keep stealing sexual organs and so forth from cows? > Isn't it a case of 'seen one, you've seen 'em all'? Sick sense of humor? > So what I'm really trying to say is, why do so many of you believe these > stories? I'm not trying to cause trouble here....I just want to know what > makes you all so sure that Greys and Pleiadians exist. I believe SOME type of entities exist, but when people get their information from telepathy and all that new age stuff, I just don't believe it. YES, they are contacting SOMETHING, but the SOMETHING is not telling the truth. > Jamie > -- > Jamie P. Curmi (curmi@cs.mu.oz.au) > Department of Computer Science, > The University of Melbourne, Parkville, Victoria, Australia > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- stimpsn@bbs.orion.bison.mb.ca (Gary Stimpson) The Orion Unix System [A/UX 2.0.1], Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!sun4nl!sara5!hasara11!a410jacq From: A410JACQ@HASARA11.BITNET (Jacqueline Cote) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: The Pleiades Needs Telescopes! (Re: The Pleiadians: Awakening) Message-ID: <92104.101431A410JACQ@HASARA11.BITNET> Date: 14 Apr 92 03:44:42 GMT References: <56549@cup.portal.com><1992Mar30.162009.4190@watdragon.waterloo.edu><1992Apr10.134752.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> Organization: SARA - Stichting Academisch Rekencentrum Amsterdam Lines: 17 Yes , indeed the star CLUSTER The Pleiades has many, many stars. That's why it's called a star cluster, you see :-). BTW would those people who chat to these Pleiades persons please ask them what makes a Be star tick (many of the B-type stars in the Pleiades, which is a YOUNG cluster BTW, are of that type)? Knowing what makes them tick would greatly advance my thesis on these beasties! Thank you! And Oh, yes: which Zeta Reticulum star do these Greys come from? Zeta 1 (HR 1006 G3-5V, V=5.54 at 10.6 pc = 33.6 ly) or Zeta 2 (HR 1010 G2V, V=5.24 at 11pc = 35.8 ly CPM with HR 1006)? JC ________________________________________________________________________________ Jacqueline Cote' | Astronomical Inst., Un. of Amsterdam | Kruislaan 403, 1098 SJ Amsterdam, The Netherlands A410JACQ@HASARA11 | phone: +31 (0)20 5257479 +31 (0)38 530998 (home) a410jacq@vm1.sara.nl | telex: 10262 hef nl FAX: +31 (0)20 5257484 Path: ns-mx!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!sei.cmu.edu!drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu!cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!aw2s+ From: aw2s+@andrew.cmu.edu (Andrew Todd Weinstein) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: UFO CONSPIRACY Message-ID: Date: 14 Apr 92 03:24:42 GMT Organization: Freshman, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Lines: 1336 I retrieved this very interesting document from an ftp: quartz.rutgers.edu or 128.6.60.6 in the /pub/scitech directory which contains other interesting documents besides this one. This file is ufo.conspiracy.Z (compressed) Let me know what any of you think about this, about the authors credebility, the credibility of the information, etc. because it has a lot of interesting inform ation, including a section that says that aliens created the four major religions here on earth and showed us a hologram of the crucification of Christ and alie ns supposedly through hybridization or something, created Jesus Christ according to this document. I am sure that there is other information in this document t hat has much more credence than that, but I just mentioned that to get you interested in reading the whole document and letting me know what you think of it. *** I did not write this information, I am merely putting this file on this bboard since he said in the document, "Please make copies of this file and send it to your congressman, your senator, the attorney general of the United States, and the Supreme Court. Send it also to everyone you know." *** *** Please don't reply to me abou this because I know nothing about this information (I did read it, however). I guess contact the author if you have to, but not me or leave messages on the bboard because I mam interested in what other people think of this document. *** Well, here it is: The UFO Conspiracy * * Information concerning the U.S. government's cover-up of alien activity on Earth, according to Milton William Cooper Compiled by David E. Stewart 1301 W. 24th St. Apt. M20 Lawrence, KS 66046 1-913-749-5914 The UFO Conspiracy Table of Contents The Milton William Cooper Speech .............................. 3 Appendix A: Operation Majority .............................. 16 Appendix B: For More Information ............................ 23 Appendix C: Musings ......................................... 25 This document was created using Microsoft Word 5.0 on a Tandy 1000TL (IBM compatible) computer. The information con- tained herein comes mostly from the alt.conspiracy section of Usenet, a worldwide computer messaging network accessed via the University of Kansas Digital Equipment Corporation VAX 8650 com- puter system. Other information was obtained by the editor via personal phone calls and other research. The Milton William Cooper Speech Editor's note: What follows is a transcript of a 45-minute lec- ture given by Milton William Cooper on November 17, 1989, at the "Whole Life Expo" in Los Angeles, Calif. His speech was tran- scribed word-for-word from a microcassette recording. "For those of you who don't know who I am, I was raised in a military family. My family, my ancestors, since they came to this country, have been government people. We have served in the military, we have been patriots, we have fought in all the wars, we care about this country and believe in the constitution of the United States. We know, as many people don't know, that the Con- stitution of the United States of America is the United States of America! And that's why we've always been ready to do the things needed to preserve and protect it. "When I left home I went into the Air Force, the Strategic Air Command. As a child I'd heard stories from my father and pi- lots, other pilots, my father was a pilot, about Foo Fighters, UFOs, strange craft that were not made on this Earth. And as a kid, you hear that in passing, and it's neat, and you giggle about it, and you go out and play 'Space Man,' and you forget it. "When I was in the Air Force I met men who had participated in alien crashed-craft recoveries. Now this intrigued me, it in- terested me, but it was usually after quite a few bottles of beer that these stories would come out, and sometimes the next morning I couldn't remember what the heck the guy said. "When I left the Air Force I went into the Navy, and this is where everything began to happen for me. I had originally in- tended to just go from service to service and do something that very few people have ever done before. I was a very adventurous, very crazy ... young man, and I thought that that would be a pretty exciting life. I volunteered for submarines, and while on the submarine USS Tyroot, SS-416, on a transit between the Port- land/Seattle area and Pearl Harbor, which was our home port; the Pearl Harbor sub base, as the port lookout I saw a craft, saucer- shaped, the size of a Midway class carrier, aircraft carrier, for those of you who don't know how big that is; it's huge, come up out of the water approximately two and a half nautical miles off the port bow, which is about 45 degrees to the left of the pointy end of the submarine. It tumbled slowly on its own axis, and went up into the clouds. It appeared to be moving slowly to me at a distance of two and a half nautical miles, but in reality it was moving pretty fast because it came up out of the water, did a few tumbles, and it was gone! "I then reported it to the officer of the deck. I didn't tell him what it was that I saw because my Daddy didn't raise no fools and in case nobody else saw it I didn't want to be the only looney on board the ship. So I asked the officer of the deck to help me cover that area, and he did, which is common for officers and lookouts to help each other while on bridge watch because they all hang together if something bad happens. After a few seconds of watching, the same craft, or another craft exactly like it, came down out of the clouds, tumbled again on its own axis, and went into the water. Ensign Ball, who was the officer of the deck, was literally shocked! What could I say? Seaman Dejeralimo, who was the starboard lookout, had also witnessed this, and Ensign Ball called the captain to the bridge who was followed by the chief quartermaster who brought a 35MM camera, and we watched for between seven and 10 minutes the same craft, or different craft that looked exactly alike, enter and leave the water. It was an incredible show. I don't know if they knew we were there, or if they even cared, but the craft did not glow, they were metal, they were machines without a doubt, they were obviously intelligently guided, they were huge, and having been in the Air Force and the Navy and knowing what it takes, I knew without a doubt, and know it today, that that machine was not made on the face of this earth. Because there's nothing that man can make, that can fly through the air at a speed like that, tum- ble on its own axis, and enter the water and effectively fly be- neath the sea. "If you've ever been aboard an airplane and then gone aboard a submarine, I know there's probably some of you in this room who have visited a submarine at one time or another, you can readily see just without even any of the technicalities involved how dif- ficult such a thing would be to do. Where would it be built, that size? It was absolutely incredible. It changed my life be- cause then all the stories that I'd heard all my life I knew were true, and I began seeing the world in a different light. "It wasn't long after that I was trained by Naval security in intelligence. I was sent to Vietnam. I was assigned as a pa- trol boat captain, first in DaNang harbor, given a crew, given a multi-million dollar patrol boat. My job was to gather intelli- gence from the people who lived around the harbor and the fisher- men who transited the harbor, and maintain the safety and secu- rity of the harbor and the shipping. After about five months I was sent up North to the DMZ, to a place called Qua Vieaf [sp], on the Tacan [sp] river. Our base camp was at the river mouth. We were only three miles south of the North Vietnamese border and our job was to patrol the Tacan river from the river mouth to Dang Ha [sp], and then up the Quang Tree [sp] cutoff to Quang Tree city, again to get to know the people on the bank, gather intelligence, and to patrol every night and maintain the safety and security of the river and the river traffic. "It was while there that I discovered that there was a tremendous amount of UFO and alien activity in Vietnam. It was always reported in official messages as 'enemy helicopters.' Now any of you who know anything about the Vietnam war know that the North Vietnamese did not have any helicopters, especially after our first couple of air raids into North Vietnam. Even if they had they would not have been so foolish as to bring them over the DMZ because that would have insured their demise. Our troops were fired on occasionally by these 'enemy helicopters,' enemy troops were fired on occasionally by these 'enemy helicopters,' and occasionally people would disappear. And on one instance that I know for sure at least one entire village disappeared one night because of alien activity. The reason they used the term 'enemy helicopters' in messages and dispatches was that in Viet- nam you could be overrun at any time, no matter where you where. They did not bring crypto encoding equipment into Vietnam, I'm talking about the machinery. What we did is we had crypto ta- bles, and once we every 24 hours those codes would be no good. So that's what we used. We also, because of the inability to use crypto transmitting equipment, had to devise code words such as 'enemy helicopters.' "When I left Vietnam I was eventually attached to the head- quarters staff of the Commander in Chief of the United States Pa- cific Fleet at Macalappa, [sp] Hawaii, which is a little hill overlooking Pearl Harbor, it's a beautiful white building up there, and I was specifically attached to the Intelligence Brief- ing Team of the Commander in Chief of the United States Pacific Fleet. "It was during this tour of duty that, in the course of my duties, documents were placed in my hands that were so unbeliev- able and so incredible that it took me quite a while to adjust to the fact that what I was seeing was real. Now for those of you who don't understand how I could come to see this information, let me give you a little short course in security clearance and the need to know and how you get to see classified information if you're in the military or in the government, it doesn't matter which, the rules are the same. "No. 1, you need a security clearance, and you've got to have clearance at the level that the information you want to see is classified at. In this instance it was classified 'Top Se- cret, Magic, Restricted Information,' which I came to find out later is the highest security classification in the Nation. To get that type of clearance, all you have to have is a Federal Bu- reau of Investigation background check, which takes about six months and they send federal agents to your home, to your old schools, to all your teachers, to your friends, to everybody you put down on your security clearance forms, to all your old ad- dresses, your neighbors, everybody that you've worked for, and it's embarrassing because they don't tell them what they're checking on. They just show them their identification and start asking questions and that's when you find out who's your friend and who's not, because a lot of people get scared and think, 'Bill just robbed a bank and I'm not talking to him anymore.' "Now once you get that it's called a 'B.I.' and for those of you who have received a copy of my service record look on the first page, the DD-214 where it says 'Security Clearance,' you will see the term 'B.I.' That's a 'Bureau of Investigation' clearance. Now at that point, you have the clearance for every- thing including Top Secret and above. What determines what you get to see is your need to know, and the job that you have deter- mines what your need to know is. "I was assigned to the Intelligence Briefing Team of the Commander in Chief of the United States Pacific Fleet, who had to know everything concerning his area of operations which was one half of the Earth's surface; the Indian ocean, the Pacific ocean, and all the land masses in between. Believe it or not, if we go to war, if we ever go to war, it's the United States Navy that strikes the first blow and attempts to keep the enemy at bay while we can get ourselves together, at least historically. Nu- clear weapons have kind of done away with that concept, but mili- tary commanders like to talk about it anyway. "Because of this, and you have no conception of the amount of material and information that an area commander has to know; it's unbelievable, and he has to keep track of this, he has to keep on top of it. He has to know what's happening; he has to make the right decisions. Because it's almost humanly impossible for anyone to do that, they have what's called a briefing team, and it's our job to make sure that he has the correct informa- tion, all the time, on a 24-hour basis. And every morning, be- tween 8 and 9 a.m., we would give a briefing which covered every- thing that happened in the previous 24 hours, and everything scheduled to happen in the next 24 hours, and all the pertinent intelligence reports that we had received since the last briefing that he needed to know and that his staff members needed to know. Occasionally we would get messages marked 'Top Secret, Magic, Re- stricted Information,' and it would be coded in such a way that all you had were answers to questions which you didn't know what the questions were so you really didn't know what the message was all about. "But eventually I found myself in possession, holding two documents; one called 'Project Grudge,' another one called 'Operation Majority.' Project Grudge contained the history of alien involvement since around 1936, and it began talking about Germany's involvement with a crashed disk that they had recovered in 1936 and were attempting to duplicate the technology. They were not successful despite what all these Nazi hunters want to tell you. If they had been successful, we would not have won the war, because you cannot beat those weapons! You cannot out fly those craft, you can't even think about it with conventional air- craft. If Germany had been successful, we would now have a Ger- man flag up in front of this podium. "They did make some headway. When we went into Punta Mundy [sp] we captured documents, we got some scientists, we got some hardware. The Russians also got some documents, some scientists, and some hardware. It wasn't until 1947 that we were able to capture a craft, a whole craft, not all together but it was ev- erything. And that occurred near the city of Roswell, New Mex- ico. There were dead aliens recovered from the craft. In Pro- ject Grudge I saw photographs of these dead aliens, of the craft; I saw photographs of live aliens; I saw photographs of autopsies, internal organs; I saw photographs of the alien designated 'E.B.' [or Ebe], which was held in captivity from 1949 until June 2, 1952, when he died. I saw the history of what they had been able to at that time put together, from incidents in the 1800s, which involved aliens and their craft. "I saw the names of projects. I saw a project that was to fly recovered alien craft that had been recovered intact and un- damaged, and some of them were recovered intact and undamaged, and how that happened I have no idea. It was called 'Project Redlight,' and first was conducted from the Tonopah test range in the Nevada test sight and then was moved to a specially built area, ordered built by president Eisenhower, called 'Area-51,' code named 'Dreamland,' in the Groom [sp] dry lake area of the Nevada test sight, by secret executive order. It doesn't exist officially, if you ask anyone, or if you write letters to the government they will tell you it doesn't exist. However if you go out there at several places and see it, fly outside the bound- aries and look down and see it, you know it's there, but accord- ing to the government it doesn't exist. "The project to fly, test fly these craft, was ongoing until sometime in 1962 when a craft blew up not far from the test sight, in the air, and the explosion was seen over a three-state area. The pilots were killed, they had no idea what had happened or why the craft blew up, but they put Project Redlight on hold until a later date when the aliens supplied us with three craft and personnel to help us learn how to fly these craft. That pro- ject is ongoing, and we now have not only alien craft that we are flying, we have craft we have built, using the captured technol- ogy, and some of the UFOs that people report seeing in the United States, and maybe even elsewhere, are flown by United States per- sonnel. "That may come as a shock to you. We have technology way beyond the limits of what we have been told. A lot of our devel- opment technologically, since the end of World War II, has been due to the exchange of technology which occurs in the area called 'Area-51' on a regular basis ... ongoing. "When James Oberth, Professor Oberth retired, many of you don't know who he is ... not too many space people in here. Pro- fessor Oberth was probably one of the greatest rocket scientists and space commentators that ever lived. When he retired, the government gave him a special award, there was a press confer- ence, all kinds of ceremony, and when he got up to speak he said, 'Gentlemen,' and I quote Professor Oberth, he said, 'Gentlemen, we cannot take credit for all the technological developments that we have had in the last decade. We have had help,' and that's where he stopped. "One of the reporters raised his hand and said, 'Professor Oberth, can you tell us what other country helped us?' "He said, 'It was those little guys from out in space,' and then he got down and would not comment any further. Now this oc- curred in 1959. I can go on and on, but time doesn't allow it. "I will tell you ladies and gentlemen that there are all kinds of things going on all the time, we are making rapid progress in exposing this. Since I have begun talking, people have been coming out of the woodwork at a rapid rate, who know and have pieces of this puzzle, and are helping us to put it to- gether, because I don't have all the answers. I saw an awful lot of material, I have remembered an awful lot of it, I have proba- bly, in my remembering, made some mistakes, and I guarantee you they're minor ones, if I have. "We have just recently, for those of you who didn't believe that the Jason Society of the Jason Scholars, the secret group, existed, we now have a letter from the Pentagon, with 51 names of the Jason Scholars, an admission from the Pentagon that they hold the highest security clearances in the nation, an admission from the Pentagon that they hold the protocol rank of Rear Admiral, and are treated as such on any military installation or in any government office. There are six Nobel Prize winners on that list, there are the elite of the elite of the scientific world, they are the only ones who really know the truth about the tech- nology today and about the real science of physics, because the one that we're being taught all the time ... If you send your kids to college to learn physics you're wasting your money be- cause they're teaching them stuff that doesn't work, it's not true, it's not real. Gravity is not what we think it is. There is a Unified Theory! We already know what it is; it's what makes these craft work. It's absolutely incredible what's going on. "How many of you keep up with Billy Goodman's show on KVEG out of Las Vegas? For those of you who don't, I would try tuning in on any night between 10 p.m. and 1 a.m. It's 840 on your AM dial, and the subject every night are those subjects that no other media person in the United States will touch with a 10-foot pole, every single night except Saturday night. It's the only show that you can call in and talk to another caller, you've got three minutes to say whatever you want to say as long as you don't cuss or swear or slander anyone, and every night they're helping to expose this. "When John Lear and I first said what was going on out at Groom Lake everybody said, 'You're nuts, there's nothing going on out at Groom Lake!' The listeners of the Billy Goodman radio show put together an excursion and went up to Groom Lake and they all, ever since, every night, they go up there and watch them test fly the alien craft ... every night! The first night they had 100 people there. And 100 people saw four alien craft fly, doing things that no airplane and no helicopter can do. Now they don't tell us anymore that there's nothing happening at Groom Lake. What they tell us now is there's no such thing as aliens, it's all government secret projects. That's OK because we'll prove that wrong too eventually, it just takes a while. Because where we were ... it's not where we're at, and I'm really happy about that. "Now, if you want to see what's happening right now, keep watching your movies, keep watching your television commercials, your alien programs on television, read Whitley Strieber's Majestic, which is a part of the contingency plan called 'Majestic' to test the reaction of the population to the presence of aliens on the Earth. And I have just finished my study of Whitley Strieber's book Majestic, and I'm going to tell you right now that most of the documents in there, that he says are fiction, are real documents that came right out of Project Grudge. It is part of the government's campaign to leak informa- tion out in ways that they can always deny that it's real. There's only one thing wrong with the information in that book, the stories of the characters in there I know nothing about. What I'm talking about are the supposed government documents that he has in that book. I'm telling you tonight they're real. Those are some of the same documents that I saw in Project Grudge back between 1970 and 1973, and where we have wondered before, now we know that Whitley Strieber is working for the government. And we had a suspicion anyway because in the front of his book he states that he got information and was helped by the research team of Moore, Shanderey, and Friedman. William Moore has pub- licly admitted on July 1 that he is an agent of the United States Government, and we know that the others are too. "This is going to come out, and the reason they're doing it the way they're doing it is they know eventually you're going to find out that it's all true and real. They're desensitizing you so that you're not shocked, so that there's no collapse of soci- ety as we know it, so that the religious structure doesn't fall to pieces, so that the stock market doesn't go crazy, because these were their original fears. Now, there's nothing we can do about the last one because it's already happened, there will be a segment of the population that worships the aliens, even though they're no different than us; they're just from somewhere else, and they may look a little different. They are not gods. But there are already people worshiping the aliens and they predicted this would happen when they slapped the secret stamp all over all this stuff. "You know, there's really nothing wrong with what's been happening except for three things. [Cooper forgot to mention the third thing, or was sidetracked, or included it into the second thing.] "No. 1, when they decided to keep it secret they needed to finance it, they couldn't tell the public, so they couldn't tell Congress. They decided to finance it with the sale, importation and sale, of drugs. Now in the documents that I read, in Opera- tion Majority, it specifically stated that when George Bush was the president and CEO of Sapata [sp] Oil, he, in conjunction with the CIA, organized the first large-scale drug importation into this country from South and Central America by fishing boat, to the offshore oil platforms of Sapata Oil, and then from there into the beach, thus bypassing all Customs inspections and law- enforcement inspections of any kind. They are still bringing in drugs, to a limited extent, in this manner. Another manner is by CIA contract aircraft which, one of their bases of landing is Homestead [sp] Air Force Base in Florida. We have affidavits from air controllers who have vectored the planes in, who have made sure that they're not interfered with in any way. We have affidavits from personnel at Homestead Air Force Base who say the planes have been met by Jeb Bush, who is George Bush's son. We have affidavits from people who work in the Gulf of Mexico, in the offshore oil business, that yes indeed, the drugs are coming in, at least some of them, from the offshore oil platforms." From the audience came a clear statement, "Just say no?" "Pardon? Right! Just Say No! Well that's what we're going to do ladies and gentlemen with your help. We are going to say no, no more! And you have to do it, you have to act. You either have to act or watch your country go down the tubes. "Now, that's one of the things that's wrong. The next thing that's wrong is, to keep the secret, they killed a lot of people who tried to leak it out. And if I hadn't done it the way that I did it, you wouldn't be seeing me anywhere standing or walking on this Earth now. They killed President Kennedy and during the workshop, for those of you haven't seen the tape, I will show you, on the tape, who shot the president and why. Between '70 and '73, in Operation Majority it stated verbatim that President Kennedy ordered MJ-12 to cease the importation and sale of drugs to the American people, that he ordered them to implement a plan to reveal the presence of aliens to the American people within the following year. His assassination was ordered by the policy committee of the Vilderbergers. MJ-12 implemented the plan and carried it out in Dallas. It involved agents of the CIA, Divi- sion-5 of the FBI, the Secret Service, and the Office of Naval Intelligence. President Kennedy was killed by the driver of his car, his name was William Greer, he used a recoilless, electri- cally operated, gas-powered assassination pistol that was spe- cially built by the CIA to assassinate people at close range. It fired an explosive pellet which injected a large amount of shell- fish poison into the brain, and that is why, in the documents, it stated that President Kennedy's brain was removed. If you've studied the case, you will find that indeed his brain disap- peared. The reason for that is so that they would not find the particles of the exploding pellet or the shellfish poison in his brain which would have proved conclusively that Lee Harvey Oswald was not the assassin. In fact, Lee Harvey Oswald never fired a shot, he was the patsy." Mr. Cooper paused briefly, and a lady in the audience asked the obvious question, "Why haven't you been assassinated?" "If they were to kill me right now, what would you think?" Cooper posed. "That it's the truth," several people chimed. "I've got them right where I want them. If they touch me, everyone who has ever heard me talk is going to be absolutely en- raged and is going to know that everything I've said is true. As long as they don't touch me there's going to be some of you who are always going to be wondering. But eventually we're going to bring enough proof out, and if you're here during the workshop you're going to see an awful lot of it that's going to prove to you that it's true. It's real. And it's happening! "Okay, I've tried to cover a lot of stuff, just briefly, be- cause there's no time in 45 minutes to get into anything very much." Mr. Cooper then announced the scheduled workshop session the following day in which tangible proofs could be seen but the transcriber was unable to attend. He then opened up the floor to questions and answers. A muffled question was barely heard coming from the front of the room, which in essence asked, "What about all the people in the press and others who were in Dallas and who saw the assassi- nation? Couldn't they tell where the shot came from? Why didn't they come forward? There must have been plenty." "There was, we know that there was at least 18 who were all murdered within two years of the event. The odds of that happen- ing are 1 in 300,000 trillion," Cooper replied. Again a muffled question, "Why did the driver have to shoot Kennedy?" "Because the other fools missed! There were a total of three shots fired at President Kennedy, one hit him in the throat and didn't kill him and two of them hit John Connelly [sp]. The one that was fired from the grassy knoll hit the president in the throat. The other two shots came from directly behind the limou- sine, not the school book depository building, and hit Governor Connelly. Governor Connelly, in intelligence community circles, is known as a 'can do' man, because he took two hits and still kept his mouth shut." "How is it that the driver, sitting on the front, left-hand side of the car was able to blow off the right side of Kennedy's brain when the bullet actually entered in, and it would have been virtually impossible ..." another person asked. Mr. Cooper seized the gist of his question and injected, "For those of you who have been listening to all these talk show hosts, whose job it is to be a talk show host, and who have not done any legitimate research into this, if you come to the work- shop, I will show you, on the tape, how it was done. You will see that Kennedy was, in fact slumped over against Jackie, his head was turned [this direction], it was very simple, it was easy and you will see it with your own eyes." Another muffled, off-mike question from a member of the au- dience inquiring why no one else had come forward with the infor- mation Mr. Cooper was disseminating, and why those who knew it had kept it secret for so long was quickly answered, "It hasn't been, I'm talking about it now. Bill English was talking about it eight years ago, but everybody laughed at Bill English. John Lear's been talking about it for three years, and everybody laughed at him. Now there's so many people have been talking about it, people are starting to listen, and it's about time. Because it's about time we that we quit being fools, and that's exactly what they think we are, and we prove it to them every day." The next question dealt with the alien technology and asked in essence, "Hasn't any one else [other than the government] come up with the energy technology that the aliens have?" to which Mr. Cooper answered, "There's been quite a few people who've come up with it and they've all been stopped, and they'll all continue to be stopped. Because once you have it you have free energy. Once you have free energy they no longer have power over you. You un- derstand? That's why they stop it." Another question asking, "In the film of the assassination, which was examined greatly by experts, why didn't they conclude that Kennedy's driver shot him?" to which Cooper asked, "Examined by whom greatly? Most of the film that you can purchase has that segment cut out, and you can always tell it by the person running in the background, they'll run up to here ... all of a sudden they'll be down here ... running. You will see in most of the clips that you've ever seen on television, or in the movies, or that you're able to get your hands on, you'll see William Greer start to turn like this ..." then a muffled comment from the au- dience, then Cooper answered, "That's because they clipped it out! And on a lot of them, I'll bet you most of you, every time you've seen the clip on television, never looked at the driver anyway. If you're really honest with yourself, and with me, you know your eyes were right on Kennedy." A woman asked if any of the alien technology was being used in present-day military equipment and was answered, "Yes, there's a lot of alien technology contained in the Stealth bomber, that's right. The Stealth fighter was flying for 10 years before you even knew it existed." As the hour drew late another question, more clearly stated, was asked of Mr. Cooper, "Before you let us all out of here, there's a bunch of us here wondering what can we all do to help bring this all out?" A single word, "revolt," issued from several listeners si- multaneously, but Cooper responded, "Don't revolt. What you need to do is what you should have been doing all along. You need to get involved with your government. The first thing you need to do is purchase a copy of the Constitution, which I know that most of you don't have anywhere in your house, and if I were to go around this room and ask each person what the Constitution says, most of you couldn't tell me what the Constitution says from your grocery bill. And that's the truth! And that is your country! So if you don't know what your Constitution is you're dead al- ready, so the first thing you do is you get a copy of your Con- stitution. The second thing you do is you learn it! The third thing you do is you start calling your senators and your repre- sentatives, and the President of the United States and you start leaning on them, and you tell them, 'Unless you straighten up the government, and unless we start getting the truth, and I mean the whole truth, and no more of this baloney, this is the last job you're ever going to have, period. And I'll do everything in my power to make sure that comes true.' And then write them, fre- quently, saying the same thing. And then when they're in your area, in their area offices, take a little delegation and go see them, and make them understand that they're going to be living in poverty because they're not going to have a job anymore come election day. You see, the secret government may own the execu- tive branch, but you people, all of us, we own the Congress, and the Congress makes the laws, and the Congress can impeach the en- tire executive branch! You also have the right to petition the government for a redress of injuries. So you are powerful, you've just forgotten that you're powerful, you've forgotten that that vote that you haven't been doing every time election comes around, that vote has abdicated your power. That vote you did not cast abdicated your power and gave it to those who are sub- verting the Constitution and are ruining this country." A gentleman then asked, "What was traded to the aliens for their technology?" "People and animals," replied Cooper succinctly. Another man asked, "Is the Soviet Union in on any of this?" "The Soviet Union and the United States of America have been close allies since the end of World War II and have been closely participating in the secret space program all this time. The So- viets have the same thing we have, yes. What you see happening in the Soviet block right now is not the result of people stand- ing up and saying, 'We want to be free.' It's the result of the international bankers saying, 'You tear down these barriers, and you meet the West half way, give your people some freedom, the West is going to take some freedom away from their people so that we can put together a one-world economic system ... and have all the power. That's what's happening! If you don't believe it, stick around and watch it!" A dubious woman then asked, "Why was the shellfish poison necessary? A lot of his brain was blown off anyway." Cooper: "The shellfish poison? If you go to kill someone, one thing I've learned, I learned it real good, I learned it es- pecially good when I went to Vietnam; just because you shoot someone doesn't mean they're going to die. And if they don't die, they're going to be mad. And if they've got a gun, you're dead. So you want the first time to be the last time. So if you really want to kill somebody you don't play around. If you re- ally want to kill somebody ... you kill them, you don't play, you make sure that when you shoot them, they're dead. That way they can't hurt you, can't hurt you at all." Regrettably, the next question was totally unintelligible, but thankfully Mr. Cooper had a good public address system to am- plify his reply, "The first moon landing was May 22, 1962 ... or excuse me, that was the first landing on Mars. I'm sorry, May 22, 1962, was the winged probe that used a hydrozine propeller, flew around approximately three orbits and landed on May 22, 1962, was a joint United States/Russian endeavor. The first time that we landed on the moon was sometime during the ... probably middle 50s, because at the time when President Kennedy stated that he wanted a man to set foot on the moon by the end of the decade we already had a base there." "What about Mars?" came another quick question. "We have a base on Mars also," Cooper calmly replied. "When did that happen?" "I don't know the exact date but I know the project's name, it was 'Adam and Eve.'" "How long have you known about this?" "Well, I revealed it publicly for the first time on July 2, 1989, and within three weeks of the time I revealed it publicly, the government, to get the American people not to listen to me, came out and said that they planned to build a base on the moon and a colony on Mars. Now, three days previous to my speech, representatives from NASA said, 'We can never have a colony on Mars, it's impossible that there's a colony on Mars because Mars is a dead planet.' And it's not a dead planet, they've lied to you about Mars." "My name is Dave [unintelligible], I'm a representative of the Crystic Institute, and I'd like to know why it was that when we sent a representative down to your home, at your request, you failed to produce any documentation to substantiate your allega- tions." "In the first place it was not at my request, I have never contacted the Crystic Institute in my life. I was on the Carol Hemingway Show, she contacted the Crystic institute, she told Daniel Shehan [sp] that I had just said something about Bush and drugs on her show. He called me and told me he wanted to send an investigator, in fact he told me to even help the investigator because he was new at the job, his name was Wayne Nelson, he is a very good gentleman, he stayed at my house for two days, slept overnight on my couch, I gave him everything I had. I never told Daniel Shehan that I had any documents and I never told Wayne Nelson that I had any documents. In fact what I told Wayne Nel- son, and I quote, 'Wayne, if I did have the documents I couldn't admit it and I don't know you from Adam, and I don't know Daniel Shehan from Adam and what makes you think I would give them to you.' Who am I going to give them to and how quick are they going to disappear, that was my thought. Wayne Nelson also came to my house with a stack of documents this thick already substantiating the presence of aliens and extraterrestrial craft on this planet, and they are keeping it a secret, because they're afraid somebody'll laugh at them and they'll loose their credibility. "We need some patriots in this country, not people trying to make a name for themselves, trying to expose some drug runners, because those are just the bag-men. The real crook is in the White House! And you can tell that to Daniel Shehan!" "Why didn't Jackie Kennedy report [the source of the lethal shot]?" asked another audience member. "Who's she going to tell? The Secret Service just killed her husband, and they're assigned to protect the president. Also, who had her children? The same Secret Service had her children at the time." "Wasn't the craft at Roswell, New Mexico, destroyed and all the aliens killed?" another young man asked. "All the aliens were dead but the craft was not completely destroyed, it was severely damaged yes." On an unrelated note an older gentleman asked, "Does that mean that Alternative-3 is true?" "Alternative-3 is absolutely true and so is Alternative-2." Then a man in his late 20s or early 30s raised his hand, said something unintelligible, and was apparently recognized by Mr. Cooper, who asked him to take the podium and address the au- dience. "What I said was that I thanked him [Cooper] very much for coming forward and saying something. A lot of my friends out here know that I was involved in the United States Special Forces, UFO Tracking and Research from the years 1971 to 1975. My name is Richard Murray, I was based out of the 71st Tac Con- trol Flight, McDill Air Force Base, Tampa, Florida. We were 'Mobile Radar Command,' that was combat and war ready. We could be loaded on aircraft within an hour and many times were taken into areas [to] set up radar. A lot of times we were set up around Egland [sp] Air Force Base because that's where they have the 'Altered Temperature Weather Control,' where they can test various aircraft for their shrinkage and their dimension change during altered temperature. So, you know, I was told to shut up twice in 1982 and they finally threatened my parents life so I stayed quiet, and, that's when Wendel Stevens was taken off the streets ... Just like that! And I hid for quite awhile, and de- cided to come back out when I heard that you're [Cooper] of such high rank as you were, and I felt just in saying that your cre- dentials are true, and that what you have to say, everything you've said here today, I've heard before behind closed doors. And you've really tied the link for me to the Kennedy killing. And there's a few more links that have to go on with the Columbia Cartel and the money laundering. I think there's more than one cartel involved, and they're shutting one of them down so one can maintain a power, it just seems to be the way it works." A muffled question then came from someone in the audience regarding the person referred to as "Colonel Stevens." "Uh, Colonel Stevens is out of jail now," replied Murray who was quickly asked another question I couldn't hear to which he answered, "I sure hope to hell so, he is a wonderful man, and I give him my utmost respect, and it was one of the saddest days in my life to see what happened to him happen to him. But I don't care what they say about Wendel Stevens, in my heart you can't discredit that man to me. I don't care who the hell you are. I won't listen to it, I don't give a shit if he was screwing ba- bies. You know ... that doesn't ... he's not that kind of a man, I don't care what you say, I know him personally." The lecture was then essentially over. The "Alternative-2 and Alternative-3" that were referred to briefly are (just guessing now) two government contingency plans to 1. Declare Martial Law and invalidate the Constitution on the premise that a terrorist group had entered the country with a Nuclear weapon with plans to detonate it in a major city. All dissidents would be rounded up and placed in concentration camps and the press and media would be nationalized. All this if the information becomes public before they want it to or if the aliens attempt a takeover, and 2. Another contingency plan to contain or delay the release of this information, the details of which I am probably wrong about anyway. Mr. Cooper is a man who appears to be in his late 40s, of medium height and weight, and was dressed casually during the lecture. His hairline was receding slightly, and he carried him- self with confidence and purpose. Bill Cooper, as he was called by several in attendance, is not a professional speaker. His presentation lacked the polish of repeated deliveries which all the other lectures had during the Expo, but what it lacked in fine tuning was easily made up for in its content. Appendix A: Operation Majority OPERATION MAJORITY FINAL RELEASE THERE WILL BE NO CORRECTIONS TO THIS FILE (C) COPYRIGHT 1989 BY MILTON WILLIAM COOPER ALL RIGHTS RESERVED YOU HAVE MY PERMISSION TO QUOTE FROM THIS INFORMATION IN PRESS RELEASES, PERIODICALS, AND SPEECHES. INCLUSION IN ANY OTHER MEDIA REQUIRES MY EXPRESS WRITTEN PERMIS- SION. This file contains the absolute true information regarding the alien presence on Earth and the U.S. Government's involvement with the aliens. This file contains only the information as I saw it and only my information. It does not contain any information from any other source. It was necessary for me to issue the information previous to this release in a manner which would deceive the government until someone was able to independently confirm my identity, my employ- ment, my service record, my intelligence background, the identity of the person to which I gave the information in 1972, his ac- knowledgment of the information and when it was given to him, that the information is correct, that I have not seen him since 1974, and that I have not communicated with him in any form since 1976. This was necessary because this file is my death warrant if MJ-12 continues to operate in a manner consistent with its his- tory. All in the last paragraph has been independently verified by two different people who have no connection with each other. I will only list one for obvious reasons. Tony Pelham, journalist Las Vegas Bullet 300 West Boston Las Vegas, Nevada 89102. The original information that I first released was not much MAJI that I was not a threat long enough to have independent ver- ification of the facts before I risked death. [TRANSMISSION GAR- BLED] I wish to make it absolutely clear that I do not consider myself a hero. I believe that most of you would do the same thing if you knew the truth. I gave an oath that I would uphold and protect the Constitu- tion of the United States of America and I take that oath very seriously. I am doing no more now than I did when I fought in Vietnam. I am doing my duty. Please make copies of this file and send it to your con- gressman, your senator, the attorney general of the United States, and the Supreme Court. Send it also to everyone you know. Attach copies of the Bill English file and John Lears file. Send anything else you may have which tends to support the information. I, Milton William Cooper, 1311 S. Highland #205, Fullerton, California, 92632, 1-714-680-9537, do solemnly swear that the in- formation contained in this file is true and correct to the best of my knowledge. I swear that I saw this information in 1972 in the perfor- mance of my duties as a member of the Intelligence Briefing Team of the Commander In Chief of the Pacific Fleet as a Petty Officer in the U.S. Navy. I swear that I underwent hypnotic regression in order to make the information as accurate as possible. I swear that I can and will take a lie detector test or any other test of any reputable person's choosing in order to confirm this information. I swear that I can and will undergo hypnotic regression con- ducted by any reputable and qualified doctor of any reputable person's choosing in order to confirm this information. I will not, however submit to any test or hypnosis by anyone who is now or has ever been connected with the government in any capacity for obvious reasons. The following is brief listing of everything that I person- ally saw and know from 1972 and does not contain any input from any other source whatsoever. MAJESTY was listed as the code word for the President of the United States for communications concerning this information. OPERATION MAJORITY is the name of the operation responsible for every aspect, project, and consequence of alien presence on Earth. GRUDGE contains 16 volumes of documented information col- lected from the beginning of the United States investigation of Unidentified Flying Objects (UFOs) and Identified Alien Crafts (IACs). The project was financed by CIA confidential funds (nonappropriated) and money from the illicit drug trade. Partic- ipation in the illegal drug trade was justified in that it would identify and eliminate the weak elements of our society. The purpose of Project Grudge was to collect all scientific, techno- logical, medical and intelligence information from UFO/IAC sight- ings and contacts with alien life forms. This orderly file of collected information has been used to advance the United States Space Program. MJ-12 is the name of the secret control group. President Eisenhower commissioned a secret society known as THE JASON SOCIETY (JASON SCHOLARS) to sift through all the facts, evidence, technology, lies and deception and find the truth of the alien question. The society was made up of 32 of the most prominent men in the country in 1972 and the top 12 members were designated MJ-12. MJ-12 has total control over everything. They are desig- nated by the codes J-1, J-2, etc., all the way through the members of the Jason Society. The director of the CIA was appointed J-1 and is the Direc- tor of MJ-12. MJ-12 is responsible only to the President. MJ-12 runs most of the world's illegal drug trade. This was done to hide funding and thus keep the secret from the Congress and the people of the United States. It was justified in that it would identify and eliminate the weak elements of our society. The cost of funding the alien connected projects is higher than anything you can imagine. MJ-12 assassinated President Kennedy when he informed them that he was going to tell the public all the facts of the alien presence. He was killed by the Secret Service agent driving his car, and it is plainly visible in the film held from public view. A secret meeting place was constructed for MJ-12 in MARYLAND and it was described as only accessible by air. It contains full living, recreational, and other facilities for MJ-12 and the JASON SOCIETY. It is code named "THE COUNTRY CLUB." Only those with TOP SECRET/MAJIC clearance are allowed to go there. MAJI is the MAJORITY AGENCY FOR JOINT INTELLIGENCE. All information, disinformation, and intelligence is gath- ered and evaluated by this agency. This agency is responsible for all disinformation and oper- ates in conjunction with the CIA, NSA, and the Defense Intelli- gence Agency. This is a very powerful organization, and all alien projects are under its control. MAJI is responsible only to MJ-12. SIGMA is the project which first established communications with the aliens and is still responsible for communications. PLATO is the project responsible for diplomatic relations with the aliens. This project secured a formal treaty (illegal under the Con- stitution) with the aliens. The terms were that the aliens would give us technology. In return, we agreed to keep their presence on earth a se- cret, not to interfere in any way with their actions, and to al- low them to abduct humans and animals. The aliens agreed to furnish MJ-12 with a list of abductees on a periodic basis. MAJIC is the security classification and clearance of all alien connected material, projects, and information. MAJIC means MAJI Controlled. AQUARIUS is a project which compiled the history of alien presence and their interaction with Homo Sapiens upon this planet for the last 25,000 years and culminating with the Basque people who live in the mountainous country on the border of France and Spain and the Syrians. GARNET is the project responsible for control of all infor- mation and documents regarding this subject and accountability of the information and documents. PLUTO is a project to evaluate all UFO/IAC information per- taining to space tel [TRANSMISSION GARBLED] POUNCE is the project formed to recover all downed/crashed craft and aliens. REDLIGHT is the project to test fly recovered alien craft. It is conducted at AREA 51 (DREAMLAND) in Nevada. It was aided when the aliens gave us craft and helped us fly them. The initial project was somewhat successful in that we flew a recovered craft, but it blew up in the air, and the pilots were killed. The project was suspended at that time until the aliens agreed to help us. SNOWBIRD was established as a cover for project REDLIGHT. Several flying saucer type craft were built using conventional technology. They were unveiled to the press and flown in front of the press. The purpose was to explain accidental sightings or disclo- sure of REDLIGHT as having been the SNOWBIRD craft. LUNA is the alien base on the far side of the Moon. It was seen and filmed by the Apollo astronauts. A base, a mining operation using very large machines, and the very large alien craft described in sighting reports as MOTHER SHIPS exist there. NRO is the National Recon Organization based at Fort Carson, Colorado. It is responsible for security for all alien or alien craft connected projects. DELTA is the designation for the specific arm of the NRO, which is especially trained and tasked with security of these projects. JOSHUA is a project to develop a low frequency pulsed sound generating weapon. It was said that this weapon would be effective against the alien craft and beam weapons. EXCALIBUR is a weapon to destroy the alien underground bases. It is to be a missile capable of penetrating 1000 meters of Tuff/hard packed soil such as that found in New Mexico with no operational damage. Missile apogee not to exceed 30,000 feet AGL and impact must not deviate in excess of 50 meters from designated target. The device will carry a one-megaton nuclear warhead. ALIENS: There were four types of aliens mentioned in the papers. A LARGE NOSED GREY with whom we have the treaty, the GREY reported in abductee cases that works for the LARGE NOSED GREY, a blond human like type described as the NORDIC, a red haired human like type called the ORANGE. The home of the aliens were described as being a star in the Constellation of Orion, Barnards star, and Zeta Riticuli 1&2. I cannot remember even under hypnosis which alien belongs to which star. EBE is the name or designation given to the live alien cap- tured at the 1949 Roswell crash. He died in captivity. KRLL OR KRLLL OR CRLL OR CRLLL pronounced Crill or Krill was the hostage left with us at the first Holloman landing as a pledge that the aliens would carry out their part of the basic agreement reached during that meeting. KRLL gave us the foundation of the yellow book which was completed by the guests at a later date. KRLL became sick and was nursed by Dr. G. Mendoza who became the expert on alien biology and medicine. KRLL later died. His information was disseminated under the pseudonym O.H. Cril or Crill. GUESTS were aliens exchanged for humans who gave us the bal- ance of the yellow book. At the time I saw the information there were only three left alive. They were called (P&#'s) Alien Life Forms. [TRANSMISSION GARBLED] RELIGION The aliens claim to have created Homo Sapiens through hy- bridization. The papers said that RH-blood was proof of this. They further claimed to have created all four major reli- gions. They showed a hologram of the crucifixion of Christ which the government filmed. They claim that Jesus was created by them. ALIEN BASES exist in the four corners area of Utah, Col- orado, New Mexico, and Nevada. Six bases were described in the 1972 papers, all on Indian reservations and all in the four corners area. The base near Dulce was one of them. MURDER The documents stated that many military and government per- sonnel had been terminated (murdered without due process of law) when they had attempted to reveal the secret. CRAFT RECOVERIES The documents stated that many craft had been recovered. The early ones from Roswell, Aztec, Roswell again, Texas, Mexico, and other places. GENERAL DOOLITTLE made a prediction that one day we would have to reckon with the aliens, and the document stated that it appeared that General Doolittle was correct. ABDUCTIONS were occurring long before 1972. The document stated that humans and animals were being ab- ducted and or mutilated. Many vanished without a trace. They were taking sperm and ova samples, tissue, performed surgical operations, implanted a spherical device 40 to 80 mi- crons in size near the optic nerve in the brain and all attempts to remove it resulted in the death of the patient. The document estimated that one in every 40 people had been implanted. This implant was said to give the aliens total control of that human. CONTINGENCY PLAN SHOULD THE INFORMATION BECOME PUBLIC OR SHOULD THE ALIENS ATTEMPT A TAKEOVER. This plan called for a public announcement that a terrorist group had entered the United States with an atomic weapon. It would be announced that the terrorists planned to deto- nate the weapon in a major city. Martial law would be declared and all persons with implants would be rounded up along with all dissidents and would be placed into concentration camps. The press, radio, and TV would be nationalized and con- trolled. Anyone attempting to resist would be arrested or killed. CONTINGENCY PLAN TO CONTAIN OR DELAY RELEASE OF INFORMATION This plan called for the use of MAJESTIC TWELVE as a disin- formation ploy to delay and confuse the release of information should anyone get close to the truth. It was selected because of the similarity of spelling and the similarity to MJ-12. It was designed to confuse memory and to result in a fruit- less search for material that does not exist. SOURCE OF MATERIAL CONTAINED IN THE DOCUMENTS WHICH I SAW The source of the material was an Office of Naval Intelli- gence counter-intelligence operation against MJ-12 in order for the Navy to find out the truth of what was really going on. The Navy (at that time or at least the Navy that I worked for) were not participants in any of this. The different services and the government conduct this type of operation against each other all the time. The result of this operation was that the Navy cut them- selves in for a piece of the action (technology) and control of some projects. As you can see this file is only a little different from my previous file. Only some names were scrambled previously to confuse the government long enough for someone to verify that what I have said is the truth. I have added information in this file that puts me in abso- lute danger. I have sent a copy of this file to people all over the coun- try and will continue to do so. Please get this file into as many hands as you can and maybe that will protect me but I doubt it. HISTORY WILL BE THE JUDGE OF ME AND THIS INFORMATION, AND I HAVE NO FEAR OF THAT JUDGEMENT. I SWEAR THAT THIS INFORMATION IS TRUE AND CORRECT TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE. I wish to thank all those people who have aided me in reach- ing this point and for their patience and understanding. I owe you all more than I can ever repay. Finally, it does not matter who is right and who is wrong or if a project name is in the wrong place. It does not matter who is working for whom or what is really what. It should be obvious by now that something sinister and ter- ribly wrong is going on involving the government and the UFO phe- nomenon. We must all band together and expose it now. I have done my part in the best manner that I could. I can add nothing else except my testimony in Congress or a court of law that what I saw and have written in this file is true and that I saw it. Everything in my previous* file that does not conflict with this file is true and correct to the best of my knowledge and some of it is from sources and research. You may combine the files to get the entire picture. Throw out only that information that conflicts with that contained in this file. There will be no further additions or corrections to this information either now or in the future. My file is complete and stands to be judged by history. Sometime in the future the exact papers that I saw will sur- face, and you will all see this exact information contained within them. Milton William Cooper Jan. 10, 1989 Appendix B: For More Information Cooper's home address and phone number: 1311 S. Highland #205 Fullerton, Calif. 92632 1-714-680-9537 That phone number connects you to an anonymous answering machine. This information was taken from the Bill Cooper answering com- puter on 1-213-281-8222. For materials and bibliography, send $2 (no mention made of to whom you should make out the check) and a 45-cent self-addressed stamped envelope to: 19744 Beach Blvd. Suite #301 Huntington Beach, Calif. 92648 To talk to someone about ordering or available materials, call Stan Barrington at 1-805-948-1255. He'll even call you back. Here's what he had to offer as per my phone conversation with him on Feb. 27, 1990: The real Kennedy assassination tape, $18. This is the unedited Zapruder film that clearly shows the driver killing JFK. On VHS tape. Video of Cooper speech and workshop from Sedona, Ariz., $32. This is a videotaped speech and workshop from Cooper that also shows the Kennedy tape (not very clearly, though). I think this is basically the same deal as the above tran- script. On VHS tape. "Secret Government," $12. Details, in 28 pages, the workings of the secret subgovernment in the U.S. since 1947. "Operation Majority," $12. Details the goings on and structure of Operation Majority, the people who run all UFO-related ac- tivities. "Jason Society," $12. List of 51 scientists, last updated in 1987, who work for Operation Majority. The group is still trying to find the last three scientists who are Jason Soci- ety members. For any of the above, send a check to: Stan Barrington 2059 E. Ave. I #11 Lancaster, Calif. 93535 Barrington says that the target date for one-world government is 1992. To invite Cooper to speak or be on TV, call Jeff Patterson or Scott Reid at 1-213-657-8004. Cooper's manager is Michael Callan, at 1-213-550-8368. Cooper was in Atlanta on Feb. 25. For information call Sam Matthews at 1-404-435-4233. This is the journalist whom Cooper mentions in his Operation Ma- jority file. This person supposedly can verify the facts: Tony Pelham Las Vegas Bullet 300 West Boston Las Vegas, Nevada 89102 For the book Alien Magic by William Hamilton, which has all kinds of pictures from a secret lab, write: Robert Girard P.O. Box 83183 Stone Mountain, Ga. 30083-0023 1-404-297-4624 Appendix C: Musings There is some thought that the U.S. Air Force, in conjunc- tion with the Canadians, has standing orders to deny any UFO sightings to the public. Timothy Good, in his book Above Top Secret, states: "Cooperation between the United States and Canada in the report- ing of UFOs was laid down, for example, in the Canadian-United States Communications Instructions for Reporting Vital Intelli- gence Sightings (CIRVIS) JANAP 146 (E), issued in March 1966 by the Joint Chiefs of Staff as well as the Canadian Defense Staff. This publication lists instructions for the reporting of 'information of vital importance to the security of the United States of America and Canada and their forces, which in the opin- ion of the observer, requires very urgent defensive and/or inves- tigative action by the U.S. and/or Canadian armed forces.' Sight- ings within the scope of JANAP 146 include 'Unidentified Flying Objects' as distinct from 'Hostile of unidentified single air- craft or formations of aircraft,' and there are lengthy and elab- orate instructions for reporting UFOs" (Good, 192). And later he states: "Because of reports like these [UFOs], airline pilots became subject to military restrictions contained in a Joint Army-Navy-Air Force Publication (JANAP), drawn up by the Joint Communications-Electronics Committee, and promulgated by the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and could thus find themselves li- able to a prison term of up to 10 years and/or a fine of $10,000 if they discussed their sightings with the media or public" (Good, 283). * * * Stan Barrington offers a document about "Operation Majority, which concerns the dealings of MJ-12. The following discussion, taken from the alt.conspiracy section of Usenet, focuses on the validity of those documents: "What is the latest status of the MJ-12 documents (concerning authenticity)? I know that Klass did his usual de- bunking job, but also read that Friedman produced all the sup- porting evidence Klass had demanded (similar typefaces in use on other documents of the same era, etc.). Has the U.S. Government taken a formal position on the MJ-12 documents? What evidence, pro and con, has been produced on the authenticity issue since their release. What are the details of the release? Any and all information will be appreciated. Thanks." The reply was: "I don't know about the U.S. Government's position, but Klass has done a pretty good job of showing that there is at least some fraud in the papers. In particular, he has shown that the supposed signature of Harry Truman on one of the critical papers is identical to the signature on another document in the National Archives, except that it's (if I recall correctly) 3.6 percent larger. It is impossible for two signatures to be identical unless one is a photographic copy of the other, and interestingly, most copying machines do a very small expansion of what they copy to prevent edge effects--a blow-up of exactly 1.2 percent. So it would appear this supposed signature is actually a third-generation photocopy of Truman's signature. Handwriting experts have confirmed this. I believe it's written up in the current (Spring 1990) Skeptical Inquirer, but I can't find my copy at the moment so I can't say for sure." I don't know who Klass or Friedman are, (although Friedman may be the same person that was mentioned as a helper in Majestic by Whitley Strieber, and also mentioned as a government official in the speech) but the Skeptical Inquirer is a respected paranor- mal debunking newspaper put out by James "the Amazing" Randi. It also seems to me that the idea that Truman's signature is a photocopy of another one in the National Archives is a bit odd. There must be thousands of Truman signature in the Archives, and thinking that someone could find the one that exactly matched a 3.6 percent enlargement is laughable (but then again, those same people find the idea of a huge UFO cover-up laughable). * * * Whitley Strieber is a strange character in this whole af- fair. He is the writer of Wolfen and The Howling, two horror novels. Lately, he turned to writing about UFOs. His first book on the subject, Communion, deals with his personal experiences with abduction by an unknown intelligence (Strieber always tries to avoid the word "alien," so he can leave the options open that these are humans that are traveling through time or even an unknown earthly intelligence). His second book, Transformation, is not as familiar to me, but I have heard that it is more of the same as Communion, except that it is less well- supported and deals with a sort of religion of the unknown. Strieber contends in that book that the "others" (as he calls them) gave him a sketchy design for an anti-gravity motor that relies on rotating magnets. His third book is Majestic. Milton William Cooper mentions it in his speech. This book follows the Cooper speech closely in many regards; in fact, sometimes it seems like one is stealing from the other because they are so close. Strieber writes this book as fiction, but at the end there is a section in which he says that the book is based on truth and that the government is hiding information from the public. He insists that this truth must be brought out. However, Cooper says that Strieber is work- ing for the government. He offers some proof to this claim, but he doesn't really say why the government would hire Strieber to write Majestic, or whether he was hired before he wrote Communion and Transformation. All Cooper says is that Strieber is testing the waters, leaking the information in a way that the government could deny. I think that if Strieber works for the government, then it is mostly likely because the government thinks that people will not believe anything he writes about UFOs, given his history of writing horror. Thus, the government has Strieber write some- thing that is based on truth, and everyone thinks it is coming from such a bad source that it must be false. * * * This from Keith Rowell in Oregon: "You folks interested in Strieber's claims should check out the book Report on Communion (Morrow, 1989) by Ed Conroy. "Conroy is a San Antonio-based freelance reporter who wrote some early articles for the local newspaper and then continued to explore and investigate till he ended up with a book. He basi- cally concludes that Strieber's claims are true as far as we now understand the UFO phenomenon, which is very far from adequate at this time. (The scholarly and scientific establishment has yet to honestly and openly embrace the problem of the UFO. Conroy's book is opening the way for the investigative media people, though. Things are changing as the UFO issue just refuses to go away.) You will all hear more and more about the reality status of UFOs as we go through the 1990s. Intelligence establishment secrecy is being slowly broken down and the scientific/scholarly community is slowly putting up less resistance as the years go by. "My opinions are based on 15 years of reading the UFO liter- ature and four years or so of more or less active participation in the UFO community. It is very hard to understand what is go- ing on in the UFO community without paying very close attention to it. The normal sources of news and information cover this group of people in a very inconsistent and sometimes downright biased way. You're just going to have to get your feet wet on this one; otherwise, you'll just being talking through your hat. "I'll be happy to send via electronic mail my representative UFO bibliography to anyone who wants it. Lately, new (and sig- nificant) UFO books are added practically monthly in the past few years. UFOs are hot again. We seem to be in a peak of activity again. "The latest significant book is by Ed Walters on his Gulf- breeze UFO/photograph experiences, being distributed to your lo- cal bookstores as I write this." Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ira.uka.de!math.fu-berlin.de!news.netmbx.de!zelator!leo From: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de (Stefan Hartmann) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFO meeting in Berlin Message-ID: Date: 14 Apr 92 11:39:32 GMT References: <126017.29E95880@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System Lines: 61 In <126017.29E95880@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews) writes: >Hallo, Andre! Greetings from New York! Hello Clark, greetings back to New York from Berlin! > > International UFO congress in Berlin (Germany) > > KIK - communication in the universe, congress & exhibition > > 16.-20.4.92 in Berlin > > A international UFO-congress take place at April 16.-20. in > > Berlin. >Gratulieren und glueck auf mit dieser Konferenz! Aber ich habe einige Frage ueber Virgil Armstrong. >[Kudos on the Conference -- But I've got some questions re: Virgil Armstrong] > > Speakers: > > Virgil Armstrong, USA, Sponsor, as secret service > > officer he works > > on the recovery of the first > > UFO, found 1948 in > > the USA. >Meiner Erinnerung nach, war Armstrong Astronaut in der fruehern Tagen des US Space Program. Ich habe nichts von seiner Roswell-Aktivitaeten gehoert. Sind Sie sicher, dass diesen Mann gutglaeubig ist? Entw. echt Astronaut od. echt Roswellzeuge? >Sei vorsichtig, mein Freund -- die Betrueger und die Disinformers (Unberichtstattern??? Die Wortschatz hilft nicht...) kommen von allen Seiten. >[To our American listeners -- I'm wondering if *anyone* has heard of Virgil Armstrong's involvement in the Roswell case? I've never heard of this guy. Could it be a *different* Virgil Armstrong? Or could this possibly refer to Gerald Anderson -- who was only 8 or 9 at the time and certainly was not an Army-Intelligence man? I'm wondering just exactly who our German friends have speaking at their conference...] >Andre, ich habe deine Konferenz-notiz ins INFO.PARANET sitzt. Glueck auf! >Best, > Clark >Clark Matthews - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 >UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name >INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG Hi Clark, I gonna take also a look at this conference ! I'm still looking for good UFO-video tapes for digitisation to put them up in a MultiMedia MPEG format to an FTP site. BTW, the conference it very expensive to participate !!! It is 400 german marks , that is about 250 US$ !!! :-(( But single lectures cost only 30 DM to participate ! I will participate at the Virgil Amstrong lecture about the Roswell incident at Friday 17th April 1992 from 11 am to 1 pm. I think this could be worth the 30 german marks. I will keep You updated, when I'm back from the conference. Could please somebody update the Internet in this newsgroup about the UFO conference taking place a few days before the Berlin UFO-conference over there in the USA with Don Ecker and Phil Class ??? Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for Decentral Energy Research email to: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de -- ******************************************************************************* * Stefan Hartmann This is how to contact me: * * EMAIL: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de * * Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79 * ******************************************************************************* Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!nosc!crash!nusdecs!arghouse!arg From: arg@arghouse.UUCP (G.Argendeli-Sysop) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.slack,alt.stupidity,alt.exploding.kibo,alt.religion.kibol Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again... Message-ID: Date: 13 Apr 92 23:46:57 GMT References: <1992Apr7.024534.159@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Distribution: ca Organization: The Listening Post Lines: 81 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5272 alt.slack:2980 alt.stupidity:4607 alt.exploding.kibo:187 klein@kira.egr.msu.edu (Jeffrey Klein) writes: > In article smedley@milton.u.washington.edu (Willia > >bur@soil.gsfc.nasa.gov (Mike Bur) writes: > > > >>In article <-zlj3qq.raj@netcom.com> raj@netcom.com (Roger Lee) writes: > >>>In <1992Apr4.004715.17931@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> bur@ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov > >>> > >>>>In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Pa > >>>>>In article <1992Apr2.015814.14003@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> bur@ultisol.gsfc > >>>>>>In article <1992Apr1.020902.587@zip.eecs.umich.edu> fields@zip.eecs.umi > >>>>>>>In article <1992Mar31.211150.13627@cs.rose-hulman.edu> waldbyjf@NeXTwo > >>>>>>>>In article <1992Mar28.192924.17253@acsu.buffalo.edu> > >>>>>>>>majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) writes: > >>>>>>>>> sramming@athena.mit.edu (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes: > >>>>>>>>> >In article <1992Mar27.033812.25302@acsu.buffalo.edu> > >>>>>>>>majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) writes: > >>>>>>>>> >>klm@gozer.mv.com (Kevin L. McBride) writes: > >>>>>>>>> >>>kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: > >>>>>>>>> >>>> In article <1992Mar25.012450.7508@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> > >>>>>>>>press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes: > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >In article <1992Mar20.031338.3813@nntp.uoregon.edu>, > >>>>>>>>rtaylor@cie.uoregon.edu (Russ Taylor) writes: > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> In article kibo@world.std.com (J > >>>>>>>>'Kibo' Parry) writes: > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed] > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS. > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper. > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH. I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOUL > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*. > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but on > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> added your ten cents? A thousand-degree flame on you! > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!) > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth? > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich > >>>>>>>>> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width. > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it? > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >because he made a paste of it > >>>>>>>>> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it. > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >he never was a sailor > >>>>>>>>> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer. > >>>>>>>>> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE? PLEASE EXERC > >>>>>>>>> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT. > >>>>>>>>> >>>Okay. > >>>>>>>>> >> Come on guys, I think he means it. Don't follow up to this. > >>>>>>>>> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious. > >>>>>>>>> >Go ahead and follow up. > >>>>>>>>> >Or kill me. > >>>>>>>>> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess. > >>>>>>>>Shhhh! > >>>>>>>>> >sramming@athena.mit.edu > >>>>>>>>> >M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming 305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge MA > >>>>>>>>> >( the nonibo -ibo ) (617) 225-9887 [home] (617) 253-7942 [of > >>>>>>>>> No! Don't follow up to this! Whatever you do, _don't_ press > >>>>>>>>> that "f" button! It's a sin! It's a sin! This is against the god > >>>>>>>>> of bandwidth and all that is wholly! See what you do! You waste a > >>>>>>>>> waste and waste until the unthinkable happens! Nay, until the > >>>>>>>>> _unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the > >>>>>>>>> world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up! My > >>>>>>>>> _GOD_! How can you even think it! How can you dream it and still > >>>>>>>>> remain sane?!?!? How can it be?!?!?!?! Gah!!!! > >>>>>>>>> majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu | The meek shall inherit the earth, > >>>>>>>>> v061regm@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu | and the wise keep moving on... > >>>>>>>>> Rev. M @P.O. Box 156 O |------------------------------------ > >>>>>>>>> Amherst, NY 14226 + |Ask me about the Secret Society! Sh > >>>>>>>>What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion? I > >>>>>>>>missed the earlier parts. > >>>>>>There. No more wasted "Bandwidth" > >>>>>Huh? > >>>>Duh! > >>>NOT! > >>Got. > >Gott. > What? Je Ne Comprends Pas.... Pas! --- "By this time, my lungs were aching for air!" -MST3K Greg Argendeli, System Administrator (arg@arghouse.uucp) (bbs) +1 619 563 1084| (Page) +1 619 989 0912 | (Voice) +1 619 528 1209 Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!wupost!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!anson From: anson@netcom.com (Anson Kennedy) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFO CONSPIRACY Message-ID: <#9xj2w_.anson@netcom.com> Date: 14 Apr 92 15:25:29 GMT References: Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 12 Argh! Not more Cooperisms! Please, make it all go away! -- Anson Kennedy Secretary of the Georgia Skeptics (but don't even THINK I speak for them!) "If I had been the Virgin Mary, I would have said 'No.'" -Margaret "Stevie" Smith (1902-1971) Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!wupost!ukma!widener!beyonet!beyo From: beyo@beyonet.UUCP (Steve Urich) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: UFO info (fwd) Message-ID: <337@beyonet.UUCP> Date: 14 Apr 92 16:52:58 GMT Organization: Beyonet Network Lines: 95 Here is a forwarded message I read on Amatuer Packet Radio. It explains how to reach UFO information via different medias. Steve ----------------------------Start Forwarded Packet Message MSG # TR SIZE TO FROM @BBS DATE TITLE 5790 B# 3723 ALL WD8ARZ ALLBBS 920414 UFO INFO SOURCES Forwarding path: WB3EUF KA3FMO NO8M WA8BXN WB8LVP W3IXR KA3OEM NM3G KA3SFC KA2TFC VE3SNP VE3OY VE3FJB VE3IRI SHORTWAVE FREQUENCY'S, SATELLITE TV, HAM NETS, AND MODEM BBS'S CAN ALL BE ACCESSED FOR INFO THAT COVER UFO'S AND OTHER RELATED TOPICS. BOOKS, MAGAZINES, RADIO/TV SHOWS, PERSONAL EXPERIENCES, AND MEETING SCHEDULES ARE SOME OF THE ITEMS COVERED. A VCR WILL CAN BE USED WHEN YOU CANT BE HOME, NOT ONLY TO RECORD THE AUDIO/VIDEO OF THE SATELLITE, BUT ALSO FOR RECORDING THE AUDIO OF THE SHORTWAVE/HAM SIGNALS. SATELLITE: (HOME TVRO SYSTEMS) SPACENET 1 TRANSPONDER 13 FOR THE 'ET MONITOR' PROGRAM. SATURDAY NIGHTS AT MIDNIGHT E.S.T. ALSO ON SOME CABLE OUTLETS, ESPECIALLY IN PENNSYLVANIA. SHORTWAVE: WWCR "FOR THE PEOPLE" BROADCAST, THE CHUCK HARDER SHOW. 7435 KHZ A.M. MODE AT 8-10 P.M. E.S.T. MONDAY - FRIDAY. HAM RADIO: MUFON TRAFFIC NET (FORMAL); PASSES INFORMATION ABOUT UFO'S AND OTHER RELATED TOPICS EVERY SATURDAY MORNING AT 8:00 A.M. EST ON 7237 KHZ IN LSB. MONITOR THIS NET FOR CHANGES TO OTHER PROGRAMS AND NETS. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE A MEMBER OF ANY UFO GROUP TO PARTICAPATE. JUST BE A LICENSED HAM FOR THAT PART OF THE 40 METER BAND. UFO DISCUSSION NET (INFORMAL); THIS NET IS A LOOSE ROUNDTABLE OF HAMS THAT RAGCHEW ABOUT UFO'S AND RELATED ENIGMA'S, ANOMALIES, AND 'IN SEARCH OF' INTERESTS. THIS NET IS FLEXABLE AND MAY NOT ALWAYS MEET. FREQUENCY IS 3929 KHZ IN LSB, SATURDAYS, SIGN ON 9 P.M. E.S.T., AND LASTS UNTIL IT IS DONE, GENERALLY 10 - 12 P.M., BUT HAS LASTED LONGER ON SOME OCCASIONS. COMPUTER LANDLINE BBS: PRODIGY; HOMELIFE SECTION, OUTDOOR HOBBY, TOPIC UFO. ARTS SECTION, BOOKS NON FICTION, TOPIC VARIES DEPENDING ON SUBJECT AND BOOK TITLE. STEP THROUGH THE LISTING. COMPUSERVE; UFO CONFERENCE IS NUMBER 10 ON THE ISSUES FORUM LIST. LIBRARY AREAS EXIST FOR EACH CONFERENCE. THESE CONTAIN FILES, USUALLY TEXT. CONTACT MARK HOCHMAN, N1GCR, CI$ ID # 73320,2317 FOR ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT COMPUSERVE OR THE FIDONET BBS NETWORK. MANY PRIVATE LANDLINE BULLETIN BOARDS EXIST ACROSS THE NATION. MOST OF YOUR LOCAL LANDLINE BBS WILL HAVE A LISTING OF SOME OF THE UFO RELATED ONES THAT WILL LEAD YOU TO OTHERS. PLEASE PASS ANY TV/SATELLITE/SHORTWAVE/COMPUTER/HAM UFO PROGRAM SCHEDULES, FREQUENCIES, DATE/TIME, PHONE NUMBERS AND COMPUTER ACCESS INFORMATION TO ME AND I WILL UPDATE THE LIST FROM TIME TO TIME IF THE INTEREST EXISTS. SEND TO: WD8ARZ @ WD8DWO.MI.USA.NA ON PACKET WBPT61A ON THE PRODIGY COMPUTER BBS OR CATCH ME ON THE HAM UFO NETS..... ALL OF THESE SATELLITE, SHORTWAVE, AND HAM NETS CAN BE MONITORED THROUGH OUT MOST OF THE UNITED STATES AND CANADA. GOOD LUCK, AND MAY YOU FIND ALL YOUR MONITORING INTERESTING. 73, WD8ARZ (BILL) FROM MICHIGAN.........OUT *** END OF MSG # 5790 from WD8ARZ @ VE3IRI.#CON.ON.CAN.NA. -- ############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ############### ##|_|########## Bensalem, PA USA |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|########## ###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ############### #### #### snark!beyonet!beyo |when I hit the Screen" #### #### ## |_| ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project ## |_| ## ## ##-----------------------------------------------## ## #### #### Packet Radio: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.#SEPA.PA.USA.NA #### #### _###############_______________________________________________###############_ Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!uw-beaver!pullen From: pullen@cs.washington.edu (Walter D. Pullen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Me Summary: Meaning of the universe Message-ID: <1992Apr14.172913.21985@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Date: 14 Apr 92 17:29:13 GMT References: <4jkj2yn.anson@netcom.com> <92094.112608IO00198@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> <1992Apr10.140520.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> Sender: news@beaver.cs.washington.edu (USENET News System) Organization: University of Washington Computer Science Lines: 35 In article <1992Apr10.140520.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> ccasm@cc.newcastle.edu.au writes: >In article <92094.112608IO00198@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>, >>IO00198@MAINE.MAINE.EDU writes: >> The number is 42, but it's not God, it's the answer to the meaning of the >> universe. But what the hell's the question ?!!? > >For all those who haven't seen Douglas Adams' HITCHIKERS GUIDE TO THE UNIVERSE >trilogy: after millions of years of calculation by the most powerful computer >the answer was indeed 42. The question had been forgotten by then, but was >assumed to be "the meaning of life". To find out the question they travelled >back in time to observe it being written in the dust by primitive man: > > 6 x 8 = ? Shouldn't the question be 6 x *7* = ? Seven, of course, is a better number anyway because of its mystical properties. Actually, considering that "6" is considered to be the number of man, and "7" is considered to be the number of God (i.e. as in 666 and 777), then maybe this question can be interpreted as a mathematical representation of the ageless question of the interaction between man and God, between Creation and Creator, between the Yin and Yang polarities. And of course, the ultimate answer to the meaning of the universe, is the non-dualistic unity of the polarities, i.e. 6 and 7 combined; hence the answer is 42!!! (Of course, this is just my interpretation. :) -|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|- | Walter D. "Cruiser1" Pullen | pullen@lynx.cs.washington.edu | -|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|- | "Who am I, What am I? As I am, I am not. But as we are, I AM. And to | - you my creation, My Perfect Love is your Perfect Freedom. And I will be - | with you forever and ever, until the End, and then forever more." - GOD | -|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|- Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!anasaz!qip!john From: john@anasaz (John Moore) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <1992Apr12.230048.15124@anasaz> Date: 12 Apr 92 23:00:48 GMT Organization: Anasazi, Inc. Phoenix, AZ, USA Lines: 18 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5276 alt.conspiracy:14068 talk.religion.newage:10060 alt.paranormal:4784 Keywords: In article <1992Apr10.194826.26510@terminator.cc.umich.edu> briansp@css.itd.umich.edu (Brian Spolarich) writes: ]> This is from ]> garys@bluemoon.rn.com ]>who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet ] ] ] Are we a little paranoid? Time for some Prozac, I think. Prozac is for depression, not paranoia (or schizophrenia which was very evident in the quoted posting). -- John Moore NJ7E, 7525 Clearwater Pkwy, Scottsdale, AZ 85253 (602-951-9326) john@anasazi.com ncar!noao!asuvax!anasaz!john anasaz!john@asuvax.eas.asu.edu - - Support ALL ...erk glugh mmpph.... Memory fault (core dumped) Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!wupost!uwm.edu!linac!tellab5!jcj From: jcj@tellabs.com (jcj) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Mach6 spy plane Keywords: spy ufo plane Message-ID: <1992Apr14.173456.1052@tellab5.tellabs.com> Date: 14 Apr 92 17:34:56 GMT References: <1992Apr13.153114.18290@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> Sender: news@tellab5.tellabs.com (News) Organization: Wazmodyne Industries Lines: 10 Nntp-Posting-Host: sunhc In article <1992Apr13.153114.18290@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> ullaha@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (friend) writes: >... plane reportedly operating out of a remote Scottish >US air base. The plane had reportedly been tracked at mach 3 >... and reportedly capable of mach 6. This sounds a little like "Aurora", a very black unmanned project. Anybody hear anything more? -- jcj@tellabs.com Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!uoft02.utoledo.edu!desire.wright.edu!cse0935 From: cse0935@desire.wright.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: galactic ftp sites Message-ID: <1992Apr14.172948.959@desire.wright.edu> Date: 14 Apr 92 22:29:48 GMT Organization: Wright State University Lines: 6 Does anyone have a list of the newest inter-planetary/inter-glalatic ftp sites? thanks, John Prikkel( cse0935@desire.wright.edu ) Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!boulder!ucsu!cubldr.colorado.edu!crago_l From: crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: presidential sightings Message-ID: <1992Apr14.162932.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> Date: 14 Apr 92 23:29:32 GMT Sender: news@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (USENET News System) Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder Lines: 13 Nntp-Posting-Host: gold.colorado.edu Fascinating trivia: on "Now It Can Be Told" Feb. 29, 1992, a report on UFO sightings by famous people. John Lennon saw one in NYC, as did Muhammed Ali. Also a recap of the officially reported sighting by then-Governor of Georgia, later President of US, Jimmy Carter. Most fascinating was report by Ronald Reagan's personal pilot of a sighting while in flight by himself and then-Governor of California Ronald Reagan. According to the pilot it was a multicolored light, bigger than the full moon, and it paced their plane. Film clips of three later speeches given publicly by Pres. Reagan during 1988, one of them to the U.N., in which he repeatedly posed the curious question, What would all our national defenses be if we were threatened by "a power from outer space." Interesting that he would keep bringing it up. Path: ns-mx!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!ucbvax!STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM!lpb From: lpb@STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM (Len Bucuvalas) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: ELECTRONIC IMPLANTS MADE BY HUMANS Message-ID: <9204150013.AA14598@echidna.swdc.stratus.com> Date: 15 Apr 92 00:13:51 GMT Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Lines: 164 Yes that's right .... HUMANS!!! US!!! We are the goddamned enemy, damn it!!!! Anyone reading this from Paranet or MUFONET...start cruising the other news groups!!!! Try activism....talk.politics....conspiracy......you will be amazed at the tidbits of information!!! Samurai_Writer ps: I cant get this group so if anyone has anything to add to this please!! EMAIL ME!!!!! This was posted by Emailing to alt-alien-visitors@ucbvax.berkeley.edu ----- Begin Included Message ----- Article 93648 of talk.politics.misc: Path: stratus!voder!apple!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!ukma!eng.ufl.edu!gnv.ifas.ufl.edu!jrm From: jrm@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc Subject: KIDSCAN - Electronic Big Brother. Message-ID: <1992Apr1.222950.973@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu> Date: 2 Apr 92 03:29:50 GMT Lines: 52 Chanced upon an episode of that Australian TV show "Beyond 2000" last night on TDC. I arrived at the tail end of a story about a device called "KIDSCAN". This appears to be an adaptation of a lab-animal ID tag that is regularly advertized in the weekly science journals like "AAAS SCIENCE" and "NATURE". What you have is a tiny glass capsule containing a passive radio re-transmitter designed to be injected directly under the skin of the animal. These things are very tiny - looks like maybe 0.75x2.0 mm. They are designed to derive energy from an RF field and then re-transmit at another frequency. The transmission contains a multi-digit ID code that allows each animal to be positively identified. [I CHANCED UPON AN ARTICLE IN THE SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE THAT DESCRIBED THE ABOVE DEVICE IN ACTIVE USE IN MARIN COUNTY ON ALL PETS WHOSE OWNERS ARE WILLING TO HAVE THEM IMPLANTED. I URGE YOU ALL TO GO AND BUY THE BOOK "BEHOLD A PALE HORSE" BY WILLIAM COOPER!!...Samurai_Writer] KIDSCAN is the same principal ... but is being sold as something you have implanted into your children - for their health and safety according to the seller. These versions appear to be a little larger and can transmit for a several block radius. The idea is to have a transmitter/reciever every few blocks ... kinda like a small cellular phone system. This way, the exact location of your precious progeny can be tracked every few minutes and, I suppose, a time-map of your childs activities can be provided. There is no reason that sensors could not be added to detect cocaine/reefer/alcohol/nicotine/contraceptive substances/neural and brain activity etc.. [THIS IS GREAT HUH? WHAT NEXT?!?! JUST SAY ..NO!] The angle is perfect. It is easy to drive parents to paranoia about their kids safety. The kids are very much the property of their parents and suffer diminished rights when it comes to this style of intrusion. Any half-ass advertizer could concoct some horrific TV commercials demonstrating how this product can 'save' your child from something. If the price is right - and technology just gets better and cheaper - they could sell millions of these things. Another obvious use is for felons - especially those on parole or out on bail pending an appeal. Their location, and perhaps their activities, could be easily monitored. After felons comes the mentally retarded, altzheimers patients, petty criminals, 'suspicious persons' ... right down to every single human being. [MY FAMILY ADOPTED A PHRASE I CONCOCTED AS A CHILD WHEN STUDYING THE CONSTITUTION IN SCHOOL, "BETTER DEAD THAN LED" AND I STILL BELIEVE THAT EVEN MORE SO TODAY....RECALL THE REVOLUTIONARY WAR! MEN AN WOMEN WHO WERE WILLING TO SACRIFICE ALL TO ELIMINATE THE ENEMY!] Masons rule - If it CAN be detected, someone will discover a pressing reason TO detect it. Many discount the ability of interested parties to institute anything resembling a totalitarian system upon the USA. They point to such failed attempts as the 'War on Drugs', the McCarthy ant-pinko purge etc.. The usual reasoning goes that you would have to have a policeman following each and every person 24 hours a day to prevent/ensure an activity. Well, thanks to microelectronics - here is such a policeman. Start with the kids and the obviously dangerous and then slowly find reasons to expand the coverage - 'security' being a great catch-all reason. [NOT ME FOLKS! THE FIRST PERSON TO TRY TO ENFORCE THIS UPON ME OR MINE WILL BE SURPRISED AT THE RECEPTION THAT PERSON WILL RECEIVE....FREEDOM!!!!!] Wake-up and smell the coffee people ... technology has made the aspiring totalitarians job easy ! -- Jim Mason : Standard Disclaimers Article 93649 of talk.politics.misc: Path: stratus!voder!apple!mips.mitek.com!convex!convex!linac!att!cbfsb!cbnewsc!rats From: rats@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (Morris the Cat) Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc Subject: Re: KIDSCAN - Electronic Big Brother. Message-ID: <1992Apr2.160635.8825@cbnewsc.cb.att.com> Date: 2 Apr 92 16:06:35 GMT Distribution: usa Organization: AT&T Lines: 64 In <1992Apr1.222950.973@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu> Jim Mason states: |The angle is perfect. It is easy to drive parents to paranoia about their |kids safety. The kids are very much the property of their parents and |suffer diminished rights when it comes to this style of intrusion. Any |half-ass advertizer could concoct some horrific TV commercials demonstrating |how this product can 'save' your child from something. If the price is |right - and technology just gets better and cheaper - they could sell |millions of these things. |Another obvious use is for felons - especially those on parole or out on |bail pending an appeal. Their location, and perhaps their activities, |could be easily monitored. After felons comes the mentally retarded, |altzheimers patients, petty criminals, 'suspicious persons' ... right |down to every single human being. |Masons rule - If it CAN be detected, someone will discover a pressing |reason TO detect it. |Many discount the ability of interested parties to institute anything |resembling a totalitarian system upon the USA. They point to such |failed attempts as the 'War on Drugs', the McCarthy ant-pinko purge etc.. |The usual reasoning goes that you would have to have a policeman following |each and every person 24 hours a day to prevent/ensure an activity. Well, |thanks to microelectronics - here is such a policeman. Start with the kids |and the obviously dangerous and then slowly find reasons to expand the |coverage - 'security' being a great catch-all reason. |Wake-up and smell the coffee people ... technology has made the aspiring |totalitarians job easy ! Supporters of the U.S. "Right to Keep and Bear Arms" have been awake and smelling the coffee for a long, LONG time. The electronic monitoring chip idea was proposed by the gun controllers- anti-RKBA community many years ago. Just recently in a Chicago Tribune column by the fool Clarence Page, an editor(?), it showed up again. The anti-RKBA never quits dreaming of new ways to destroy the RKBA of the masses. In terms of kids, the latest New Wave Gun Control strategem is the "Kids & Guns" conumdrum. A near simultaneous growth of news stories concerning the 'awful' Kids'n Guns combo has hit the news media, as well as the editorial and op-ed pages and Eye-Nitwit-News TV. These are given a so-called "air of credibility" by government financed "studies" released to show the assertion that the "disease" of guns has "infected" the non-adult community. Further publicity is given to reinforce the idea of "firearms-infection" by getting some medical groups such as pediatricians to endorse ballistic weapons bans, up to and including BB guns. These have the effect of gun control activists masquerating as "concerned citizens" passing Bill of Right Free Zones i.e. Gun Free School Zones and "Child-Firearm-Safety" laws i.e. you are defacto negligent if a child accidentally shoots another, since the child used your gun and "Make-Your-Weapon-Useless-Trigger-Lock" laws. Of course, the ultimate version of this is the Washington, D.C. law which states that having an assembled firearm in your home is illegal. And, of course, the whole point of all this is to restrict a person's right to weapons and usage as much as possible for the moment, for tommorrow is another day to foist ever-MORE gun controls on the hapless American citizen. ----- End Included Message ----- Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!boulder!ucsu!hoza From: hoza@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (HOZA MARK R) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFO CONSPIRACY Message-ID: <1992Apr15.011330.12370@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> Date: 15 Apr 92 01:13:30 GMT References: Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder Lines: 8 I think that this information is accurate, but this is based only on my intuition and feelings, which have resulted from what I've read in other places. I think that what Milton William Cooper has allegedly said is accurate. I intend to investigate further, but this is my impression at this time. I welcome any leads to information on the subject of UFO's, or advice for my research. Mark Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!boulder!ucsu!hoza From: hoza@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (HOZA MARK R) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFO CONSPIRACY Message-ID: <1992Apr15.015016.15814@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> Date: 15 Apr 92 01:50:16 GMT References: Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder Lines: 12 I made a call to KVEG am840 radio to ask about the Billy Goodman talk show, which was mentioned by Milton William Cooper. They said that they are a "sports talk show, only." The person whom I spoke with said, several times, that their station does not have a "Billy Goodman" talk show at all. Can someone help me on this issue. I would like to hear this talk show if it really exists. Also, I am in Boulder, CO, and I can't get am840 because KOA am850 is so strong. Does anyone know what station I could listen to which would have the Benny Goodman show in my area (again, if the show exists)? Thanks, Mark Hoza Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!rice!uw-beaver!pullen From: pullen@cs.washington.edu (Walter D. Pullen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: The Greys speak. Summary: Channeled information from the Zeta Reticulum itself. Keywords: Greys Message-ID: <1992Apr15.000731.4998@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Date: 15 Apr 92 00:07:31 GMT References: <9210413.28605@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> Sender: news@beaver.cs.washington.edu (USENET News System) Organization: University of Washington Computer Science Lines: 87 For those interested, below is a message from the Reticulian extraterrestrials, in which they describe their activities here as well as the general introduction of the alien presense to us of Earth. (BTW, these Greys presently working with Earth are known as "The Facilitators".) I obtained this message from the book "UFO Contact from the Pleiades" by Wendelle Stevens. The message was received during the evening of 26 August 1981 at Charleston, SC in the form of "impressed writing" (i.e. channeling) through which extraterrestrial messages are usually transmitted. Stevens said he considered it a "remarkable communication" because Billy Meier had received a private communication from the Pleiadians earlier which had some of the same information concerning video taping of contacts. For those who think all aliens communicate in the New Agey manner of the Pleiadians, check out the disciplined English style (best read in a fast monotone, not! ;-) of our ET visitors from the Reticulum! (The "Network", BTW, refers to the Confederation of Planets they belong to.) BEGINNING OF MESSAGE... The ability of the human sociological spectrum to conceptualize the existence of the phenomena (UFO) and its resultant effect upon the cultural advancement of human civilization will be made manifest within a measurable amount of time/space continuum. In accordance with the eventual purpose of the "Network" consensus, there is ample communicative formulation in program to maintain "Network" direct observance (physical contact) in support of mutual contact involvement. There can be free exchanges of information absolutely designed to enhance the occurrence of "network" contact and ongoing monitoring of "Network" subjects. The eldership has determined a definite relative fundamental multitudinous act of ongoing direct observance (close encounter) experiments. The data assimilated regarding the experiments is continually examined by the "Network" analysts, and the full findings distributed within the "Network" operations. The individual amount of examined data can be verified and classified within the "Network" Space Center, and is injected for reference purposes in multicomplex retrieval banks. Upon approval of the "Network" eldership, the available data is implemented within the progressional direct observance procedures. There can be no partial utilization of the assimilated data. The subject involved is then inculcated with the desired data which is given in either active or full dormant status (unconscious). There must be intense precautions taken to insure there is no actual resultant vitiation regarding the "Network" subject. The ability of the "Network" to enunciate the inculcated program to maintain the continual duality of purpose concerning the contacts is accomplished through an intact inculcated monitor. The transmittal of "Network" linguistical symbols is due inpart to enable the subject to communicate via random transmittal data which will contribute to the understanding and enhancement of the meaning of the "Network" and the populace of human civilization. The progressive contacts between the "Network" and selected "Network" subjects will continue. A plot of geographical areas involved in direct observance activities is currently undergoing in in-depth equational analysis. The purpose and selection will then be considered according to the consensus of the "Network" eldership. The contact is then initiated. Data is then integrated into a "Network" lexicon and the implication involving the subject are determined. Calculations are then transmitted throughout the "Network". The "Network" communications with planetary intergalactic prevalent existent lifeforms is based upon universal and interuniversal comity. Recognition of interuniversal principles and organizational thought is directed primarily towards preservation of the evolutionary spectrum and the advancement of human civilizations. Interferrance into the entire direction of the planetary scale of the selected planet is prohibited... The Pleiadian races have agreed, as have the Council of Dorado and the Horologium Assembly. The Eldership and other quadriuniversal representatives are in full and complete agreement with all tenets of interuniversal comity. The forthcoming observance of "Network" vehicles will be manifest. The "Network" has monitored the progress of inculcated data and resultant documentation. The utilization of laser light amplification devices to initiate activity with the resultant intention to videotape "Network" vehicles is considered an allowable activity and will be permitted upon affirmation that the videotape use is guarded and restricted. END OF MESSAGE... -|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|- | Walter D. "Cruiser1" Pullen | pullen@lynx.cs.washington.edu | -|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|- | "Who am I, What am I? As I am, I am not. But as we are, I AM. And to | - you my creation, My Perfect Love is your Perfect Freedom. And I will be - | with you forever and ever, until the End, and then forever more." - GOD | -|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|- Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!munnari.oz.au!uunet!boulder!ucsu!hoza From: hoza@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (HOZA MARK R) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFO CONSPIRACY Message-ID: <1992Apr15.054041.8483@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> Date: 15 Apr 92 05:40:41 GMT References: <#9xj2w_.anson@netcom.com> Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder Lines: 20 anson@netcom.com (Anson Kennedy) writes: >Argh! >Not more Cooperisms! >Please, make it all go away! >-- >Anson Kennedy >Secretary of the Georgia Skeptics (but don't even THINK I speak for them!) > "If I had been the Virgin Mary, I would have said 'No.'" > -Margaret "Stevie" Smith (1902-1971) Oh, you Ninnie! I'm no "Cooperism"! I'm YOUR WORST NIGHTMARE!!!! Hahahahahaa! Just take a big breath and everything will be all right. ;) Path: ns-mx!uunet!munnari.oz.au!metro!seagoon.newcastle.edu.au!cc.newcastle.edu.au!ccasm From: ccasm@cc.newcastle.edu.au Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Me Message-ID: <1992Apr15.140148.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> Date: 15 Apr 92 04:01:48 GMT References: <4jkj2yn.anson@netcom.com> <92094.112608IO00198@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> <1992Apr10.140520.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> <1992Apr14.172913.21985@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Sender: news@seagoon.newcastle.edu.au Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA Lines: 31 In article <1992Apr14.172913.21985@beaver.cs.washington.edu>, pullen@cs.washington.edu (Walter D. Pullen) writes: > In article <1992Apr10.140520.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> ccasm@cc.newcastle.edu.au writes: >>In article <92094.112608IO00198@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>, >>>IO00198@MAINE.MAINE.EDU writes: >>> The number is 42, but it's not God, it's the answer to the meaning of the >>> universe. But what the hell's the question ?!!? >> >>For all those who haven't seen Douglas Adams' HITCHIKERS GUIDE TO THE UNIVERSE >>trilogy: after millions of years of calculation by the most powerful computer >>the answer was indeed 42. The question had been forgotten by then, but was >>assumed to be "the meaning of life". To find out the question they travelled >>back in time to observe it being written in the dust by primitive man: >> >> 6 x 8 = ? > > Shouldn't the question be 6 x *7* = ? > > ...crap deleted.... > > hence the answer is 42!!! > > (Of course, this is just my interpretation. :) > Cheez! Some people are so serious they never see the irony !!!! Perhaps you could also have posted that the answer was wrong, = 48, not 42 :-) This point in Douglas Adam's (fictional) book was the futility of it all and the meaningless need to ask such pointless questions, like the one you just asked. 0 0 U \_/ Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!bluemoon!garys From: garys@bluemoon.rn.com (Gary Stollman) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <1kq0iB1w164w@bluemoon.rn.com> Date: 15 Apr 92 10:49:23 GMT References: <1992Apr12.230048.15124@anasaz> Sender: bbs@bluemoon.rn.com (BBS Login) Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024]) Lines: 30 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5286 alt.conspiracy:14086 talk.religion.newage:10061 alt.paranormal:4787 john@anasaz (John Moore) writes: > Keywords: > > In article <1992Apr10.194826.26510@terminator.cc.umich.edu> briansp@css.itd.u > ]> This is from > ]> garys@bluemoon.rn.com > ]>who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet > ] > ] > ] Are we a little paranoid? Time for some Prozac, I think. > > Prozac is for depression, not paranoia (or schizophrenia which was > very evident in the quoted posting). > > > -- > John Moore NJ7E, 7525 Clearwater Pkwy, Scottsdale, AZ 85253 (602-951-9326) > john@anasazi.com ncar!noao!asuvax!anasaz!john anasaz!john@asuvax.eas.asu.edu > - - Support ALL ...erk glugh mmpph.... Memory fault (core dumped) ***** Don't make diagnosises unless you are a trained professional...I an't crazy, and you ain't no judge of humanity... Gary This is from garys@bluemoon.rn.com who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!decwrl!access.usask.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!bison!draco!orion!stimpsn From: stimpsn@bbs.orion.bison.mb.ca (Gary Stimpson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: UFO Magazine. Message-ID: Date: 15 Apr 92 16:58:45 GMT Sender: bbs@orion.bison.mb.ca (BBS Account) Organization: The Orion Unix System [A/UX 2.0.1], Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Lines: 9 Thanks for the address, Michael (Corbin). I just need one more question answered. How much does it cost to subscribe (American $$'s)? Thanks, Gary -- stimpsn@bbs.orion.bison.mb.ca (Gary Stimpson) The Orion Unix System [A/UX 2.0.1], Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!bradford.ac.uk!K.Haigh-Hutchinson From: K.Haigh-Hutchinson@bradford.ac.uk (K.HAIGH-HUTCHINSON) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Meaning of Life Keywords: 42, Meaning of Life, Hitchhikers Guide to the Universe Message-ID: <1992Apr15.160724.26710@bradford.ac.uk> Date: 15 Apr 92 16:07:24 GMT References: <92094.112608IO00198@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> <1992Apr10.140520.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> <1992Apr14.172913.21985@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Sender: Mrs. K. Haigh-Hutchinson Organization: University of Bradford, UK Lines: 18 Originator: s1497@asic Nntp-Posting-Host: asic.brad.ac.uk Actually the question on the Scrabble board was 6 x 9. Now this does not equal 42 so this convinces Arthur there is something fundamentally wrong with the Universe. A friend of mine pointed out that it 6 x 9 does equal 42 in base 13. (4 * 13) + 2 = 54 so 42 in base 13 = 6 x 9 in base 10 My own question now Interesting that the answer was in base 13 and was intended for the mice (They paid for the computer remember) Do we humans dislike 13 so much because it subconsciously reminds us that the mice are in charge? K.Haigh-Hutchinson Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!tulane!rouge!pgf From: pgf@usl.edu (Phil G. Fraering) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Me Message-ID: Date: 15 Apr 92 18:18:41 GMT References: <4jkj2yn.anson@netcom.com> <92094.112608IO00198@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> <1992Apr10.140520.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> <1992Apr14.172913.21985@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <1992Apr15.140148.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> Sender: anon@usl.edu (Anonymous NNTP Posting) Organization: Univ. of Southwestern Louisiana Lines: 51 ccasm@cc.newcastle.edu.au writes: >In article <1992Apr14.172913.21985@beaver.cs.washington.edu>, pullen@cs.washington.edu (Walter D. Pullen) writes: >> In article <1992Apr10.140520.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> ccasm@cc.newcastle.edu.au writes: >>>In article <92094.112608IO00198@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>, >>>>IO00198@MAINE.MAINE.EDU writes: >>>> The number is 42, but it's not God, it's the answer to the meaning of the >>>> universe. But what the hell's the question ?!!? >>> >>>For all those who haven't seen Douglas Adams' HITCHIKERS GUIDE TO THE UNIVERSE >>>trilogy: after millions of years of calculation by the most powerful computer >>>the answer was indeed 42. The question had been forgotten by then, but was >>>assumed to be "the meaning of life". To find out the question they travelled >>>back in time to observe it being written in the dust by primitive man: >>> >>> 6 x 8 = ? >> >> Shouldn't the question be 6 x *7* = ? >> >> ...crap deleted.... >> >> hence the answer is 42!!! >> >> (Of course, this is just my interpretation. :) >> >Cheez! Some people are so serious they never see the irony !!!! >Perhaps you could also have posted that the answer was wrong, = 48, not 42 :-) >This point in Douglas Adam's (fictional) book was the futility of it all and >the meaningless need to ask such pointless questions, like the one you just >asked. 0 0 > U > \_/ Not really. In Base 13, 6 x 7 = 42. The Universe operates in base 13. That's why everyone's luck is messed up. -- Phil Fraering pgf@srl05.cacs.usl.edu 318/365-5418 "I'm a personal visionary. I can see into the future, only way off to the side." - Stephen Wright "How about a dragon that breathes neutrons instead of fire? Kills the elves, leaves the buildings intact..." - Nick Szabo Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!csn!boulder!happy.colorado.edu!kskelm From: kskelm@happy.colorado.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: galactic ftp sites Message-ID: <1992Apr15.110813.1@happy.colorado.edu> Date: 15 Apr 92 17:08:13 GMT References: <1992Apr14.172948.959@desire.wright.edu> Sender: news@colorado.edu (The Daily Planet) Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder Lines: 13 Nntp-Posting-Host: excel.colorado.edu In article <1992Apr14.172948.959@desire.wright.edu>, cse0935@desire.wright.edu writes: > Does anyone have a list of the newest inter-planetary/inter-glalatic > ftp sites? > my favorite is hooman.antares.m32.gov don't use 'anonymous', use 'schmuck', and be sure to include your planetary designation with your mailname in the password. > thanks, John Prikkel( cse0935@desire.wright.edu Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!news.bbn.com!noc.near.net!mars.caps.maine.edu!maine.maine.edu!io10081 From: IO10081@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (The Xanadian) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: ELECTRONIC IMPLANTS MADE BY HUMANS Message-ID: <92106.134022IO10081@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> Date: 15 Apr 92 17:40:22 GMT References: <9204150013.AA14598@echidna.swdc.stratus.com> Organization: University of Maine System Lines: 14 Now something has just occurred to me... and it may belong in talk.religion. misc, but here goes: I read in a book about the Antichrist a looong time ago about how the Antichrist would have each human being tagged with this '666' number. Could it *be*, that this microelectronic tracking device is the predecessor to the 'number'? The way 'Samurai_Writer' put it, it would seem, to me, that it, in fact, *is*. OK, enough palaver for now. *grin* Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!vjmurphy From: vjmurphy@carina.unm.edu (Phred T. Platypus) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: The Greys speak Message-ID: Date: 15 Apr 92 19:27:21 GMT Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque Lines: 121 > all aliens communicate in the New Agey manner of the Pleiadians, check > out the disciplined English style (best read in a fast monotone, not! ^^^^^^^^^^^ I think "tortured" would be a better word. As a public service, I have simplified the wordiness in the message. You would think that the aliens would have taken basic English courses. I guess not. Of course, I do not believe in this stuff at all. >BEGINNING OF MESSAGE... > The ability of the human sociological spectrum to conceptualize >the existence of the phenomena (UFO) and its resultant effect upon the >cultural advancement of human civilization will be made manifest >within a measurable amount of time/space continuum. In accordance with > The effect of UFOs on people's beliefs and culture will soon be apparent. >the eventual purpose of the "Network" consensus, there is ample >communicative formulation in program to maintain "Network" direct >observance (physical contact) in support of mutual contact >involvement. There can be free exchanges of information absolutely We should meet the aliens soon. >designed to enhance the occurrence of "network" contact and ongoing >monitoring of "Network" subjects. The eldership has determined a >definite relative fundamental multitudinous act of ongoing direct We will keep abducting the same people. >observance (close encounter) experiments. The data assimilated >regarding the experiments is continually examined by the "Network" >analysts, and the full findings distributed within the "Network" >operations. We've told others about our experiments. > The individual amount of examined data can be verified and >classified within the "Network" Space Center, and is injected for >reference purposes in multicomplex retrieval banks. Upon approval of >the "Network" eldership, the available data is implemented within the >progressional direct observance procedures. There can be no partial The data is now at the intergalactic library. >utilization of the assimilated data. The subject involved is then >inculcated with the desired data which is given in either active or >full dormant status (unconscious). We plant info in the minds of the abductees. > There must be intense precautions taken to insure there is no >actual resultant vitiation regarding the "Network" subject. The >ability of the "Network" to enunciate the inculcated program to >maintain the continual duality of purpose concerning the contacts is >accomplished through an intact inculcated monitor. The transmittal of Make sure you don't hurt the abductee. >"Network" linguistical symbols is due inpart to enable the subject to >communicate via random transmittal data which will contribute to the >understanding and enhancement of the meaning of the "Network" and the >populace of human civilization. The progressive contacts between the > The abductee will tell people this info a bit at a time. >"Network" and selected "Network" subjects will continue. A plot of > We will keep abducting the same people. I think they already said this. >geographical areas involved in direct observance activities is >currently undergoing in in-depth equational analysis. The purpose and >selection will then be considered according to the consensus of the >"Network" eldership. The contact is then initiated. Point to a map - pick a person in that area. > Data is then integrated into a "Network" lexicon and the >implication involving the subject are determined. Calculations are >then transmitted throughout the "Network". The "Network" >communications with planetary intergalactic prevalent existent >lifeforms is based upon universal and interuniversal comity. Take notes. >Recognition of interuniversal principles and organizational thought is >directed primarily towards preservation of the evolutionary spectrum >and the advancement of human civilizations. Interferrance into the >entire direction of the planetary scale of the selected planet is >prohibited... The Pleiadian races have agreed, as have the Council of >Dorado and the Horologium Assembly. The Eldership and other >quadriuniversal representatives are in full and complete agreement >with all tenets of interuniversal comity. The forthcoming observance The Prime Directive: Don't mess with the civilization. >of "Network" vehicles will be manifest. The "Network" has monitored >the progress of inculcated data and resultant documentation. The > We've read your notes. >utilization of laser light amplification devices to initiate activity >with the resultant intention to videotape "Network" vehicles is >considered an allowable activity and will be permitted upon >affirmation that the videotape use is guarded and restricted. Pictures and video allowed. Boy, think of all the psychic energy the aliens could have conserved. -- "You ask me if sex is one of the most _\_\ _/_/ Phred Platypus important things in life? Absolutely. _\_\ _/_/ Grammarian of Vengeance But the lack of it is even likelier _\_\_/_/ [ vjmurphy@carina.unm.edu ] to drive you nuts." -- Harlan Ellison _\_/ Vincent J. Murphy Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!ames!bionet!raven.alaska.edu!acad2.alaska.edu!asljl From: asljl@acad2.alaska.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space Subject: THE FEDERATIONERS HAVEN'T DIED! Message-ID: <1992Apr15.133734.1@acad2.alaska.edu> Date: 15 Apr 92 17:37:34 GMT Sender: news@raven.alaska.edu (USENET News System) Organization: University of Alaska Lines: 25 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5293 sci.space:29054 Nntp-Posting-Host: acad2.alaska.edu Hi Remeber when a person put a note about a group wanting to go to the moon? Yes they are still alive and well. They amazingly enough, have recieved a lot of support from varying outlying areas. such as M.I.T < a group there has been corresponding with them, Florida, amd Southern California. As it stands now they are in the process of making the blue prints to finance the project the spokeof earlier. For those of you who do not know what i am talking about, the group is working on a way to get to space with out the assitance of nasa. The project is trying to create a drive crystal that if succesful will go beyond using rocket fuel. It's a long description. I think it could work. For those who are interested in an up date. The Dream is trying to do a push up. It's been on its face for some time now but as about three weeks ago it has been trying to do a push up. The project has been working on a way to finance this little jewel and they may have found a way. In trying to think on how to create money for it. they deicied to create 2 microelectronic gagdets, These, if a patent is granted, may create the money we need to build the drive engine to get off this planet. Yes I am well a ware of how this sounds. but one can hope and dream. At any rate I have written you all to see if any one of you are interested and to show that the group has not died. I hope that there are still some interested souls out there who long for the stars and are interested in the group working on going there. With out Nasa or the governments help. Yes the person writing this is none other than I, Lady Rhavyn. Remember, Free will is the good of the cosmos, and may the force be with you! Path: ns-mx!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!Malfera From: Malfera@cup.portal.com (Dan M Healy) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Pheidians and Greys.... Message-ID: <57414@cup.portal.com> Date: 15 Apr 92 22:14:30 GMT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 11 Maybe the Greys wouldn't want to use a computer simulatation because us humans are just so damn lovable. :) Malfera@cup.portal.com Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!ukma!widener!beyonet!beyo From: beyo@beyonet.UUCP (Steve Urich) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFO meeting in Berlin Message-ID: <340@beyonet.UUCP> Date: 16 Apr 92 00:34:30 GMT References: <126017.29E95880@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Organization: Beyonet Network Lines: 48 Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews) writes: [...] => > Virgil Armstrong, USA, Sponsor, as secret service => > officer he works => > on the recovery of the first => > UFO, found 1948 in => > the USA. => =>Meiner Erinnerung nach, war Armstrong Astronaut in der fruehern Tagen des US Space Program. Ich habe nichts von seiner Roswell-Aktivitaeten gehoert. Sind Sie sicher, dass diesen Mann gutglaeubig ist? Entw. echt Astronaut od. echt Roswellzeuge? Woher haste dass gelesen dass der Virgil ein weltraumfahrer war? Ich glaube nicht dass Virgil Armstrong erst ein `Secret Service' agent wahr und dann blotzlich seinem beruf verandert. :-) =>[To our American listeners -- I'm wondering if *anyone* has heard of Virgil Armstrong's involvement in the Roswell case? I've never heard of this guy. Could it be a *different* Virgil Armstrong? Different? Sounds like too much magic "UH-HUH" ingredient to me :-). If he was in the Secret Service its probably a phoney name. There was a Neal Armstrong and I think a Virgil Armstrong that were Astronauts. I vaguely remember Virgil (Astronaut) Armstrong, didn't he die in a fire accident on the ground while they were waiting for lift off? =>Best, => Clark BTW Clark, have you heard of Jim Schaffer lately? If he calls your BBS tell him I said hello. I haven't seen him around for a couple months now. I tried sending you mail before but I don't remember if it bounced or that you couldn't send mail thru the fido gate gismo or whatever. Steve PS Did you ever get anything back from that Book Brokers in Florida??? -- ############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ############### ##|_|########## Bensalem, PA USA |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|########## ###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ############### #### #### snark!beyonet!beyo |when I hit the Screen" #### #### ## |_| ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project ## |_| ## ## ##-----------------------------------------------## ## #### #### Packet Radio: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.#SEPA.PA.USA.NA #### #### _###############_______________________________________________###############_ Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!uwm.edu!linac!att!rutgers!psuvax1!psuvm!ccb104 From: CCB104@psuvm.psu.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFO meeting in Berlin Message-ID: <92106.214555CCB104@psuvm.psu.edu> Date: 16 Apr 92 01:45:55 GMT References: <126017.29E95880@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> <340@beyonet.UUCP> Organization: HAM - Hackers Against MUDs Lines: 1 X-Subliminal-Message: IBM/370 assembler is your friend. Don't you mean Virgil "Gus" Grissom(SP?)? Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!anasaz!qip!john From: john@anasaz (John Moore) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <1992Apr16.003806.4972@anasaz> Date: 16 Apr 92 00:38:06 GMT Organization: Anasazi, Inc. Phoenix, AZ, USA Lines: 18 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5297 alt.conspiracy:14127 talk.religion.newage:10069 alt.paranormal:4790 Keywords: In article <1kq0iB1w164w@bluemoon.rn.com> garys@bluemoon.rn.com (Gary Stollman) writes: ]> Prozac is for depression, not paranoia (or schizophrenia which was ]> very evident in the quoted posting). ] ]***** ]Don't make diagnosises unless you are a trained professional...I an't ]crazy, and you ain't no judge of humanity... If you believe what you are posting, you are indeed crazy, but it would of course be hard to convince you of that. -- John Moore NJ7E, 7525 Clearwater Pkwy, Scottsdale, AZ 85253 (602-951-9326) john@anasazi.com ncar!noao!asuvax!anasaz!john anasaz!john@asuvax.eas.asu.edu - - If a field of study has the word "science" in it - it isn't a science - - - - Support ALL of the bill of rights, INCLUDING the 2nd amendment! - - Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!munnari.oz.au!metro!seagoon.newcastle.edu.au!cc.newcastle.edu.au!ccasm From: ccasm@cc.newcastle.edu.au Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Me Message-ID: <1992Apr16.155351.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> Date: 16 Apr 92 05:53:51 GMT References: <4jkj2yn.anson@netcom.com> <92094.112608IO00198@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> <1992Apr10.140520.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> <1992Apr14.172913.21985@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <1992Apr15.140148.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> Sender: news@seagoon.newcastle.edu.au Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA Lines: 54 In article , pgf@usl.edu (Phil G. Fraering) writes: > ccasm@cc.newcastle.edu.au writes: > >>In article <1992Apr14.172913.21985@beaver.cs.washington.edu>, pullen@cs.washington.edu (Walter D. Pullen) writes: >>> In article <1992Apr10.140520.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> ccasm@cc.newcastle.edu.au writes: >>>>In article <92094.112608IO00198@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>, >>>>>IO00198@MAINE.MAINE.EDU writes: >>>>> The number is 42, but it's not God, it's the answer to the meaning of the >>>>> universe. But what the hell's the question ?!!? >>>> >>>>For all those who haven't seen Douglas Adams' HITCHIKERS GUIDE TO THE UNIVERSE >>>>trilogy: after millions of years of calculation by the most powerful computer >>>>the answer was indeed 42. The question had been forgotten by then, but was >>>>assumed to be "the meaning of life". To find out the question they travelled >>>>back in time to observe it being written in the dust by primitive man: >>>> >>>> 6 x 8 = ? >>> >>> Shouldn't the question be 6 x *7* = ? >>> >>> ...crap deleted.... >>> >>> hence the answer is 42!!! >>> >>> (Of course, this is just my interpretation. :) >>> > >>Cheez! Some people are so serious they never see the irony !!!! >>Perhaps you could also have posted that the answer was wrong, = 48, not 42 :-) >>This point in Douglas Adam's (fictional) book was the futility of it all and >>the meaningless need to ask such pointless questions, like the one you just >>asked. 0 0 >> U >> \_/ > > > Not really. In Base 13, > > 6 x 7 = 42. NOT quite! 6base13 x 7base13 = 33 base 13 (= 42base10) > > The Universe operates in base 13. > > That's why everyone's luck is messed up. > > I liked your explanation of 6x9=42 better,.. where 54base10 = 42base13 sorry.:-) Big Al. Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!chaph.usc.edu!royander From: royander@sal-sun109.usc.edu (Roy Anderson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.slack,alt.stupidity,alt.exploding.kibo Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again... Message-ID: Date: 16 Apr 92 06:52:52 GMT References: <1992Apr7.024534.159@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Sender: royander@sal-sun109.usc.edu (Roy Anderson) Reply-To: royander@sal-sun109.usc.edu (Roy Anderson) Distribution: ca Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA Lines: 92 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5299 alt.slack:3028 alt.stupidity:4664 alt.exploding.kibo:206 NNTP-Posting-Host: sal-sun109.usc.edu In article , arg@arghouse.UUCP (G.Argendeli-Sysop) writes: |> klein@kira.egr.msu.edu (Jeffrey Klein) writes: |> |> > In article smedley@milton.u.washington.edu (Willia |> > >bur@soil.gsfc.nasa.gov (Mike Bur) writes: |> > > |> > >>In article <-zlj3qq.raj@netcom.com> raj@netcom.com (Roger Lee) writes: |> > >>>In <1992Apr4.004715.17931@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> bur@ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov |> > >>> |> > >>>>In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Pa |> > >>>>>In article <1992Apr2.015814.14003@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> bur@ultisol.gsfc |> > >>>>>>In article <1992Apr1.020902.587@zip.eecs.umich.edu> fields@zip.eecs.umi |> > >>>>>>>In article <1992Mar31.211150.13627@cs.rose-hulman.edu> waldbyjf@NeXTwo |> > >>>>>>>>In article <1992Mar28.192924.17253@acsu.buffalo.edu> |> > >>>>>>>>majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) writes: |> > >>>>>>>>> sramming@athena.mit.edu (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes: |> > >>>>>>>>> >In article <1992Mar27.033812.25302@acsu.buffalo.edu> |> > >>>>>>>>majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) writes: |> > >>>>>>>>> >>klm@gozer.mv.com (Kevin L. McBride) writes: |> > >>>>>>>>> >>>kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: |> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> In article <1992Mar25.012450.7508@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> |> > >>>>>>>>press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes: |> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >In article <1992Mar20.031338.3813@nntp.uoregon.edu>, |> > >>>>>>>>rtaylor@cie.uoregon.edu (Russ Taylor) writes: |> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> In article kibo@world.std.com (J |> > >>>>>>>>'Kibo' Parry) writes: |> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed] |> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS. |> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper. |> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH. I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOUL |> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*. |> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but on |> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> added your ten cents? A thousand-degree flame on you! |> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!) |> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth? |> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich |> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width. |> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it? |> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >because he made a paste of it |> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it. |> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor |> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >he never was a sailor |> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer. |> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE? PLEASE EXERC |> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT. |> > >>>>>>>>> >>>Okay. |> > >>>>>>>>> >> Come on guys, I think he means it. Don't follow up to this. |> > >>>>>>>>> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious. |> > >>>>>>>>> >Go ahead and follow up. |> > >>>>>>>>> >Or kill me. |> > >>>>>>>>> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess. |> > >>>>>>>>Shhhh! |> > >>>>>>>>> >sramming@athena.mit.edu |> > >>>>>>>>> >M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming 305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge MA |> > >>>>>>>>> >( the nonibo -ibo ) (617) 225-9887 [home] (617) 253-7942 [of |> > >>>>>>>>> No! Don't follow up to this! Whatever you do, _don't_ press |> > >>>>>>>>> that "f" button! It's a sin! It's a sin! This is against the god |> > >>>>>>>>> of bandwidth and all that is wholly! See what you do! You waste a |> > >>>>>>>>> waste and waste until the unthinkable happens! Nay, until the |> > >>>>>>>>> _unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the |> > >>>>>>>>> world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up! My |> > >>>>>>>>> _GOD_! How can you even think it! How can you dream it and still |> > >>>>>>>>> remain sane?!?!? How can it be?!?!?!?! Gah!!!! |> > >>>>>>>>> majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu | The meek shall inherit the earth, |> > >>>>>>>>> v061regm@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu | and the wise keep moving on... |> > >>>>>>>>> Rev. M @P.O. Box 156 O |------------------------------------ |> > >>>>>>>>> Amherst, NY 14226 + |Ask me about the Secret Society! Sh |> > >>>>>>>>What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion? I |> > >>>>>>>>missed the earlier parts. |> > >>>>>>There. No more wasted "Bandwidth" |> > >>>>>Huh? |> > >>>>Duh! |> > >>>NOT! |> > >>Got. |> > >Gott. |> > What? |> Je Ne Comprends Pas.... Pas! Paass the pepper, salty! |> |> --- |> "By this time, my lungs were aching for air!" -MST3K |> Greg Argendeli, System Administrator (arg@arghouse.uucp) |> (bbs) +1 619 563 1084| (Page) +1 619 989 0912 | (Voice) +1 619 528 1209 Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!att!fang!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.drugs,alt.conspiracy,misc.headlines,alt.alien.visitors Subject: EXPOSE: Rockefeller Syndicate - Secret Govt pt 1 (53K) Message-ID: <1992Apr16.040150.19150@bilver.uucp> Date: 16 Apr 92 04:01:50 GMT Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 908 Xref: ns-mx alt.activism:24249 alt.drugs:25132 alt.conspiracy:14134 misc.headlines:21392 alt.alien.visitors:5300 This text is being posted with the intent to EDUCATE those of you who know not the silent and pervasive influence of your hidden masters. Some have looked for shadows of the old illuminati; they look amiss, not seeing that which is all around them. If you know not the "who" and the "why", efforts will be mis-directed. This is NOT a "conspiracy"..nay, it is a very cold and calculated NETWORK of individuals whose intent is nothing short of implementation of a "New World Order"; an oligarchic rein in which *you* serve as little more that slaves in their "technocracy". This network has every intention to implement a cashless society, for it is they who control every aspect of finance and banking over the entire globe. They have had about 100 years to perfect their plans and put them into practice. Please understand that the Bilderbergers, the Council on Foreign Relations, the Tri-lateral Commission,the Institute for Policy Studies, the Roundtables, the "Club of Rome",etc are ALL bound by common denominators of long-standing families ties, and interests and come together as a _single_ policy making body that is known today as "The Committee of 300" . This has also been known as "The Olympians", the "Policy Committee". Don't be mis-led by labels such as "Rockefeller" or "Rothschild"; for these are simply the families who have the mechanisms of control already set in place,but of themselves are not the entire network; that being the "Committee of 300". It is THEY who control the UN, who tell the heads of nations "when to jump and how high", they who are behind the world's illicit drug trade via the CIA and the old British East India links. They who manage the IMF,set policy at GATT conferences. It is they who ARE the "Shadow Government". It is they who manage the CIA,NSA,DIA..the same group that took out JFK and have MURDERED around 173 people in their efforts to suppress the truth about all the links..they who were behind the assassination of RFK,MLK..they who are behind the suppression of truth regarding the MIA's; It is the same group behind E. Howard Hunt, John Singlaub, Ollie North..the very same group who brought down Richard Nixon in Watergate..the same group behind the persecution of the Christic Institute..the same people who were behind Nugan-Hand..the same group that groomed Jimmy Carter for the Presidency..the same group who ARE the "Military-Industrial complex", the same group behind the total militarization of NASA..the same group who ARE "MJ-12", were behind the "Jason Group"..the same behind Project Blue Book, The Condon Committee, the same who started up the NSA..who are responsible for the MURDER of Danny Casalaro..the same group responsible for the world-wide DISINFO campaign regarding the TRUTH of UFO sightings and contacts. The very SAME group who OWN THE MEDIA..ie..The Washington Post, NBC (General Electric),ABC,CBS,The New York Times,etc. The same group behind the the Warren Commission,ad nauseum.. I DO believe I could make a DIRECT connection here with just what CIABASE says on WACKENHUT that also ties in the Shadow Government with UFO related installations; this is but *ONE* connection..there are many,many more that can be and will be ferreted out for exposure. ===== Begin Included article ============================================= Message #6041 - INFO.PARANET Date : 16-Jan-92 19:46 From : Don Ecker To : John Galt Subject : Wackenhut John Galt said: > Wackenhut Corp., one of the nation's largest security firms, said Friday > it has bought the U.S. security operations of ISS International Service > System Inc. The purchase price was not disclosed. ISS International > has more than 700 employees in its U.S. security operations, primarily > in Jacksonville, Los Angeles, Dallas, Atlanta, Cleveland and > Chattanooga, Tenn. In several investigations that I am currently involved in for UFO Magazine as well as my radio show "UFOs Tonite", I have come across the Wackenhut connection. As many of you may know, Wackenhut is responsible for outside security around Area 51 and site S-4. Last year there was a helicopter crash in Las Vegas that killed a number of Wackenhut employees, plus they are involved in the Inslaw scandel. At any rate much more than I can go into here. However************ I checked CIABASE and came up with the following. Incidently, all sources are available for the following information if requested. Read and contemplate. ***************************************************************************** CIABASE FILES ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- CONFLICT, LI PERU, 88-91 PRIVATE SECURITY CORPORATION FORMING IMPORTANT ROLE IN LIC-DRUG OPERATIONS. FROM 1981-91, PERUVIAN SECURITY CORPORATIONS INCREASED FROM 80 TO 350, PLUS 150 UNOFFICIAL ORGANIZATIONS. AMONG THOSE IS WACKENHUT CORP, WHOSE EMPLOYEES CONSIST OF MANY EX-CIA, DEA, FBI MEMBERS. Z 11/90 87 DOMESTIC OP CHILE, CUBA. WACKENHUT CORP OF CORAL GABLES, FLORIDA. PROVIDES SECURITY SYSTEMS THRUOUT WORLD. INMAN WAS DIRECTOR OF CORP PLUS OTHER INFLUENTIAL PERSONS IN 80 WACKENHUT WORKED CLOSELY WITH S. CALIFORNIA'S CABAZON INDIANS AND THEIR TRIBAL ADMINISTRATOR JOHN PHILIP NICHOLS. NICHOLS PER NEWS ARTICLE, BOASTED RE ATTEMPTED ASSASSINATION CASTRO AND SUCCESSFUL ASSASSINATION OF SALVADOR ALLENDE. WACKENHUT/CABAZON CONNECTION OF PARTICULAR INTEREST TO D. CASOLARO WHO DIED IN W.VIRGINIA IN 91 HE ALSO INVESTIGATING OCTOBER SURPRISE AND INSLAW. MICHAEL RICONOSCIUTO - A WEAPONS-SYSTEM DESIGNER AND SOFTWARE SPECIALIST - WAS DIR OF A RESEARCH PROJECT OF WACKENHUT/CABAZON JOINT VENTURE. IN EARLY 80s AFFIDAVIT SAID HE MODIFIED A STOLEN PROMIS SOFTWARE FOR FOREIGN SALES. OTHER INFO ON WACKENHUT. ITT 9/24/81 4-5 FOR EIGHT YEARS INSLAW BATTLING JUSTICE DEPT FOR POSSESSION OF PROMIS, A SOFT-WARE PROGRAM DEVELOPED BY COMPANY OWNER BILL HAMILTON. IN 91 INSLAW WENT PUBLIC AND ALLEGED REAGAN JUSTICE DEPT, AFTER IT HAD STOLEN PROMIS, TURNED IT OVER TO EARL BRIAN. INSLAW ALLEGES SOFTWARE GIVEN BRIAN AS PAYBACK FOR BRIAN'S HELP IN ARRANGING ARMS-FOR- HOSTAGE DEAL WITH IRAN IN 1980 (OCTOBER SURPRISE). PER HAMILTON, BRIAN, WHO RUNS UPI, ALLEGEDLY MARKETED PROMIS TO INTEL AGENCIES OF ISRAEL, JORDAN, IRAQ, CANADA, SOUTH KOREA, LIBYA, ENGLAND, GERMANY, FRANCE, AUSTRALIA, THAILAND, JAPAN, CHILE, GUATEMALA, AND BRAZIL. PER INSLAW, ONCE SOFTWARE USED BY FOREIGN INTEL SERVICES, NATIONAL SECURITY AGENCY (NSA) ABLE INFILTRATE COMPUTERIZED INTEL FILES THOSE COUNTRIES. MODIFICATIONS TO PROMIS ALLEGEDLY DONE BY WACKENHUT CORP. OF CORAL GABLES, FL. HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE INVESTIGATING SCANDAL SINCE 89. ATTORNEY GENERAL THORNBURG, UNDER SUPOENA, RELEASED INSLAW-RELATED FILES - BUT 15 TO 20 FILES MISSING. ITT 9/10/91 4-5 STORY OF DANNY CASOLARO - WHO HAD BEEN SORTING THRU THE S&L DEBACLE, BCCI, IRAN-CONTRA, CONTRA-CONNECTED WACKENHUT CORP., WACKENHUT-CONNECTED INSLAW CASE AND INSLAW-CONNECTED "OCTOBER SURPRISE." ITT 9/10/91 4-5 LIAISON INSLAW PRES BILL HAMILTON SAYS HE HAS INFO THAT PROMIS ILLEGALLY SOLD TO SOUTH KOREA, LIBYA, JORDAN, GREAT BRITAIN (ENGLAND), GERMANY, FRANCE, AUSTRALIA, THAILAND, JAPAN, CHILE, GUATEMALA, BRAZIL, AND CANADA. CANADIAN COMPANY, COMMUNICATIONS CANADA - THE CANADIAN WORKPLACE AUTOMATION RESEARCH CENTER (CWARC) WROTE INSLAW A LETTER. ROYAL CANADIAN MOUNTED POLICE ARE OPERATING PROMIS IN 900 LOCATIONS. MICHAEL RICONOSCIUTO SWORE IN AN AFFIDAVIT THAT WHEN HE DIRECTOR OF WACKENHUT CORP OF CORAL GABLES, FL ONE OF HIS JOBS TO ADAPT PROMIS SOFTWARE. PETER VIDENIEKS AND EARL W. BRIAN WERE FREQUENT VISITORS TO WACKENHUT. RICONOSCIUTO SAID HE TO MODIFY PROMIS FOR IMPLEMENTATION IN LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTEL AGENCIES WORLDWIDE. AFTER TESTIFYING BEFORE HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE INVESTIGATORS, RICONOSCIUTO ARRESTED AND CHARGED WITH SELLING MORE THAN 4 GRAMS OF POTENT SPEED. ITT 6/11/91 11-13 END OF FILE --------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- If you notice the name INMAN in the above, that is Adm. Bobby Inman recently mentioned in Tim Good's book "Alien Liason" and the subject of the January 1992 rebuttal of Bob Oechsler in the MUFON Journel. Best: Don Ecker Director Research UFO Magazine --- FD 1.99c * Origin: ParaNet Alpha-Delta The Data Base (9:1012/3.0) ===End of included article================================================= Also here's something from last year on the ultra secret Bilderberg meeting..what motivations and policies do you think that THEY follow? -----Begin included text--------------------------------------------------- From: campe@thor.uucp (Gary Campe ext ) Newsgroups: alt.activism,talk.politics.misc,misc.headlines Subject: BILDERBERG ANNUAL MEETING SCHEDULED Message-ID: <13155@fpssun> Date: 22 Apr 91 17:56:38 GMT References: The Spotlight Sender: daemon@fpssun Organization: FPS Computing, Beaverton, Oregon Lines: 23 Ad as it appears in The Spotlight dated April 22, 1991: JUNE 7-9 - Bilderberg group meets secretly at Baden-Baden, Germany. Members will fly into Frankfurt, Germany or Stasbourg, France to be taken in government helicopters to a heavily guarded hotel near Baden-Baden, site of secret meeting of world's elite. Agenda items include exploiting Middle East oil and progress toward world government. For information, call David Rocefeller at (914) 631-1634 or his personal valet, Dr. Henry Kissinger at (212) 759-7919. ****************** Have any of you been invited? -- RE-ELECT "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence - it NO-ONE! is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and ========== a fearful master" -- George Washington. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed are mine alone and not that of my employer. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: campe@thor.uucp (Gary Campe ext ) Newsgroups: misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc,alt.conspiracy Subject: Bilderberg Annual Meeting - What was said Message-ID: <14096@fpssun> Date: 28 Jun 91 17:48:41 GMT Sender: daemon@fps.com Followup-To: misc.headlines Distribution: usa Organization: FPS Computing, Beaverton, Oregon Lines: 42 This information was reported in the June 24, 1991 issue of "THE SPOTLIGHT". This is not the entire article, only the highlights. If you would like to read this article in its entirety please refer to the above publication. ---------------------------- The word out of the Bilderberg annual meeting is that there will be another war within the next five years. It was repeatedly stated at the Bilderberg meeting that there will be "other Saddams" in the years ahead who must be dealt with swiftly and efficiently. The Bilderberg group plans a global army at the disposal of the United Nations. It is their hope that the U.N. will become the world government by the year 2000. "A U.N. army must be able to act immediately, anywhere in the world, without delays involved in each country making its own decision whether to participate, based on parochial considerations," said Henry Kissinger. If Americans can be persuaded to surrender warmaking decisions to the U.N., "parochial nationalism" in Briton, France and elsewhere will disappear, Bilderberg speakers said. "The Persian Gulf venture has advanced the cause by years" one speaker said. ---------------------------- So there you have it, the "One Worlders" are still alive and well. Garry -- RE-ELECT "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence - it NO-ONE! is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and ========== a fearful master" -- George Washington. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed are mine alone and not that of my employer. ---End included text--------------------------------------------------------- The following is on the historical perspective of just the Rockefeller and Rothschild connections and in no way attempts to cover every aspect, but will suffice to give you a basis on which to understand how pervasive the Web of influence is and that it is a good deal MORE than "merely a conspiracy". Just WHO makes up the ILLEGAL SHADOW GOVERMNENT,YOUR HIDDEN MASTERS? I ask no one to accept any of this at face value, and would heartily encourage you to perform your own investigation. To that end,I've provided an extensive list of reading materials at the end of this text. And lastly, I would include a very lucid assessment of our situation by John DiNardo, which in my opinion, is absolutely correct. There have been MANY people who are posting such as John, Dave Radcliffe, Rich Winkel and others who have been showing you just *WHO* the CANCER IS. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- If the usurpers of our freedom, the plunderers of our life's earnings, the despoilers of our planet Earth, the deluders of our TV-zombified society, the desecrators of our Constitution can crush the Christic Institute -- than what refuge is left for the few remaining Christic-like organizations to shelter THEM from this Frankenstein Monster government? What refuge is left for you and me, and for our children who will necessarily find themselves forced to riot and spill their blood in the streets during the twenty-first century? It always degenerates to that, you know. We Americans are a lazy, short-sighted bunch. We realize that if we don't earn a living, we will be impoverished. We realize that if we don't brush our teeth, our teeth will rot out of our mouths. We realize that if we don't service our cars, they will fail to operate. Yet, we don't realize -- or we're too lazy to admit -- that if we don't supervise and participate in our system of government to ensure that our Constitution is protected from the greedy, power-mad neurotics whose ambitions drive them to seize the reins of power and wealth vested in our Federal Government, then our libertarian foundations will crumble beneath us, leaving us to fall into the pit of subjugation that the corporate rulers have prepared for us. As we witness our free-fall into the pit, we finally understand that the law is slipping out of our hands; that we and our children will have to resort to meeting in dark rooms and plotting to recover our Constitutional freedoms which the usurpers have seized through television, that great national Svengali -- that opiate of the masses which they have so cleverly employed to sedate, delude and distract us while quietly cuffing our ankles and wrists. How could we be so stupid as to surrender our minds to Big Brother, never suspecting that whenever someone offers you free entertainment, day after day and year after year, it's got to be costing you. Why shouldn't we be as vulnerable to totalitarianism as are the peoples of most other societies around the world. More so, considering the fact that totalitarianism originates from within the military elite. And whose nation has the most savagely powerful military force on the planet? What's worse is that it's not just the military that's militating against our Constitutional freedoms. It's the military-industrial complex. President Eisenhower left office a third of a century ago by warning us that the military-industrial complex is the greatest threat to our freedom. That was as much of a warning as he dared give, lest he meet the doom of his valiant successor who tried to actually BE the President of the United States. How knowledgeable was the General of the Army of the Second World War, Dwight Eisenhower, in his fear of the military-industrial complex? As knowledgeable as President Kennedy is dead! So you see, there really isn't much time left. If we prove to be too lazy now to unite behind Constitutional upholders such as the Christic Institute -- then our children in the twenty-first century will NOT be too frightened to stand up against the bullets of the Wackenhut Security Corporation of Coral Gables, Florida. Because when the oppression becomes intolerable, you, I and anyone would stand up to bullets, rather than go on living in unbearable agony. Ask the Palestinian people who stand up to bullets every day -- or the Rumanian people, or the Guatemalan people, or the Filipino people, or the Chinese people, or the Iranian people, or the Tibetan people, or the Timorese people. If we prove to be too lazy now, OUR generation may even see the day when citizens will speak softly and listen intently for the footsteps of the Gestapo who may finally come to kick down our front door and arrest us for plotting to regain the Constitutional freedoms that were once our heritage. John DiNardo --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Excerpted from the book, "Rape of The Constitution; Death of Freedom" by Gyeorgos C. Hatonn . *** The Rockefeller Syndicate *** ======================================================================== Many American conservatives believe as a matter of faith that the Rockefellers and the Council on Foreign Relations exercise absolute control over the government and the people of the U.S. This thesis can be accepted as a working formula if one remains conscious of the larger issues. Two writers for whom the present writer (E.M) has great respect, Dr. Emanuel Josephson and Morris Bealle, insisted on focusing on the Rockefellers and excluding all other aspects of the World Order. This severely limited the effect of their otherwise groundbreaking work on the Medical Monopoly. This writer advanced a contrary view in "The World Order," fixing upon the Rothschild monetary power, which reached a point of world control by 1885, and its London policy group, the Royal Institute of International Affairs, as the policy makers for what has essentially been, since 1900, a re-established colonial government, functions primarily through the Council on Foreign Relations, but only as the subsidiary of RIIA and through the Rockefeller Foundation, which controls government functions, the educational establishments, the media, the religions and the state legislatures. It is true that the American colonials have "free elections," in which they have the absolute right to vote for one of two opposing candidates, both of whom have been handpicked and financed by the Rockefeller syndicate. This touching evidence of "democracy" serves to convince most Americans that you are indeed a free people. You even have a cracked Liberty Bell in Philadelphia to prove it. American youths have been free since 1900 to be marched off to die in Hegelian wars in which both combatants received their instructions from the World Order. You are free to invest in a stock market in which the daily quantity,price and value of the monetary unit is manipulated and controlled by a Federal Reserve System which is answerable only to the Bank of England. It has maintained its vaunted "independence" from your government control, but this is the only independence it has ever had. The realization that you do indeed live under the dictates of the "Rockefeller Syndicate" can well be the starting point of the long road back of a genuine struggle for American independence. In exposing "the Rockefellers" as agents of a foreign power, which is not merely a foreign power, but a genuine world government, you must realize that this is not merely a group dedicated to making money, but a group which is committed to maintaining the power of a colonial form of government over the American people. Thus the ancient calumny of John D. Rockefeller as a man obsessed by greed (a category in which he has plenty of company) obscures the fact that from the day the Rothschilds began to finance his march towards a total oil monopoly in the United States from their coffers at the National City Bank of Cleveland, Rockefeller was never an independent power, nor does any department of the Rockefeller Syndicate operate as an independent power. You know that the Cosa Nostra, or Mafia, with which the Syndicate is closely allied, has somewhat autonomous power in the regions which have been assigned to that particular "family" by the national directors, but this always implies that that family remains under total control and answerable for everything which occurs in its territory. Similarly, the Rockefeller Syndicate operates under clearly defined spheres of influence. The "charitable" organizations, the business companies and the policy groups, always meld into a working operation, nor can any department of the Syndicate strike out on its own or formulate an independent policy, no matter what may be its justification. The Rockefeller Syndicate operates under the control of the world financial structure, which means that on any given day, all of its assets could be rendered close to worthless by adroit financial manipulation. This is the final control, which ensures that no one can quit the organization. Not only would he be stripped of all assets, but he would be under contract for immediate assassination. The Department of Justice is well aware that the only "terrorists" operating in the United States are the agents of the World Order, but they prudently avoid any mention of this fact. The world financial structure, far from being an unknown or hidden organization, is actually well known and well defined. It consists of the major Swiss Banks; the survivors of the old Venetian-Genoese banking axis; the Big Five of the world grain trade; the British combine, centered in the Bank of England and its chartered merchant banks, functioning through the Rothschilds and the Oppenheimers and having absolute control over their Canadian colony through the Royal Bank of Canada and the Bank of Montreal, their Canadian lieutenants being the Bronfmans, Belzbergs, Reichmanns and other financial operators; and the colonial banking structure in the U.S., controlled by the Bank of England through the Federal Reserve System; the Boston Brahmin families who made their fortunes in the opium trade, including the Delanos and others and the Rockefeller Bank, Chase Manhattan Bank, American Express, the present form of the old Rothschild representatives in the U.S., which includes Kuhn,Loeb Company and Lehman Brothers. It is notable that the Rockefeller Syndicate is far down on the list of the worlds financial structure. Why then is it of such importance? Although it is not the crucial factor in financial decision in the Western Hemisphere, it is the actual working control mechanism of the American colony. The Rockefeller family themselves,like the Morgans,Schiffs and Warburgs, have faded into insignificance, but the mechanism created in their name roars along at full power,still maintaining all of the functions for which it was organized. Since he set up the Trilateral Commission, David Rockefeller has functioned as a sort of international courier for the World Order, principally concerned with delivering working instructions to the Communist bloc,either directly, in New York or by traveling to the area. Laurence Rockefeller is active in the operation of the Medical Monopoly, but his principal interests are in operating various vacation spas in tropical areas. They are the two survivors of the "Fortunate Five," the five sons of John D. Rockefeller, Jr. and Abby Aldrich. John D. Rockefeller, Jr. died in an institution in Tucson,Arizona and was hastily cremated. John D. Rockefeller III died in a mysterious accident on a New York Parkway near his home. Nelson Rockefeller, named after his grandfather, died in the arms of a TV journalist. It was later revealed that he had also been in the arms of another TV journalist at the same time; the death was hushed up for many hours. It was generally believed that he ran afoul of his Columbian drug connection, the disagreement hardly being trivial; it involved several billion dollars in drug profits which had not been properly apportioned. Winthrop Rockefeller died an alcoholic in the arms of his black boy friend. He had been interviewed on television by Harry Reasoner to explain his hasty move from New York to Arkansas. Winthrop learned that his black boy friend, an Army sergeant who apparently taught him the mysteries of drill,refused to live in New York. To celebrate this alliance, Winthrop Rockefeller gave magnificiently to Negro causes,including the Urban League building on East 48th Street in New York. A plaque on the second floor notes that it was his gift; it might well have stated "From Hadrian to his Antinous." We do not wish to imply that the Rockefellers no longer have influence, but that the major policy dictates of the Rockefeller Syndicate are handed down by other caps, of whom they continue to be a visible force. Through the person of David Rockefeller, the family is sometimes called "the first family of the Soviet Union." Only he and Dr. Armand Hammer, the moving force behind USTEC, have permanent permission to land their private planes at the Moscow Airport. Others would suffer the fate of KAL 007. David Rockefeller's most significant trip to the Soviet Union may have been the fateful day when he landed in Moscow, having been told to inform Khrushchev that he was "through". The Russians are very health conscious, and a scientist had sent information to Khrushchev that the use of chemical fertilizers in the Soviet Union presented a threat to the people. Khrushchev then announced a major change in the Soviet farm policy, centering around a reduction in the use of chemicals. This was upsetting to the head of the world's Chemical Fertilizer trust, David Rockefeller, and he responded with a terse one word command, "Out". Both the Rockefeller family fortune and the considerable portion set aside in the foundations of the Rockefeller Syndicate are effectively insulated against any type of government control. FORTUNE magazine noted August ,1986, that John D. Rockefeller,Jr. had created trusts in 1934 which now amounted to some $2.3 billion; another 200 million had been set aside for the Abby Rockefeller branch. The five sons had trusts which in 1986 amounted to $2.1 billion. These trusts had originally amounted to only $50 million each,showing the increase in their assets as well as inflation during the ensuing half century. FORTUNE estimated the 1986 total Rockefeller wealth as $3.5 billion of which $900 million was in securities and real estate. They owned 45% of the Time Life Building; Nelson Rockefeller's International Basic Economy Corporation had been sold to a British company in 1980. For years, the Rockefeller family had deliberately kept the rents low in its major holding, Rockefeller Center, a $1.6 billion investment yielding an annual return of 1% . This was a convenient manuever for tax purposes, and a good one at that. Much of the Rockefeller wealth might be attributed to old John D.'s rapacity and ruthlessness; its origins are indubitably based in his initial financing from the National City Bank of Cleveland, which was identified in Congressional reports as one of the three Rothschild banks in the United States and by his later acceptance of the guidance of Jacob Schiff of Kuhn,Loeb Company, who had been born in the Rothschild house in Franfort and was now the principal Rothschild representive (but unknown as such to the public) in the United States. With the seed money from the National City Bank in Cleveland, old John D. Rockefeller soon laid claim to the title of the "most ruthless American". It is more than likely that it was this quality which persuaded the Rothschilds to back him. Rockefeller realized early in the game that the oil refinery business, which could offer great profits in a short time, also was at the mercy of uncontrolled competition. His solution was a simple one--crush all competition. The famous Rockefeller dedication to total monopoly was simply a business decision. Rockefeller embarked on a campaign of coercing all competing oil refineries out of business. He attacked on a number of fronts, which is also a lesson to all would be entrepreneurs. First, he would send a minion, not known to be working for Rockefeller, with an offer to buy the competing refinery for a low price,but offering cash. If the offer was refused, the competitor would then come under attack from a competing refinery which greatly undercut his price. He might also suffer a sudden strike at his refinery,which would force him to shut down. Control of labor through unions has always been a basic Rockefeller technique. Like the Soviet Union, they seldom have labor trouble. If these techniques failed, Rockefeller would then be saddened by a reluctant decision to use violence; beating the rival workers as they went to and from their jobs, or burning or blowing up the competing refinery. These techniques convinced the Rothschilds that they had found their man.They sent their personal representative,Jacob Schiff, to Cleveland to help Rockefeller plan further expansion. At this time,the Rothschilds controlled 95% of all railroad mileage in the United States,through the J.P. Morgan Company and Kuhn Loeb Company,according to official Department of Commerce figures for the year 1895. J.P. Morgan mentions in his "Who's Who" listing that he controlled 50,000 miles of U.S. railways. Schiff worked out an elaborate rebate deal for Rockefeller,through a dummy corporation,South Improvement Company. These rebates ensured that no other oil company could survive in competition with the Rockefeller firm. The scheme was later exposed,but by that time Rockefeller had achieved a virtual monopoly of the oil business in the U.S. The daughter of one of his victims, Ida Tarbell,whose father was ruined by Rockefeller's criminal operations, wrote the first major expose of the Standard Oil Trust. She was promptly denounced as a "muckracker" by the poseur, Theodore Roosevelt, who claimed to be a "trustbuster." In fact, he ensured the dominance of the Standard Oil Trust and other giant trusts. During the next half century, John D. Rockefeller was routinely caricatured by socialist propagandists as the epitome of the ruthless capitalist. At the same time, he was the principal financier of the world Communist movement, through a firm called American International Company. Despite the fact that the House of Rothschild had already achieved world control,the sound and the fury was directed exclusively against its two principal representatives,John D. Rockefeller and J.P. Morgan. One of the few revelations of the actual state of affairs appeared in TRUTH magazine,Dec 16,1912, which pointed out that "Mr. Schiff is head of the great private banking house of Kuhn, Loeb Company (I knew some of you bright readers would finally pick up that these names are all attached to the greatest pharmaceutical firms in the world--even into your very vitamin supplement business!), which represents the Rothschild interests on your side of the Atlantic. He is described as a financial strategist and has been for years the financial minister of the great impersonal power known as Standard Oil." Note that the name of Rockefeller was not mentioned in the quote. Because of these concealed factors,it was a relatively simple matter for the American public to accept the "fact" that the Rockefellers were the preeminent power in your country. This myth was actually clothed in the apparel of power,the Rockefeller Oil Trust becoming the "military-industrial complex" which assumed political control of the nation; the Rockefeller Medical Monopoly attained control of the health care of the nation, and the Rockefeller Foundation, a web of affiliated tax emempt creations, effectively controlled the religious and educational life of the nation. The myth succeeded in its goal of camouflaging the hidden rulers, the Rothschilds. After Eustis Mullins and a few others, had been exposing this charade for some twenty-five years a new myth began to be noised about in American conservative circles, effectively propagated by active double agents. This myth found a host of eager believers,because it heralded a growing crack in the monolithic power which had been oppressing all the peoples of the world. This "new" revelation was that a struggle to the death for world power had developed between the Rockefellers and the Rothschilds. According to this startling development, one faction or the other, depending on which agent you were listening to, had gained control of the Soviet Union and would use its power as the basis for achieving the overthrow of the other faction. The sudden death of several members of the Rockefeller family was cited as "proof" that such a struggle was taking place, although no Rothschild is known to have succumbed during this "war." This ignored the general understanding that Nelson Rockefeller had been "eliminated" as the result of losing deposit slips for several billion dollars of drugs from the Columbian cartel, or that the other Rockefeller deaths showed no trace of a "Rothschild connection." Having maintained extensive files on this situation for several decades, the writer (E.M.),could not believe anyone could be so misinformed as to think that "the Rockefellers" were now trying to seize power from the Rothschilds, at a time when the influence of members of the Rockefeller family was already in great decline, their family finances being handled by John J. McCloy, and other faithful retainers;none of the retainers would have been willing to engage in a genuine power struggle, as they were faceless managers who lived only for their weekly paycheck. They had no ambitions of their own. Nevertheless, many hopeful Americans grasped at the will-o-the-wisp notion the Rockefellers were now "good Americans" who were willing to risk all to overthrow the Rothschilds. Amazingly enough, this pernicious story persisted for almost a decade before being relegated to the curiosities of history. Like J.P. Morgan, who had begun his commercial career by selling the U.S. Army some defective guns, the famous Hall carbine affair, John D. Rockefeller also was a war profiteer during the Civil War;he sold unstamped Harkness liquor to Federal troops at a high profit, gaining the initial capital to embark on his drive for monopoly. His interest in the oil business was a natural one; his father,William Rockefeller had been "in oil" for years. William Rockefeller had become an oil entrepreneur after salt wells at Tarentum, near Pittsburgh, were discovered in 1842 to be flowing with oil. The owners of the wells,Samuel L. Kier, began to bottle the oil and sell it for medicinal purposes. One of his earliest wholesalers was William Rockefeller. The "medicine" was originally labelled "Kier's Magic Oil". Rockefeller printed his own labels, using "Rock Oil" or "Seneca Oil", Seneca being the name of a well known Indian Tribe. Rockefeller achieved his greatest notoriety and his greatest profits by advertising himself as "William Rockefeller, the Celebrated Cancer Specialist". It is understandable that his grandsons would become the controlling power behind the scenes of the world's most famous cancer treatment center and would direct government funds and charitable contributions to those areas which only benefit the Medical Monopoly. William Rockefeller spared no claim in his flamboyant career. He guaranteed "All Cases of Cancer Cured Unless They Are Too Far Gone". Such were the healing powers that he attributed to his magic cancer cure that he was able to retail it for $25 a bottle, a sum then equivalent to two month's wages. The "cure" consisted of a few well known diuretics, which had been diluted by water. This carnival medicine show barker could hardly have envisioned that his descendants would control the greatest and the most profitable Medical Monopoly in recorded history. As an itinerant "carnie", a traveling carnival peddler, William Rockefeller had chosen a career which interfered with developing a stable family life. His son, John, rarely saw him, a circumstance which has inspired some psychological analysts to conjecture that the absence of a father figure or parental love may have contributed to John D. Rockefeller's subsequent development as a money mad tyrant who plotted to maim, poison and kill millions of his fellow Americans during almost a century of his monopolistic operations and whose influence, reaching up from the grave, remains the most dire and malignant presence in American life. This may have been a contributing factor--however, it is also possible that he was totally evil. It is hardly arguable that he is probably one of the most Satanic figures in American history. Evil being defined as anything that moves the spiritual aspect of beingness away from God as influenced through another. It has long been a truism that you can find a horse thief or two in any prominent American family. In the Rockefeller family, it was more than true in the case of William who seemed to have faithfully followed the precepts of the Will of Canaan throughout his career, "love robbery, love lechery". He fled from a number of indictments for horse stealing and you know how serious that is, finally disappearing altogether as William and Rockefeller and magically re-emerging as a Dr. William Levingston of Philadelphia, a name which he retained for the rest of his life. An investigative reporter at Joseph Pulitzer's New York World received a tip that was followed up. The World then disclosed that William Avery Rockefeller had died May 11, 1906 in Freeport, Illinois, where he was interred in an unmarked grave as Dr. William Levingston. William Rockefeller's vocation as a medicine man greatly facilitated his preferred profession of horse thief. As one who planned to be in the next county by morning, it was a simple matter to tie a handsome stallion to the back of his wagon and head for the open road. It also played a large part in his vocation as a woman-chaser; he was described as being "woman-mad". On June 28,1849, he was indicted for raping a hired girl in Cayuga,New York; he later was found to be residing in Oswego, New York and was forced once again to decamp for parts unknown. He had no difficulty in financing his woman-chasing interests from the sale of his miraculous cancer cure and from another product, his "Wonder Working Liniment", which he offered at only two dollars a bottle. It consisted of crude petroleum from which the lighter oils had been boiled away, leaving a heavy solution of paraffin,lube oil and tar, which comprised the "liniment". William Rockefeller's original miracle oil survived until quite recently as a concoction called Nujol, consisting principally of petroleum and peddled as a laxative. It was well known that Nujol was merely an advertising sobriquet meaning "new oil", as opposed apparently, to "old oil". Sold as an antidote to constipation, it robbed the body of fat-soluble vitamins, it being a well-established medical fact that mineral oil coated the intestine and prevented the absorption of many needed vitamins and other nutritional needs. Its makers added carotine as a sop to the health-conscious, but it was hardly worth the bother. Nujol was manufactured by a subsidiary of Standard Oil of New Jersey, called Stanco, whose only other product, manufactured on the same premises, was the famous insecticide, Flit. Nujol was hawked from the Senate Office Building in Washington for years during a more liberal interpretation of "conflict of interest". In this case, it was hardly a conflict of interest, because the august peddler,Senator Royal S. Copeland, never had any interests other than serving the Rockefellers. He was a physician whom Rockefeller had appointed as head of the New York State Department of Health and later financed his campaign for the Senate. Copeland's frank display of commercialism amazed even the most blase' Washington reporters. He devoted his Senate career to a daily program advertising Nujol. A microphone was set up in his Senate office each morning, the first order of business being the Nujol program, for which he was paid $75,000 a year, an enormous salary in the 1930's and more than the salary of the President of the United States. Senator Copeland's exploits earned him a number of nicknames on Capital Hill. He was often called the Senator from the American Medical Association, because of his enthusiastic backing for any program launched by the AMA and Morris Fishbein. More realistically, he was usually referred to as "the Senator from Standard Oil". He could be counted on to promote any legislation devised for the greater profit of the Rockefeller monopoly. During congressional debate on the Food and Drug Act in 1938, he came under criticism from Congresswoman Leonor Sullivan, who charged that Senator Copeland, a physician who handled the bill on the Senate floor, frankly acknowledged during the debate that soap was exempted from the law because the soap manufacturers, who were the nation's largest advertisers, would otherwise join with other big industries to fight the bill. Congresswoman Sullivan complained that, "Soap was officially declared in the law not to be a cosmetic. The hair dye manufacturers were given a license to market known dangerous products, just so long as they placed a special warning on the label - but what woman in a beauty parlor ever sees the label on the bulk container in which hair dye is shipped?" Just as the elder Rockefeller had spent his life in the pursuit of his personal obsession, women, so his son John was equally obsessed, being money-mad instead of woman-mad, totally committed to the pursuit of ever-increasing wealth and power. However, the principal accomplishments of the Rockefeller drive for power, the rebate scheme for monopoly, the chartering of the foundations to gain power over American citizens,the creation of the central bank, the Federal Reserve System, the backing of the World Communist Revolution and the creation of the Medical Monoply, all came from the Rothschilds or from their European employees. We cannot find in the records of John D. Rockefeller that he originated any of these programs. The concept of the tax exempt charitable foundation originated with the Rothschild minion, George Peabody, in 1865. The Peabody Educational Foundation later became the Rockefeller Foundation and many of you should recall that item. Not that you might have been around then but it continues to inadvertently be referred to as such. It is unlikely that even the diabolical mind of John D. Rockefeller could have conceived of this devious twist. A social historian has described the major development of the late nineteenth century, when charitable foundations and world Communism became important movements, as one of the more interesting facets of history, perhaps equivalent to the discovery of the wheel or fire. This new discovery was the concept developed by the rats, who after all have rather highly developed intelligences, that they could trap people by baiting traps with little bits of cheese. The history of mankind since then has been the rats catching humans in their traps. Socialism -- indeed, any government program -- is simply the rat baiting the trap with a smidgeon of cheese and catching himself a human. Congressman Wright Patman, chairman of the House Banking and Currency Committee, noted from the floor of Congress that the establishment of the Rockefeller Foundation effectively insulated Standard Oil from competition. The controlling stock had been removed from market manipulation or possible buyouts by competitors. It also relieved Standard Oil from most taxation, which then placed a tremendous added burden on individual American taxpayers. Although a Rockefeller relative by marriage, Senator Nelson Aldrich, Republican majority leader in the Senate, had pushed the General Education Board charter through Congress, the Rockefeller Foundation charter proved to be more difficult. Widespread criticism of Rockefeller's monopolistic practices was heard, and his effort to insulate his profits from taxation or takeover was seen for what it was. The charter was finally pushed through in 1913 (the significant Masonic numeral 13 -- 1913 was also the year of the progressive income tax and of the enactment of the Federal Reserve Act). Senator Robert F. Wagner of New York, another Senator from Standard Oil (there were quite a few), ramrodded the Congressional approval of the charter. The charter was then signed by John D. Rockefeller, John D. Rockefeller, Jr., Henry Pratt Judson, president of the Rockefeller established University of Chicago,Simon Flexner, director of the Rockefeller Institute, Starr Jameson, described in "Who's Who" as "personal counsel to John D. Rockefeller in his benevolences", and Charles W. Eliot, president of Harvard University. The Rockefeller Oil Monopoly is now 127 years old, yet in 1911, the Supreme Court, bowing to public outrage, had ruled that it had to be broken up. The resulting companies proved to be no problem for the Rockefeller interests. The family retained a two per cent holding in each of the "new" companies, while the Rockefeller foundations took a three per cent holding in each company. This gave them a five per cent stock interest in each company; a one per cent holding in a corporation is usually sufficient to maintain working control. The involvement of the Rockefellers in promoting the World Communist Revolution also developed from their business interests. There was never any commitment to the Marxist ideology; like anything else, it was there to be used. At the turn of the century, Standard Oil was competing fiercely with Royal Dutch Shell for control of the lucrative European market. Congressional testimony revealed that Rockefeller had sent large sums of money to Lenin and Trotsky to instigate the Communist Revolution in 1905. His banker, Jacob Schiff had previously financed the Japanese in their war against Russia and had sent a personal emissary, George Kennan to Russia to spend some twenty years in promoting revolutionary activity against the Czar. When the 1905 revolution failed, Lenin was placed "in storage" in Switzerland until 1907. Trotsky was brought to the U.S., where he lived rent free on the Standard Oil property at Bayonne,New Jersey, its tank field. When the Czar abdicated, Trotsky was placed on a ship with three hundred Communist revolutionaries from the Lower East Side of New York. Rockefeller obtained a special passport for Trotsky from Woodrow Wilson and sent Lincoln Steffens with him to make sure he was returned safely to Russia. For traveling expenses, Rockefeller placed a purse containing $10,000 in Trotsky's pocket. On April 13,1917, when the ship stopped in Halifax, Canadian Secret Service officers immediately arrested Trotsky and interred him in Nova Scotia. The case became an international cause celebre, as leading government officials from several nations frantically demanded Trotsky's release. The Secret Service had been tipped off that Trotsky was on his way to take Russia out of the war, freeing more German armies to attack Canadian troups on the Western Front. Prime Minister Lloyd George hurriedly cabled orders from London to the Canadian Secret Service to free Trotsky at once - they ignored him. Trotsky was finally freed by the intervention of one of Rockefeller's most faithful stooges, Canadian Minister Mackenzie King, who had long been a "labor specialist" for the Rockefellers. King personally obtained Trotsky's release and sent him on his way as the emissary of the Rockefellers, commissioned to win the Bolshevik Revolution. Thus, Dr. Armand Hammer, who loudly proclaimed his influence in Russia as the friend of Lenin, has an insignificant claim compared to the role of the Rockefellers in backing world Communism. Although Communism, like other "isms", had origined with Marx's association with the House of Rothschild, it enlisted the reverent support of John D. Rockefeller because he saw Communism for what it is, the ultimate monopoly, not only controlling the government, the monetary system and all property, but also a monopoly which, like the corporations it emulates, is self-perpetuating and eternal. It was the logical progression from his Standard Oil monopoly. An important step on the road to world monopoly was the most far-reaching corporation invented by the Rothschilds. This was the international drug and chemical cartel, I. G. Farben. Called "a state within a state" , it was created in 1925 as Interessen Gemeinschaft Farbeinindustrie Aktien Gesellschaft, usually known simply as I. G. Farben, which simply meant "The Cartel". It had originated in 1904, when the six major chemical companies in Germany began negotiations to form the ultimate cartel, merging Badische Anilin,Bayer,Agfa,Hoechst,Weiler-ter-Meer, and Greisheim-Electron. The guiding spirit,as well as the financing, came from the Rothschilds, who were represented by their German banker, Max Warburg of M. M. Warburg Company, Hamburg. He later headed the German Secret Service during World War I and was personal financial advisor to the Kaiser. When the Kaiser was overthrown, after losing the war, Max Warburg was not exiled with him to Holland; instead he became the financial advisor to the new government. Monarchs may come and go, but the real power remains with the bankers. While representing Germany at the Paris Peace Conference, Max Warburg spent pleasant hours renewing family ties with his brother, Paul Warburg, who, after drafting the Federal Reserve Act at Jekyll Island, had headed the U.S. banking system during the war. He was in Paris as Woodrow Wilson's financial advisor. I. G. Farben soon had a net worth of six billion marks, controlling some five hundred firms. Its first president was Professor Carl Bosch. During the period of the Weimar Republic, I.G. Farben officials,seeing the handwriting, began a close association with one called Adolf Hitler, supplying much needed funds and political influence. The success of the I.G. Farben cartel had aroused the interest of other industrialists. Henry Ford was favorably impressed and set up a German branch of Ford Motor Company. Forty percent of the stock was purchased by I.G. Farben. I.G. Farben then established an American subsidiary called American I.G., in cooperation with Standard Oil of New Jersey. Its directors included Walter Teagle, President of Standard Oil, Paul Warburg of Kuhn,Loeb Company and Edsel Ford, representing the Ford interests. John Foster Dulles, for the law firm, Sullivan and Cromwell, became the attorney for I.G., frequently traveling between New York and Berlin on cartel business. His law partner, Arthur Dean, is now director of the $40 million Teagle Foundation which was set up before Teagle's death. Like other fortunes, it had become part of the network. =============Continued in Rockefeller Syndicate Part 2=================== -- -* Don Allen *- // Only | Tavistock + Esalen = "New Age" Internet: dona@bilver.uucp \X/ Amiga | Rothschild + Rockefeller = FED UUCP: .uunet!peora!bilver!vicstoy!dona | UN + Maitreya = "Twilight Zone" "A democracy cannot be both ignorant and free" - Thomas Jefferson Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!att!fang!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.drugs,alt.conspiracy,misc.headlines,alt.alien.visitors Subject: EXPOSE: Rockefeller Syndicate - Secret Govt pt 2 (39K) Message-ID: <1992Apr16.040336.19341@bilver.uucp> Date: 16 Apr 92 04:03:36 GMT Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 691 Xref: ns-mx alt.activism:24250 alt.drugs:25133 alt.conspiracy:14135 misc.headlines:21393 alt.alien.visitors:5301 ==============Rockefeller Syndicate Part 2============================== Like John Foster Dulles, Arthur Dean has been a director of American Banknote for many years; this is the firm that supplies the paper for your dollar bills. Dean also has been an active behind the scenes government negotiator at conferences on disarmament. Dean was also a director of Rockefeller's American Ag & Chem Company. He was a director of American Solvay,American Metal and other firms. As attorney for the wealthy Hothschild family, who owned Climax Molybdenum and American Metal, Dean became director of their family foundation, the Hothschild Foundation. Dean is director emeritus of the Council of Foreign Relations, the Asia Foundation, International House, Carnegie Foundation, and the Sloan Kettering Cancer Center. In 1930,Standard Oil announced that it had purchased an alcohol monopoly in Germany, a deal which had been set up by I.G. Farben. After Hitler came to power,John D. Rockefeller assigned his personal press agent, Ivy Lee, to Hitler to serve as a fulltime advisor on the rearmament of Germany, a necessary step for seting up World War II. Standard Oil then built large refineries in Germany for the Nazis and continued to supply them with oil during World War II. In the 1930's, Standard Oil was receiving in payment from Germany large shipments of musical instruments and ships which had been built in German yards. The dreaded Gestapo, the Nazi police force, was actually built from the worldwide intelligence network which I.G. Farben had maintained since its inception. Herman Schmitz, who had succeeded Carl Bosch as head of I.G., had been personal advisor to Chancellor Breuning; when Hitler took over, Schmitz then became his most trusted secret counselor. So well concealed was the association that the press had orders never to photograph them together. Schmitz was named an honorary member of the Reichstag, while his assistant, Carl Krauch, became Goering's principal advisor in carrying out the Nazis' Four Year Plan. A business associate Richard Krebs, later testified before the House Un-American Activities Committee, "The I.G. Farbinidustrie, I know from personal experience, was already, in 1934, completely in the hands of the Gestapo." This was a misstatement; the I.G. Farben had merely allied itself WITH the Gestapo. In 1924, Krupp Industries was in serious financial difficulty; the firm was saved by a $10 million cash loan from Hallgarten & Company and Goldman Sachs, two of Wall Street's best known firms. The planned re-armament of Germany was able to proceed only after Dillon Read floated $100 million of German bonds on Wall Street for that purpose. It was hardly surprising that at the conclusion of the Second World War, General William Draper was appointed Economic Czar of Germany, being named head of the Economic Division of the Allied Military Government. He was a partner of Dillon Read. In 1939, Frank Howard, a vice-president of Standard Oil, visited Germany. He later testified, "We did our best to work out complete plans for a modus vivendi which would operate throughout the term of the war, whether we came in or not." At this time, American I.G. had on its board of directors Charles Mitchell, president of the National City Bank, the Rockefeller Bank, Carl Bosch, Paul Warburg, Herman Schmitz and Schmitz' nephew, Max Iigner. Although his name is hardly well known, Frank Howard was for many years a key figure in Standard Oil operations as director of its research and its international agreements. He was also chairman of the research committee at Sloan Kettering Institute during the 1930's; his appointee at Sloan Kettering, Dusty Rhoads, headed the experimentation in the development of chemotheraphy -- which killed more humans than most wars. During the Second World War,Rhoads headed the Chemical Warfare Service (talents should never be wasted), in Washington at U.S. Army Headquarters. It was Frank Howard who had persuaded Alfred Sloan and Charles Kettering of General Motors in 1939 to give their fortunes to the Cancer Center (and now you know why cancer won't ever be cured), which then took on their names. A member of the wealthy Atherton family, Frank Howard (1890-1964) had married a second time, his second wife being a leading member of the British aristocracy, the Duchess of Leeds. The first Duke of Leeds was titled in 1694, Sir Thomas Osborne, who was one of the key conspirators in the overthrow of King James II (could this be the lineage of the King James version of the Bible,do you suppose?). And then came the seizure of the throne of England by William III in 1688. Osborne had made peace with Holland during the reign of King Charles II, and singlehandedly promoted the marriage of Mary,daughter of the Duke of York, to William of Orange in 1677. The Dictionary of National Biography notes that Osborne "for five years managed the House of Commons by corruption and enriched himself." He was impeached by King Charles II for treasonous negotiation with King Louis XIV and imprisoned in the Tower of London from 1678 to 1684. After his release, he again became active in the conspiracy to bring in William of Orange as King of England and secured the crucial province of York for him. William then created him Duke of Leeds. The placing of William on the throne of England made it possible for the conspirators to implement the crucial step in their plans,setting up the Bank of England in 1694. This in turn enabled the Amsterdam bankers to gain control of the wealth of the British Empire. Osborne's biography also notes that he was later accused of Jacobinite intrigues and was impeached for receiving a large bribe to procure the charter for the East India Company in 1695, but "the proceedings were not ever concluded". He left a very large fortune. The 11th Duke of Leeds was Minister to Washington from 1931 to 1935, Minister to the Holy See from 1936 to 1947, that is, throughout the Second World War. One branch of the family married into the Delano family becoming relatives of Franklin Delano Roosevelt. A cousin,Viscount Chandros, was a prominent British official,serving in the War Cabinet under Churchill from 1942 to 1945, later becoming a director of the Rothschild firm,Alliance Assurance, and Imperial Chemical Industries. Frank Howard was the key official in maintaining relations between Standard Oil and I.G. Farben. He led the development of synthetic rubber, which was crucial to Germany in the Second World War; he later wrote a book "Buna Rubber". He was also the consultant to the drug firm,Rohm and Haas,representing the Rockefeller connection within that firm. In his later years, he resided in Paris, but continued to maintain his office at 30 Rockefeller Center,New York. Walter Teagle, the president of Standard Oil, owned 500,000 shares of American I.G., these shares later becoming the basis of the Teagle Foundation. Herman Metz, who was also a director of the American I.G., was president of H.A. Metz Company,New York, a drug firm wholly owned by I.G. Farben of Germany. Francis Garvan, who had served as Alien Property Custodian during the First World War, knew many secrets of I.G. Farben's operations. He was prosecuted in 1929 to force him to remain silent. The action was brought by the Department of Justice through Attorney General Merton Lewis, the former counsel for Bosch Company. John Krim, former counsel for the German Embassy in the U.S., testified that Senator John King had been on the payroll of the Hamburg American Line for three years at a salary of fifteen thousand dollars a year; he appointed Otto Kahn as treasurer of his election fund. Homer Cummings, who had been Attorney General for six years, then became counsel for General Aniline and Film at a salary of $100,000 a year. During the Second World War, GAF was supposedly owned by a Swiss firm; it came under considerable suspicion as an "enemy" concern and was finally taken over by the United States government. John Foster Dulles had been director of GAF from 1927 to 1934; he was also a director of International Nickel, which was part of the network of I.G. Farben firms. Dulles was related to the Rockefeller family through the Avery connection. He was attorney for the organization of a new investment firm,set up by Avery Rockefeller, in 1936 which was called Schroder-Rockefeller Company. It combined operations of the Schroder Bank, Hitler's personal bank, and the Rockefeller interest. Baron Kurt von Schroder was one of Hitler's closest confidants, and a leading officer of the SS. He was head of the Keppler Associates, which funneled money to the SS for leading German Corporations. Keppler was the official in charge of Industril Fats during Goering's Four Year Plan, which was launched in 1936. American I.G. changed its name to General Aniline and Film (GAF) during the Second World War, but it was still wholly owned by I.G. Chemie of Switzerland, a subsidiary of I.G. Farben of Germany. It was headed by Gadow, brother-in-law of Herman Schmitz. I.G. Farben's international agreements directly affected the U.S. war effort, because they set limits on U.S. supplies of magnesium,synthetic rubber and crucial medical supplies. The director of I. G. Farben's dyestuffs division, Baron George von Schnitzler, was related to the powerful von Rath family, the J.H. Stein Bankhaus which held Hitler's bank account and the von Mallinckrodt family, the founders of the drug firm in the United States. Like other I.G. officials, he had become an enthusiastic supporter of the Hitler regime. I.G. Farben gave four and a half million riechmarks to the Nazi Party in 1933; by 1945, I.G. had given the Party 440 million riechmarks, a sum which equalled all contributions by I.G. to all other recipients during that period. One scholar of the Nazi era, Antony Sutton, has focused heavily on German supporters of Hitler, while ignoring the crucial role played by the Bank of England and its Governor, Sir Montague Norman, in financing the Nazi regime. Sutton's position on this problem may have been influenced by the fact he is British. In view of the outspoken statements from Adolf Hitler about Jewish influence in Germany, it would be difficult to explain the role of I.G. Farben in the Nazi era. Peter Hayes' definitive study of I.G. Farben shows that in 1933, it had 10 Jews on its governing boards. It has been previously pointed out that I.G., from its inception, was a Rothschild concern, formulated by the House of Rothschild and implemented through its agents, Max Warburg in Germany and Standard Oil in the United States. Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands joined the SS during the early 1930's. He then joined the board of an I.G. subsidiary, Farben Bilder, from which he took the name of his postwar supersecret policy making group, the Bilderbergers. Farben executives played an important role in organizing the Circle of Friends for Heinrich Himmler, although it was initially known as Keppler's Circle of Friends, Keppler being the chairman of an I.G. subsidiary. His nephew, Fritz J. Dranefuss, was the personal assistant to Heinrich Himmler. Of the forty members of the Circle of Friends, which provided ample funds for Himmler, eight were executives of I.G. Farben or its subsidiaries. Despite the incredible devastation of most German cities from World War II air bombings, the I.G. Farben building in Frankfurt, one of the largest buildings there, "miraculously" survived intact. A large Rockefeller mansion in Frankfurt also was left untouched by the war, despite the saturation bombing. Frankfurt was the birthplace of the Rothschild family. It was hardly coincendental that the postwar government of Germany,Allied Military Government, should set up its offices in the magnificent I.G. Farben building. This government was headed by General Lucius Clay, who later became a partner of Lehman Brothers bankers in New York. The Political Division was headed by Robert Murphy, who would preside at the Nuremburg Trials where he was successful in glossing over the implication of I.G. Farben officials and Baron Kurt von Schroder. Schroder was held a short time in a detention camp and then set free to return to his banking business. The Economic Division was headed by Lewis Douglas, son of the founder of the Memorial Cancer center in New York, president of Mutual Life and director of General Motors. Douglas was slated to become U.S. High Commissioner for Germany, but he agreed to step aside in favor of his brother-in-law,John J. McCloy. By a most interesting circumstance, Douglas, McCloy and Chancellor Konrad Adenauer had all married sisters, the daughters of John Zinsser, a partner of J.P. Morgan Company. As the world's pre-eminent cartel, I.G. Farben and the drug companies which it controlled in the United States through the Rockefeller interests were responsible for many inexplicable developments in the production and distribution of drugs. From 1908 to 1936, I.G. held back its discovery of sulfanilimide, which would become a potent weapon in the medical arsenal. In 1920, I.G. had signed working agreements with the important drug firms of Switzerland,Sandoz and Ciba-Geigy. In 1926, I.G. merged with Dynamit-Nobel, the German branch of the dynamite firm, while an English firm took over the English division. I.G. officials then began to negotiate with Standard Oil officials about the prospective manufacture of synthetic coal, which would present a serious threat to Standard Oil's monopoly. A compromise was reached with the establishment of American I.G., in which both firms would play an active role and share in the profits. Charles Higham's book "Trading with the Enemy", offers ample documentation of the Rockefeller activities during the Second World War. When Hitler's bombers were dropping tons of explosives on London, they were paying royalties on every gallon of gasoline they burned to Standard Oil. Nelson Rockefeller moved to Washington after the U.S. involvement in World War II, where Roosevelt named him Coordinator of Inter-American Affairs. Apparently his principal task was to coordinate the refueling of German ships in South America from Standard Oil tanks. He also used that office to obtain important South American concessions for his private firm, International Basic Exonomy Corporation, including a corner on the Columbian coffee market. He immediately raised the price, a move which enabled him to buy several billion dollars worth of real estate in South America and also gave rise to the sterotype of the "Yanqui Imperialissimo". It also gave rise to several billion dollars worth of drug-growing real estate. After World War II, twenty-four German executives were prosecuted by the victors, all of them connected with I.G. Farben, including eleven officers of I.G. Eight were acquitted, including Max Iigner, nephew of Herman Schmitz. Schmitz received the most severe sentence, eight years. Iigner actually received three years, but the time was credited against his time in jail waiting for trial, and he was immediately released. The Judge was C. G. Shake and the prosecuting attorney was Al Minskoff. The survival of I.G. Farben was headlined by the WALL STREET JOURNAL on May 3, 1988 --GERMANY BEATS WORLD IN CHEMICAL SALES. Reporter F. O'Boyle listed the world's top five chemical companies in 1987 as: 1). BASF $25.8 billion. 2). Bayer $23.6 billion. 3). Hoechst $23.5 billion. 4). ICI $20 billion, and 5). DuPont $17 billion dollars in chemical sales only. The first three companies are the firms resulting from the "dismantling" of I.G. Farben from 1945 to 1952, by the Allied Military Government, in a process suspiciously similar to the "dismantling" of the Standard Oil empire by court edict in 1911. The total sales computed in dollars of the three spin-offs of I.G. Farben,some $72 billion in visible features. This dwarfs its nearest rivals ICI and DuPont,who together amount to about half. Hoechst then bought Celanese Corp. in 1987 for $2.72 billion. O'Boyle notes that "The Big Three (Farben spin-offs)" still behave just like the old cartel. Each dominates specific areas; head to head competition is limited. Critics know there is collusion but nothing can be done about it and how many taxes do you think these "biggies" pay? Following the war, Americans were told they must support an "altruistic" plan to rebuild Europe, to be called the Marshall Plan, after Chief of Staff George Marshall, who had been labeled on the floor of the Senate by Senator Joseph McCarthy as "a living lie". The Marshall Plan proved to be merely another Rockefeller Plan to loot the American tax-payer. On Dec. 13, 1948, Col Robert McCormick, editor of the CHICAGO TRIBUNE, personally denounced Esso's looting of the Marshall Plan in a signed editorial. The Marshall Plan had been rushed through Congress by a powerful and vocal group, headed by Winthrop Aldrich, president of the Chase Manhattan Bank and Nelson Rockefeller's brother-in-law, ably seconded by Nelson Rockefeller and William Clayton, the head of Anderson,Clayton Company. The Marshall Plan proved to be but one of a number of lucrative postwar swindles, which included the Bretton Woods Agreement,United Nations Relief and Rehabilitation and several more. After World War II, the Rockefellers used their war profits to buy a large share of Union Miniere du Haut Katanga, an African copper lode owned by Belgian interests, including the Societe Generale, a Jesuit controlled bank. Soon after their investment the Rockefellers launched a bold attempt to seize control of the mines through sponsoring a local revolution, using as their agent the Grangesberg operation. This enterprise had originally been developed by Sir Ernest Cassel,financial advisor to King Edward VII -- Cassel's daughter later married Lord Mountbatten, a member of the British royal family, who was also related to the Rothschilds. Grangesberg was now headed by Bo Hammarskjold, whose brother Dag Hammarskjold was then Secretary General of the United Nations. Bo became a casualty of the Rockefeller revolution when his plane was shot down during hostilities in the Congo. The Rockefeller intervention in the Congo was carried out by their able lieutenants,Dean Rusk and George Ball of the State Department and by Fowler Hamilton. In the United States, the Rockefeller interests continue to play a major political role. Old John D's treasurer at Standard Oil, Charles Pratt bequeathed his New York mansion to the Council of Foreign Relations as its world headquarters. His grandson,George Pratt Schultz, became Secretary of State in the Reagan Administration. The Rockefellers also wielded a crucial role through their financing of the Trotskyite Communist group in the United States, the League of Industrial Democracy, whose directors include such staunch "anti- Communists" as Jeane Kirkpatrick and Sidney Hook. The Rockefellers were also active on the "rightwing" front through their sponsorship of the John Birch Society. To enable Robert Welch, a 32nd degree Mason, to devote all of his time to the John Birch Society, Nelson Rockefeller purchased his family firm, the Welch Candy Company, from him at a most handsome price. Welch chose the principal officers of the John Birch Society from his acquaintances at the Council on Foreign Relations. For years afterwords, American patriots were puzzled by the consistent inability of the John Birch Society to move forward on any of its well advertised "anti-Communist" goals. The fact that the society had been set up at the behest of the backers of the world Communist revolution may have played some role in this development. After several decades of futility, the Society was totally discredited by its own record. In a desperate effort to restore its image, William Buckley, the CIA propagandist, launched a "fierce" attack against the John Birch Society in the pages of his magazine the NATIONAL REVIEW. This free publicity campaign did little to revive the moribund organization. The Rockefeller monopoly influence has had its effect on some of New York's largest and wealthiest churches. Trinity Church on Wall Street, whose financial resources had been directed by none other than J. P. Morgan, owns some forty commercial properties in Manhattan and has a stock portfolio of over $50 million in known figures, which of course, is due to informed investments (some call it insider trading), and actually yields a return of over $25 million a year! Only $2.6 million of this income is spent for charitable work. The rector, who receives a salary of $100,000 a year, lives on the fashionable Upper East Side. Trinity's mausoleum sells its spaces at fees starting starting at $1250 and rising to $20,000 . St Bartholomews, on Fifth Avenue, has an annual budget of $3.2 million a year of which only $100,000 is spent on charity. Its rector resides in a thirteen room apartment on Park Avenue. In medicine, the Rockefeller influence remains entrenched in its Medical Monopoly. If you are curious, get a Physicians Desk Reference and look at the drug firm's names. They control the cancer industry through the Sloan Kettering Cancer Center. The drug firms each have its director from Chase Manhattan Bank, the Standard Oil Company or other Rockefeller firms. The American College of Surgeons maintains a monopolistic control of hospitals through the powerful Hospital Survey Committee, with members Winthrop Aldrich and David McAlpine Pyle representing the Rockefeller control. A medical fraternity known as the "rich man's club", the New York Academy of Medicine, was offered grants for a new building by the Rockefeller Foundation and the Carnegie Foundation, its subsidiary group. This "seed money" was then used to finance a public campaign which brought in funds to erect a new building. For Director of the new facility, the Rockefellers chose Dr. Lindsley Williams, son-in-law of the managing partner of Kidder, Peabody, a firm strongly affiliated with the J. P. Morgan interest (the J. P. Morgan Company had originally been called the Peabody Company,remember?). Williams was married to Grace Kidder Ford. Although Dr. Williams was widely known to be an incompetent physician, his family's connections were impeccable. He became a factor in Franklin D. Roosevelt's election campaign when he publicly certified that Roosevelt, a cripple in a wheelchair who suffered from a number of oppressive ailments, was both physically and mentally fit to be the President of the United States. Dr. Williams' opinion, published in an article in the widely circulated COLLIER'S MAGAZINE, allayed public doubts about Roosevelt's condition. As a result, Williams was to be offered a newly created post in Roosevelt's cabinet, Secretary of Health. The Rockefellers had greatly extended their business interests in the impoverished Southern states by establishing the Rockefeller Sanitary Commission. It was headed by Dr. Wickliffe Rose, a longtime Rockefeller henchman, whose name appears on the original charter of the Rockefeller Foundation. Despite its philanthropic goals, the Rockefeller Sanitary Commission required financial contributions from each of the eleven Southern states in which it operated, resulting in the creation of State Departments of Health in those states and opening up important new spheres of influence for their Drug Trust. In Tennessee, the Rockefeller representative was a Dr. Olin West, who moved on to Chicago to become the power behind the scenes at the American Medical Association (AMA) for the next forty years, as secretary and general manager. The Rockefeller Institute for Medical Research finally dropped the "Medical Research" part of its title; its president Dr. Detlev Bronk, resided in a $600,000 mansion furnished by this charitable operation. Rockefeller's General Education Board has spent more than $100 million to gain control of the nation's medical schools and turn your physicians into physicians of the "allopathic" school, dedicated to surgery and heavy use of drugs. The Board, which had developed from the original Peabody Foundation, also spent some $66 million for Negro education. One of the most far-reaching consequences of the General Education Board's political philosophy was achieved with a mere $6 million dollar grant to Columbia University in 1917, to set up a "progressive" Lincoln School. From this school descended the national network of progressive educators and social scientists, whose pernicious influence closely paralleled the goals of the Communist Party, another favorite recipient of the Rockefeller millions. From its outset, the Lincoln School was described frankly as a revolutionary school for the primary and secondary schools for the entire United States. It immediately discarded all theories of education which were based on formal and well established disciplines, that is, the McGuffy Reader type of education which worked by teaching such subjects as Latin and algebra, thus teaching children to think logically about problems. And look where you've come today! Rockefeller Institute financial fellowships produced many prominent workers in the U.S. atomic programs, such as J. Robert Oppenheimer, who was later removed from government laboratories as a suspected Soviet agent. Although most of his friends and associates were known as Soviet agents, this was called "guilt by association". The Rockefeller Foundation created a number of spinoff groups, which now plague the nations with a host of ills, one of them being the Social Science Research Council, which single-handedly spawned the nationwide "poverty industry" , a business which expends some $130 plus billion a year of taxpayer funds while grossing some $6 billion income for its practioners. The money, which would amply feed and house all the nation's "poor", is dissipated through a vast administrative network which awards generous concessions to a host of parasitic "consultants". Despite years of research, the surface is only scratched regarding the Rockefeller influences. The huge Burroughs Wellcome drug firm, for instance is wholly owned by the "charitable" Wellcome Trust. This trust is directed by Lord Oliver Franks, a key member of the London Connection which maintains the United States as a British Colony. Franks was Ambassador to the United States from 1948 to 1952. He is recently a director of the Rockefeller Foundation, as its principal representative in England. He is also a director of the Schroder Bank, which handled Hitler's personal bank account, director of the Rhodes Trust in charge of approving Rhodes scholarships, visiting professor at the University of Chicago and chairman of Lloyd's Bank, one of England's Big Five. Other Rockefeller Foundation spinoffs include the influential Washington thinktank, the Brookings Institution, the National Bureau of Economic Research, whose findings play a critical role in manipulating the stock market; the Public Administrative Clearing House, which indoctrinates the nation's municipal employees; the Council of State Governments, which control the nation's state legislatures; and the Institute of Pacific Relations, the most notorious Communist front in the United States. The Rockefellers appeared as directors of this group, funnelling money to it through their financial advisor, Lewis Lichtenstein Strauss, of Kuhn, Loeb Company. The Rockefellers have maintained their controlling interest in the Chase Manhattan Bank; owning five per cent of the stock. One per cent is generally considered to give working control of a bank. Through this one asset, they control $42.5 billion worth of assets in known figures. Chase Manhattan interlocks closely with the Big Four insurance companies, of which three, Metropolitan, Equitable and New York Life had over $113 billion in assets as far back as 1969 --what do you think it might be today? With the advent of the Reagan Administration in 1980, the Rockefeller interests sought to obscure their longtime support of world Communism by bringing to Washington a vocally "anti-Communist" administration. Reagan was soon wining and dining Soviet premiers as enthusiastically as had his predecessor, Jimmy Carter. The Reagan campaign had been managed by two officals of Bechtel Corporation, its president, George Pratt Schultz, a Standard Oil heir, and his counsel, Caspar Weinberger. Schultz was named Secretary of State, Weinberger, Secretary of Defense. Bechtel had been financed by the Schroder-Rockefeller Company, the 1936 alliance between the Schroder Bank and the Rockefeller heirs. The Rockefeller influence also remains preeminent in the monetary field. Since November, 1910 , when Senator Nelson Aldrich chaired the secret conference at Jekyll Island which gave you the Federal Reserve Act, the Rockefellers have kept you within the sphere of the London Connection. During the Carter Administration, David Rockefeller generously sent his personal assistant, Paul Volcker, to Washington to head the Federal Reserve Board. Reagan finally replaced him in 1987 with Alan Greenspan, a partner of J.P. Morgan. Their influence on your banking system has remained constant through many a financial coup on their part; one of the most profitable being the confiscation of privately owned gold from American citizens by Roosevelt's edict. Your citizens had to turn over their gold to the privately owned Federal Reserve System and wasn't that about as clever a maneuver as you could possibly conjure up? The Constitution permits confiscation for purposes of eminent domain, but prohibits confiscation for private gain. The gold's new owners then had the gold revalued from $20 an ounce to $35, giving them an enormous profit. Are you getting a little more interested in learning what comes next with the new Constitution, the Newstates, Gun Confiscation and the already in operation Constitution? I certainly hope so for you are teetering on the brink of the abyss. Surely by now in reviewing the all pervasive influence of the Rockefellers and their foreign controllers, the Rothschilds, in every aspect of your American Life -- as well as your overseas brethren, I hope every American citizen is asking "What can be done?" Well, right can prevail only when the citizens actively seek JUSTICE. JUSTICE can prevail only when each citizen realizes that it is his God-given duty to mete out justice. History has documented all the crimes of the usurpers of your Constitution. You must be learning the painful lesson that the Rockefeller monopolists exercise their evil power almost solely through federal and state agents. You had a brave one, Ron Paul, who ran for President of the U.S. on an eminently sensible and practical campaign to abolish the Federal Reserve System, abolish the FBI, abolish the Internal Revenue Service, and abolish the CIA. How many of you have even heard of this man? It has been recognized and known that the function of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, ostensibly set up to "fight crime", has been to harass and isolate political dissidents to over 90% of its actions - including writers of this type of information. The criminal syndicalists are now looting the American nation of one trillion or more dollars every year, of which about one-third, more than some three hundred billion dollars per year, represents the profitable depredations of the Drug Trust and its medical subsidiaries. Before a sustained effort to combat these depredations can be mounted, Americans must make every effort to regain their health. You will now unite to restore your national health -- which will in turn restore your national pride, the resumption of your role as the inventors and producers of the modern world, along with the custodianship of the world's hopes and dreams of liberty and freedom. It is all but too late -- what will you do? What are you going to do as individuals to demand return to your Constitution and the values that made you great? David Rockefeller now sits on the Board of Turner network, effectively rendering the network useless to anything but replays of drivel -- and got Jane Fonda, who had been a major spoke in the wheel of freedom to boot! He sits on the controlling Board of the forming Native American Museum of History at the Smithsonian, his group has infiltrated and become controllers of Windstar, John Denver's earth group. Ah, the hidden spikes within the rainbow seem endless, do they not? Now who might be telling you truth? everything I have written herein can be checked out in your libraries or even your national library of Congress -- every step can be ferreted out with enough effort -- but it is a waste of time when you could be taking some action in your own defense. The gun control bill *today* is the beginning of the final curtain to the Second Amendment -- you will soon have your right to bear arms rendered null and void -- and what is worse, you who are uninformed -- will applaud it just as you did the "invasion of Panama". Then *who* will you blame for your enslavement? ==========Suggested Reading List========================================= Brzezinski,Zbigniew - "Between Two Ages: America's Role in The Technotronic Era" New York: The Viking Press, 1970 Collier,Peter and David Horowitz. "The Rockefellers: An American Dynasty" New York: New American Library, 1976 Domhoff, G. William. "The Powers That Be: Process of Ruling Class Domination in America" New York: Vintage Books, 1978 Shoup,Laurence H. and Minter,William. "Imperial Brain Trust: The Council on Foreign Relations and United States Policy" New York: Monthly Review Press, 1977 Sklar,Holly "Trilateralism: The Trilateral Commission and Elite Planning for World Management" Boston: South End Press, 1980 Josephson, Matthew "The Robber Barons: The Great American Capitalists" Orlando,Florida: Harcourt Brace Jovanovich, 1962 Lundberg,Ferdinand "The Rockefeller Syndrome" New Jersey: Lyle Stuart Inc, 1975 Patman,Wright "Chain Banking: Stockholder and Loan Links of 200 Largest Member Banks" Washington,D.C. U.S. Government Printing Office,1963 Josephson,Emmanuel M. "The Federal Reserve Conspiracy and The Rockefellers: Their Gold Corner" New York: Chedney Press, 1968 Lundberg,Ferdinand "The Rich and The Super Rich" New Jersey: Lyle Stuart, 1968 Roth,Cecil "The Magnificent Rothschilds" Robert Hale Co, 1939 Rothschild de Guy "The Whims of Fortune", New York: Random House, 1985 Morton,Frederic "The Rothschilds" Curtis Publishing Co., 1961 Sutton,Antony "The War On Gold" 76 Press, California 1977 Sutton,Antony "Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler" 76 Press,California 1976 Sutton,Antony "Trilaterals over Washington" Scottsdale,Arizona : The August Corporation, 1979 Kitson,Arthur "The Bankers Conspiracy" 1933 Goldman,Steinberg et al., "Dope Inc." New York: New Benjamin Franklin House Publishing Company, N.Y. 1978 Bach, G.L. "Federal Reserve Policy Making" New York: Knapf 1950 Larson, Martin A. "The Federal Reserve and Our Manipulated Dollar" Old Greenwich,Conn Devin Adair Co., 1975 E.M. House "Phillip Dru,Administrator" New York: B.W. Huebsch 1912 Smith,Howden D. Arthur "Men Who Run America" New York: Bobbs Merril 1935 Hapgood,David "The Screwing of the Average Man" New York: Doubleday & Co., 1974 Josephson,Emanuel M. "The Truth About The Rockefellers: Public Enemy No. 1; Studies in Criminal Psychopathy" New York: Chedney Press, 1964 Manning,Thomas G. "The Standard Oil Company: The Rise of a National Monopoly" New York: Holt,Rinehart and Winston, 1962 Stern,Phillip M. "The Rape of The Taxpayer" New York: Random House 1973 Tarbell,Ida "The History of the Standard Oil Company" (The masterwork on the original company). 2 vols. New York: MacMillan, 1905 Shoup,Laurence "The Carter Presidency and Beyond: Power and Politics in the 1980s" Palo Alto,California: Ramparts Press, 1979 Ball,George W.,ed. "Global Companies: The Political Economy of World Business" Englewood Cliffs,N.J. Prentice-Hall, 1975 Who's Who in America 1890-1983 A.N. Marquis Co. The Great Soviet Encyclopaedia, MacMillan,London, 1973 Warburg,Paul "The Federal Reserve System" New York: MacMillan, 1930 Winkler K. John "Morgan the Magnificent" New York: Vanguard, 1930 Rockester,Anna "Rulers of America, A Study of Finance Capital" New York: International Publishers, 1936 Standard and Poor's Register of Directors 1928-1983 Senate Committee Hearings on Federal Reserve Act, 1913 House Committee Hearings on Federal Reserve Act, 1913 Federal Reserve Directors: A Study of Corporate and Banking Influence. Staff Report,Committee on Banking,Currency and Housing, House of Representatives, 94th Congress,2nd Session,August 1976 Directory of Directors,London 1896-1983 Mullins,Eustace "The Secrets of The Federal Reserve" Bankers Research Institute,PO Box 1105,Staunton,Va. 1983 Hatonn,C. Gyeorgos "Rape Of The Constitution; Death of Freedom" Vol II. Tehachapi,California: America West Publishers, 1990 Zajac,John "The Delicate Balance" Lafayette,Louisiana: Prescott Press, Inc., 1989,1990/Huntington House - Distrib. Ashman,R. Charles "Kissinger: The Adventures of Super-Kraut" Secaucus, New Jersey: Lyle Stuart, 1972 Crump,Spencer "Ride The Big Red Cars - The Pacific Electric Story" Glendale,California: Trans-Anglo Books, 1983 Coleman,John "The Club of Rome, The Enemy of Mankind" Arcadia, Lousiana: Christian Defense League, 1983 Coleman,John "Conspirators Hierarchy: The Committee of 300" Tehachapi,California: America West Publishers PO Box 6451 93582, 1992 ed. -- -* Don Allen *- // Only | Tavistock + Esalen = "New Age" Internet: dona@bilver.uucp \X/ Amiga | Rothschild + Rockefeller = FED UUCP: .uunet!peora!bilver!vicstoy!dona | UN + Maitreya = "Twilight Zone" "A democracy cannot be both ignorant and free" - Thomas Jefferson Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!stl!stc!patb From: patb@tcom.stc.co.uk (Patrick Brosnan) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Me Message-ID: <1992Apr16.100646.4946@tcom.stc.co.uk> Date: 16 Apr 92 10:06:46 GMT References: <1992Apr10.140520.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> <1992Apr14.172913.21985@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <1992Apr15.140148.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> Sender: news@tcom.stc.co.uk (System Administration) Organization: BNR Europe, New Southgate, London. Lines: 7 In article <1992Apr15.140148.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> ccasm@cc.newcastle.edu.au writes: >Cheez! Some people are so serious they never see the irony !!!! While I'm sure Walter saw the funny side, I thought his article was an interesting exercise in numerology. Pat Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!darwin.sura.net!wupost!psuvax1!psuvm!aly101 From: ALY101@psuvm.psu.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.slack,alt.stupidity,alt.exploding.kibo Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again... Message-ID: <92107.112047ALY101@psuvm.psu.edu> Date: 16 Apr 92 15:20:47 GMT References: <1992Apr7.024534.159@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Distribution: ca Organization: Penn State University Lines: 122 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5303 alt.slack:3037 alt.stupidity:4681 alt.exploding.kibo:214 In article , royander@sal-sun109.usc.edu (Roy Anderson) says: > >In article , arg@arghouse.UUCP (G.Argendeli-Sysop) >writes: >|> klein@kira.egr.msu.edu (Jeffrey Klein) writes: >|> >|> > In article smedley@milton.u.washington.edu >(Willia >|> > >bur@soil.gsfc.nasa.gov (Mike Bur) writes: >|> > > >|> > >>In article <-zlj3qq.raj@netcom.com> raj@netcom.com (Roger Lee) writes: >|> > >>>In <1992Apr4.004715.17931@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> >bur@ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov >|> > >>> >|> > >>>>In article kibo@world.std.com (James >'Kibo' >Pa >|> > >>>>>In article <1992Apr2.015814.14003@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> >bur@ultisol.gsfc >|> > >>>>>>In article <1992Apr1.020902.587@zip.eecs.umich.edu> >fields@zip.eecs.umi >|> > >>>>>>>In article <1992Mar31.211150.13627@cs.rose-hulman.edu> >waldbyjf@NeXTwo >|> > >>>>>>>>In article <1992Mar28.192924.17253@acsu.buffalo.edu> >|> > >>>>>>>>majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) writes: >|> > >>>>>>>>> sramming@athena.mit.edu (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes: >|> > >>>>>>>>> >In article <1992Mar27.033812.25302@acsu.buffalo.edu> >|> > >>>>>>>>majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) writes: >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>klm@gozer.mv.com (Kevin L. McBride) writes: >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> In article <1992Mar25.012450.7508@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> >|> > >>>>>>>>press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes: >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >In article <1992Mar20.031338.3813@nntp.uoregon.edu>, >|> > >>>>>>>>rtaylor@cie.uoregon.edu (Russ Taylor) writes: >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> In article >kibo@world.std.com >(J >|> > >>>>>>>>'Kibo' Parry) writes: >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed] >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS. >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper. >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH. I WISH YOU PEOPLE >WOUL >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*. >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, >but >on >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> added your ten cents? A thousand-degree flame on you! >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!) >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth? >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width. >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it? >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >because he made a paste of it >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it. >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >he never was a sailor >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer. >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE? PLEASE >EXERC >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT. >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>Okay. >|> > >>>>>>>>> >> Come on guys, I think he means it. Don't follow up to >this. >|> > >>>>>>>>> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious. >|> > >>>>>>>>> >Go ahead and follow up. >|> > >>>>>>>>> >Or kill me. >|> > >>>>>>>>> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess. >|> > >>>>>>>>Shhhh! >|> > >>>>>>>>> >sramming@athena.mit.edu >|> > >>>>>>>>> >M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming 305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge >MA >|> > >>>>>>>>> >( the nonibo -ibo ) (617) 225-9887 [home] (617) 253-7942 >[of >|> > >>>>>>>>> No! Don't follow up to this! Whatever you do, _don't_ press >|> > >>>>>>>>> that "f" button! It's a sin! It's a sin! This is against the >god >|> > >>>>>>>>> of bandwidth and all that is wholly! See what you do! You e >wast >a >|> > >>>>>>>>> waste and waste until the unthinkable happens! Nay, until the >|> > >>>>>>>>> _unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the >|> > >>>>>>>>> world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up! >My >|> > >>>>>>>>> _GOD_! How can you even think it! How can you dream it and >still >|> > >>>>>>>>> remain sane?!?!? How can it be?!?!?!?! Gah!!!! >|> > >>>>>>>>> majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu | The meek shall inherit the , >earth >|> > >>>>>>>>> v061regm@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu | and the wise keep moving on... >|> > >>>>>>>>> Rev. M @P.O. Box 156 O >|------------------------------------ >|> > >>>>>>>>> Amherst, NY 14226 + |Ask me about the Secret Society! >Sh >|> > >>>>>>>>What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion? >I >|> > >>>>>>>>missed the earlier parts. >|> > >>>>>>There. No more wasted "Bandwidth" >|> > >>>>>Huh? >|> > >>>>Duh! >|> > >>>NOT! >|> > >>Got. >|> > >Gott. >|> > What? >|> Je Ne Comprends Pas.... Pas! >Paass the pepper, salty! Grass is healthy, mostly. > > > > > > > >|> >|> --- >|> "By this time, my lungs were aching for air!" -MST3K >|> Greg Argendeli, System Administrator (arg@arghouse.uucp) >|> (bbs) +1 619 563 1084| (Page) +1 619 989 0912 | (Voice) +1 619 528 1209 > > Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!news2me.ebay.sun.com!exodus.Eng.Sun.COM!appserv.Eng.Sun.COM!sun!amdcad!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: Date: 16 Apr 92 14:29:27 GMT References: Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 53 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5304 alt.conspiracy:14148 sci.skeptic:22730 alt.paranormal:4791 I sent a copy of some of Gary Stollman's postings to a friend who is knowledgeable about such things. He replies, "I really enjoyed the Stollman material. When Horowitz said, "Fight Back!" I don't think he meant with toy guns. He is a prize catch. The presence of Capgras' syndrome makes him a rara avis. Genital mutilation is a familiar theme in the literature on psychosis... By way of explanation, he included the following: "The Capgras Syndrome and its Psychopathology" by B. Frank Vogel, M.D. (Am J Psychiatry 131:8, August 1974): ABSTRACT: Five case reports indicate that the Capgras syndrome, a condition in which the patient believes that a person closely related to him is actually an impostor, is far less rare than has been commonly accepted. The author discusses the psychodynamics, suggests that the syndrome itself is a massive defense system against disintegrative intrapsychic conflicts, and examines the clear-cut ego defense mechanisms employed. TEXT: Since it was first described in 1923, the Capgras syndrome has been accorded unusual respect and treatment because of its supposed rarity. From time to time, single cases have been reported as if each were a rara avis.... Before going into the clinical material, it may be useful to recall the salient elements of Capgras syndrome. It has been found in schizophrenia and, infrequently, by itself or in affective psychoses. It has been described as a rare, colorful syndrome in which the patient believes that a person, usually closely related to him, has been replaced by an exact double.... in all the cases I have studied, perception remained unimpaired, memory was intact, and there was no disorder of attention or concentration or any clouding of consciousness. In none of my patients was there any perceptible diminution of intellectual grasp.... So you see, Gary is a *very special* individual, and we should listen to him with the kind of respect that such a person deserves! -- Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! "In the 1970's the world will undergo famines - hundreds of millions of people are going to starve to death in spite of any crash programs embarked upon now ... in 1985, when it is calculated [under the most optimistic scenario] that the major die-back will be over, ..." Dr. Paul Ehrlich, "The Population Bomb," 1968 Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!uofs!falcon.cs.uofs.edu!bill From: bill@falcon.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: galactic ftp sites Message-ID: <10684@platypus.uofs.uofs.edu> Date: 16 Apr 92 15:56:41 GMT References: <1992Apr14.172948.959@desire.wright.edu> Sender: news@uofs.uofs.edu Reply-To: bill@platypus.uofs.edu Organization: University of Scranton, Scranton, PA Lines: 19 Nntp-Posting-Host: falcon.cs.uofs.edu In article <1992Apr14.172948.959@desire.wright.edu>, cse0935@desire.wright.edu writes: |> |> |> Does anyone have a list of the newest inter-planetary/inter-glalatic |> ftp sites? |> Well, I hear there is a pretty good one on Mars at the Inter-Planetary Free University, but the gateway seems tobe down again at the moment. For the humor impaired --> :-) bill -- Bill Gunshannon | If this statement wasn't here, bill@platypus.uofs.edu | This space would be left intentionally blank bill@tuatara.uofs.edu | #include Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!stanford.edu!apple!apple!portal!cup.portal.com!mmm From: mmm@cup.portal.com (Mark Robert Thorson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <57450@cup.portal.com> Date: 16 Apr 92 15:21:36 GMT References: Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 39 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5306 alt.conspiracy:14150 talk.religion.newage:10074 alt.paranormal:4792 Gary, you're absolutely right! I was one of those aliens, sent here from Arcturus to spy and harass you Earthlings. I would spend hours following people around, draining their subtle life forces using a portable orgone/prana collector. I liked this work, because it allowed me to spend my time walking around in the crowds of NEW YORK CITY, an exciting place to be if you don't mind the smell of urine. (It smells like perfume to us Arcturans.) But eventually our scientists developed a collector which can work OVER THE PHONE. If you've ever received one of those calls which just rings once in the middle of the night, that was us scooping up all the loose orgone in your house! At that point, all of the collectors in the New York ORG were withdrawn to a boiler room operation deep inside the hollow center of MT. LASSEN in California. Truly a boring place to be. After two hours of that (our time sense is faster than yours, 2 hours == about three human years) I got real bored and escaped. Since then I've been surviving using my aural sight to pick out winning scratch-off lottery tickets. Every day, I see my fellow Arcturans penetrating deeper and deeper into Earth society. Didn't anybody find it surprising that YASSIR ARAFAT survived a 300 mph plane crash without so much as a broken bone? He's an Arcturan. Did you notice how a certain left-handed vegetarian has located the base for his powerful multimillion dollar prayer network in Virginia Beach VA on top of the exact spot which was the site of EDGAR CAYCE's home? Yes, PAT ROBERTSON is another Arcturan. And is it any coincidence that the heir apparent of the Republican party is dominated by the forceful personality of his wife? Yes, MARILYN QUAYLE is another Arcturan, and you could have seen her on yesterday's (4/15) _The_700_Club_ being interviewed by Pat. And how do you explain the incredible energy emanating from the hands of BENNY HINN? Yes friends, the Arcturans are everywhere! Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!wupost!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFO meeting in Berlin Message-ID: Date: 16 Apr 92 17:02:46 GMT References: <126017.29E95880@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> <340@beyonet.UUCP> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 25 In article <340@beyonet.UUCP> beyo@beyonet.UUCP (Steve Urich) writes: > >=> >=>Meiner Erinnerung nach, war Armstrong Astronaut in der fruehern Tagen des US Space Program. Ich habe nichts von seiner Roswell-Aktivitaeten gehoert. Sind Sie sicher, dass diesen Mann gutglaeubig ist? Entw. echt Astronaut od. echt Roswellzeuge? Nein, nein! (That's all the German I know.) > There was a Neal Armstrong and I think a Virgil Armstrong that were > Astronauts. I vaguely remember Virgil (Astronaut) Armstrong, didn't > he die in a fire accident on the ground while they were waiting for > lift off? > Neal ARMSTRONG was an astronaut, as was the late VIRGIL Grissom, who died in the launchpad fire of Apollo 1. -- Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! "In the 1970's the world will undergo famines - hundreds of millions of people are going to starve to death in spite of any crash programs embarked upon now ... in 1985, when it is calculated [under the most optimistic scenario] that the major die-back will be over, ..." Dr. Paul Ehrlich, "The Population Bomb," 1968 Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!overload.lbl.gov!lll-winken!bu.edu!dartvax!mars.caps.maine.edu!maine.maine.edu!io10081 From: IO10081@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (The Xanadian) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space Subject: Re: THE FEDERATIONERS HAVEN'T DIED! Message-ID: <92107.121135IO10081@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> Date: 16 Apr 92 16:11:35 GMT References: <1992Apr15.133734.1@acad2.alaska.edu> Organization: University of Maine System Lines: 1 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5308 sci.space:29093 I'm finding it hard to reply by mail... do you have an alternate address? Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!decwrl!access.usask.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!bison!draco!orion!stimpsn From: stimpsn@bbs.orion.bison.mb.ca (Gary Stimpson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: ELECTRONIC IMPLANTS MADE BY HUMANS Message-ID: Date: 16 Apr 92 15:35:28 GMT References: <92106.134022IO10081@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> Sender: bbs@orion.bison.mb.ca (BBS Account) Organization: The Orion Unix System [A/UX 2.0.1], Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Lines: 31 The Xanadian writes: > > > Now something has just occurred to me... and it may belong in talk.religion. > misc, but here goes: > > I read in a book about the Antichrist a looong time ago was 'The Late Great Planet Earth'> about how the Antichrist would have each > human being tagged with this '666' number. > > Could it *be*, that this microelectronic tracking device is the predecessor > to the 'number'? The way 'Samurai_Writer' put it, it would seem, to me, > that it, in fact, *is*. I've read 'The Late Great Planet Earth Too'. Not a bad book, although the author thinks we (Christians) will be raptured BEFORE the tribulation. I don't believe that, I think we will go through it. Anyways, the mark of the beast will be either on the wrist or the forehead. You can understand that this would be the most convienent way for say a scanner. I think the mark will be put on by some type of laser. It will be visible ONLY by a scanner type device. What I'm interested in now, is if these UFOs have anything to do with the end-time events. Interesting.. Gary -- stimpsn@bbs.orion.bison.mb.ca (Gary Stimpson) The Orion Unix System [A/UX 2.0.1], Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!bronze!indyvax.iupui.edu!harvey From: harvey@indyvax.iupui.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFO meeting in Berlin Message-ID: <1992Apr16.174910.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> Date: 16 Apr 92 22:49:10 GMT References: <126017.29E95880@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> <340@beyonet.UUCP> Sender: news@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Indiana University Lines: 41 Nntp-Posting-Host: indyvax.iupui.edu In article <340@beyonet.UUCP>, beyo@beyonet.UUCP (Steve Urich) writes: > > Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews) writes: > [...] > => > Virgil Armstrong, USA, Sponsor, as secret service > => > officer he works > => > on the recovery of the first > => > UFO, found 1948 in > => > the USA. > => > =>Meiner Erinnerung nach, war Armstrong Astronaut in der fruehern Tagen des US Space Program. Ich habe nichts von seiner Roswell-Aktivitaeten gehoert. Sind Sie sicher, dass diesen Mann gutglaeubig ist? Entw. echt Astronaut od. echt Roswellzeuge? > > Woher haste dass gelesen dass der Virgil ein weltraumfahrer war? > Ich glaube nicht dass Virgil Armstrong erst ein `Secret Service' agent > wahr und dann blotzlich seinem beruf verandert. :-) > > > =>[To our American listeners -- I'm wondering if *anyone* has heard of Virgil Armstrong's involvement in the Roswell case? I've never heard of this guy. Could it be a *different* Virgil Armstrong? > > Different? Sounds like too much magic "UH-HUH" ingredient to me :-). > If he was in the Secret Service its probably a phoney name. > There was a Neal Armstrong and I think a Virgil Armstrong that were > Astronauts. No, you're confusing Neal Armstrong, who did research on exchange rates for carbon, nitrogen, and phosphorus in the Nueces and San Antonio Bay marshes for the Texas Water Development Board, with Neil Armstrong, the ex-astronaut who was the first man to set foot on the moon. > I vaguely remember Virgil (Astronaut) Armstrong, didn't > he die in a fire accident on the ground while they were waiting for > lift off? The name is Virgil I. "Gus" Grissom. The fire accident occurred during systems testing of the pressurized capsule on the ground; no launch was planned for that day. -- James Harvey harvey@iupui.edu (preferred) or harvey@indiana.edu Remember, there are only 2,816 shopping days left until January 1st, 2000! Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!mp.cs.niu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!jbh55289 From: jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh 'K' Hopkins) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space Subject: Re: THE FEDERATIONERS HAVEN'T DIED! Message-ID: <1992Apr16.225432.27199@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> Date: 16 Apr 92 22:54:32 GMT References: <1992Apr15.133734.1@acad2.alaska.edu> Sender: usenet@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (News) Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana Lines: 20 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5311 sci.space:29103 asljl@acad2.alaska.edu writes: >The project is trying to create a drive crystal that if >succesful will go beyond using rocket fuel. It's a long description. Your credibility would go way up (and you'd get much more interest) if you or someone else involved would post an explanation of how this works. > In trying to think on how to create money for it. they deicied to create >2 microelectronic gagdets, These, if a patent is granted, may create the money >we need to build the drive engine to get off this planet. Don't forget that just patenting something doesn't make money. You are going to need to invest in production, marketing and manufacturing so that you can actually sell these 'gadgets.' You will also need to be able to explain what they do. Josh Hopkins Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!acsu.buffalo.edu!ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu!v129j6ed From: v129j6ed@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (We make money the ole fashioned way. We beat people for it.) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <1992Apr17.000143.29767@acsu.buffalo.edu> Date: 17 Apr 92 01:01:00 GMT References: <57450@cup.portal.com> Sender: usenet@acsu.buffalo.edu Organization: University at Buffalo Lines: 23 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5312 alt.conspiracy:14174 talk.religion.newage:10075 alt.paranormal:4793 News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Nntp-Posting-Host: ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu In article <57450@cup.portal.com>, mmm@cup.portal.com (Mark Robert Thorson) writes... Gary, let me put this to you lightly. I was willing to give you a total shadow of a doubt reading your article. What I find to help me think your story questionable, is the fact that your real parents keep coming back, and then being replaced, back and forth. This is not highly improbable, but just plain, well, insane. ******************************************************************************* "Groovy!" - Ash "Evil Dead II : Dead By Dawn" (1987) ******************************************************************************* "Fans are interesting things. Rush fans just can't comprehend why the rest of the world doesn't like Rush. REM fans consider the rest of the world beneath their social level to notice. Kate Bush fans love the rest of the world, and the world loves them, but spend long nights plotting to knife one another." --Richard Darwin Richard Darwin #33, "Gradenza" ******************************************************************************* "It's Nothing. It's just a private joke between me and whoever is going to be my analyst." - Cary Grant "Mr. Blandings Builds His Dream House" (1948) ******************************************************************************* v129j6ed@ubvms The KaTeFan(tm) Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!news.acns.nwu.edu!uicvm.uic.edu!u55909 From: U55909@uicvm.uic.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: ELECTRONIC IMPLANTS MADE BY HUMANS Message-ID: <92107.124246U55909@uicvm.uic.edu> Date: 16 Apr 92 17:42:46 GMT References: <9204150013.AA14598@echidna.swdc.stratus.com> <92106.134022IO10081@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago Lines: 9 Very Interesting, indeed! When I was the mall a few months ago, I received a f lyer(so did every other car in the ENTIRE parking lot!) from a "religious" grou p (sorry, i'm not sure) that stated that plans were under way in the Netherland s (Banking Central of the world :-) ) to develop a sort of UPC code for humans! (a.k.a elctronic implant?) But there's more, It also said how every credit car d has a special code (i'm not sure but Visa is 777, Am. Express is 999,etc.) an d this new "UPC" code is 666!!!! So they were stating that the asnti-christ is not some stupid devil, but rather our fellow humans in power! This is all from memory, i'm sorry, but that was the theme pretty much! Whaddya think??? Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!watserv1!watdragon!watyew!jdnicoll From: jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <1992Apr17.005001.26299@watdragon.waterloo.edu> Date: 17 Apr 92 00:50:01 GMT References: <57450@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@watdragon.waterloo.edu (USENET News System) Organization: University of Waterloo Lines: 10 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5314 alt.conspiracy:14176 talk.religion.newage:10076 alt.paranormal:4794 In article <57450@cup.portal.com> mmm@cup.portal.com (Mark Robert Thorson) writes: >Gary, you're absolutely right! I was one of those aliens, sent here >from Arcturus to spy and harass you Earthlings. Ha! Arcturus is population II, and doesn't have those heavy elements so vital to terrestrial planet forming, technology, life and a sense of humor. Clearly an attempt at disinformation: just what kind of fools do you take us for? James Nicoll Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.claremont.edu!news From: rwyatt@niji.claremont.edu (Robert Wyatt) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: PRIVATELY FUNDED SPACE EXPLORATION Message-ID: <1992Apr17.040633.28850@muddcs.claremont.edu> Date: 17 Apr 92 04:06:33 GMT Sender: news@muddcs.claremont.edu (The News System) Organization: Harvey Mudd College Lines: 18 I read the post on privately funded space exploration and must admit to being somewhat of a skeptic. But, the idea of privately funded space exploration has interested me for quite a while and I would love to hear more of this group's ideas. I tried replying by EMAIL, but my mail was returned. Please email me further info. or post an alternate way for me to get in touch. Thanks ! Robert Wyatt Internet: rwyatt@claremont.edu or, if that doesn't work, rwyatt@ptnext.claremont.edu or, if that doesn't work, I don't know... Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!udel!gvls1!widener!beyonet!beyo From: beyo@beyonet.UUCP (Steve Urich) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFO meeting in Berlin Message-ID: <344@beyonet.UUCP> Date: 17 Apr 92 04:55:20 GMT References: <126017.29E95880@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> <340@beyonet.UUCP> Organization: Beyonet Network Lines: 20 sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes: [...] > Neal ARMSTRONG was an astronaut, as was the late VIRGIL Grissom, who > died in the launchpad fire of Apollo 1. >-- See I was close :-). Oh well I knew that Virgil Grissom sounded very familiar. Confusing the to 2 together backs a neeto phoney UFO investigator name... Don't you think :-). Steve -- ############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ############### ##|_|########## Bensalem, PA USA |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|########## ###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ############### #### #### snark!beyonet!beyo |when I hit the Screen" #### #### ## |_| ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project ## |_| ## ## ##-----------------------------------------------## ## #### #### Packet Radio: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.#SEPA.PA.USA.NA #### #### _###############_______________________________________________###############_ Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!news.cs.indiana.edu!umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!vjmurphy From: vjmurphy@carina.unm.edu (Phred T. Platypus) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFO meeting in Berlin Message-ID: Date: 17 Apr 92 04:38:19 GMT References: <126017.29E95880@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> <340@beyonet.UUCP> Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque Lines: 25 In article sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes: >In article <340@beyonet.UUCP> beyo@beyonet.UUCP (Steve Urich) writes: > Nein, nein! (That's all the German I know.) More than I know. > >> There was a Neal Armstrong and I think a Virgil Armstrong that were >> Astronauts. I vaguely remember Virgil (Astronaut) Armstrong, didn't >> he die in a fire accident on the ground while they were waiting for >> lift off? >> > Neal ARMSTRONG was an astronaut, as was the late VIRGIL Grissom, who > died in the launchpad fire of Apollo 1. >-- Actually, it was NEIL Armstrong. -- "You ask me if sex is one of the most _\_\ _/_/ Phred Platypus important things in life? Absolutely. _\_\ _/_/ Grammarian of Vengeance But the lack of it is even likelier _\_\_/_/ [ vjmurphy@carina.unm.edu ] to drive you nuts." -- Harlan Ellison _\_/ Vincent J. Murphy Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!bt479 From: bt479@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Gary Stollman) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <1992Apr17.061759.20032@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> Date: 17 Apr 92 06:17:59 GMT Sender: news@usenet.ins.cwru.edu Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA) Lines: 16 Nntp-Posting-Host: cwns1.ins.cwru.edu Come on!!! Give me a break!!! The shrinnk I was seeing in Tallahassee last year before I dropped him told me about this nonsense...Listen, you better get something and get it good; I am NOT insane, and this is ALL true, and by next week you may wish you had a one-way ticket to Mars!! If you don't believe me, check out where this is coming from, then check out my new signature...Nice, ain't it?? Gary -- Gary Stollman GEnie:G.STOLLMAN Internet:garys@bluemoon.rn.com Don't think I'm crazy cause I know twenty computer languages and have stolen more time on computers for free than you know about!! Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!bionet!raven.alaska.edu!acad2.alaska.edu!asljl From: asljl@acad2.alaska.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space Subject: Re: trouble answering Federation post. Message-ID: <1992Apr17.120443.1@acad2.alaska.edu> Date: 17 Apr 92 16:04:43 GMT Sender: news@raven.alaska.edu (USENET News System) Organization: University of Alaska Lines: 12 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5319 sci.space:29114 Nntp-Posting-Host: acad2.alaska.edu you should be able to answer via the address on the side but if you are having troulbe, though i can't think why at the moment, trying sending to me again, if no response , try vms, i don't know what you all call it. We use the Vms mail system up here. I can't remember what it stands for. well anyway, try putting psalp where asljl is, maybe it will work. At any rate if that doesn't work ask what it is you want to know and I'll answer from here. Signed Lady Rhavyn. Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Ufo Magazine. Message-ID: <126873.29EE5C88@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 17 Apr 92 03:41:00 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - Thanks for the address, Michael (Corbin). I just need one more question > > answered. How much does it cost to subscribe (American $$'s)? $21.00 Mike -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!bionet!raven.alaska.edu!acad2.alaska.edu!asljl From: asljl@acad2.alaska.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space Subject: Re: Federation Answers All Your Questions Message-ID: <1992Apr17.123039.1@acad2.alaska.edu> Date: 17 Apr 92 16:30:39 GMT Sender: news@raven.alaska.edu (USENET News System) Organization: University of Alaska Lines: 1054 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5321 sci.space:29117 Nntp-Posting-Host: acad2.alaska.edu You wanted a longer explaintion. Here it is. May I suggest not saving this to anyones file. It eats memory! At any rate some of this sound presumtious and egotistical I admit. But remeber this was written by the group who wants to get off the planet and colonize else where. Some of it should be looked at from a humorous point of veiw, others parts taken more seriously. I wish you all luck in decifering this little jewel. I 'll probably get repremanded for this but since so many had questions I though this would be the best way to answer all of you. Signed Lady Rhavyn ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Message begins here. 1 Federation Data-Packet The Federation Computer-Communications Net. Pre-planning and Financing Structures Project Review: The Federation Computer and Communications Network will be an international computer database designed for and dedicated to the theoretical, development, and building of low-cost, new-technologies, next generation space vehicles. The final goal is to create a trans-light interstellar capable star-ship to explore and map the galaxy. To accomplish the Federation Com - Comm Net's activities, the Federation must first be assembled and placed within reach of the worlds population. This operation will include the funding to purchase a large, time-sharing capacity main-frame computer, appropriate telecommunications links, software packages for graphic's, time-management, mathematics, office management, etc.,. This phase of the Federation must be accomplished by a third party organization which is at present non-aligned with any other high-capital investment projects. The goals of this Third-Party will be to generate the needed investment capital for the Federation equipment, marketing, and personnel. Operations Proposal: To create, manage and develop the Federation Com - Comm Net a private sector business must be created, who's sole interests and concern is the formation of the Federation. This Corporation must be of necessity small, with a Board of Directors holding complete and non-electoral control of the full resources of the Corporate resources. It must be able to maximum it's potential and mobilize all it's creative resources at a moments notice to gain the highest possible return on it's investment. Road Runner Incorporated ( R.R.I. ) will function as the Federations start-up corporate sponsor. Effectively R.R.I. will be a Management/Holding company who's sole duty will be to amass the needed liquid capital for the purchase and organization of the Federations basic infra-structure. In order to begin gathering funds, R.R.I. will operate Extended Realities, a reading house for Literary projects now in development. By reading and critiquing stories and manuscripts. The company will get a portion of the stories sale value back upon acceptance by a major publishing concern. With the sales of stories and books, R.R.I. will then select and engage the services of a Literary Agent to submit the work to Entertainment Companies and individuals. Again, R.R.I. will receive a portion of the sales value. The Acme Corporation, for the conceptualization, design, patenting, and creation of electronic gadgets, for sales across the world. As in the Reading house a portion of the gross sales will be returned to the company. And any other business which may develop out of the activites mentioned. Corporate Structure: Road Runner Incorporated will have only three basic, permanent Officers. Chief Operating Executive; This position will include all business planning, structure development, and legal filing that the company will need handling while it is in development. Operations Executive; This position will be responsible for all supervisory activities of the company operations. Over-seeing the development and progress of projects authorized, inspection and constant approval of bookkeeping and office management, etc.,. Development Executive; This position will undertake the creation and development of the first generation of products R.R.I. submits for sales. All other personnel and departments will be temporary aid and support to these three positions, hired as necessary on a contractual basis. The governing management authority and control of all corporate assets will reside solely will the three Officers at all times. Technical Operations: The Secondary goal of Road Runner Incorporated will be the development and harnessing of all technologies required to bring the Federation Com - Comm Net into being. Broken down to it's simplest measure, this means that while R.R.I. is purchasing and constructing the hardware and software infra-structure of the Federation, it will be learning and culling the system until the personnel and technology are adequate to the task laid out for the project. Computer training and education will be necessary for a short period of time to acquaint the corporate members with the system and it's capabilities. During this time, technical and expert help in the fields of computers, software, communications, international law and marketing will be contracted to lay out the full project start up system. This will allow R.R.I. to develop the needed internal departments and communications pathways to handle bring the Federation into being when all the resources are in place. In effect, R.R.I. will place the corporate structure it has build up as the working body of the Federation, while it's corporate status in-turn leases the services of the Federation system, so that the Officers of R.R.I. can return the corporation to a purely profit making organization. Executive Operations: Besides promoting and aiding in the sales of literary work, Road Runner Incorporated will also have several other parallel operations in development. Before the purchase and start-up of the computer network, R.R.I. will be collecting and contacting groups and organizations will the same basic philosophy and attitude toward space travel. An extended period of postal and telecommunications exchange will be needed to gauge the relative strength and size of the economic market of the Federation. This program will not only be within the state of Alaska, but also the United States and beyond. Such groups as the Star Trek Fan clubs, Science Fiction Conventions, etc., will all be targeted as potential user-groups and contacts for the Federation activities. A second program the R.R.I. will be activating during this period is to contact groups who are already financing and building Alternative Space Transport Systems ( A.S.T.S. ). Interest and financial membership in the Federation Net would be worth a great deal to these groups, helping them solve technical and legal problems at minimum cost. Research into the number, location and address of these groups will be on going as R.R.I. consolidates it position and resources. As the information concerning each independent organization and group is gathered, it will be added to the Database of E.R.O.A.'s system. This will be the base group from which the first wave of membership is expected. In time, technical support groups such as the Aero-Space industry, Collegiate Science organizations, etc., will be targeted to join the Federation Com - Comm Net. By the time activation of the Federation Com - Comm Net system is announced, R.R.I. should have achieved an international list of contacts and organizations which will have already have set up pilot computer files, and user-groups. These data-loads will be down-loaded into the Federation system upon activation according to a pre-determined set of Department and research files. Activation of Road Runner Incorparated: Road Runner Incorporated will begin operations upon the first installment of payment from sales from any of it's literary materials. This money will be taken to a pre-chosen bank and placed in an account, type to be determined by the Executive Board, where it will be used for E.R.O.A.'s financial needs. This account will continue to be a private account until the dollar amount reaches ten thousand dollars ( $ 10,000.00 ) where upon incorporation papers will be taken out in the name of Extended Realties of Alaska. At this time the Officer will be named and all pertinent information will be placed in the official records. A Charter will be drawn up by the Executive Board and business strategies and responsibilities will be laid out. Once the Incorporation papers are legally validated by the State of Alaska and the United States Government, R.R.I. will begin searching for legal agents to execute the decisions of the Executive Board. A Literary Agent, Legal Counsel, Electronic, Computer, Software, Telecommunications business's to deal with the complexities and problems which will be encountered, will all have to be found, and agreed upon. After the literary business Department is assembled and functioning, the greater area's of computer networking, software management, and international contacts will have to be developed. The Federation Computer-Communications Net. A Prospectus of Concept, Planning, Operations and Goals. Concept Proposal: A large capacity, time-sharing computer-software complex, with data- base/graphics computer and software connected to 1-900 pay-per-call phone lines, with computer access tie-ins to other computer service companies. Combining a limited A.I. ( Artificial Intelligence ) higher-archal file data-base with Auto-Cad and graphic's programs ( A layered, nested processor driven data-plus-plus multi-operational/simultaneous designed system.), people can log on and help formulate designs and criteria for the next generation of space vehicles. Placing advertisements in science fiction magazines and aero-space electronic, science, and physical technical journals, people are asked to start developing their idea's on a new space ship. Planning Phase: Before any capital investment can be made, the outlines and aspects of the operation must be laid out. The organization will require a large capacity Main-Frame Computer or Mini-Computer Business Model. The machine chosen will have to have a minimum of 100 MB of RAM capacity, Storage Bays, compatibility with LAN,* WAN* and PBX* Services, and work-group graphic/text interfaces. A Main-Frame with Systemizing linkages and multiple modem switching capacity and up gradable multi-port sequential/parallel hard- drive hook-ups would seem to be the most cost-effective hardware package presently available. A C.D.-ROM high density data drive be able to handle major data-base information storage. To operate this hardware complex, the organization should consider AutoCAD*, Operating Systems Language Files, Information Project Management package ( Idea Fisher,* MaxThink,* Super Project Expert,* etc.) Microsoft,* Pagemaker,* Mathematical package ( Mathmatica,* Sigma Plot*, Statgraphics,* etc.) Accounting package ( Market Analyzer,* DAC Accounting,* Rapid Tax,* etc.). To manage and control the software selections and operations Memory Management software must also be purchased along with a Higher-Archal over all control program. Office equipment for day to day business and correspondences must include a Laser Printer, Text Scanner ( With software package.), and Photocopier with enlarge/reducer capacity. A high-capacity Color Plotter would need to be purchased at a later date. 1 - 900 pay-per-call multi input/output communications telephone lines with international microwave-satellite links needs to be bought and licensed. Selling of time/space on the Net to special Vendors to carry Federation products. Aside from the machinery needed, to start-up the Federation Com-Comm Net, defined parameter for the business operations of the project must be established. The Federation Computer-Communications Net will be open access for any person with a Computer and modem for a user fee per-call. This fee will depend on phone and operating expenses incurred in the start-up process. Expected cost range from $1.00 per minute, to $10.00 per minute. For those people who wish a greater participation in the over-all project. The Federation Com-Comm Net will offer two levels of membership. The first level of membership purchased for a $25.00-a-year fee will entitle the individual to a button/badge certifying membership, a Federation I.D. number, placement on the Federation Mailing List, and a New Year Newsletters dispatched to them via Electronic Mail or Postal Mail concerning the state of the Project. Second Level Membership for a price of $100.00-a-year will entitle the individual to all Level One items, plus reduced price for extended computer log-on time, Vendor exclusion option, Bulletin board rental option, Franchise rights to open up a Federation Micro-Net in their own community as an Outpost of the Federation. As part of the Federation Com-Comm Net the members will be expect to participate in global policy debates and the selection of Delegates for the First Grand Assembly of the Federation. These Delegations will be the outgrowth of Fan-clubs and Fanzines now in existence. The idea is to link the groups for a common purpose and under a single Federation Charter to be drawn up by the Members themselves via computers. By the end of the first year, the members of the Federation will elect representatives from their groups and convene a Federation Grand Assembly ( A Super-Trek Convention ), where the Charter will be drawn up and signed. The Official Computer File holding the Charter and all the legal, members will be placed in the Official Archives of the Federation. Each group will arrange themselves in what ever manner they choose and send one duly elected Representative to the Federation Grand Assembly Convention. The Representative may be accompanied by a Alternate/Co-Representative. But the Senior Representative will be the only one who votes in Conclave. All members may sit in on the Conclave via the Federation Com-Comm Net, advising their representatives of their ideas and choices. Delegates from the various Federation groups will work on by-laws and charters. Operations: To begin the Federation Computer-Communications Net an intensive, but simple advertising campaign must be set in motion two-to-three months prior to the actual on- line activities of the Net. Print advertisement in leading Technical Journals dealing with Aero-Space products, Computers, Electronics, Atomic Research etc., should be the first step in this phase of the Project. Concentrating on people alienated by the elitist attitude created by the Governments Space Program and the general disgust with the slow pace thus far. Simple, short, eye- catching two color displays can be created to reach the public, and potential members. Secondary actives should include personal contact with Science Fiction T.V., Movie, and Book club members, letting them know about the soon to be on-line system. Phone calls and letters should be exchanged to establish a mailing and personnel database for use in selecting test markets and hardware testing targets. Presentation at various Science Fiction Conventions will also have to be used to aid in this pre-activation schedule. The addresses and members of Trek, Dr. Who, etc.,. fan-clubs should be collected and promotional material including personal telephone briefing forwarded to them. The key to succeeding in this project is the proper saturation of the market place, making sure the population knows that this is now available and how to get in touch. The price list and options must also be made clear. Once the On-Line activation has been achieved and the concern shifts from set-up to membership activities, a one-to-three month period may be anticipated in which minor procedural problems can be worked out concerning data-links and Federation Policy. After the majority of the technical and business methods are straightened out, the emphasis of the Project will be to enlarge the international Federation membership. Using existing Fan Club and Fanzine structures presently in-place it is possible to increase the Federation membership with only a minor advertising budget increase. A must in this project is the firm understanding to all, that total and complete freedom of access exist. The Federation Net exist for the benefit of all humankind. Once people join the Federation, nation of origin, religion, language, political persuasion, etc, mean nothing. They are members of the Federation, and are believers in the concept of Humanities bright Future. When the project reaches capital investment return and break-even monetary levels, launching of the next branch of the Federation should occur. The creation of the Federation Science Academy to study and refine developments created on the Federation Com-Comm Net and act as a traveling Press corp for the Federation. The Federation Science Academy will in the first stages of development be nothing more than a traveling show to promote the Federation at Conventions, and Meetings. Dressed in Federation style outfits and make-up they will work the Convention circuit across the globe. In the latter phase of development, the Federation Science Academy will function as a conduit for the building of the Federations first original hardware. By demonstrating the short comings of the present computers and systems in use to develop the space vehicles, the Science Academy will promote the idea of member groups getting together and making one, two dollar piece of hardware from the blue prints on the Net. If a million people are hard core members. Statistically ten thousand of those are high-tech workers. By market survey count, there are at least forty million people in the U.S. alone who follow Science Fiction entertainment. Now push that number up to an international scale and consider that some of these people will work in electronic factories, aero-space factories, etc. With the blue-print available to all members on the Federation Com-Comm Net, people across the planet can manufacture parts either in their own home workshops, or after hours at work. By this method the mailing and delivery system for the Federation Science Academy's new computer will be worked out. Once demonstrated that the science works, the third phase of the project will be entered into. The members will be asked to concentrate on a constant boost, shuttle craft. Goals: After the completion of the Federation Science Academy, the Federation Com-Comm Net will concentrate on the development and creation of a constant boost space vehicle which can be used to move to and from orbit economically and without lengthy lay overs. This Shuttle Craft will be the work horse of the Federation in the coming decade. Conceived as the twenty first century equivalent to the covered wagon, it should be manufactured out of common, durable materials. Once designed and built, in the same manner as the Federation Science Academy computer, the first shuttle craft will be used to shift the base of the Federation Com-Comm Net off Earth and onto Luna. This move will give legitimate status to the Federation and guarantee that no Earth Government can shut-down or coerce the members. With no Nationalistic allegiances, the Federation can serve all of Humanity equally, claiming no favoritism. A U.N. special operations status can be granted once this move is completed. With the Lunar site colonized, the Federation will assemble all the technical data needed to manufacture the shuttle craft and publish this data for all nations and private industries to use in their space programs, in hopes of witnessing a migration of people up from Earth to colonize the Moon. Once firmly established in a Lunar Enclave, the Federation will set out to construct an orbiting dry-dock from which a Star-ship will be built. To fund this project, the Federation will offer space in their Enclave and orbiting station to Research Universities, Movie Production Companies etc.,. The creation and operation of the First Star Ship by humanity is the final goal of the Federation Com-Comm Net. A better world for all is the goal of the Federation members. CHAPTER I Purposes and Principles ARTICLE 1: STATEMENT OF RIGHTS: Intelligence is the realization of self, and the inherent dignity of Life. All Intelligent- Beings are regarded by this document to possess in full measure, each Right expressed; 1.} Freedom of Thought, Speech, Expression, Press and Transmission of data; 2.} Freedom of Religious Belief, Creed, Doctrine and Worship; 3.} Freedom of Movement from and among District, State, Nation, Planet, Star System; 4.} Freedom of Assembly 5.} Freedom to Bear, Possess, Own and Operate any and all firearms; 6.} Freedom to Petition the Federation and/or any member for Redress of Grievance; 7.} Freedom to Vote or Choose Representation in Civil, Criminal, Business, or Political activities; 8.} Freedom to Participate in the Legal/Judicial system. 9.} Freedom to refuse to answer any question without Prejudice or Guilt. 10.} Freedom to have all Legal Documents and Laws stated in a clearly understandable language; 11.} Freedom to chose individual Social, Economic, Political, Religious, and Health Self- Determination; 12.} Freedom to require the Federation's aid and support when any Right is infringed or deprived. No Government, organization, private or public group or individual may deny, infringe or abridge in any way these Rights. The Federation and all it's Members, weather Nation, or individual is pledged to support and honor these Rights. Article 2: The Purpose of the Federation are; 1.] The Federation is based on the Sovereign Equality of all its Members; 2.] To develop friendly relations among all, based on respect for the Principles of equal Rights and self-determination of Intelligent Life-Forms, and to other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace; 3. ] To achieve cooperation in solving common problems of Economic, Social, Cultural, or Humanitarian character; in promoting and encouraging respect for Intelligent Life-Form Rights; and for the Fundamental Freedoms for all without distinction as to Culture, Sex, Life- Form, or Religious Belief; and 4.] To be a center for coalescence of all actions of all Social Systems in the attainment of these common ends. Article 3: Obligations to the Federation; 1.] No Member shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of any citizens of the Federation; nor shall any Member deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. 2.] The United Federation shall place no restriction on the eligibility of male and female Life-Forms of any Member Social System to participate in any capacity under conditions of Equality in its Principle and subsidiary agencies. 3.] The citizens of each Member shall be entitled to all privileges and immunities of citizens in the Federation. 4.] In order to ensure to all of them the Rights and Benefits resulting from Membership, all Members fulfill in good faith the obligations assumed by them in accordance with these Articles of Federation; 5.] All Members shall settle their disputes by peaceful means in such manner that Peace, Security, and Justice, are not endangered; 6.] In all relations, all Members shall refrain from the threat or use, of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any Social System, or in any manner inconsistent with the Purpose of the Federation; 7.] All Members shall give the Federation every assistance in any action taken in accordance with these Articles of Federation, and shall refrain from assisting any Social System against which the Federation is taking preventative or enforcement action; Article 4: Sovereign Rights of the Members; 1.] Nothing within these Article of Federation shall authorize the Federation to intervene in matters which are essentially the domestic jurisdiction of any Social System, or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under these Articles of Federation; But this Principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter VII. 2.] A person charged by any Member with treason, felony, or other crime, who shall flee from justice, and be found in another Member, shall on demand of the executive authority of the Member from which he fled, be delivered up, to be removed to the Member having jurisdiction of the crime. 3.] No person held to service or labor in one Member, under the laws thereof, escaping into another, shall in consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service or labor, but shall be delivered up on claim of the party to whom such service or labor may be due. 4.] Nothing in these Articles of Federation shall invalidate or preclude action in relation to any Social System which has been an adversary of any signatory to these Articles of Federation, taken or authorized as a result of that war by the governments having responsibility for such action; CHAPTER IV The Federation Assembly ARTICLE 9: Composition; The Federation Assembly Shall consist of all the Social System Members of the Federation. Each Member shall be entitled to have not more than five ( 5 ) Representatives in this body; ARTICLE 10: Functions and Powers; The Federation Assembly may discuss any question on any matters within the scope of these Articles of Federation or relating to the powers and functions of any Agencies provided for in these Articles of Federation and, except as provided in Article 12, may make recommendations to the Members and the Federation Council or both on any such question or matters; ARTICLE 11 1.] The Federation Assembly shall have power: To lay and collect duties, imports and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of The Federation; but all duties, imports and excises shall be uniformed throughout The Federation; 2.] To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the Members; 3.] To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws; 4.] To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries, and aid in the marketing for a nominal 2% fee from Royalty payments within the first seven years; 5.] To declare war, grant letters of marquee and reprisal, and make rules concerning capture; 6.] To make rules for the regulation of the Armed and Fleet force; 7.] To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the Federation, suppress insurrections and repel invasions; 8.] To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of The Federation, reserving to the Members respectively, the appointment of Officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by The Federation Assembly; 9.] To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by these Articles of Federation in the Government of The Federation, or in any department or officer thereof; 10.] The migration or importation of persons shall not be prohibited by The Federation Assembly; 11.] No capitation [ or other direct ] tax shall be laid. 12.] No preference shall be given by any regulation of commerce or revenue to the ports of one Member over those of another: nor shall vessels bound to, or from. one member, be obliged to enter, clear or pay duties in another; 13.] No money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in consequence of appropriations made by law; and a regular statement and account of the receipts and expenditures of all public money shall be published from time to time; 14.] No title of nobility shall be granted by The Federation: And no person holding any office of profit or trust under them, shall, without the consent of The Federation Assembly, accept of any present, emolument, office, or title, of any kind whatever, from any king, prince or foreign State; 15.] The Federation Assembly may call situations which are likely to endanger the Peace and Security to the attention of the Federation Council; 16.] The Federation shall erect no monument, or pay for the construction of a monument, dedicated to any individual, or event concerning actions, behaviors, beliefs or lack thereof to any person belonging to the Federation, Member, or Foreign Nation; 17.] The Federation Assembly, Council, or any agency connected to the Federation may not pass any law or create a security, police or enforcement organization better armed then the free citizenry, nor larger then ten percent ( 10% ) the total population of the Federation as a whole. No security, police or enforcement organization in any community, ship, or outpost may be larger then ten percent ( 10% ) of the total number of citizens. The security, police or enforcement organization may upon criteria approved of by the Federation Assembly deputize armed citizens to aid in the subduing and apprehension of suspect criminals. 18.] The Federation Assembly, Council, or any agency connected to the Federation may not pass any law requiring the wearing of uniforms, and/or specific attire. Members/citizens may wear any clothing they deem appropriate. This includes Armed Forces, Law Enforcement, Security, Court, etc.,. ARTICLE 12 1.] Where the Federation Council is executing the functions assigned to it under these Articles of Federation with respect to any dispute or situation, The Federation Assembly shall make no recommendation with regard to that dispute or situation unless so requested by the Federation Council. 2.] The Administration-Section, shall notify the Federation Assembly at each session of any matters relating to the maintenance of Peace and Security which are under discussion in the Federation Council, and shall notify the Federation Assembly or the Members if the Federation Assembly is not in session, immediately when the Federation Council completes its deliberations on any such matters. 3.] The Federation Assembly shall meet in two ( 2 ) sixty ( 60 ) day sessions each year to debate recent developments, propose Laws, and carry out those duties as set out in these Articles of Federation. The First Session of the Assembly shall begin on the first ( 1 ) day of the first ( 1 ) month of the new year. The second session will start following six ( 6 ) months after the close of the first ( 1 ) session. The last thirty ( 30 ) days of the second session shall be devoted to retiring of outdated laws presented to the Assembly by Members, Citizens or the Administration-Section. ARTICLE 17: Budget; 1.] The Federation Assembly shall consider and approve the budget of the Federation; 2.] Part of the expense of the Federation shall be borne by the Members as apportioned by the Federation Assembly; 3.] Part of the expenses of the Federation shall come from leasing natural and scientific resources controlled as Federation Assets. These asset may include real property, ( floor space within Federation Enclaves ), transport facilities ( space flight; passenger service, freight, research etc.,.) service leasing ( telescope maintenance, computer-time, analysis,etc.,. ). 4.] Part of the expenses of the Federation shall come from duly authorized duty, tariffs, inspection fees, and management fees charged to non-Federation citizens, cargo etc., utilizing Federation stations and properties. 5.] The Federation Assembly shall consider and approve any financial and budgetary arrangements with Specialized Agencies referred to in Article 57 and shall examine the Administrative budgets of such Specialized Agencies with a view to making recommendations to the Agencies concerned; 6.] Three to five percent ( 3% - 5% ) of the annual budget is to be placed in liquid assets, ( Bank Trust, Credit Notes, etc.,. ) every accounting period as an Emergency Operations Fund to be used to fiance extraordinary Federation needs: i.e., war debt, disaster, relief effort, rescue operations, etc.,. It is outside of the Assembly appropriations jurisdiction, and can only be activated by a unanimous vote of the Federation Council. 7.] The Federation Assembly, Federation Council and Administration-Section may not pass a Deficit budget. All Budgets must balance or be on the plus side, or they may not be enacted. Those Members that vote for the Deficit, have to assume financial responsibility for the short- fall. Their groups have to split the bill evenly among themselves and produce the credits, within ten days of the budget proposal. If they decline with in three days, then they are eliminated from the next budget vote. If they produce the Credits, then they can vote for the budget. If they do come up with the money, the budget won't be in deficit. 8.] The validity of the public debt of the Articles of Federation, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrections or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the Federation nor any Member shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the Articles of Federation, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; All such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void. 9.] All budgets of, and expenses of the United Federation shall be made and paid in the common Interplanetary Credit. The Common Interplanetary Credit shall be the official medium of exchange within the Federation Treaty Exploration Territory; ARTICLE 20: Procedure; The Federation Assembly shall meet in regular periodic sessions and in such special sessions as occasions may require. Special Sessions shall be convoked by the Administration- Section at the request of the Federation Council or of a Majority of the Members of the Federation; ARTICLE 21 1.] The Federation Assembly shall adopt rules of procedures, as its first official Act. The Procedural handbook is to be limited to ten pages and five thousand ( 5000 ) words. This handbook will then be used by every Federation Agency, Meeting and Council. 2.] The Federation Assembly shall elect a Governor for each Session; The Assembly Governor shall open each debate, and moderate the Assembly session. Limiting speaking times and making sure the business of the Assembly is handled in a timely fashion in accordance with the agreed procedures. 3.] The Federation Assembly Governor will serve as First Chancellor to the Federation Council. This duty is served even while the Assembly is out of session. CHAPTER IX The Interplanetary Court of Review and Justice ARTICLE 53: Statement of Legal Rights; 1.} All Search, Seizures and Arrest must be approved by a Writ from a duly appointed Federation Tribunal. This Writ shall contain, Intent, and detailed Description of Items or Persons sought; 2.} All cases by common consent, will be Tried by, the Low Court, Common Court or Final Tribunal; 3.} No Person may be forced to testify against themselves; 4.} No Person may be Tried for the same offense twice; 5.} No Bail may be set exceeding fifty percent ( 50 %) of the persons worth; 6.} No Private property may be seized without Fair-Market Compensation; 7.} The Accused has the Right to Face their accuser; 8.} The accused has the Right to call witnesses who must appear under penalty of Fine; 9.} The Accused has the Right to aid of Counsel for Defense; 10.} The Accuser has the Right to aid of Counsel for Prosecution; 11.} Persons have the Right to any-and-all data gathered by Public or Private Concerns about them; 12.} No Right may supersede another; No Persons Rights may supersede another Persons Rights; 13.} No ruling or sentence may Abridge or Restrict the Rights specified; Article 54: The Courts of Review and Justice; 1.] The Low Court of Review and Justice is to be comprised of a public access Data- Terminals linked to the Federation Science Academy legal Data-Base. This repository of all Federation Law is to be used to settle disputes and minor, Legal questions and punishments. 2.] The Common Court of Review and Justice is to be comprised of fifteen randomly selected people chosen from the Voter Rolls in the central computer memory banks of the Federation Science Academy. Three ( 3 ) of these individuals shall be selected as Tribunal Judges. The remaining twelve ( 12 ) shall act as Jurors for that days Court cases. Either a computer link, or hard-copy of the legal text will be on hand to aid the Court personnel. This Court hears Criminal and Civil cases, deciding on punishment and recompense for those concerned; 3.] The Final Court of Review and Justice shall be comprised of three ( 3 ) Senior Cadets of the graduating class of the Federation Science Academy. This Court will only review cases concerning the legality of laws now on the books, or issuing opinions of Laws about to be enacted. The only enforcement power the Final Court has, is that of voiding a current law. When this occurs, the Sponsors of the Law have ten ( 10 ) days to re-word the law to repair it. If no action is taken, then the Law is taken off the books.; 4.] Any group of citizens may convene a Common Court at any time they deem fit; Article 55 1.] All Members of the Federation as ' Ipso Facto ' parties to the Statute of the Interplanetary Court of Review and Justice; 2.] Each Member of the Federation undertakes to comply with the decisions of the Inter- planetary Court of Review and Justice in any case to which it is a party; 3.] A Social System which is not a Member of the Federation may become a party to the Statue of the Interplanetary Court of Review and Justice on conditions to be determined in each case by The Federation Assembly upon the recommendation of the Federation Council; 4.] Nothing in these Articles of Federation shall prevent Members of the Federation from entrusting the solutions of their differences to other Tribunals by virtue of Agreements already in existence or which may be concluded in the future; ARTICLE 56 The Federation Assembly of the Federation Council may request the Interplanetary Court of Review and Justice to give an advisory opinion on any legal question. Other bodies of the Federation and the Specialized Agencies, which may at any time be so authorized by the Federation Assembly, may also request Advisory Opinions of the Court on Legal questions arising within the scope of their activities. A FEDERATION RESEARCH PROPOSAL: By the synthesis of several fields of scientific and engineering specialty, the production of a new form of space drive may be possible. This new drive will represent a literal quantum leap in space propulsion technology, entailing as if does the reduction of space drive components to a single 51 centimeter crystal. Sub-light Ion Engine: This generator uses a block of semi-conductor material as light-amplifying material, also called an Injection Laser. A common material used is Gallium Arsenide. The Semi-Conductor material consist of two layers that differ electrically. Electron current passes thru the semi- conductor generates laser light along the junction between the two layers. The device, a quantum well diode laser, is made of a layered alloy of gallium-aluminum- arsenide. The middle layer, which is the active layer, is made of nearly pure gallium arsenide, and is only six-millionth of a millimeter thick. The two layers on either side of it are 10 times as thick and contain 30 times the atoms of aluminum for every 70 atoms of gallium. These layers are in turn sandwiched between two still thicker outer layers, containing 25 atoms of aluminum for every 75 atoms of gallium. The entire device is about 0.25 millimeters ( 0.01 inch ) square and one thousandth of a millimeter thick. When a voltage is applied and current flows, this radiative recombination has to be confined along the junction plane and must be reflected by a parallel, partially reflective surface so as to form a cavity. These parallel mirrors are readily obtained by cleaving along the natural cleavage planes of the III - V compound semi-conductors. The injection electrons and the light must be confined to the same region so that they can interact to enhance the stimulated emission. To provide the carrier and light confinement to the region of the p-n junction and obtain continuous operation at room temperature, it is necessary to use a heterojuntion - i.e., the junction in a single crystal between two dissimilar semi-conductors. The most significant difference is the energy gap and the refractive index. A double hetero-structure made with aluminum gallium arsenide ( Al-Ga-As ) and pure gallium arsenide and indium phosphate gallium indium are now being used. Al-Ga-As is used to jacket, or clad the pure Ga-As core which has a smaller energy gap than the two cladding layers. Typical values for X in the formula Al = x : Ga = -x : As, is x = 0.3. This gallium Arsenide region with a smaller energy gap is where the light with a smaller energy gap is generated due to radiative recombination of the injected carriers; it is called the active region. Other pairs of semi-conductors may be used, but all require a smaller-energy-gap active region with larger-energy-gap cladding layers. Also to prevent non-radiative recombination at the heterojunction interphases, the active layer and the cladding layers must have the same lattice constant. Electrical current travels through the layers in the form of moving negatively charged electrons and positively charged holes - These are empty spaces around atoms in materials crystal structure where electrons normally are situated. Under the influence of an electric field, an electron can jump from one hole to another. The hole the electron left behind can in turn be filled by a neighboring electron, which leaves another hole. As this process repeats itself, a hole in effect " travels " through the crystal. The middle layer acts as a pit, called a quantum well, which the electrons either overshoot or fall into. When an electron falls into a hole, the electron gives up energy in the form of a photon - a bundle, or quantum or light. A photon vibrates with a frequency equal to its energy divided by a number called Planck's constant. According to the laws of quantum mechanics that govern the emission of photons, electrons in an object can emit photons that have only certain special amounts of energy. Furthermore the number of possible amounts of energy, and the amounts themselves, given up by electrons as they fall into an object depend upon the size of the object. The smaller the size the object, the smaller the number of possible energies. Because the laser's middle layer is extremely small, when an electrical current flows across the laser, the middle layer emits photons, each of which has the same energy and frequency, corresponding to light of a deep red color. The basic principle of the laser is that photons of this frequency encourage electrons in the gallium arsenide to fall into the holes, emitting still more photons of the same frequency. As a result, it is possible for a weak current to cause the middle layer to emit tremendous numbers of photons with a single frequency. When the current rises above about 0.3 ampere, the device begins to emit laser light. The light output increases with further increases in the current. Only 1.5 amperes will produce 1/2 watt of light. The fundamental idea of this C.I.E. generator is that of the injection laser. However, that is merely the first stage. In the second stage, the use of superconductivity material and quasicrystals enhance and increase the injection lasers efficiency to provide adequate energy-to-thrust ratio for forward motion. The semiconducting material is martyred in a superconductivity lattice at an atomic level. Replacing the Oxygen-Copper pairings with Al- Ga-As. A superconductor conducts or carries electric current ( a flow of electrons ) without resistance. In may 1987, some evidence of superconductivity in a complex substance apparently occurred in microscopic " sandwiches " made up of insulated material located between layers of a superconductor. This is the same formation as that of a semiconductor. The new superconductors are ceramics - material that are neither metals nor plastics. The super conductors are brittle and are difficult to make into films or wires suitable for technical applications because its strength is proportional to the size of the crystilline grains in the superconductor. When researchers tried to increase grain size, their brittle materials cracked. Then silver, which absorbs strain but doesn't interfere with superconductivity was included in the formula of yttrium, barium, copper, and oxygen. Including the silver produced large grain superconductors, allowing a 4.5 pound tank of water, holding a living goldfish, to be levitated atop a ring magnet. The copper and oxygen atoms in these materials are staked in flat layers ( known as planes in geometry ). In each " building block " of the crystal lattice, copper an oxygen form one or more layers, while the other elements make up the remainder of the block. The blocks are stacked one upon another like a deck of cards to fill out the crystal. The critical temperature seems to depend upon the number of copper-and-oxygen layers per block - the more of these layers , the higher the critical temperature. The material with a critical temperature of -148 degrees C has three consecutive layers made of copper and oxygen and atoms in each block. In 1980, they imposed a strong magnetic field perpendicular to a very thin conducting layer in an electronic device known as a semiconductor-insulator junction. This caused a current to flow through the layer. Surprisingly, they found that the strength of the resulting electrical field was no longer simply proportional to the magnetic field and current, but increased by quanta, or steps, as the magnetic field increased. Successive steps did not depend on the nature of the specific conducting material. Rather, the steps were always at an exact or whole-number multiple of the current times the square of the charge of electrons divided by Planck's constant. The presence of moving magnetic fields can be shown by the Meissner effect, the rejection of a magnetic field by a superconductor that's cooled below critical temperature. Magnetic Field; a Region in the neighborhood of a magnet, electric current or changing electric field in which magnetic forces are observable. Magnetic fields force moving electrical charged particles in a circular or helical path. The magnetic force on a moving charge is exerted in a direction at a right angle to the plane formed by the direction of its velocity and the direction of the surrounding magnetic field. The Meissner effect occurs because the magnetic field of the permanent magnet causes superconductivity currents to flow on the surface of the pellet. These currents produce a magnetic field in the direction opposite of that of the permanent magnet's field. The portion of the superconductor's field inside the superconductor has exactly the same strength as the portion of the magnet's field extending inside the superconductor. So the magnet's internal field is canceled out. But the magnet's external field exerts a repelling force on the superconducting current carriers ( electrons or holes ) flowing on the surface of the pellet, causing the pellet to remain suspended. When a magnetic material is cooled in an outside magnetic field of constant direction, the small regions quickly grow into large domains in which the atomic magnets are aligned with the outside field. Scientist have found that certain impurities in the crystal structure of magnetic materials make boundary motion more difficult. The field inside a type II material became concentrated in various positions that depend upon the crystal structure of the particular superconductor. Certain irregularities in the shape of the superconductors crystal structure and certain impurities ( atoms that normally are not present in the materials ) can " pin down " these field concentrations. In a metal of alloy type II superconductor, movement of these magnetic field concentrations - know as fluxcreep - creates some electrical resistance, but not enough to prevent these materials from being useful for a variety of superconductivity applications. As the temperature increases, atoms in the superconducting material vibrate more and more rapidly, increasing flux creep. The moving field concentrations interfere with electrons or holes forming the superconducting current, thereby raising resistance. That flux creep can be exceptionally strong in ceramic superconductors that are made up of the chemical elements yttrium, barium, copper, and oxygen. The amount of current that can pass through a high-temperature superconductor is limited by the behavior of a three-dimensional magnetic structure called a flux lattice. When a ceramic superconductor is placed in a magnetic field, the field forms intermeshing, string- like concentrations of magnetism called fluxiods. An electric current can move fluxiods about and thus transfer some of the current's energy to the superconductor. This causes the superconductor to lose its zero electrical resistance. The higher the temperature at which the superconductor operates, the looser the lattice becomes, and so the easier it becomes for current to move fluxiods about - increasing the material's resistance. To prevent lattices from loosening researchers took advantage of a characteristic of certain conventional superconductors. In those materials, fluxoids can be immobilized, or " pinned down, " by defects in the crystal of the material. The current density of the altered crystalline material was about 10 times that of the material without the defects ( Current density is the amount of current flowing through a given cross-sectional area of a material.). A technique for altering the crystal structure of a high temperature superconductor by introducing crystal defects. The researchers measured the density of a current flowing through a crystal made up of yttrium, barium, copper, and oxygen. Then they bombarded the crystal with neutrons, creating defects every much like cracks in a brick wall. When they again passed a current through the crystal, the fluxiods stuck to the defects and did not interfere with the currents. As a result, the current density increased sharply to an amount that would make these materials useful for magnets. Another way of dealing with this problem would be the use of quasicrystals. A quasicrystal is a material which solidified into a crystal like object with a unit cell that could not possibly repeat itself in a periodic fashion. Researchers wondered how the object which came to be known as a quasi-crystal, could exist. The explanation came from an unexpected source. In the mid-1970's, theoretical physicist Roger Penrose developed a geometric structure comparable to sets of tiles of two different shapes that cover a floor in only non-periodic arrangements - that is, without regular distances between identical tiles pointed in the same direction. Penrose's discovery in plane geometry could be applied to solid geometry. Unit cells in the shape of an iconahedron ( a solid with 20 triangular faces ) could combine non-periodically to form a quasi-crystal. The ordering of the unit cells would be quasi- periodical - that is, distances between unit cells oriented in the same direction would repeat in a pattern, but not a periodic pattern. Instead the distances would change according to the Fibonacci sequence ( the continuous series of numbers beginning 1,1,2,3,5, in which the first two numbers is the sum of the preceding two numbers ). In October 1985, five researchers obtained quasi-crystals by bombarding a thin film of aluminum and manganese with a beam of xenon ions ( charged atoms ). The bombardment with ions rearranged atoms in the alloy to form a quasi-crystal. From the previous information is possible to formulate a synthesis of the various sciences described. A layered superconducting matrix of injection laser material Al-Ga-As, is laid down on normal semiconducting state. Then a quasicrystal superconductor, is overlaid as an insulating layer and hetrojunctioned to the plane of the Al-Ga-As, forming the quantum well where the electron-photon conversion takes place. By using the quasicrystal structure to pin down the magnetic fields, massive electric fields will be generated at right angles to the original electron current path. These electric fields will act to " push " the electrons in the alternative junctions. Inturn these electron currents will produce massive electric fields in the original current pathways. This double-push effect will increase electron-photon conversion. Throughout the more than 50 years of the particle-accelerator history, the strong electric fields that " push " the particles have always been provided by powerful radio waves, far stronger electric fields are present in the light waves produced by lasers, however. A light beam, like a radio beam consist of an electric field and a magnetic field. Strong electric fields are also found in plasmas - gases made up of atomic nuclei and independent electrons. Experiments beginning in 1983 focused intense flashes of laser light on an are of less than 1 square millimeter ( 0.0015 square inch ). Each flash lasted only ten-trillionth of a second, but for that instant the flash maintained electric fields thousands of times more powerful than those commonly used in particle accelerators. Fields this strong generate forces as powerful as those that hold atoms together. They can play havoc with any atoms that falls within their grip. Energy flows rapidly into the atoms, causing it to spew forth electrons. In a single laser flash, an atom may absorb as many as 100 photons and eject as many as ten electrons. Ordinarily, an atom absorbs one at a time and it is extremely difficult to remove several electrons from one atom in a single step. By this method, the quantum effect of electron-photon conversion is amplified, producing a sub-quantum field transfer effect of near 70-to-80% efficiency. By expontial expansion, the crystal electric-magnetic fields should reach a strong-force counter reaction by the time the electron-current flow has reached the end of the crystal. The end product of this action should be an quanta level release burst of energy along most known frequencies of the electromagnetic wave-band. ( Harnessed nuclear thrust.) First Earth Battalion: When Lieutenant Colonel Jim Channon agreed to investigate California's human-potential movement for an Army Think-Tank project in 1978, he did so with extrordinary zeal. Channon, an Army Futurist station in Los Angeles, visited more than 130 human-potential groups, including Est, Insight, and a host of others ranging in focus from the philosophical to the practical. Many seminars later, Channon concluded that holistic attempts to integrate mind, body, and spirit constitute the wave of the future. He also decided that the human-potential movement is something the Army should be concerned with. His solution was the First Earth Battalion - a mythical command unit that he designed as a model for the Army in the 1990s - whose purpose, according to Channon, would be to find alternatives to current models of warfare and to the Army's attitudes about individual soldiers. Such concerns as planetary peace, global interdependence, ethical warfare, and ecology predominate in battalion literature. Concepts are drawn heavily from Eastern philosophies and metaphysical disciplines. Battalion members would be required to have strong spiritual and philosophical commitments. What Channon proposes, among other ideas, is a kind of " strategic microforce. " Such New Age soldiers would be highly evolved in every sense: They would possess superior intelligence, rational decision-making ability under life-and-death pressure, an affinity for languages, and an understanding of sign language. They would be well aware of the power of visual symbols, music, and movements, especially choreography. They would be able to put themselves in relaxed-brain-wave states. Channon's soldiers would be highly versatile, boasting such technical skills as parachuting, scuba diving, and the ability to disarm nuclear devices. They would also be trained in aikido and other martial arts, meditation, yoga, and fasting. Proficiency in hypnotherapy, psychic communication, and " systematized intuition, " including dowsing and American Indian tracking techniques, would combine with knowledge of acupressure and herbal medicine. " A profound respect for other people's value systems " would be essential, Channon says, since soldiers would be of both sexes and of various religious or spiritual systems and races. Ultimately the battalion would be international as well. Their assignment: To handle the most " destabilizing " situations, including countering nuclear terrorism, providing protection within, or safe travel out of, strife- torn countries, and preceding United Nations peacekeeping forces. Channon envisions, for example, a team of 15 to 30 battalion members parachuting into a Mideast hot spot and standing between two armies to avert a potential clash. The battalion would inaugurate a space patrol that would search out concealed war devices, supervise the Suez Canal, and oversee emerging psychic research in the United States and the U.S.S.R. Battalion members not necessarily those in the strike force, would handle reforesting projects and promote respect for Mother Earth. FEDERATION SCIENCE ACADEMY TESTING FORM Name: Last Middle First | | Address: Street City | | State Nation Zip Code | | Planet Life-Form Phone | | Please Answer The Next Series Of Questions As Honestly As Possible: How many sides does a Cube have? If the Sun is over your left Shoulder, where's your shadow? | What would you do if a drunk stumbled into you and tried to start a fight? A pregnant woman needs a ride to the hospital and your car has a flat tire. What do you do? What happens if you feed a stray animal? What creates the little barren lines around houses? How many people make up a large group? Your favorite group activity? | Your opinion of Government? Big Business? Schools? | | Your favorite set of numbers 1,2,3,4,5,6: | 1,2,5,7,8,0: | 9,2,5,1,8,5: Which job sounds more like you? ( Physical/Mental energy required ) Librarian: | Fire Fighter: | Janitor: How long should it be between people seeing each other? 2 x per day: | 2 x per month: | Does not matter: Describe your concept of your personal Now? ( How you perceive Time and your schedule ) Do you read: Magazines: | Books | Encyclopedias | All Thank you for your honesty and forthrightness. Greetings: We of the Federation greet you. You've no doubt noted that the data provided to you are excerpts taken from longer, more detailed documents. The reason for this is mostly economic. The one hard-copy of the Federation Operations Manual we have, is presently running two hundred and fifty pages. This includes the full Constitution, the science database for the drive-crystal, basic uniform designs for public relations, computer icon designs for Department files, etc.,. The second reason for this small, data-packet is as simple. We're still getting on our feet. While we have a lot of data, ideas, and paper work. It's taking us time to organize this information into useable segments, cross-reference and build the files and such that we'll need to get everything operating smoothly. The holidays have also interfered with the byte-work ( as opposed to paperwork ). Now that things are getting back to normal, we expect to have this whole thing whipped into shape in a couple of weeks. We've also found a member who can work up a cost-evaluation-and-projection report for all the items listed in the Sponsor Program. Hopefully we can have a working operations cost-analysis by the beginning of February. If you have any information, ideas, and/or whatever, please send back either electronic mail, or regular mail, the address follows. Thanks for your interest, and hopefully, we can have an operating vehicle by 1995. Target date for getting off this planet is summer of 1995, or sooner. Lets get moving, folks. Please return filled out copy of test A.S.A.P. E.T. Go Home. P.O. Box 212314 Anchorage, Alaska 99512 Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!yale.edu!jvnc.net!phage!pjm From: pjm@cshl.org (Pat Monardo) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <1992Apr17.154634.25204@cshl.org> Date: 17 Apr 92 15:46:34 GMT References: <57450@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@cshl.org (NO MAIL) Organization: Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory Lines: 6 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5322 alt.conspiracy:14189 talk.religion.newage:10079 alt.paranormal:4796 Some CLUES for Gary: You may think you have been on various Networks and Bulleting Boards, but actually we have direct control of your terminal and we run Usenet and Internet simulations. Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!yale.edu!jvnc.net!darwin.sura.net!europa.asd.contel.com!uunet!math.fu-berlin.de!news.netmbx.de!zelator!leo From: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de (Stefan Hartmann) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Rockefeller Syndicate Message-ID: Date: 17 Apr 92 20:39:35 GMT References: <1992Apr17.125042.1@kscdl1.ksc.nasa.gov> Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System Lines: 55 In <1992Apr17.125042.1@kscdl1.ksc.nasa.gov> lockhart@kscdl1.ksc.nasa.gov writes: >Don: >Why are you posting such drivel here? Is that not what alt.conspiracy >is for? If you can show me *any* even *remote* connection to alt.alien. >visitors I will eat my words, but in the meantime, IMO, this is a waste >of bandwidth. >Susy >-- > +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ > | $ @disclaimer opinions are mine | > +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ > | Susy Lockhart | " I need this like I need a butt implant." | > | EG & G Florida | | > | Kennedy Space Center | Opus | > +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ > | email: lockhart@kscdl1.ksc.nasa.gov | > +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Right Susy, let's keep the alt.alien.visitors channel for reports about "real" UFO- sightings and discussion about the available pictures !! Post this junk please to other groups ! Also the articles of "the cascade from hell .." seems to originate from some puberty schoolboys ! BTW, has anybody already downloaded the alien.gif picture and the Ed Walters GIF-pictures from phoenix.oulu.fi (130.231.240.17) /pub/ufo_and_space_pics ??? What do You think all about these pics ?? I will soon upload some more pics, also the color version of the alien being crashed at Roswell, New Mexico. Does anybody know, if these photos are for real or are they only a good made doll ?? Please if You claim something about it add a valid proof which can be checked ! Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for Decentral Energy Research email to: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de -- ******************************************************************************* * Stefan Hartmann This is how to contact me: * * EMAIL: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de * * Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79 * ******************************************************************************* Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!bluemoon!garys From: garys@bluemoon.rn.com (Gary Stollman) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <6k5cJB1w164w@bluemoon.rn.com> Date: 17 Apr 92 06:44:40 GMT References: <1992Apr16.003806.4972@anasaz> Sender: bbs@bluemoon.rn.com (BBS Login) Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024]) Lines: 29 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5324 alt.conspiracy:14191 talk.religion.newage:10080 alt.paranormal:4797 john@anasaz (John Moore) writes: > Keywords: > > In article <1kq0iB1w164w@bluemoon.rn.com> garys@bluemoon.rn.com (Gary Stollma > ]> Prozac is for depression, not paranoia (or schizophrenia which was > ]> very evident in the quoted posting). > ] > ]***** > ]Don't make diagnosises unless you are a trained professional...I an't > ]crazy, and you ain't no judge of humanity... > > If you believe what you are posting, you are indeed crazy, but it would of > course be hard to convince you of that. > > -- > John Moore NJ7E, 7525 Clearwater Pkwy, Scottsdale, AZ 85253 (602-951-9326) > john@anasazi.com ncar!noao!asuvax!anasaz!john anasaz!john@asuvax.eas.asu.edu > - - If a field of study has the word "science" in it - it isn't a science - > - - Support ALL of the bill of rights, INCLUDING the 2nd amendment! - - ***** Not only do I believe it, I intend to PROVE it!! Gary This is from garys@bluemoon.rn.com who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!bluemoon!garys From: garys@bluemoon.rn.com (Gary Stollman) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: Date: 17 Apr 92 06:49:11 GMT References: Sender: bbs@bluemoon.rn.com (BBS Login) Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024]) Lines: 67 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5325 alt.conspiracy:14192 sci.skeptic:22768 alt.paranormal:4798 sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes: > I sent a copy of some of Gary Stollman's postings to a friend who is > knowledgeable about such things. He replies, > > "I really enjoyed the Stollman material. When Horowitz said, "Fight > Back!" I don't think he meant with toy guns. He is a prize catch. > The presence of Capgras' syndrome makes him a rara avis. Genital > mutilation is a familiar theme in the literature on psychosis... > > By way of explanation, he included the following: > > "The Capgras Syndrome and its Psychopathology" by B. Frank Vogel, > M.D. (Am J Psychiatry 131:8, August 1974): > > ABSTRACT: Five case reports indicate that the Capgras syndrome, a > condition in which the patient believes that a person closely > related to him is actually an impostor, is far less rare than has > been commonly accepted. The author discusses the psychodynamics, > suggests that the syndrome itself is a massive defense system > against disintegrative intrapsychic conflicts, and examines the > clear-cut ego defense mechanisms employed. > > TEXT: Since it was first described in 1923, the Capgras syndrome has > been accorded unusual respect and treatment because of its > supposed rarity. From time to time, single cases have been > reported as if each were a rara avis.... > > Before going into the clinical material, it may be useful to > recall the salient elements of Capgras syndrome. It has been > found in schizophrenia and, infrequently, by itself or in > affective psychoses. It has been described as a rare, colorful > syndrome in which the patient believes that a person, usually > closely related to him, has been replaced by an exact double.... > in all the cases I have studied, perception remained unimpaired, > memory was intact, and there was no disorder of attention or > concentration or any clouding of consciousness. In none of my > patients was there any perceptible diminution of intellectual > grasp.... > > So you see, Gary is a *very special* individual, and we should listen > to him with the kind of respect that such a person deserves! > > -- > > Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com > > Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized > > "In the 1970's the world will undergo famines - hundreds of millions > of people are going to starve to death in spite of any crash programs > embarked upon now ... in 1985, when it is calculated [under the most > optimistic scenario] that the major die-back will be over, ..." > > Dr. Paul Ehrlich, "The Population Bomb," 1968 ***** You will see in my message from Freenet that I am quite a character, way beyond that which you could scarely imagine...I will post on here soon my wanderings among the world of the old Arpanet, of which I used up around $1,000,000 in REAL money of the U.S. governments...Interesting, no?? Gary This is from garys@bluemoon.rn.com who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!bluemoon!garys From: garys@bluemoon.rn.com (Gary Stollman) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: Date: 17 Apr 92 06:53:58 GMT References: <57450@cup.portal.com> Sender: bbs@bluemoon.rn.com (BBS Login) Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024]) Lines: 14 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5326 alt.conspiracy:14193 talk.religion.newage:10081 alt.paranormal:4799 > And how do you explain the incredible energy emanating from the hands > of BENNY HINN? Yes friends, the Arcturans are everywhere! ***** Perhaps he has Vaseline on them?? My girlfriend Joan's REAL father invented it... Gary P.S. My best friend inherited $728 million...Interesting, no?? This is from garys@bluemoon.rn.com who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!chaph.usc.edu!royander From: royander@sal-sun125.usc.edu (Roy Anderson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.slack,alt.stupidity,alt.exploding.kibo Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again... Message-ID: Date: 17 Apr 92 19:46:32 GMT References: <1992Apr7.024534.159@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> <92107.112047ALY101@psuvm.psu.edu> Sender: royander@sal-sun125.usc.edu (Roy Anderson) Reply-To: royander@sal-sun125.usc.edu (Roy Anderson) Distribution: ca Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA Lines: 125 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5327 alt.slack:3048 alt.stupidity:4721 alt.exploding.kibo:228 NNTP-Posting-Host: sal-sun125.usc.edu In article <92107.112047ALY101@psuvm.psu.edu>, writes: |> In article , royander@sal-sun109.usc.edu (Roy |> Anderson) says: |> > |> >In article , arg@arghouse.UUCP (G.Argendeli-Sysop) |> >writes: |> >|> klein@kira.egr.msu.edu (Jeffrey Klein) writes: |> >|> |> >|> > In article smedley@milton.u.washington.edu |> >(Willia |> >|> > >bur@soil.gsfc.nasa.gov (Mike Bur) writes: |> >|> > > |> >|> > >>In article <-zlj3qq.raj@netcom.com> raj@netcom.com (Roger Lee) writes: |> >|> > >>>In <1992Apr4.004715.17931@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> |> >bur@ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov |> >|> > >>> |> >|> > >>>>In article kibo@world.std.com (James |> >'Kibo' |> >Pa |> >|> > >>>>>In article <1992Apr2.015814.14003@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> |> >bur@ultisol.gsfc |> >|> > >>>>>>In article <1992Apr1.020902.587@zip.eecs.umich.edu> |> >fields@zip.eecs.umi |> >|> > >>>>>>>In article <1992Mar31.211150.13627@cs.rose-hulman.edu> |> >waldbyjf@NeXTwo |> >|> > >>>>>>>>In article <1992Mar28.192924.17253@acsu.buffalo.edu> |> >|> > >>>>>>>>majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) writes: |> >|> > >>>>>>>>> sramming@athena.mit.edu (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes: |> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >In article <1992Mar27.033812.25302@acsu.buffalo.edu> |> >|> > >>>>>>>>majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) writes: |> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>klm@gozer.mv.com (Kevin L. McBride) writes: |> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: |> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> In article <1992Mar25.012450.7508@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> |> >|> > >>>>>>>>press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes: |> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >In article <1992Mar20.031338.3813@nntp.uoregon.edu>, |> >|> > >>>>>>>>rtaylor@cie.uoregon.edu (Russ Taylor) writes: |> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> In article |> >kibo@world.std.com |> >(J |> >|> > >>>>>>>>'Kibo' Parry) writes: |> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed] |> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS. |> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper. |> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH. I WISH YOU PEOPLE |> >WOUL |> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*. |> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, |> >but |> >on |> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> added your ten cents? A thousand-degree flame on you! |> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!) |> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth? |> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich |> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width. |> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it? |> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >because he made a paste of it |> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it. |> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor |> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >he never was a sailor |> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer. |> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE? PLEASE |> >EXERC |> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT. |> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>Okay. |> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >> Come on guys, I think he means it. Don't follow up to |> >this. |> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious. |> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >Go ahead and follow up. |> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >Or kill me. |> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess. |> >|> > >>>>>>>>Shhhh! |> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >sramming@athena.mit.edu |> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming 305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge |> >MA |> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >( the nonibo -ibo ) (617) 225-9887 [home] (617) 253-7942 |> >[of |> >|> > >>>>>>>>> No! Don't follow up to this! Whatever you do, _don't_ press |> >|> > >>>>>>>>> that "f" button! It's a sin! It's a sin! This is against the |> >god |> >|> > >>>>>>>>> of bandwidth and all that is wholly! See what you do! You e |> >wast |> >a |> >|> > >>>>>>>>> waste and waste until the unthinkable happens! Nay, until the |> >|> > >>>>>>>>> _unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the |> >|> > >>>>>>>>> world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up! |> >My |> >|> > >>>>>>>>> _GOD_! How can you even think it! How can you dream it and |> >still |> >|> > >>>>>>>>> remain sane?!?!? How can it be?!?!?!?! Gah!!!! |> >|> > >>>>>>>>> majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu | The meek shall inherit the , |> >earth |> >|> > >>>>>>>>> v061regm@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu | and the wise keep moving on... |> >|> > >>>>>>>>> Rev. M @P.O. Box 156 O |> >|------------------------------------ |> >|> > >>>>>>>>> Amherst, NY 14226 + |Ask me about the Secret Society! |> >Sh |> >|> > >>>>>>>>What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion? |> >I |> >|> > >>>>>>>>missed the earlier parts. |> >|> > >>>>>>There. No more wasted "Bandwidth" |> >|> > >>>>>Huh? |> >|> > >>>>Duh! |> >|> > >>>NOT! |> >|> > >>Got. |> >|> > >Gott. |> >|> > What? |> >|> Je Ne Comprends Pas.... Pas! |> >Paass the pepper, salty! |> Grass is healthy, mostly. Only when chewed slowly!! |> > |> > |> > |> > |> > |> > |> > |> >|> |> >|> --- |> >|> "By this time, my lungs were aching for air!" -MST3K |> >|> Greg Argendeli, System Administrator (arg@arghouse.uucp) |> >|> (bbs) +1 619 563 1084| (Page) +1 619 989 0912 | (Voice) +1 619 528 1209 |> > |> > Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!jbh55289 From: jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh 'K' Hopkins) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space Subject: Re: Federation Answers All Your Questions Message-ID: <1992Apr17.220147.17952@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> Date: 17 Apr 92 22:01:47 GMT References: <1992Apr17.123039.1@acad2.alaska.edu> Sender: usenet@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (News) Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana Lines: 13 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5328 sci.space:29124 Interesting ideas, but pardon me if I'm still skeptical :) Was it just me, or did the 'technical explanation' leave out any indication as to how to get thrust out of this contraption? I'm also worried about a dependance principles that haven't been demonstrated yet, avoiding the question of funding (who is going to write for you? How do you plan to make money from selling 'gadgets' without needing at least as much for startup costs) and a rather lopsided attention to details. Did you really make the computer icons and design the uniforms, but you've never bothered to try building one of these crystal things? Josh Hopkins Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!mips!apple!apple!portal!cup.portal.com!mmm From: mmm@cup.portal.com (Mark Robert Thorson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <57478@cup.portal.com> Date: 17 Apr 92 04:22:16 GMT References: <1992Apr12.230048.15124@anasaz> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 5 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5329 alt.conspiracy:14202 talk.religion.newage:10082 alt.paranormal:4800 > Prozac is for depression, not paranoia (or schizophrenia which was > very evident in the quoted posting). So do you recommend Clozapine, or should we go directly to ECT or the Freeman-Watts procedure? Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!max.u.washington.edu!games From: games@max.u.washington.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space Subject: Re: Federation Answers All Your Questions Message-ID: <1992Apr17.162819.1@max.u.washington.edu> Date: 17 Apr 92 23:28:19 GMT References: <1992Apr17.123039.1@acad2.alaska.edu> <1992Apr17.220147.17952@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> Sender: news@u.washington.edu (USENET News System) Lines: 27 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5330 sci.space:29129 In article <1992Apr17.220147.17952@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh 'K' Hopkins) writes: > Interesting ideas, but pardon me if I'm still skeptical :) > Was it just me, or did the 'technical explanation' leave out any indication as > to how to get thrust out of this contraption? I'm also worried about a > dependance principles that haven't been demonstrated yet, avoiding the > question of funding (who is going to write for you? How do you plan to make > money from selling 'gadgets' without needing at least as much for startup > costs) and a rather lopsided attention to details. Did you really make the > computer icons and design the uniforms, but you've never bothered to try > building one of these crystal things? > > > Josh Hopkins Skipping the issue of thrust for a moment... It seems to me that the emotional recruitment approach might work, since the rhetoric stated that members would come from the 'cons. If this is the case, the uniforms and logos are far more important to initial fundraising than working hardware. John Stevens-Schlick (Of course, >>I<< wouldn't give them money without seeing the blueprints, but IF I saw reasonable blueprints, and some initial working stuff, I might be enticed into being someone to build stuff for them at home. {However, what do YOU think the chances are of seeing initial proof of principal working hardware... NOT}) Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!mips!pacbell.com!att!rutgers!noao!asuvax!anasaz!qip!billy From: billy@anasaz (Bill Moore) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFO CONSPIRACY Message-ID: <1992Apr16.162447.6727@anasaz> Date: 16 Apr 92 16:24:47 GMT References: <1992Apr15.011330.12370@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> Organization: Anasazi, Inc. Phoenix, Az Lines: 18 In article <1992Apr15.011330.12370@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> hoza@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (HOZA MARK R) writes: ->I think that this information is accurate, but this is based only on my ->intuition and feelings, which have resulted from what I've read in other ->places. I think that what Milton William Cooper has allegedly said is ->accurate. I intend to investigate further, but this is my impression at ->this time. I welcome any leads to information on the subject of UFO's, or ->advice for my research. -> If you're serious, you would be wasting your time on that path. Cooper has been thoroughly discredited. Send e-mail if you want details. I suggest you look into MUFON as an organization that would support your interests if your objective is to look into this in a scientific, somewhat skeptical, manner. -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bill Moore billy%anasaz.UUCP@asuvax.eas.asu.edu (602) 395-1732 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: ELECTRONIC IMPLANTS MADE BY HUMANS Message-ID: <8d2jajr.sheaffer@netcom.com> Date: 17 Apr 92 23:09:00 GMT References: <9204150013.AA14598@echidna.swdc.stratus.com> <92106.134022IO10081@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> <92107.124246U55909@uicvm.uic.edu> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 28 In article <92107.124246U55909@uicvm.uic.edu> U55909@uicvm.uic.edu writes: >Very Interesting, indeed! When I was the mall a few months ago, I received a f >lyer(so did every other car in the ENTIRE parking lot!) from a "religious" grou >p (sorry, i'm not sure) that stated that plans were under way in the Netherland >s (Banking Central of the world :-) ) to develop a sort of UPC code for humans! >(a.k.a elctronic implant?) But there's more, It also said how every credit car >d has a special code (i'm not sure but Visa is 777, Am. Express is 999,etc.) an >d this new "UPC" code is 666!!!! Oh, it's even WORSE than that! Now that telephone deregulation is forcing all these competing "long distance carriers" on us, look what They have done: if I want to select MCI as my long distance carrier, I must dial 222, and if I want to select U.S. SPRINT, it's 333 !!!!!! This is a conspiracy SO VAST.......... -- Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! "In the 1970's the world will undergo famines - hundreds of millions of people are going to starve to death in spite of any crash programs embarked upon now ... in 1985, when it is calculated [under the most optimistic scenario] that the major die-back will be over, ..." Dr. Paul Ehrlich, "The Population Bomb," 1968 Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!rpi!sarah!newserve!bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu!vu0208 From: vu0208@bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu (!) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space Subject: Re: THE FEDERATIONERS HAVEN'T DIED! Message-ID: <1992Apr17.234803.6936@newserve.cc.binghamton.edu> Date: 17 Apr 92 23:48:03 GMT References: <1992Apr15.133734.1@acad2.alaska.edu> <1992Apr16.225432.27199@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> Sender: usenet@newserve.cc.binghamton.edu (Mr News) Organization: State University of New York at Binghamton Lines: 31 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5333 sci.space:29131 Nntp-Posting-Host: bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu In article <1992Apr16.225432.27199@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh 'K' Hopkins) writes: >asljl@acad2.alaska.edu writes: > > >>The project is trying to create a drive crystal that if >>succesful will go beyond using rocket fuel. It's a long description. > > Your credibility would go way up (and you'd get much more interest) >if you or someone else involved would post an explanation of how this works. > It's simple! There are many many ways that you don't need any poisonous rocket propellants to hurl you into space! But if we tell you like that, wouldn't you or nasa take away the patent! > Don't forget that just patenting something doesn't make money. You >are going to need to invest in production, marketing and manufacturing so that >you can actually sell these 'gadgets.' You will also need to be able to >explain what they do. > > > Josh Hopkins Obviously, when they will be ready for selling, it will be advertised! - astro Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!noiro.oac.uci.edu!news.service.uci.edu!chrisb From: chrisb@lynx.ps.uci.edu (Chris Barrus) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Majestic Twelve - The Video Game(?!) Message-ID: Date: 18 Apr 92 00:37:11 GMT Organization: Dept. of Physics, Univ. of California, Irvine Lines: 14 Nntp-Posting-Host: lynx.ps.uci.edu I thought that I should mention this... In San Diego, I saw and played a "Majestic Twelve" video game. Not surprisingly, it is a space invaders-type game complete with cattle mutilations. So, is this another part of our conditioning? :-) -Chris -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chris Barrus - P.O. Box 5115 - Irvine - CA - 92714 - chrisb@lynx.ps.uci.edu --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!mips!mips!decwrl!pa.dec.com!shodha.enet.dec.com!shodha.enet.mit.com!Stollman From: stollman@shodha.enet.mit.com (Gary Stollman) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <6592@shodha.enet.dec.com> Date: 17 Apr 92 14:43:00 GMT Sender: news@shodha.enet.dec.com Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology Lines: 17 In article <1992Apr17.061759.20032@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>, bt479@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Gary Stollman) writes... Come on!!! Give me a break!!! The shrinnk I was seeing in Tallahassee last year before I dropped him told me about this nonsense...Listen, you better get something and get it good; I am NOT insane, and this is ALL true, and by next week you may wish you had a one-way ticket to Mars!! If you don't believe me, check out where this is coming from, then check out my new signature...Nice, ain't it?? Gary -- Gary Stollman GEnie:G.STOLLMAN Internet:garys@bluemoon.rn.com Don't think I'm crazy cause I know twenty computer languages and have stolen more time on computers for free than you know about!! Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!mips!mips!decwrl!pa.dec.com!shodha.enet.dec.com!nut.case.lunatic.shithead!stollman From: stollman@nut.case.dick.head (Gary Stollman) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <6594@shodha.enet.dec.com> Date: 17 Apr 92 13:43:00 GMT Sender: news@shodha.enet.dec.com Organization: Tallahassee Mental Sanatorium Lines: 15 Come on!!! Give me a break!!! The shrinnk I was seeing in Tallahassee last year before I dropped him told me about this nonsense...Listen, you better get something and get it good; I am NOT insane, and this is ALL true, and by next week you may wish you had a one-way ticket to Mars!! If you don't believe me, check out where this is coming from, then check out my new signature...Nice, ain't it?? Gary -- Gary Stollman GEnie:G.STOLLMAN Internet:garys@bluemoon.rn.com Don't think I'm crazy cause I know twenty computer languages and have stolen more time on computers for free than you know about!! Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!mips!mips!decwrl!pa.dec.com!shodha.enet.dec.com!comet.enet.pit.com!stollman From: stollman@comet.enet.pit.com (Gary Stollman) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <6593@shodha.enet.dec.com> Date: 17 Apr 92 13:48:19 GMT Sender: news@shodha.enet.dec.com Organization: Pacific Institute of Technology Lines: 17 In article <1992Apr17.061759.20032@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>, bt479@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Gary Stollman) writes... Come on!!! Give me a break!!! The shrinnk I was seeing in Tallahassee last year before I dropped him told me about this nonsense...Listen, you better get something and get it good; I am NOT insane, and this is ALL true, and by next week you may wish you had a one-way ticket to Mars!! If you don't believe me, check out where this is coming from, then check out my new signature...Nice, ain't it?? Gary -- Gary Stollman GEnie:G.STOLLMAN Internet:garys@bluemoon.rn.com Don't think I'm crazy cause I know twenty computer languages and have stolen more time on computers for free than you know about!! Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!lll-winken!taurus!se3!lindsey From: lindsey@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil (daniel lindsey) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <4653@se3.cs.nps.navy.mil> Date: 17 Apr 92 15:56:12 GMT References: <1992Apr12.230048.15124@anasaz> <1kq0iB1w164w@bluemoon.rn.com> Reply-To: lindsey@cs.nps.navy.mil (daniel lindsey) Organization: Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey CA Lines: 12 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5338 alt.conspiracy:14210 talk.religion.newage:10084 alt.paranormal:4801 I agree, Gary, that you haven't adopted an obnoxious signature, but my compliments on a quite clever sig. For those of you so convinced of Gary's lunacy that every word he posts is suspect (gee, he must be crazy, look, he can't even match singular & plural correctly in his sig), stop and think: your sysop already has another Gary-account, so he adds the first initial of your last name. Thus your account is Garys. Garys @ someplace sounds like more than one Gary. Thus _they_ don't have _their_ own obnoxious sig yet. I think this guy is having everyone on ;-). DaLNZ Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!ut-emx!ibmchs!auschs!awdprime.austin.ibm.com!woofer.austin.ibm.com!jlpicard From: jlpicard@woofer.austin.ibm.com (Craig Becker) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Mach6 spy plane Keywords: spy ufo plane Message-ID: <1992Apr15.200300.23941@awdprime.austin.ibm.com> Date: 15 Apr 92 20:03:00 GMT References: <204844@unix.cis.pitt.edu> <1992Apr13.153114.18290@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> Sender: usenet@awdprime.austin.ibm.com (USENET News) Reply-To: craigb@ot.austin.ibm.com Organization: IBM Object Technology Products Lines: 15 ... [talk of the SR 71 Blackbird deleted] ... > (It is also, in my opinion, the most beautiful aircraft ever made, a > streamlined work of art). Yes, I agree. I was massively PO'ed when the government decided they were "obsolete". I think they should have kept them flying as a matter of national pride. Craig -- "To every man is given the Craig Becker, Object Technology Products -- -- key to the gates of heaven; Internet: craigb@ot.austin.ibm.com -- -- the same key opens the gates Austin: craigb@woofer.austin.ibm.com -- -- of hell" - Buddhist proverb VNET: CRAIGB at AUSVM1 -- Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!math.fu-berlin.de!news.netmbx.de!zelator!leo From: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de (Stefan Hartmann) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic Subject: Berlin UFO congress,uncle Virgil tells fairy tales! Summary: ufo Keywords: ufo Message-ID: <22D2XFC@zelator.in-berlin.de> Date: 17 Apr 92 22:12:25 GMT Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System Lines: 67 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5340 sci.space:29136 alt.conspiracy:14211 sci.skeptic:22783 Hi to all UFO-investigators out there, I'm just back from the UFO-conference from Berlin, Germany, where I live. The first lecture was by Virgil Armstrong, an ex-CIA worker. It was so disapointing: Uncle Virgil was only telling fairy tales !!! Gee, was this guy ridiculous !!! He only claimed things, but did not have one proof !! No photos, no pictures, no broken ufo-metalls, just cheap talk !! He had 2 hours time for his lecture. He was announced to talk about the UFO-crash in Roswell, New Mexico in 1947 and the Project Grudge etc.. But after one and a half hour he still was speaking about positive and negative energy, until I interrupted him and asked, what about the UFO-crash ! Then he still spoke 10 minutes about bla,bla and then he just tapped a little bit the crash story, that was already told better over here on the net ! He only drawed a few sketches onto the blackboard of an UFO and an alien with a big head, but a little girl would have done this better, I think. Then there came suddenly a lady from the local room office-staff into the lecture room and said, the time is over, we have to do soundcheck for the next speaker. Then uncle Virgil Amstrong went with his "fans" into a smaller room and still there was only claims and not any more information about the UFO-crash !! What a guy, he is real fake ! I should have choosen another lecture ! But I thought this topic about ufo-crash would be the most interesting topic of this conference, cause the other speakers mostly lecture about spiritual cases like channeling and psychololical research on abducted people etc. This might be also interesting, but You can't proove or disproove anything of it, cause You only have the claims of the persons and no pictures of some real sightings ! Okay, one good thing was the entrance hall. There were some pretty good new books out there with pretty good new pictures I not did have yet. So it is not to far away, that there will be some more scanned pictures from me on the UFO-pics-FTP-site at phoenix.oulu.fi (10.231.240.17) in /pub/incoming or /pub/ufo_and_space_pics Have a look over there regularly ! By the way, what do You all think about the Ed Walters GIF-pictures over there?=? Please let me know. Post it to alt.alien.visitores please. Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for Decentral Energy Research email to: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de -- ******************************************************************************* * Stefan Hartmann This is how to contact me: * * EMAIL: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de * * Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79 * ******************************************************************************* Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!news.acns.nwu.edu!sforslev From: sforslev@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Susanne Forslev) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Rockefeller Syndicate Message-ID: <1992Apr18.025026.18889@casbah.acns.nwu.edu> Date: 18 Apr 92 02:50:26 GMT References: <1992Apr17.125042.1@kscdl1.ksc.nasa.gov> Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois Lines: 27 >BTW, has anybody already downloaded the alien.gif picture and the Ed Walters >GIF-pictures from phoenix.oulu.fi (130.231.240.17) /pub/ufo_and_space_pics ??? >What do You think all about these pics ?? >Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for >Decentral Energy Research >email to: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de Stefan - I think that the Ed Walter's pictures look like the flying saucers in _Godzilla vs Monster Zero_. If you get bad Japanese monster movies in Berlin, check it out. Monster Zero is a flying dragon that I think has 3 heads. >-- > >******************************************************************************* >* Stefan Hartmann This is how to contact me: * >* EMAIL: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de * >* Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79 * >******************************************************************************* Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!mp.cs.niu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!jbh55289 From: jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh 'K' Hopkins) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space Subject: Re: Federation Answers All Your Questions Message-ID: <1992Apr18.044359.5129@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> Date: 18 Apr 92 04:43:59 GMT References: <1992Apr17.123039.1@acad2.alaska.edu> <1992Apr17.220147.17952@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <1992Apr17.162819.1@max.u.washington.edu> Sender: usenet@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (News) Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana Lines: 34 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5342 sci.space:29143 games@max.u.washington.edu writes: >In article <1992Apr17.220147.17952@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh 'K' Hopkins) writes: >> [stuff on 'Federation' making computer icons and uniforms before 'drive crystals' deleted] >It seems to me that the emotional recruitment approach might work, since >the rhetoric stated that members would come from the 'cons. If this is the >case, the uniforms and logos are far more important to initial fundraising >than working hardware. > John Stevens-Schlick Hmmm... wasn't there a discussion of founding a 'space religion' a while ago? :) I read SF and I realize that there are many fine people who do. However, I have to admit I'm skeptical about this concept of recruiting all the members from Trek conventions and expecting them to make great strides in propulsion technology in their spare time. (besides, anybody who pays $10 a _minute_ for modem time has got to be out of their mind!) I'd like to see a grass roots movement to space, but this just goes to show that it'll take a while for a real one to happen. :( Josh Hopkins >(Of course, >>I<< wouldn't give them money without seeing the blueprints, >but IF I saw reasonable blueprints, and some initial working stuff, I might >be enticed into being someone to build stuff for them at home. {However, >what do YOU think the chances are of seeing initial proof of principal working >hardware... NOT}) Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!ames!titan.ksc.nasa.gov!kscdl1.ksc.nasa.gov!lockhart From: lockhart@kscdl1.ksc.nasa.gov Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Rockefeller Syndicate Message-ID: <1992Apr17.125042.1@kscdl1.ksc.nasa.gov> Date: 17 Apr 92 17:50:42 GMT Organization: NASA, Kennedy Space Center, FL Lines: 18 Nntp-Posting-Host: kscdl1.cad.ksc.nasa.gov Don: Why are you posting such drivel here? Is that not what alt.conspiracy is for? If you can show me *any* even *remote* connection to alt.alien. visitors I will eat my words, but in the meantime, IMO, this is a waste of bandwidth. Susy -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | $ @disclaimer opinions are mine | +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Susy Lockhart | " I need this like I need a butt implant." | | EG & G Florida | | | Kennedy Space Center | Opus | +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | email: lockhart@kscdl1.ksc.nasa.gov | +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!watserv1!watdragon!watyew!jdnicoll From: jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <1992Apr18.013716.25168@watdragon.waterloo.edu> Date: 18 Apr 92 01:37:16 GMT References: <57450@cup.portal.com> <1992Apr17.005001.26299@watdragon.waterloo.edu> <22786@dog.ee.lbl.gov> Sender: news@watdragon.waterloo.edu (USENET News System) Distribution: na Organization: University of Waterloo Lines: 20 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5344 alt.conspiracy:14217 talk.religion.newage:10085 alt.paranormal:4804 In article <22786@dog.ee.lbl.gov> sichase@csa1.lbl.gov writes: >In article <1992Apr17.005001.26299@watdragon.waterloo.edu>, jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) writes... >> >> Ha! Arcturus is population II, and doesn't have those heavy elements >>so vital to terrestrial planet forming, technology, life and a sense of >>humor. Clearly an attempt at disinformation: just what kind of fools do >>you take us for? > >The kind of fool that forgets that population I stars don't have the heavy >elements, but population II stars do. :') > >(Boy, I hope I got this right, given my atitude). Hey, nice to see you don't let lack of knowledge stop you from posting. Pop I and Pop II are named in the order they were noticed. Guess which type Sol is (Hint: check the elements in the crust of the Earth, which formed from the same material the sun did)? James Nicoll Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!bluemoon!garys From: garys@bluemoon.rn.com (Gary Stollman) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: Date: 18 Apr 92 01:42:09 GMT References: <6594@shodha.enet.dec.com> Sender: bbs@bluemoon.rn.com (BBS Login) Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024]) Lines: 26 stollman@nut.case.dick.head (Gary Stollman) writes: > > Come on!!! Give me a break!!! The shrinnk I was seeing in > Tallahassee last year before I dropped him told me about this > nonsense...Listen, you better get something and get it good; > I am NOT insane, and this is ALL true, and by next week you > may wish you had a one-way ticket to Mars!! If you don't believe > me, check out where this is coming from, then check out my new > signature...Nice, ain't it?? > > Gary > -- > Gary Stollman GEnie:G.STOLLMAN > Internet:garys@bluemoon.rn.com > Don't think I'm crazy cause I know twenty computer languages and > have stolen more time on computers for free than you know about!! ***** Hey, that's a cute trick! Show ME how to do it sometime... Gary This is from garys@bluemoon.rn.com who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!bluemoon!garys From: garys@bluemoon.rn.com (Gary Stollman) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: Date: 18 Apr 92 01:45:30 GMT References: <4653@se3.cs.nps.navy.mil> Sender: bbs@bluemoon.rn.com (BBS Login) Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024]) Lines: 21 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5346 alt.conspiracy:14220 talk.religion.newage:10086 alt.paranormal:4805 lindsey@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil (daniel lindsey) writes: > I agree, Gary, that you haven't adopted an obnoxious signature, but my > compliments on a quite clever sig. > For those of you so convinced of Gary's lunacy that every word he posts > is suspect (gee, he must be crazy, look, he can't even match singular & > plural correctly in his sig), stop and think: > your sysop already has another Gary-account, so he adds the first initial > of your last name. Thus your account is Garys. Garys @ someplace sounds > like more than one Gary. Thus _they_ don't have _their_ own obnoxious > sig yet. > I think this guy is having everyone on ;-). > > DaLNZ ***** You are WRONG, but who cares... This is from garys@bluemoon.rn.com who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!aero.org!zeus From: zeus@aero.org (Dave Suess) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: INVASION!!! [sincerity] Summary: not a put-on, exactly. Message-ID: <1992Apr17.181656.19931@aero.org> Date: 17 Apr 92 18:16:56 GMT References: <1992Apr12.230048.15124@anasaz> <1kq0iB1w164w@bluemoon.rn.com> <4653@se3.cs.nps.navy.mil> Sender: news@aero.org Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA Lines: 13 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5347 alt.conspiracy:14223 talk.religion.newage:10087 alt.paranormal:4806 In article <4653@se3.cs.nps.navy.mil>, lindsey@cs.nps.navy.mil (daniel lindsey) writes: >I think this guy is having everyone on ;-). I remember watching the news the night a man appeared behind Horowitz with a gun. The station, to discourage such behavior, cut and did not comply with demands to read the statement. I also remember kindly Dr. Stollman, who was the Friendly Pharmacist. So have your fun with Gary, hell, print your home address for him. Maybe he'll drop in someday. Dave Suess zeus@aerospace.aero.org Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!csa1.lbl.gov!sichase From: sichase@csa1.lbl.gov (SCOTT I CHASE) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <22786@dog.ee.lbl.gov> Date: 17 Apr 92 19:30:21 GMT References: <57450@cup.portal.com> <1992Apr17.005001.26299@watdragon.waterloo.edu> Reply-To: sichase@csa1.lbl.gov Distribution: na Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA Lines: 15 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5348 alt.conspiracy:14224 talk.religion.newage:10088 alt.paranormal:4807 NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.196 News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4 In article <1992Apr17.005001.26299@watdragon.waterloo.edu>, jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) writes... > > Ha! Arcturus is population II, and doesn't have those heavy elements >so vital to terrestrial planet forming, technology, life and a sense of >humor. Clearly an attempt at disinformation: just what kind of fools do >you take us for? The kind of fool that forgets that population I stars don't have the heavy elements, but population II stars do. :') (Boy, I hope I got this right, given my atitude). -------------------- Scott I. Chase SICHASE@CSA2.LBL.GOV Path: ns-mx!uunet!bonnie.concordia.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!bison!draco!orion!stimpsn From: stimpsn@bbs.orion.bison.mb.ca (Gary Stimpson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: ELECTRONIC IMPLANTS MADE BY HUMANS Message-ID: Date: 18 Apr 92 17:55:45 GMT References: <92107.124246U55909@uicvm.uic.edu> Sender: bbs@orion.bison.mb.ca (BBS Account) Organization: The Orion Unix System [A/UX 2.0.1], Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Lines: 21 writes: > Very Interesting, indeed! When I was the mall a few months ago, I received a > lyer(so did every other car in the ENTIRE parking lot!) from a "religious" gr > p (sorry, i'm not sure) that stated that plans were under way in the Netherla > s (Banking Central of the world :-) ) to develop a sort of UPC code for human > (a.k.a elctronic implant?) But there's more, It also said how every credit c > d has a special code (i'm not sure but Visa is 777, Am. Express is 999,etc.) > d this new "UPC" code is 666!!!! So they were stating that the asnti-christ > not some stupid devil, but rather our fellow humans in power! This is all fr > memory, i'm sorry, but that was the theme pretty much! Whaddya think??? Strange stuff. I never knew credit cards had code #'s like that. Can someone verify this? Well, don't be fooled by what people say! Ttyl, Gary -- stimpsn@bbs.orion.bison.mb.ca (Gary Stimpson) The Orion Unix System [A/UX 2.0.1], Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Path: ns-mx!uunet!bonnie.concordia.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!bison!draco!orion!stimpsn From: stimpsn@bbs.orion.bison.mb.ca (Gary Stimpson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <5RRFJB3w164w@bbs.orion.bison.mb.ca> Date: 18 Apr 92 18:00:51 GMT References: <1992Apr17.061759.20032@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> Sender: bbs@orion.bison.mb.ca (BBS Account) Organization: The Orion Unix System [A/UX 2.0.1], Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Lines: 24 bt479@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Gary Stollman) writes: > > Come on!!! Give me a break!!! The shrinnk I was seeing in > Tallahassee last year before I dropped him told me about this > nonsense...Listen, you better get something and get it good; > I am NOT insane, and this is ALL true, and by next week you > may wish you had a one-way ticket to Mars!! If you don't believe > me, check out where this is coming from, then check out my new > signature...Nice, ain't it?? I don't think you're insane. What's going to happen next week? > Don't think I'm crazy cause I know twenty computer languages and > have stolen more time on computers for free than you know about!! Nice sig. :) "I'm not paranoid, everybody's just out to get me!" Gary -- stimpsn@bbs.orion.bison.mb.ca (Gary Stimpson) The Orion Unix System [A/UX 2.0.1], Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!noiro.oac.uci.edu!meroot.eng.uci.edu!ruman From: ruman@meroot.eng.uci.edu (runner) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.slack,alt.stupidity Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again... Keywords: burp fart Message-ID: <29F094C1.25809@noiro.acs.uci.edu> Date: 18 Apr 92 21:29:37 GMT References: <1992Apr7.024534.159@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Distribution: ca Organization: University of California, Irvine Lines: 83 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5351 alt.slack:3063 alt.stupidity:4752 Nntp-Posting-Host: meroot.eng.uci.edu In article arg@arghouse.UUCP (G.Argendeli-Sysop) writes: >klein@kira.egr.msu.edu (Jeffrey Klein) writes: > >> In article smedley@milton.u.washington.edu (Willia >> >bur@soil.gsfc.nasa.gov (Mike Bur) writes: >> > >> >>In article <-zlj3qq.raj@netcom.com> raj@netcom.com (Roger Lee) writes: >> >>>In <1992Apr4.004715.17931@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> bur@ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov >> >>> >> >>>>In article kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Pa >> >>>>>In article <1992Apr2.015814.14003@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> bur@ultisol.gsfc >> >>>>>>In article <1992Apr1.020902.587@zip.eecs.umich.edu> fields@zip.eecs.umi >> >>>>>>>In article <1992Mar31.211150.13627@cs.rose-hulman.edu> waldbyjf@NeXTwo >> >>>>>>>>In article <1992Mar28.192924.17253@acsu.buffalo.edu> >> >>>>>>>>majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) writes: >> >>>>>>>>> sramming@athena.mit.edu (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes: >> >>>>>>>>> >In article <1992Mar27.033812.25302@acsu.buffalo.edu> >> >>>>>>>>majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) writes: >> >>>>>>>>> >>klm@gozer.mv.com (Kevin L. McBride) writes: >> >>>>>>>>> >>>kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >> >>>>>>>>> >>>> In article <1992Mar25.012450.7508@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> >> >>>>>>>>press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes: >> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >In article <1992Mar20.031338.3813@nntp.uoregon.edu>, >> >>>>>>>>rtaylor@cie.uoregon.edu (Russ Taylor) writes: >> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> In article kibo@world.std.com (J >> >>>>>>>>'Kibo' Parry) writes: >> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed] >> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS. >> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper. >> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH. I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOUL >> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*. >> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but on >> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> added your ten cents? A thousand-degree flame on you! >> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!) >> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth? >> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich >> >>>>>>>>> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width. >> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it? >> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >because he made a paste of it >> >>>>>>>>> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it. >> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor >> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >he never was a sailor >> >>>>>>>>> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer. >> >>>>>>>>> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE? PLEASE EXERC >> >>>>>>>>> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT. >> >>>>>>>>> >>>Okay. >> >>>>>>>>> >> Come on guys, I think he means it. Don't follow up to this. >> >>>>>>>>> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious. >> >>>>>>>>> >Go ahead and follow up. >> >>>>>>>>> >Or kill me. >> >>>>>>>>> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess. >> >>>>>>>>Shhhh! >> >>>>>>>>> >sramming@athena.mit.edu >> >>>>>>>>> >M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming 305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge MA >> >>>>>>>>> >( the nonibo -ibo ) (617) 225-9887 [home] (617) 253-7942 [of >> >>>>>>>>> No! Don't follow up to this! Whatever you do, _don't_ press >> >>>>>>>>> that "f" button! It's a sin! It's a sin! This is against the god >> >>>>>>>>> of bandwidth and all that is wholly! See what you do! You waste a >> >>>>>>>>> waste and waste until the unthinkable happens! Nay, until the >> >>>>>>>>> _unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the >> >>>>>>>>> world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up! My >> >>>>>>>>> _GOD_! How can you even think it! How can you dream it and still >> >>>>>>>>> remain sane?!?!? How can it be?!?!?!?! Gah!!!! >> >>>>>>>>> majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu | The meek shall inherit the earth, >> >>>>>>>>> v061regm@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu | and the wise keep moving on... >> >>>>>>>>> Rev. M @P.O. Box 156 O |------------------------------------ >> >>>>>>>>> Amherst, NY 14226 + |Ask me about the Secret Society! Sh >> >>>>>>>>What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion? I >> >>>>>>>>missed the earlier parts. >> >>>>>>There. No more wasted "Bandwidth" >> >>>>>Huh? >> >>>>Duh! >> >>>NOT! >> >>Got. >> >Gott. >> What? >Je Ne Comprends Pas.... Pas! burp ------------------------------------o----------------------^ -- Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!noiro.oac.uci.edu!meroot.eng.uci.edu!ruman From: ruman@meroot.eng.uci.edu (runner) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.slack,alt.stupidity Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again... Keywords: two burps Message-ID: <29F095B9.25909@noiro.acs.uci.edu> Date: 18 Apr 92 21:33:45 GMT References: <1992Apr7.024534.159@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> <92107.112047ALY101@psuvm.psu.edu> Distribution: na Organization: University of California, Irvine Lines: 118 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5352 alt.slack:3064 alt.stupidity:4753 Nntp-Posting-Host: meroot.eng.uci.edu In article royander@sal-sun125.usc.edu (Roy Anderson) writes: > >In article <92107.112047ALY101@psuvm.psu.edu>, writes: >|> In article , royander@sal-sun109.usc.edu (Roy >|> Anderson) says: >|> > >|> >In article , arg@arghouse.UUCP (G.Argendeli-Sysop) >|> >writes: >|> >|> klein@kira.egr.msu.edu (Jeffrey Klein) writes: >|> >|> >|> >|> > In article smedley@milton.u.washington.edu >|> >(Willia >|> >|> > >bur@soil.gsfc.nasa.gov (Mike Bur) writes: >|> >|> > > >|> >|> > >>In article <-zlj3qq.raj@netcom.com> raj@netcom.com (Roger Lee) writes: >|> >|> > >>>In <1992Apr4.004715.17931@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> >|> >bur@ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov >|> >|> > >>> >|> >|> > >>>>In article kibo@world.std.com (James >|> >'Kibo' >|> >Pa >|> >|> > >>>>>In article <1992Apr2.015814.14003@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> >|> >bur@ultisol.gsfc >|> >|> > >>>>>>In article <1992Apr1.020902.587@zip.eecs.umich.edu> >|> >fields@zip.eecs.umi >|> >|> > >>>>>>>In article <1992Mar31.211150.13627@cs.rose-hulman.edu> >|> >waldbyjf@NeXTwo >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>In article <1992Mar28.192924.17253@acsu.buffalo.edu> >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) writes: >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> sramming@athena.mit.edu (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes: >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >In article <1992Mar27.033812.25302@acsu.buffalo.edu> >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~) writes: >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>klm@gozer.mv.com (Kevin L. McBride) writes: >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> In article <1992Mar25.012450.7508@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes: >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >In article <1992Mar20.031338.3813@nntp.uoregon.edu>, >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>rtaylor@cie.uoregon.edu (Russ Taylor) writes: >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> In article >|> >kibo@world.std.com >|> >(J >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>'Kibo' Parry) writes: >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed] >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS. >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper. >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH. I WISH YOU PEOPLE >|> >WOUL >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*. >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, >|> >but >|> >on >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> added your ten cents? A thousand-degree flame on you! >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!) >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth? >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width. >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it? >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >because he made a paste of it >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it. >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >he never was a sailor >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer. >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE? PLEASE >|> >EXERC >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT. >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>Okay. >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >> Come on guys, I think he means it. Don't follow up to >|> >this. >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious. >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >Go ahead and follow up. >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >Or kill me. >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess. >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>Shhhh! >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >sramming@athena.mit.edu >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming 305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge >|> >MA >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >( the nonibo -ibo ) (617) 225-9887 [home] (617) 253-7942 >|> >[of >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> No! Don't follow up to this! Whatever you do, _don't_ press >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> that "f" button! It's a sin! It's a sin! This is against the >|> >god >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> of bandwidth and all that is wholly! See what you do! You e >|> >wast >|> >a >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> waste and waste until the unthinkable happens! Nay, until the >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> _unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up! >|> >My >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> _GOD_! How can you even think it! How can you dream it and >|> >still >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> remain sane?!?!? How can it be?!?!?!?! Gah!!!! >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu | The meek shall inherit the , >|> >earth >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> v061regm@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu | and the wise keep moving on... >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> Rev. M @P.O. Box 156 O >|> >|------------------------------------ >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> Amherst, NY 14226 + |Ask me about the Secret Society! >|> >Sh >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion? >|> >I >|> >|> > >>>>>>>>missed the earlier parts. >|> >|> > >>>>>>There. No more wasted "Bandwidth" >|> >|> > >>>>>Huh? >|> >|> > >>>>Duh! >|> >|> > >>>NOT! >|> >|> > >>Got. >|> >|> > >Gott. >|> >|> > What? >|> >|> Je Ne Comprends Pas.... Pas! >|> >Paass the pepper, salty! >|> Grass is healthy, mostly. >Only when chewed slowly!! besides, it makes u pee ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`^^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~O -- Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!darwin.sura.net!mlb.semi.harris.com!uflorida!pine.circa.ufl.edu!username From: username@pine.circa.ufl.edu (Elmer Fudd, Millionaire) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <35179@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu> Date: 18 Apr 92 21:16:18 GMT References: <57450@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu Reply-To: username@pine.circa.ufl.edu Followup-To: /dev/null Organization: University Domain (edu) Lines: 22 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5353 alt.conspiracy:14240 talk.religion.newage:10089 alt.paranormal:4808 Nntp-Posting-Host: pine.circa.ufl.edu In article <57450@cup.portal.com>, mmm@cup.portal.com (Mark Robert Thorson) writes... >Gary, you're absolutely right! I was one of those aliens, sent here >from Arcturus to spy and harass you Earthlings. You're an Arcturan?!?!?!?! Well, I'm a Zeta-Reticulan!!! We're practically neighbors! Hiya, friend! >And how do you explain the incredible energy emanating from the hands >of BENNY HINN? Yes friends, the Arcturans are everywhere! Wait a minute.. Now I know Benny.. He's definitely from the Pleiades. I'm most certain, as I onced was in the business of creating fake Driver's Liscences, and I used his as the 'preferred' copy, so everyone I made an ID for has his address, and I distinctly recall it was 421 Lover's Lane, Ipipoxshia, Pleiades, 90026. Stephen Wright: I woke up this morning and I looked around and everything in my apartment had been stolen and replaced by an exact duplicate. I called my friend and said "Come over" and he came I asked him "Look, evertyhing in my apartments been replaced by an exact duplicate. What do you think?", and he looked at me and he said "Do I know you?" Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!tulane!darwin.sura.net!convex!seas.smu.edu!utacfd.uta.edu!utagraph.uta.edu!utacnvx.uta.edu!rpcirp From: rpcirp@utacnvx.uta.edu (Dr. Ard Anjomani) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <1992Apr18.034913.18093@utagraph.uta.edu> Date: 18 Apr 92 03:49:13 GMT References: <1992Apr16.003806.4972@anasaz> <6k5cJB1w164w@bluemoon.rn.com> Sender: news@utagraph.uta.edu (USENET News System) Organization: University of Texas at Arlington Lines: 17 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5354 alt.conspiracy:14252 talk.religion.newage:10090 alt.paranormal:4809 Nntp-Posting-Host: utacnvx.uta.edu X-Bytes: 398 In article <6k5cJB1w164w@bluemoon.rn.com> garys@bluemoon.rn.com (Gary Stollman) writes: >Not only do I believe it, I intend to PROVE it!! > > Gary > > This is from > garys@bluemoon.rn.com We are waiting :) PROOF! PROOF! PROOF! [Holding toy guns to the heads of TV newspeople doen't quite send the right message. Nurse, 1500mg Thorazine please.] Did you take your lithium today? Path: ns-mx!uunet!vuse.vanderbilt.edu!chandra From: chandra@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (Rohit Chandra) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Gary Message-ID: <1992Apr19.031655.9898@vuse.vanderbilt.edu> Date: 19 Apr 92 03:16:55 GMT Sender: news@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (News Manager) Organization: Vanderbilt University School of Engineering, Nashville, TN, USA Lines: 27 Originator: chandra@cs8 Nntp-Posting-Host: cs8 This is specifically addressed to evrybody flaming Gary - The story that Gary has narrated is definitely OUT OF THIS WORLD !! :-) Either the guy is TOTALLY NUTS - In which case it is extremely cruel for so many people to crawl all over him at the same time, as if the guy doesn't have enough problems already !! On the other hand, if he is right about everything - U r nuts !! (No offense intended) So, people lets get off his back and give him a fair oppurtunity to prove his claims. (Remeber : he intends to). -- _ Later... Rohit Chandra {~}' ( V-) Work : +1 615 322-0962 `|Y|' BitNet : chandrr@vuctrvax _|||_ InterNet: chandra@vuse.vanderbilt.edu ______________________________________________________________________________ Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!bluemoon!garys From: garys@bluemoon.rn.com (Gary Stollman) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: Date: 18 Apr 92 15:47:54 GMT References: <1992Apr17.061759.20032@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> Sender: bbs@bluemoon.rn.com (BBS Login) Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024]) Lines: 26 bt479@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Gary Stollman) writes: > > Come on!!! Give me a break!!! The shrinnk I was seeing in > Tallahassee last year before I dropped him told me about this > nonsense...Listen, you better get something and get it good; > I am NOT insane, and this is ALL true, and by next week you > may wish you had a one-way ticket to Mars!! If you don't believe > me, check out where this is coming from, then check out my new > signature...Nice, ain't it?? > > Gary > -- > Gary Stollman GEnie:G.STOLLMAN > Internet:garys@bluemoon.rn.com > Don't think I'm crazy cause I know twenty computer languages and > have stolen more time on computers for free than you know about!! ***** Hmm, here is the REAL note I sent...Interesting, isn't it?? This takes a whole day or two to get here, and the notes which were "intercepted", only took a few hours...I wonder who did that... This is from garys@bluemoon.rn.com who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!anasaz!qip!john From: john@anasaz (John Moore) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <1992Apr18.174907.16313@anasaz> Date: 18 Apr 92 17:49:07 GMT Organization: Anasazi, Inc. Phoenix, AZ, USA Lines: 29 Keywords: In article <6594@shodha.enet.dec.com> stollman@nut.case.dick.head (Gary Stollman) writes: ]Come on!!! Give me a break!!! The shrinnk I was seeing in ]Tallahassee last year before I dropped him told me about this ]nonsense...Listen, you better get something and get it good; ]I am NOT insane, and this is ALL true, and by next week you ]may wish you had a one-way ticket to Mars!! If you don't believe ]me, check out where this is coming from, then check out my new ]signature...Nice, ain't it?? Boy, you sure had me worried for a minute there. Now that I know this is all a hoax on your part, I feel much better. ]Don't think I'm crazy cause I know twenty computer languages and ]have stolen more time on computers for free than you know about!! God I hope not! I have used over 30 computer languages, and stole computer time so long ago that it was still legal, and I don't think I'm crazy! -Disclaimer: I don't steal computer time or hack other people's systems any more, and haven't since I was a foolish college student in the '60s. -- John Moore NJ7E, 7525 Clearwater Pkwy, Scottsdale, AZ 85253 (602-951-9326) john@anasazi.com ncar!noao!asuvax!anasaz!john anasaz!john@asuvax.eas.asu.edu This is a newer version of the memetic .signature infection. Now that's an idea. Copy it into your .signature today! Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!nosc!crash!benno From: benno@crash.cts.com (Benno Eichmann) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: ELECTRONIC IMPLANTS MADE BY HUMANS, UPC product code: `666' Message-ID: <1992Apr19.074611.24607@crash.cts.com> Date: 19 Apr 92 07:46:11 GMT References: <92107.124246U55909@uicvm.uic.edu> Organization: Crash TimeSharing, El Cajon, CA Lines: 33 In stimpsn@bbs.orion.bison.mb.ca (Gary Stimpson) writes: > writes: >> Very Interesting, indeed! When I was the mall a few months ago, I received a >> lyer(so did every other car in the ENTIRE parking lot!) from a "religious" gr >> p (sorry, i'm not sure) that stated that plans were under way in the Netherla >> s (Banking Central of the world :-) ) to develop a sort of UPC code for human >> (a.k.a elctronic implant?) But there's more, It also said how every credit c >> d has a special code (i'm not sure but Visa is 777, Am. Express is 999,etc.) >> d this new "UPC" code is 666!!!! So they were stating that the asnti-christ >> not some stupid devil, but rather our fellow humans in power! This is all fr >> memory, i'm sorry, but that was the theme pretty much! Whaddya think??? >Strange stuff. I never knew credit cards had code #'s like that. Can >someone verify this? Well, don't be fooled by what people say! To Check: Oserve, in a standard UPC code strip sequence, the pattern associated with the number 6. Then compare that pattern to did a neat trick by using the SYNC sequence pattern for the left-most, center, right-most codes. The designer asigned that same pattern for the number 6. What was the persons point one might ask? Just another confused person ? > >Ttyl, >Gary >-- >stimpsn@bbs.orion.bison.mb.ca (Gary Stimpson) >The Orion Unix System [A/UX 2.0.1], Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!nosc!crash!benno From: benno@crash.cts.com (Benno Eichmann) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space Subject: Re: Federation Answers All Your Questions Message-ID: <1992Apr19.081215.24984@crash.cts.com> Date: 19 Apr 92 08:12:15 GMT References: <1992Apr17.123039.1@acad2.alaska.edu> Organization: Crash TimeSharing, El Cajon, CA Lines: 7 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5359 sci.space:29163 Have there been any genuine alien off-world race contacts with your group? Government contact from any concerned agency? Just curious Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!jato!quake!bbs From: nateh@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Nate Hawthorn) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space Subject: Re: THE FEDERATIONERS HAVEN'T DIED! Message-ID: Date: 19 Apr 92 05:24:16 GMT References: <1992Apr15.133734.1@acad2.alaska.edu> Sender: bbs@quake.sylmar.ca.us (BBS User) Organization: Quake Public Access Lines: 16 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5360 sci.space:29164 asljl@acad2.alaska.edu writes: > > Hi Remeber when a person put a note about a group wanting to go to the moon? I am interested, please send me more info or whatever. You should have a "echo" here via E-Mail, I could help set up one. There's more people interested in this than you think, lets reach them I am near CIT and would love to visit you. I am very good with theories if you would like to have a very interesting discussion! Please contact me... Nate.. Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!rpi!psinntp!psinntp!visix!visix!ed From: ed@visix.com (Ed Devinney) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: galactic ftp sites Message-ID: <1992Apr17.171545.22251@visix.com> Date: 17 Apr 92 17:15:45 GMT References: <1992Apr14.172948.959@desire.wright.edu> Sender: news@visix.com Reply-To: ed@visix.com Organization: Visix Software Inc., Reston, VA Lines: 18 In article <1992Apr14.172948.959@desire.wright.edu>, cse0935@desire.wright.edu writes: > Does anyone have a list of the newest inter-planetary/inter-glalatic > ftp sites? I hear the Pleiades has a bitchin' ftp archive, but it's tough to get a stable connection, what with the multi-year latency times. AT&T's ReachOutUniverse FTL plan might help, but at seven quadrillion dollars for the first three minutes, you'll want a really fast modem. Or you could always ping monolith.moon.earth.sol and see if the local node is up... -- ed devinney ed@visix.com software guy Visix Software Inc., Reston, VA, USA "We like sheep..." - G.F. Handel Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!news.ysu.edu!ysub!psuvm!cunyvm!a54si From: A54SI@CUNYVM.BITNET Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories Subject: Dr. Hooper research Message-ID: <92110.205424A54SI@CUNYVM.BITNET> Date: 20 Apr 92 00:54:24 GMT Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center Lines: 8 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5362 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1313 I am starting research into the results found by Dr. W. Hooper of possibly a new sort of electric field generated by moving charges somehow. He did this in the 50s and 60s, and this research was the basis of the theories of the fringe scientist Wilbert Smith. Please send any information or questions & comments. Thank you. Charles Hope a54si@cunyvm a54si@cunyvm.cuny.edu Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!uunet!bonnie.concordia.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!bison!draco!sys6626!gstimp From: gstimp@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Gary Stimpson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: A question. Message-ID: Date: 20 Apr 92 04:40:14 GMT Organization: system 6626 BBS, Winnipeg MB Lines: 7 WHY in the world would anybody want to go to the moon? Gary ;--- (Gary Stimpson) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64 ;E-mail: gstimp@sys6626.bison.mb.ca ;system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8 Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!decwrl!pa.dec.com!shodha.enet.dec.com!major.league.nut.case!stollman From: stollman@major.league.nut.case (Gary Stollman) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <6614@shodha.enet.dec.com> Date: 20 Apr 92 13:50:03 GMT Sender: news@shodha.enet.dec.com Organization: Tallahase Nut Farm and BBQ Lines: 24 In article , garys@bluemoon.rn.com (Gary Stollman) writes... >stollman@nut.case.dick.head (Gary Stollman) writes: >Hey, that's a cute trick! Show ME how to do it sometime... > > Gary > > This is from > garys@bluemoon.rn.com >who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet Well you claim to know 20 programming languages (no less) and are so intelligent you figure out how. Gary (The REAL one not the clone phoney) This is from garys@bluemoon.rn.com who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet But is incredibly obnoxious none the less. Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!decwrl!pa.dec.com!shodha.enet.dec.com!major.league.nut.case!stollman From: stollman@major.league.nut.case (Gary Stollman) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <6615@shodha.enet.dec.com> Date: 20 Apr 92 14:02:19 GMT Sender: news@shodha.enet.dec.com Organization: Tallahassee Nut Farm and BBQ Lines: 14 In article , garys@bluemoon.rn.com (Gary Stollman) writes... >Hmm, here is the REAL note I sent...Interesting, isn't it?? This takes a >whole day or two to get here, and the notes which were "intercepted", only >took a few hours...I wonder who did that... > > This is from > garys@bluemoon.rn.com >who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet I did! Gary (The real Gary Stollman and not the clone phoney) Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!decwrl!pa.dec.com!shodha.enet.dec.com!timpson From: timpson@shodha.enet.dec.com (Steve Timpson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: galactic ftp sites Message-ID: <6616@shodha.enet.dec.com> Date: 20 Apr 92 14:08:05 GMT Sender: news@shodha.enet.dec.com Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 15 In article <1992Apr17.171545.22251@visix.com>, ed@visix.com (Ed Devinney) writes... >In article <1992Apr14.172948.959@desire.wright.edu>, cse0935@desire.wright.edu writes: >> Does anyone have a list of the newest inter-planetary/inter-glalatic >> ftp sites? > >I hear the Pleiades has a bitchin' ftp archive, but it's tough to >get a stable connection, what with the multi-year latency times. > What you need is the latest in Sub Space Modems (SSM's) using the latest X.4000000 protocal. It has a 1 X 10^100^100 baud rate. Steve Food_for_the_Greys Path: ns-mx!uunet!clarkson!derrigfj From: derrigfj@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Frank J. Derrigo) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: FAQ site? Message-ID: Date: 20 Apr 92 16:35:27 GMT Sender: news@news.clarkson.edu Organization: Clarkson University Lines: 7 Nntp-Posting-Host: logic.camp.clarkson.edu Greetings. Could someone please e-mail or post the address of an FAQ or similar FTP archive site (should there be one!). Thank you in advance! Frank Derrigo (derrigfj@logic.camp.clarkson.edu) Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu!wb9omc From: wb9omc@dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu (Duane P Mantick) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Mach6 spy plane Keywords: spy ufo plane Message-ID: Date: 20 Apr 92 17:09:48 GMT References: <204844@unix.cis.pitt.edu> <1992Apr13.153114.18290@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> <1992Apr15.200300.23941@awdprime.austin.ibm.com> Sender: news@noose.ecn.purdue.edu (USENET news) Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network Lines: 17 jlpicard@woofer.austin.ibm.com (Craig Becker) writes: >... >[talk of the SR 71 Blackbird deleted] >... >> (It is also, in my opinion, the most beautiful aircraft ever made, a >> streamlined work of art). >Yes, I agree. I was massively PO'ed when the government decided >they were "obsolete". I think they should have kept them flying >as a matter of national pride. >Craig Just wait, you ain't seen nuthin' yet...... Duane Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!balrog!ctron.com!kbhatt From: kbhatt@ctron.com (Kulbhushan Bhatt) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Near Washington NJ Message-ID: <3534@balrog.ctron.com> Date: 20 Apr 92 20:51:51 GMT Sender: news@balrog.ctron.com Lines: 2 Nntp-Posting-Host: giants To: l228 ho........ Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!news From: STONE@Zeus.unomaha.edu (Travis R. Stone) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Hooper Correction Message-ID: <1992Apr20.211120.756@news.unomaha.edu> Date: 20 Apr 92 21:11:20 GMT Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server) Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha Lines: 9 X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.11 If I'm not mistaken, the fellow you were referring to was Dr. HOPPITY Hooper, wasn't it?...A short little fellow with a sickly green complexion, used to have an associate named "Uncle Waldo"?.... T.R. Stone University of Nebraska-Omaha Home of the Toughest Organic Chemistry Instructors in the Galaxy Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!raven.alaska.edu!acad2.alaska.edu!asljl From: asljl@acad2.alaska.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: re: Skeptisim answered by Lady Rhavyn Message-ID: <1992Apr20.132058.1@acad2.alaska.edu> Date: 20 Apr 92 17:20:58 GMT Sender: news@raven.alaska.edu (USENET News System) Organization: University of Alaska Lines: 19 Nntp-Posting-Host: acad2.alaska.edu Yes we have created Icons and uniforms, And we did leave peices out. we left them out because if we had put the entire 153 page note book on tothe system i think people would be more than a little annoyed. We also left peices of this large puzzle out because we don't want to have the idea stolen, from what we can tell it will work. We have a talked to numerous people in M.I.T and else where, and from what we have been sneding them it will work but the pronblem is that we don't have the financing yet to build it and discover whether we'll blow a hole the size of the arizona crater in it ( For give me if my geographical location is incorret) the earth that is or put a ship into space. if you give me your U.s mail address I'll send you information that has not been put on the vax system Signed Lady Rhavyn. The requests for us mail system is not for profit/junkmail or anyother type of stuff you get in the mail. It's strictly for sending information that would allow you to see more of the picture that has already been posted by a Federation Member. Thankyou. Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!news From: STONE@Zeus.unomaha.edu (Travis R. Stone) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: His Majesty, King Looney I..Gary Stollman Message-ID: <1992Apr20.214532.1068@news.unomaha.edu> Date: 20 Apr 92 21:45:32 GMT Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server) Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha Lines: 34 X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.11 After reading his best-selling work "Invasion" (wherein we get exactly what we pay for, i.e., NOTHING) I can only say: Call the doctor, Call the nurse--- Gary's bad, And getting WORSE. Once again, we are blessed with the twisted prose (and equally twisted psyche) of His Majesty, King Gary I, Clone Prince of Paranoia. Say, Stollman, I thought the Grays got you a long time ago; where've you been hiding? Before you start castigating me as another archetypal Philistine "unbeliever" who is either (a) "one of THEM already", or (b) a nearsighted disbeliever who will "rue the day" when they replace me with a clone, I'd like to ask you a serious sort of question, if I may: If the little green men from Zeta Reticuli wanted you out of the way, why didn't they nail you when you were out cold as a foundered flounder in the hospital after your accident? Don't give me any bilge about how they must have been afraid of getting "caught in the act" by "genuine hospital personnel" either, because it won't wash---any group of people who would serve a sick person Hospital Jello would be too insensitive to care about him (or her) being scragged by a gang of extraterrestrial Xerox representatives. Well? T.R. Stone University of Nebraska-Omaha Home of the Toughest Organic Chemistry Instructors in the Galaxy (Both the REAL ones AND their clones.) Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!ames!bionet!raven.alaska.edu!acad2.alaska.edu!asljl From: asljl@acad2.alaska.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space Subject: RE: EVERYONE Message-ID: <1992Apr20.134252.1@acad2.alaska.edu> Date: 20 Apr 92 17:42:52 GMT Sender: news@raven.alaska.edu (USENET News System) Organization: University of Alaska Lines: 11 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5373 sci.space:29195 Nntp-Posting-Host: acad2.alaska.edu My internet address is this....... ASLJL@Acad2.alaska.edu Try sending all your questions about the federation to me personally I will try to answer them as quickly as I can. thank you Signed Lady Rhavyn Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!ames!bionet!raven.alaska.edu!acad2.alaska.edu!asljl From: asljl@acad2.alaska.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space Subject: ANSWER TO THIS ADDRESS FOR FEDERATION INfO Message-ID: <1992Apr20.134723.1@acad2.alaska.edu> Date: 20 Apr 92 17:47:23 GMT Sender: news@raven.alaska.edu (USENET News System) Organization: University of Alaska Lines: 9 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5374 sci.space:29197 Nntp-Posting-Host: acad2.alaska.edu THis is my address for all of you who have questions about the federation. MY internet address Is this Please try to use this and I will do the best I can to answer all of you. ASLJL@ACAD2.ALASKA.EDU Good luck to you all. Lady Rhavyn Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!raven.alaska.edu!acad2.alaska.edu!asljl From: asljl@acad2.alaska.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: re: Lady Rhavyn answers Skeptics Message-ID: <1992Apr20.133150.1@acad2.alaska.edu> Date: 20 Apr 92 17:31:50 GMT Sender: news@raven.alaska.edu (USENET News System) Organization: University of Alaska Lines: 18 Nntp-Posting-Host: acad2.alaska.edu Thank you for your reality check. I think you are corret. at this time we don't have blue prints to the gagdets, we are working on it things are not eays to get things we need to do such reasearch up in alaska so let me see. The best you could do at the momenbt is to send me your us. mail address if you read the other message just posted by me today you would know that I am not asking for money or to add you to annoyong mail lists strictly to have your address TO send you info with held from the information I posted. because the real onew is 153 pages long. I give you my word people. I am not telling to anythin that the head of this group has not told me I am trying to find intereted parties and give them all the info I can provide. We ould like to see this Project up and running in about 3 to five years. Thank you for your time.... Signed Lady Rhavyn,Recruitment Dept Head, For the Federation. Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!ames!bionet!raven.alaska.edu!acad2.alaska.edu!asljl From: asljl@acad2.alaska.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space Subject: TO NATE AND BEN FROM LADY RHAVYN Message-ID: <1992Apr20.140206.1@acad2.alaska.edu> Date: 20 Apr 92 18:02:06 GMT Sender: news@raven.alaska.edu (USENET News System) Organization: University of Alaska Lines: 17 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5376 sci.space:29198 Nntp-Posting-Host: acad2.alaska.edu To Ben, I am glad that you asked that. so far there has been no questions from the government. Aparremntly from what I can tell they think we're just a bunch a collge students goofing arounbd. I hope thats what they think anyway. TO Nate. I am in alaska. I posted my internet address. If you would like you could send me your us mail and we could work on some more form there. THeres a lot that was kept out of the inoformation I posted earlier. I am sure all of you know why, Uncle sam would be more than a little interteseted if we shoewed you all what we think this thing could do something to the affect of giant laser comes to mine. thank you for your questions. Signed Lady Rhavyn Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!ames!bionet!raven.alaska.edu!acad2.alaska.edu!asljl From: asljl@acad2.alaska.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space Subject: aleins have not visited federationers Message-ID: <1992Apr20.140529.1@acad2.alaska.edu> Date: 20 Apr 92 18:05:29 GMT Sender: news@raven.alaska.edu (USENET News System) Organization: University of Alaska Lines: 6 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5377 sci.space:29199 Nntp-Posting-Host: acad2.alaska.edu oh and no We have had no communications from aliens. If we did, We haven't noticed. unless you call suddenly being able to manifest thins we need to get this thing operational help from the beings wjo ever they are....... \ Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!wupost!uunet!kbsw1!chris From: chris@kbsw1 (Chris Kostanick 806 1044) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space Subject: Re: Federation Answers All Your Questions Message-ID: <1992Apr20.172140.6816@kbsw1> Date: 20 Apr 92 17:21:40 GMT References: <1992Apr17.123039.1@acad2.alaska.edu> Reply-To: chris@kbsw3.UUCP (Chris Kostanick 806 1044) Organization: Kentek Information Systems Lines: 13 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5378 sci.space:29206 Hi friends, Art Fnorger here at Art Fnorger's Warehouse Of Spacedrives! We're overloaded again and we've got to make more room! We got all kinds of drives folks, including some so advanced we're not even allowed to THINK about them! Just look at this little beauty, it uses photon pressure, and all you need to provide is 1 billion amps to get 2 pounds of thrust! Now that's power! On a budget? Try this one. All you need is a well three feet in diameter! Put the explosives at the bottom, put the sheet metal over them and then sit in the lawn chair! You'll be in orbit in no time! Remember friends we're open 9 to 9 seven days a week all major credit cards accepted! Drive, fly or walk, but get here today! Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!munnari.oz.au!news.hawaii.edu!mars!betelgeuse!pleiades!shatarr!dar From: dar@shatarr.pleiades.MIL (Dwayne Ashtar-Ra) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Pleiades: Message to Terra Message-ID: <4173696d6f76@pleiades> Date: 19 Apr 92 13:25:00 GMT Organization: Pleiadian Central Command Lines: 40 Behold, Terrans. This message comes direct from a Pleiadian collective consciousness which you may refer to as "The Great Dwayne". Verily there has been much discourse about the Pleiadians which has caused the usual Terran disharmony and sadness. There has been much talk of what you call "channellers" and of "First Cause" and other things that have no more meaning than what you call "meteors" that flare gaudily and burn themselves out. Behold that we Pleiadians have infiltrated your flimsy electro-magnetic communication structures, which you in your arrogance have built using blasphemous mechanical devices which orbit in the very space about your sphere, so that we may bring our message without adulteration. It has been necessary to resort to technological measures as we have found your Terran sphere to be so cloaked in greed and hatred that our normal telepathic methods have failed. Look to your souls, Terrans. Clear what you call your "minds" of preconception and meditate on what follows. That portion of our population which corresponds to what you would call "females" have discovered that certain of your black male athletes have a particular "physical prowess". They have insisted that we make contact with your puny sphere so that they may "make contact" in their own special way, before all the black males succumb to the wasting disease called "HELPS" which you in your foolishness have inflicted upon your insignificant selves. They have been what you would call "holding out" to force us to comply. This has caused disharmony on our sphere, which must be purged in a socially acceptable way, which usually involves what you call "thermo-nuclear explosives". Which brings us to the real reason for our impending visit. Look to your souls, Terrans. Until we arrive, we request you to ponder the following: do you feel lucky? Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!wupost!uunet!munnari.oz.au!mips!thunk!bluenote!gas From: gas@bluenote.ul.com (Gary Stollman) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Help they are after me Message-ID: <116165164143141163145@bluenote> Date: 19 Apr 92 22:15:05 GMT Lines: 11 Help I don;t know wher eto go I have just signed on after many months and these are all these notes supposedly written by me. some of them obvious forgerys None of them were written by me. I have reason to believe they were written by my mom who is out to get me (my fake mom not my real one)Please do not believe any notes written by me. Gotta get out of here before they find out I am signed on. Gary Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!warwick!mrccrc!crc.ac.uk!sgamble From: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: JACQUES VALLEE LECTURES IN UK Message-ID: <1992Apr21.164310.2362@crc.ac.uk> Date: 21 Apr 92 16:43:10 GMT Sender: news@crc.ac.uk Reply-To: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) Organization: MRC Human Genome Resource Centre Lines: 25 Nntp-Posting-Host: tin World famous UFOlogist Jacques Vallee is in the UK on a lecture tour & promoting the UK release of his new book (Revelations). This is the final book in a triology, the others are Dimensions and Confrontations. I know of two dates/venues where he will be speaking. (Possibly information on these and other dates is on UFOcall [0898 12 1886], I have not checked) On Saturday 25th April he is speaking at a half day conference organised by the Independent UFO Network at UMIST. I think the cost is 8pounds 50 and start time 11am. On Friday 24th April he is speaking at the Kensington Central Library, Campden Hill Road, London, W8, starting at 6:30 pm. The cost is 4 pounds 50p. Campden Hill Road is almost opposite Kensington High Street station, and the library about two minutes walk. For further information contact BUFORA on 0582 763218. Steve. -- (Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!) Steve Gamble, Computing Services, Clinical Research Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK. Phone: 081 869 3293 JANET: s.gamble@uk.ac.crc INTERNET: s.gamble@crc.ac.uk Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!decwrl!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!carasso From: carasso@netcom.com (RDC) Newsgroups: talk.bizarre,alt.alien.visitors,soc.rights.alien Subject: UFO EXPO WEST MAY 9th & 10th Message-ID: Date: 21 Apr 92 05:28:46 GMT Followup-To: talk.bizarre,misc.test,rec.arts.startrek.misc Organization: PTA BOARD COUNCIL OF THE GREATER UNITED STATES Lines: 24 Xref: ns-mx talk.bizarre:55911 alt.alien.visitors:5382 UFO EXPO WEST MAY 9TH &10TH, 1992 LAX HYATT HOTEL "THIS YEAR'S EXPO PROMISES TO CONTAIN A LOT OF VERY EXCITING AND UNIQUE PRESENTATIONS BY SOME OF THE PIONERS OF THE UFO FIELD. THE UFO PHENOMENA HAS BEEN OF PARTICULARLY IMPORTANTANCE IN THE LAST DECADE OF THE 20TH CENTURY BECAUSE IT MAY BE VIEWED AS HUMANKIND'S WAKE UP CALL." JAMES ARAMANT, PRODUCER YES! I WANT TO SEE UFO AT MY DOOR! SEND ME O A SUBSCRIPTION FOR $21 O A SAMPLE ISSUE FOR $3.95 + 1.5S&H O A FLYER WITH INFORMATION ABOUT BACK ISSUES MAKE CHECK PAYABLE TO UFO, AND SEND TO: P.O. BOX 1053, SUNLAND, CA 91041 FOR INFORMATION CALL (818) 951-1250 -- Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!bluemoon!garys From: garys@bluemoon.rn.com (Gary Stollman) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: His Majesty, King Looney I..Gary Stollman Message-ID: Date: 21 Apr 92 11:00:27 GMT References: <1992Apr20.214532.1068@news.unomaha.edu> Sender: bbs@bluemoon.rn.com (BBS Login) Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024]) Lines: 28 STONE@Zeus.unomaha.edu (Travis R. Stone) writes: > > If the little green men from Zeta Reticuli wanted you out of the > way, why didn't they nail you when you were out cold as a foundered > flounder in the hospital after your accident? Don't give me any > bilge about how they must have been afraid of getting "caught in > the act" by "genuine hospital personnel" either, because it won't > wash---any group of people who would serve a sick person Hospital > Jello would be too insensitive to care about him (or her) being > scragged by a gang of extraterrestrial Xerox representatives. > > Well? > > T.R. Stone > University of Nebraska-Omaha > Home of the Toughest Organic Chemistry Instructors in the Galaxy > (Both the REAL ones AND their clones.) > ***** One of my friends is an organic chemistry PHD at Georgia Tech... I guess I'm just lucky?? Gary This is from garys@bluemoon.rn.com who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!news.Brown.EDU!noc.near.net!mars.caps.maine.edu!maine.maine.edu!io10081 From: IO10081@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (The Xanadian) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: re: Skeptisim answered by Lady Rhavyn Message-ID: <92112.150513IO10081@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> Date: 21 Apr 92 19:05:13 GMT References: <1992Apr20.132058.1@acad2.alaska.edu> Organization: University of Maine System Lines: 2 I would, but I'm afraid I *still* cannot email you... Better get on your postmaster's butt... :) Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!news.Brown.EDU!noc.near.net!mars.caps.maine.edu!maine.maine.edu!io10081 From: IO10081@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (The Xanadian) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Pleiades: Message to Terra Message-ID: <92112.151258IO10081@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> Date: 21 Apr 92 19:12:58 GMT References: <4173696d6f76@pleiades> Organization: University of Maine System Lines: 2 Ah ...someone knows how to use a mailing-daemon to post to NetNews... joy of joys ... *sigh* Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!sunic2!sunic!kth.se!mathias From: mathias@stacken.kth.se (Mathias Bage) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: His Majesty, King Looney I..Gary Stollman Message-ID: <1992Apr21.223748.27795@kth.se> Date: 21 Apr 92 22:37:48 GMT Sender: usenet@kth.se (Usenet) Organization: Stacken Computer Club, Stockholm, Sweden Lines: 5 Nntp-Posting-Host: alex.stacken.kth.se In Swedish, the word "stolle" means "someone who's crazy; an idiot; a looney". -Mathias Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!spool.mu.edu!olivea!sgigate!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Anti-Gravity ? Message-ID: <1992Apr22.043311.17714@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: 22 Apr 92 04:33:11 GMT Sender: news@odin.corp.sgi.com (Net News) Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. Lines: 12 Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com Hello Anybody; This might be the wrong area to post such a question,but it seems to be the only place to ask such a question.Does anyone have any information on anti-gravity propulsion systems of any type i.e.(Biefield/Brown,Searle,Sandy Kidd,Scott Strachan,Victor Schauberger,etc.)? If not could you point me in the right direction. I've been doing research for a few years now now & have become quite interested in such technology.By the way a interesting book on the said subject is "Ether Technology" 'A rational approach to gravity control' Author:Rho Sigma.This is quite an interesting group we have here. Keep up the out of the ordinary work. Rod Beckwith A.K.A (Mr. Slugo) -- Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ rodb@corp.sgi.com |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance, Datacom Corp I/S |but the illusion of knowledge." |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!wupost!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!barry From: barry@netcom.com (Kenn Barry) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <8s6j4pc.barry@netcom.com> Date: 22 Apr 92 07:01:01 GMT References: Organization: QQQCLC Lines: 19 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5388 alt.conspiracy:14342 sci.skeptic:22877 alt.paranormal:4817 In article sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes: > Before going into the clinical material, it may be useful to > recall the salient elements of Capgras syndrome. It has been > found in schizophrenia and, infrequently, by itself or in > affective psychoses. It has been described as a rare, colorful > syndrome in which the patient believes that a person, usually > closely related to him, has been replaced by an exact double.... > in all the cases I have studied, perception remained unimpaired, > memory was intact, and there was no disorder of attention or > concentration or any clouding of consciousness. In none of my > patients was there any perceptible diminution of intellectual > grasp.... Interesting; I'd never heard of Capgras syndrome before. At the risk of revealing my ignorance, why is a condition that involves no disorientation grouped with schizophrenia? The description sounds like pretty classic paranoia to me. Kayembee Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr.columbus.oh.us!bluemoon!garys From: garys@bluemoon.rn.com (Gary Stollman) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Help they are after me Message-ID: Date: 22 Apr 92 05:53:58 GMT References: <116165164143141163145@bluenote> Sender: bbs@bluemoon.rn.com (BBS Login) Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024]) Lines: 20 gas@bluenote.ul.com (Gary Stollman) writes: > Help I don;t know wher eto go > > I have just signed on after many months and these are all these > notes supposedly written by me. some of them obvious forgerys > > None of them were written by me. I have reason to believe they were written b > by me. > > Gotta get out of here before they find out I am signed on. > > Gary ***** Kinda makes you wonder, huh?? This is from garys@bluemoon.rn.com who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: Date: 22 Apr 92 13:50:42 GMT References: <8s6j4pc.barry@netcom.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 70 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5390 alt.conspiracy:14355 sci.skeptic:22885 alt.paranormal:4818 In article <8s6j4pc.barry@netcom.com> barry@netcom.com (Kenn Barry) writes: > > Interesting; I'd never heard of Capgras syndrome before. >At the risk of revealing my ignorance, why is a condition that >involves no disorientation grouped with schizophrenia? The >description sounds like pretty classic paranoia to me. I re-post my earlier information. It's really all I have on the subject. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Path: mork!sheaffer Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 14:29:27 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) I sent a copy of some of Gary Stollman's postings to a friend who is knowledgeable about such things. He replies, "I really enjoyed the Stollman material. When Horowitz said, "Fight Back!" I don't think he meant with toy guns. He is a prize catch. The presence of Capgras' syndrome makes him a rara avis. Genital mutilation is a familiar theme in the literature on psychosis... By way of explanation, he included the following: "The Capgras Syndrome and its Psychopathology" by B. Frank Vogel, M.D. (Am J Psychiatry 131:8, August 1974): ABSTRACT: Five case reports indicate that the Capgras syndrome, a condition in which the patient believes that a person closely related to him is actually an impostor, is far less rare than has been commonly accepted. The author discusses the psychodynamics, suggests that the syndrome itself is a massive defense system against disintegrative intrapsychic conflicts, and examines the clear-cut ego defense mechanisms employed. TEXT: Since it was first described in 1923, the Capgras syndrome has been accorded unusual respect and treatment because of its supposed rarity. From time to time, single cases have been reported as if each were a rara avis.... Before going into the clinical material, it may be useful to recall the salient elements of Capgras syndrome. It has been found in schizophrenia and, infrequently, by itself or in affective psychoses. It has been described as a rare, colorful syndrome in which the patient believes that a person, usually closely related to him, has been replaced by an exact double.... in all the cases I have studied, perception remained unimpaired, memory was intact, and there was no disorder of attention or concentration or any clouding of consciousness. In none of my patients was there any perceptible diminution of intellectual grasp.... So you see, Gary is a *very special* individual, and we should listen to him with the kind of respect that such a person deserves! -- -- Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! "In the 1970's the world will undergo famines - hundreds of millions of people are going to starve to death in spite of any crash programs embarked upon now ... in 1985, when it is calculated [under the most optimistic scenario] that the major die-back will be over, ..." Dr. Paul Ehrlich, "The Population Bomb," 1968 Path: ns-mx!uunet!centerline!noc.near.net!newshost.cc.williams.edu!vax.cc.williams.edu!92dms From: 92dms@vax.cc.williams.edu (Bat Rastard) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <22APR199213101500@vax.cc.williams.edu> Date: 22 Apr 92 17:10:00 GMT References: <8s6j4pc.barry@netcom.com> Sender: usenet@williams.edu (USENET News Administrator) Organization: Williams College Center for Computing Lines: 12 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5391 alt.conspiracy:14364 sci.skeptic:22891 alt.paranormal:4820 News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1 In article <8s6j4pc.barry@netcom.com>, barry@netcom.com (Kenn Barry) writes... > > Interesting; I'd never heard of Capgras syndrome before. >At the risk of revealing my ignorance, why is a condition that >involves no disorientation grouped with schizophrenia? The >description sounds like pretty classic paranoia to me. > > Kayembee Isn't paranoia itself a subclass of schizophrenia? Dan Sissman "Why pay retail prices for slaughter? 92dms@vax.cc.williams.edu We can do it for you wholesale!" Williams College -H. Illin, Esq. Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!darwin.sura.net!udel!sbcs.sunysb.edu!csws17.ic.sunysb.edu!dtiberio From: dtiberio@csws17.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Help they are after me Message-ID: <1992Apr22.194030.19914@sbcs.sunysb.edu> Date: 22 Apr 92 19:40:30 GMT References: <116165164143141163145@bluenote> Sender: usenet@sbcs.sunysb.edu (Usenet poster) Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook Lines: 33 Nntp-Posting-Host: csws17.ic.sunysb.edu In article greys@bluemoon.rn.com (Gary Stollman) writes: >grays@bluenote.ul.com (Gary Coleman) writes: > >> Help I don;t know wher eto go >> >> I have just signed on after many moths and these are all these >> notes supposedly written by me. some of them obvious for greys >> >> None of them were read by me. I have raisins that believe they were written b >> by me. >> >> Gotta get out of here before they find out I am signed off. >> >> Arnold > >***** >Kinda makes me wander, huh?? > > This is from > garys@bluemoon.rn.com >who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature you yutz I don't understand why you are calling the older posts forgeries. Could you please explain for us? Thanks. -- // David Tiberio SUNY Stony Brook 2-3662 AMIGA DDD-MEN // Hi! I am a .sig phage. I copy myself into your .sig and replicate! \X/ Liverpool, New York flames to suggestions@cbmvax.commodore.com Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!barry From: barry@netcom.com (Kenn Barry) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <0-7jp1r.barry@netcom.com> Date: 22 Apr 92 20:21:15 GMT References: <8s6j4pc.barry@netcom.com> <22APR199213101500@vax.cc.williams.edu> Organization: QQQCLC Lines: 23 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5393 alt.conspiracy:14367 sci.skeptic:22901 alt.paranormal:4821 In article <22APR199213101500@vax.cc.williams.edu> 92dms@vax.cc.williams.edu (Bat Rastard) writes: >In article <8s6j4pc.barry@netcom.com>, barry@netcom.com (Kenn Barry) writes... >> Interesting; I'd never heard of Capgras syndrome before. >>At the risk of revealing my ignorance, why is a condition that >>involves no disorientation grouped with schizophrenia? The >>description sounds like pretty classic paranoia to me. >> >Isn't paranoia itself a subclass of schizophrenia? Nope. There's "paranoia", and there's "paranoid schizophrenia", or at least that's the terminology I grew up with. Paranoid schizophrenia is characterized by classic schizophrenic symptoms (e.g., hearing voices), while paranoia is a more purely ideational disorder. The true paranoid believes in vast conspiracies, and may engage in antisocial behavior, but suffers from no hallucinations or other sensory distortion. True paranoia is considered rare, probably because you have to be violent and dangerous before you get to count it as an illness. Speaking for myself, I've found paranoia a quite common condition - just look at your average religious or political extremist. But unless they are violent, we don't lock 'em up (thank goodness!). Kayembee Path: ns-mx!uunet!wrs!davidj From: davidj@wrs.com (David Jones) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Anti-Gravity ? Message-ID: Date: 22 Apr 92 21:36:49 GMT Sender: usenet@wrs.com (News Manager) Organization: Wind River Systems, Inc. Lines: 36 Nntp-Posting-Host: erra.wrs.com Rod Beckwith writes: > Does anyone have any information on anti-gravity propulsion systems of any type Yes. Borderland Sciences has a lot of info. So does the International Tesla Society in Colorado Springs. I've got a personal library of about a hundred books and monographs on this subject. Also, the U. S. Government has been testing this stuff for over 20 years. Have you seen "The Lazar Tape"? Stanford Research Institute (now SRI International) did ``ion pro- pulsion'' testing similar to what Rho Sigma describes, back in the `70's. It needed an umbilical cord large enough to juice it to about 5 or 6 mil- lion volts DC to levitate a 6 foot disk about 3 feet off the floor. Apparently, getting something to levitate, as it were, is not too tough (the principle is based on a giant capacitor and/or rotating magnetic fileds). The REAL issue is, what on-board power supply can safely gen- erate the continuous amount of high voltage necessary to keep it up? I wonder if this has anything to do with the fact that many people have heard what sounded like 6 diesel locomotives going uphill emanating from those large (supposedly extraterrestrial) triangular UFOs over Belgium and the eastern U.S.? I recently spoke with a world-class astronomer former Sky and Telescope editor) that used to have a radio talk show. About 2 years ago, he had this professor of electrical engineering from Penn State U. in New Kens- ington on that pulled a saucer shaped anti-gravity device out of a suitcase and which continued to levitate for the three hours of the radio program. Apparently, he has written some stuff for the IEEE Journal on this before. It based upon Maxwell's equations, slightly altered. His name is H. Franz (I think). Anyone know anyone at Penn State in New Kens- ington to see if there is a Franz in the EE Dept there? ------------------- David W. Jones davidj@wrs.com OR uunet!wrs!davidj ------------------- Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!news.bbn.com!ingria From: ingria@bbn.com (Bob Ingria) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: Date: 22 Apr 92 22:01:44 GMT References: <8s6j4pc.barry@netcom.com> <22APR199213101500@vax.cc.williams.edu> <0-7jp1r.barry@netcom.com> Reply-To: ingria@BBN.COM Lines: 49 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5395 alt.conspiracy:14372 sci.skeptic:22903 alt.paranormal:4822 NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com In-reply-to: barry@netcom.com's message of 22 Apr 92 20:21:15 GMT In article <0-7jp1r.barry@netcom.com> barry@netcom.com (Kenn Barry) writes: In article <22APR199213101500@vax.cc.williams.edu> 92dms@vax.cc.williams.edu (Bat Rastard) writes: >In article <8s6j4pc.barry@netcom.com>, barry@netcom.com (Kenn Barry) writes... >Isn't paranoia itself a subclass of schizophrenia? Nope. There's "paranoia", and there's "paranoid schizophrenia", or at least that's the terminology I grew up with. Paranoid schizophrenia is characterized by classic schizophrenic symptoms (e.g., hearing voices), while paranoia is a more purely ideational disorder. The true paranoid believes in vast conspiracies, and may engage in antisocial behavior, but suffers from no hallucinations or other sensory distortion. There is also the dual of paranoia, erotomania. This is the delusionary belief that there is a conspiracy to do good things for you, or that some powerful figure is in love with you (secretly, of course) and manipulating affairs behind the scenes to help you. The guy on Saturday Night Live (John Lovitz?) who used to do the routine that ended with ``...yeah, and my wife, Morgan Fairchild'' would have been an example of this if he really believed his tall tale. True paranoia is considered rare, probably because you have to be violent and dangerous before you get to count it as an illness. Speaking for myself, I've found paranoia a quite common condition - just look at your average religious or political extremist. But unless they are violent, we don't lock 'em up (thank goodness!). Here things get blurry. It's been more that 15 years since I read the old APA handbook discussion on paranoia and other psychoses, but if I remember correctly, the idea at the time was every psychotic goes through a moment of ``psychotic insight''. (Presumably this need not be true for those psychoses now diagnosed as arganic.) This is the moment at which everything falls into place: the paranoid sees that all his problems are due to the fact that the commies are fluoridating the water. And once this insight occurs, nothing will shake it. It's like the moment at which an ordinary person forms a hypothesis, except that the very fact of forming the hypothesis is its own confirmation. I think that what we loosely call ``paranoia'' is not quite of the same depth, and that people who are ``paranoid'' are more so because of ignorance (see, e.g., the 666 in the universal bar code of fundamentalist Christians and Black Muslims) or laziness (i.e. the conspiracy theory explains things so neatly that the believer just doesn't want to give it up; see, e.g., JFK assassination buffs who won't accept any criticism of their favorite theory/author). Also, clinical paranoia, like all psychoses, would be crippling in a way that what we commonly call paranoia is not. -30- Bob Path: ns-mx!uunet!bonnie.concordia.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!bison!draco!sys6626!inqmind!celeste From: celeste@inqmind.bison.mb.ca (Celeste) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: New User Message-ID: Date: 22 Apr 92 07:41:15 GMT Organization: The Inquiring Mind 1 204 488-1607 Lines: 8 So, there's another Celeste on this board - confusing, isn't it. Well Celeste pryma, tell me about yourself? It's interesting to find another user that shares my first name! Post me! Later! -Celeste S. celeste@inqmind.bison.mb.ca The Inquiring Mind BBS, Winnipeg, Manitoba 204 488-1607 Path: ns-mx!uunet!polari!stephsf.com!wengland From: wengland@stephsf.com (Bill England) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Mach6 spy plane Keywords: spy ufo plane Message-ID: <1992Apr22.141443.19115@stephsf.com> Date: 22 Apr 92 21:14:42 GMT References: <1992Apr13.153114.18290@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> <1992Apr14.173456.1052@tellab5.tellabs.com> Organization: Stephen Software Systems Inc., Tacoma/Seattle, +1 800 829 1684 Lines: 35 X-Bytes: 1435 In article <1992Apr14.173456.1052@tellab5.tellabs.com> jcj@tellabs.com (jcj) writes: > >This sounds a little like "Aurora", a very black unmanned >project. Anybody hear anything more? >-- > jcj@tellabs.com Yes, people in LA have been hearing 'it' for a few months now. Apperently a large hypersonic aircraft, with a sonic discription unlike the space shuttle, has been making the buildings shake. (Lets see too big for a fighter, Not a Shuttle, Certainly not the Concord. Hmm Aliens ?? Yea, Yea, Thats the ticket ... :-) ) Other than that there have been several reports of 'large meteors' flying through the sky over Oregon. The space shuttle recently left a similar type of track, over OR, a few months ago. (I'm not claiming these are not meteors but, since when do they have a schedule :-) ??? ) (Pop. Sci: did an article about a possible Aurora project a few months ago.) Anyway the Blackbird is obsolete. I'm glad they retired it (and replaced it) and am impressed by those who built and fly them. Now I suppose that I should shut up about it. :-) -- +- Bill England, wengland@stephsf.COM -----------------------------------+ | * * H -> He +24MeV | | * * * ... Oooo, we're having so much fun making itty bitty suns * | |__ * * ___________________________________________________________________| Path: ns-mx!uunet!olivea!sgigate!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Great M.U.F.O.N. Article Message-ID: <1992Apr23.060221.19360@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: 23 Apr 92 06:02:21 GMT Sender: news@odin.corp.sgi.com (Net News) Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. Lines: 14 Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com Hello Anybody; For anyone interested ,the April 92' issue of the M.U.F.O.N. UFO Journel #288 has an excellant article written by Anne Macfie: Entitled "Return to Roswell"For those of you that have been following the Roswell case with great interest,this is a real barn burner. Without going into great detail,the author interviews the mortician of Roswell at the time of the alledged incident. Who happened to be in the right place in the right time to witness some very interesting activities at the ARMY AIRBASE hospital with a very tall irrate (RED_HEADED) foul mouthed ARMY officer,does this characte r sound very familiar?I don't want to ruin the rest of this most important peace of journalism for you,so I'll leave it up to your curiosity to get the rest of the story & comment accordingly. I say if it walks like a duck,swims like a duck,quacks like a duck,IT SURE AS HELL AIN'T NO DAMN WEATHER BALLOON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THANKS, Rod Beckwith A.K.A. (Mr. Slugo) -- Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ rodb@corp.sgi.com |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance, Datacom Corp I/S |but the illusion of knowledge." |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!wupost!psuvax1!psuvm!lmuacad!cgriff From: CGRIFF@LMUACAD.BITNET (Mr. Craig Griffith) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Mach6 spy plane Message-ID: <92113.233152CGRIFF@LMUACAD.BITNET> Date: 23 Apr 92 06:31:52 GMT References: <1992Apr13.153114.18290@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> <1992Apr14.173456.1052@tellab5.tellabs.com> <1992Apr22.141443.19115@stephsf.com> Organization: LOYOLA MARYMOUNT UNIV - CENTER FOR ACADEMIC COMPUTING Lines: 3 Saw a small report (and interesting video ) on the Aurora on the Channel 9 news yesterday.. very small. Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!mcsun!sun4nl!sara5!hasara11!a410jacq From: A410JACQ@HASARA11.BITNET (Jacqueline Cote) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: JACQUES VALLEE LECTURES IN UK Message-ID: <92113.092753A410JACQ@HASARA11.BITNET> Date: 24 Apr 92 17:52:12 GMT References: <1992Apr21.164310.2362@crc.ac.uk> Organization: SARA - Stichting Academisch Rekencentrum Amsterdam Lines: 8 Hmmm hadn't Vallee given up his belief in little green men and hadn't he gone back to Astrophysics? He still publishes in magazines like Astronomy and Astrophysics. Or are there TWO Jacques' Vallee? Jacqueline ________________________________________________________________________________ Jacqueline Cote' | Astronomical Inst., Un. of Amsterdam | Kruislaan 403, 1098 SJ Amsterdam, The Netherlands A410JACQ@HASARA11 | phone: +31 (0)20 5257479 +31 (0)38 530998 (home) a410jacq@vm1.sara.nl | telex: 10262 hef nl FAX: +31 (0)20 5257484 Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!samsung!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu!wb9omc From: wb9omc@dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu (Duane P Mantick) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Mach6 spy plane Keywords: spy ufo plane Message-ID: Date: 23 Apr 92 16:55:25 GMT References: <1992Apr13.153114.18290@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> <1992Apr14.173456.1052@tellab5.tellabs.com> <1992Apr22.141443.19115@stephsf.com> Sender: news@noose.ecn.purdue.edu (USENET news) Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network Lines: 29 wengland@stephsf.com (Bill England) writes: > Anyway the Blackbird is obsolete. I'm glad they retired it > (and replaced it) and am impressed by those who built and fly > them. Uh, how about this as a modification to your statement: "I'm glad they preserved them in museums after replacing it and am impressed..." etc. etc. Keep in mind that even though the Blackbirds are a design product of the late fifties and built in the sixties, they were a completely revolutionary aircraft in terms of powerplant design (the mating of the J58 and the Blackbirds incredible shockwave-management system is and was a stunning achievement), materials (the Titanium alloy created all sorts of unique problems that the Skunk Works overcame) and especially considering that most of the design was done with slide-rule technology! The A12/M12/YF12/SR71/GTD21 family was an absolute masterpiece of design and engineering. Moreover, it was a masterpiece of teamwork.....and THAT has always been the trademark of the Lockheed Skunk-Works. Putting together the BEST team for the job and giving them enough rope to get the job done. Anbody who wants to know more about it should read the Kelly Johnson book "More Than My Share" which tells all about his design work and philosophies. Duane Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!hri.com!noc.near.net!newshost.cc.williams.edu!vax.cc.williams.edu!92dms From: 92dms@vax.cc.williams.edu (Bat Rastard) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Crop Circles Message-ID: <23APR199212584384@vax.cc.williams.edu> Date: 23 Apr 92 16:58:00 GMT Sender: usenet@williams.edu (USENET News Administrator) Organization: Williams College Center for Computing Lines: 6 News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1 Does anyone out there have "official" instructions about how to make convincing crop circles? Dan Sissman "Why pay retail prices for slaughter? 92dms@vax.cc.williams.edu We can do it for you wholesale!" Williams College -H. Illin, Esq. Path: ns-mx!uunet!bonnie.concordia.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!bison!draco!sys6626!inqmind!celeste From: celeste@inqmind.bison.mb.ca (Celeste) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: user Message-ID: <82aoJB1w164w@inqmind.bison.mb.ca> Date: 23 Apr 92 07:38:06 GMT Organization: The Inquiring Mind 1 204 488-1607 Lines: 6 So, there's a Tesla fan I see. The Nikola gave it away. Another Tesla fan! Bonus! Have a psychotic supper, Nikola. Later! -Celeste celeste@inqmind.bison.mb.ca The Inquiring Mind BBS, Winnipeg, Manitoba 204 488-1607 Path: ns-mx!uunet!bonnie.concordia.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!bison!draco!sys6626!inqmind!celeste From: celeste@inqmind.bison.mb.ca (Celeste) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Chatting Message-ID: Date: 23 Apr 92 07:52:51 GMT Organization: The Inquiring Mind 1 204 488-1607 Lines: 5 Oh, luminous entity, are you ever available for chatting? If so, when is the best time to do so? celeste@inqmind.bison.mb.ca The Inquiring Mind BBS, Winnipeg, Manitoba 204 488-1607 Path: ns-mx!uunet!rosevax!aquarius!grante From: grante@aquarius (Grant Edwards) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <1992Apr23.193015.6114@rosevax.rosemount.com> Date: 23 Apr 92 19:30:15 GMT References: Sender: news@rosevax.rosemount.com (USENET News administrator) Organization: Rosemount, Inc. Lines: 22 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5405 alt.conspiracy:14398 sci.skeptic:22944 alt.paranormal:4833 Nntp-Posting-Host: aquarius ingria@bbn.com (Bob Ingria) writes: : In article <0-7jp1r.barry@netcom.com> barry@netcom.com (Kenn Barry) writes: : : There is also the dual of paranoia, erotomania. This is the : delusionary belief that there is a conspiracy to do good things for : you, or that some powerful figure is in love with you (secretly, of : course) and manipulating affairs behind the scenes to help you. : Sounds like most of the people on the talk shows on channel 14. It used to be the Christian Broadcasting Network, now it's called something a bit milder (the Family Channel?) but it's as inane as ever. The powerful figure that manipulates things to help them is god, and they give him credit for all sorts of stupid things. -- Grant Edwards |Yow! I'm having a BIG BANG Rosemount Inc. |THEORY!! | grante@aquarius.rosemount.com | Path: ns-mx!uunet!stanford.edu!mcnc!borg!excalibur!ingram From: ingram@excalibur.cs.unc.edu (Robert Ingram) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Summary: poor, poor gary. He needs some friends. Keywords: looney Message-ID: <11582@borg.cs.unc.edu> Date: 23 Apr 92 19:44:34 GMT References: <6594@shodha.enet.dec.com> Sender: news@cs.unc.edu Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre,misc.test,alt.megabozo.gary.s Distribution: na Organization: Unemployment Deferrments, Inc. Lines: 22 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5406 talk.bizarre:56301 In many articles stollman@Im.So.Fucking.Clever (Gary Stollman) writes: > > [deleted] > PLEASE HAVE SOME CONSIDERATION FOR THE READERS OF THIS NEWSGROUP AND POST THIS SORT OF MATERIAL TO *ALT.FORGERY* WHERE IT BELONGS. THANK YOU!!! > Gary >-- >Gary Stollman GEnie:G.STOLLMAN > Internet:garys@bluemoon.rn.com >Don't think I'm crazy cause I know twenty computer languages and ^ | post versions of "Hello, World!" in each -----robert ingram---- ingram@samba.oit.unc.edu who dont have their own innarestin disease yet Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!uw-beaver!pullen From: pullen@cs.washington.edu (Walter D. Pullen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: BEAMSHPS.GIF (385x385xB/W) Nine line drawings of Pleiadian spacecraft. Summary: Description and included uuencoded GIF file. Keywords: Pleiadians Message-ID: <1992Apr24.012722.15706@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Date: 24 Apr 92 01:27:22 GMT Sender: news@beaver.cs.washington.edu (USENET News System) Organization: University of Washington Computer Science Lines: 222 One of my more favorite UFO books is "UFO Contact from the Pleiades" by Lt. Col. Wendelle Stevens. Part of the reason is because of the wealth of information on the various spacecraft used by the Pleiadian and other similar races. Scattered throughout the book were various line drawings of these craft. I have compiled most of them together into a informational GIF image. The nine beamships included are: The three types of scout craft used by Semjase and the other Pleiadians; several other Pleiadian craft including a miniship, a remote controlled drone, and a rather large ship; and finally the beamships uses by the Lyrian, Vegan, and DAL Universe races. Each of these types was seen by Billy Meier at least once, and pictures of most of them are in various books. Along with each beamship image, is a small amount of text giving its diameter, crew size, color, and any other main identifying features. To create the image, I used the X11 bitmap(1) program to manually create each craft. Then I had the C language X interface draw the text and merge it with the bitmap, which I then converted to the GIF file. Anyway, enjoy the image; it can come in handy during a close encounter UFO sighting, so you can know in advance who it is without having to ask them after they've landed! :) ----BEGIN INCLUDED FILE CUT HERE---- begin 600 beamshps.gif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M[5-C$%(2L(@C&=&99\.W^9GA@ DY.SWZ6*D:5LYP!%=@H2I7:0[TR#A)*\JI M;%UNWO1F"H9G+[_:-=A!!S%DEST@V/IRD/H9KF<'ZPVI"VCQE0.O:V%J-Z.Z MS]O 5Y\073%:>\.8@FN9>A:&:V>?0[BN ICD_OQJO0[)7^,66)1BI4)!MRC/ MKU6,:EP;,F>LV='(EAU)7$>Y/4+X]S.U53PD&_+T?W:#20&!C",H7SE**L)JG\Y M76YY1TE:@CSGSJ,:$?6\X''066YGH72.5R?U%_H)E#WN.2G3LL&'E^7+(H=Y MS"^-11WQ3&"ZMM"A/>UKMV?O;;*"VN$VI2ENBIQ5MNK[W$FUG%(;L>Z_D[2M M'$AU-]Y).25WM1!-?>^$RSKC2VI9NC,+"7*G5 M8_."(Y51>)D8O'EIIU,&K)#6!IVU>S,P2C4<;81_?=,TVZ\^QXZS&&+^MTM^WR>KN,M;27W M_HTY;?YRA-/ M<72IO'"],/;'RX-OCV<\_A[/$.ZU+>+F+X1V+_\6),OV+U:. >7\3_[:;][: M;BP&CLHT;.DB:7& #KQTSL0L$*%:1^E $,HZ\*U"4,CDZP11, 55< 59<"<* M# [ end ----END INCLUDED FILE CUT HERE---- -|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|- | Walter D. "Cruiser1" Pullen | pullen@lynx.cs.washington.edu | -|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|- | "Who am I, What am I? As I am, I am not. But as we are, I AM. And to | - you my creation, My Perfect Love is your Perfect Freedom. And I will be - | with you forever and ever, until the End, and then forever more." - GOD | -|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|- Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!datum.nyo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!shodha.enet.dec.com!timpson From: timpson@shodha.enet.dec.com (Steve Timpson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Near Washington NJ Message-ID: <6641@shodha.enet.dec.com> Date: 22 Apr 92 13:29:36 GMT Sender: news@shodha.enet.dec.com Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 8 In article <3534@balrog.ctron.com>, kbhatt@ctron.com (Kulbhushan Bhatt) writes... > >ho........ Hey!!! Who you callin a ho! Steve Food_for_the_Greys 8^) Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!datum.nyo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!shodha.enet.dec.com!timpson From: timpson@shodha.enet.dec.com (Steve Timpson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Pleiades: Message to Terra Message-ID: <6642@shodha.enet.dec.com> Date: 22 Apr 92 13:33:10 GMT Sender: news@shodha.enet.dec.com Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 9 In article <4173696d6f76@pleiades>, dar@shatarr.pleiades.MIL (Dwayne Ashtar-Ra) writes... >Look to your souls, Terrans. Until we arrive, we request you to ponder >the following: do you feel lucky? Ya! I feel lucky... Bring it on!!!! Steve Food_for_the_Greys Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!shodha.enet.dec.com!gas@bluenote.ul.com (Gary Stollman) From: Stollman@bluenote.ul.com (Gary Stollman) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Help they are after me Message-ID: <6643@shodha.enet.dec.com> Date: 22 Apr 92 13:36:28 GMT Sender: news@shodha.enet.dec.com Organization: Tallahassee Mental Sanatorium and BBQ Lines: 40 In article <116165164143141163145@bluenote>, gas@bluenote.ul.com (Gary Stollman) writes... >Help I don;t know wher eto go > >I have just signed on after many months and these are all these >notes supposedly written by me. some of them obvious forgerys > >None of them were written by me. I have reason to believe they were written by my mom who is out to get me (my fake mom not my real one)Please do not believe any notes written >by me. > >Gotta get out of here before they find out I am signed on. > >Gary The above note is obviously a fake. The real Gary is more articulate than this. Besides the posting looks like it came from a FIDO net source. Gary does not post from a FIDO net source. Gary, Gary, Gary.... OK I am going to come clean. This is really Gary Stollman. I work for the Shop, you know "THE SHOP." I volunteered to have my self cloned as an experiment in creating legions of clones as solders to help the Reticulans in a battle against a Cylon like race from Altair. You escaped and instead of having you terminated we decided to watch you. You went insane and we have decided the experiment was a complete failure. You are a fluke of the Universe. Now Gary if you believe this I have some land in Florida for you. Sorry Gary I have been having fun at your expense. I still believe that you are unstable but that just makes your postings interesting and entertaining. Steve Food_for_the_Greys Path: ns-mx!uunet!charon.amdahl.com!amdahl!JUTS!duts!dfs30 From: dfs30@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise Solis) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Serious research Keywords: UFO research Message-ID: <07Pq02p511jU01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> Date: 24 Apr 92 17:23:07 GMT References: <1992Apr24.142809.3278@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> Sender: netnews@ccc.amdahl.com Reply-To: dfs30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise) Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA Lines: 18 In article <1992Apr24.142809.3278@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> cfkfb@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Karl Bridges) writes: > > Isn't it time that there be a new group established i.e. >alt.ufo.research for those who are seriously interested in what's going >on as a scientific/sociological phenomenon. Paranoid drug induced >fantasies are, for those interested, OK, but that's all that ever >appears here. We need less from the lunatic fringe and more from some >serious research. I agree most wholeheartedly! My kill file is getting HUGE! Denise -- ========================================================================= >>>>>>>>>>>|| Copyright (c) Denise faith Solis 1991 ||<<<<<<<<<<< >>>>>>>>>>>|| dfs30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com ||<<<<<<<<<<< ========================================================================= Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!vjmurphy From: vjmurphy@carina.unm.edu (Phred T. Platypus) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Pleiades: Message to Terra Message-ID: <+t8j=-r@lynx.unm.edu> Date: 24 Apr 92 07:15:12 GMT References: <6642@shodha.enet.dec.com> Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque Lines: 14 >In article <4173696d6f76@pleiades>, dar@shatarr.pleiades.MIL (Dwayne Ashtar-Ra) writes... > >>Look to your souls, Terrans. Until we arrive, we request you to ponder >>the following: do you feel lucky? > Where are these guys from? The planet of Clint Eastwood imitators? -- "You ask me if sex is one of the most _\_\ _/_/ Phred Platypus important things in life? Absolutely. _\_\ _/_/ Grammarian of Vengeance But the lack of it is even likelier _\_\_/_/ [ vjmurphy@carina.unm.edu ] to drive you nuts." -- Harlan Ellison _\_/ Vincent J. Murphy Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!math.fu-berlin.de!news.netmbx.de!zelator!krypta!FB2-UUCP-Mail-Server From: Andre.Eichner@f10.n2403.z2.fidonet.ORG (Andre Eichner) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: UFO meeting in Berlin Message-ID: <704034800.0@krypta.fidonet.ORG> Date: 20 Apr 92 04:29:00 GMT Sender: FB2-UUCP-Mail-Server@p2.f41.n2403.z2.fidonet.ORG Lines: 57 Hi Clark! CM>Meiner Erinnerung nach, war Armstrong Astronaut in der CM>fruehern Tagen des US Space Program. Ich habe nichts von CM>seiner Roswell-Aktivitaeten gehoert. Sind Sie sicher, dass CM>diesen Mann gutglaeubig ist? Entw. echt Astronaut od. echt CM>Roswellzeuge? Soweit ich weis, ist er nicht der Raumfahrer. Der hat wohl einen anderen Vornamen. Der Kongress war ein Super-Erfolg. Einzige Ausnahme: Dr.Fred Bell, der hatte den totalen Reinfall und hat sich dann auch nicht mehr auf die Abschlussveranstaltung getraut. Es wurde eine detailierte Information ueber das Philadelphia-Experiment gegeben. Die von Tesla und Einstein entwickelte allgemeine Feldtheorie und wie die Felder eingesetzt wurden. Ich hatte auch noch Abends auf einem Essen mit den Referenten in einem persoenlichen Gespraech, eine Menge erfahren koennen. Interessant waren die Info's zu Area 51, S4, der unterirdischen Anlagen, von wo aus die Grey-Aliens starten und landen. Es wurde auch jede Menge ueber die Duale Technologie gesprochen, und das die USA bereits ueber zahlreiche Raumschiffe mit einem Antriebssystem das dem Searl-System (Bifeld-Brown-Effekt) entspricht. Die Funktionsweise der Element-115 Reaktoren mit dem besonderen Graviton wurden ausfuehrlich erlautert. Die Militaers in USA habe die Reaktoren bereits selbst herstellen koennen und verfuegen ueber eine grosse Menge von Element-115, das sie von den Grauen bekommen haben. Zu den Entfuehrungen durch die Grey-Aliens wurde von Edit Fiore eine Hypnose an einem Berliner durchgefuehrt, wobei herauskam, das dieser mehrmals von den Grauen entfuehrt wurde. Das Raumschiff der Grauen soll dabei am Teufelsberg, vor der US-Radar-Station gelandet sein. Douglas Pue berichtete ueber die Verwicklungen der US-Regierung mit den Grauen und auch ueber die Bilderberger-Verschwoehrung. Namen wollte er nicht nennen, aber die kann man ja im MJ-12 Dokument nachlesen... Kohl ist ueberigens auch dabei! Jerry Wills zeigte 2 Gegenstaende, die er von seinen Ausserirdischen Freunden bekommen haben will (konnte ich nicht nachpruefen, ob die wirklich ausserirdisch waren...) Brian O'Leary fuehrte und Psychokinese vor, wie bei Metallen durch geistige Energie die Molekularbindung voruebergehend geschwaecht wird. Er ist in Amerika ein Astronomie und Physikprofessor. Achmed Khamas stellte eine Syrische Machine vor, die mit freier Energie aus dem Wasser angetrieben wurde und Strom erzeugt. ok. Ich hoffe du kannst den Text uebersetzen. cheers Andre --- * Origin: FidoNet-Berlin, the magic node (2:2403/10) Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!decwrl!claris!szebra!spectrx!aaron From: aaron@spectrx.saigon.com (Aaron Anderer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Mach6 spy plane Keywords: spy ufo plane Message-ID: Date: 23 Apr 92 14:21:23 GMT References: <1992Apr22.141443.19115@stephsf.com> Organization: SPECTROX SYSTEMS (408)252-1005 Silicon Valley, Ca Lines: 22 wengland@stephsf.com (Bill England) writes: > In article <1992Apr14.173456.1052@tellab5.tellabs.com> jcj@tellabs.com (jcj) > > > >This sounds a little like "Aurora", a very black unmanned > >project. Anybody hear anything more? > >-- > > jcj@tellabs.com > > Yes, people in LA have been hearing 'it' for a few months now. > Apperently a large hypersonic aircraft, with a sonic discription > unlike the space shuttle, has been making the buildings shake. > (Lets see too big for a fighter, Not a Shuttle, Certainly not > the Concord. Hmm Aliens ?? Yea, Yea, Thats the ticket ... :-) ) yeah they were talking about it on the network news. They had some footage of a desert facility in New Mexico and they showed some video tape of Floating lights. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Aaron Anderer, System Operator aaron@spectrx.saigon.com SPECTROX SYSTEMS +1 408 252 1005 szebra!spectrx!aaron Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!bonnie.concordia.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!bison!draco!sys6626!gstimp From: gstimp@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Gary Stimpson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Chatting Message-ID: Date: 23 Apr 92 19:52:55 GMT References: Organization: system 6626 BBS, Winnipeg MB Lines: 10 celeste@inqmind.bison.mb.ca (Celeste) writes: > Oh, luminous entity, are you ever available for chatting? If so, when is > the best time to do so? Are you ok? ;--- (Gary Stimpson) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64 ;E-mail: gstimp@sys6626.bison.mb.ca ;system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8 Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!rutgers!micro-heart-of-gold.mit.edu!uw-beaver!ubc-cs!mprgate.mpr.ca!mprgate.mpr.ca!spani From: spani@mprgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani) Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: PENTAGON ADMITS IT HAS ALIEN VESSELS Message-ID: <1992Apr24.205532.7978@mprgate.mpr.ca> Date: 24 Apr 92 20:55:32 GMT References: <9204232336.AA10093@echidna.swdc.stratus.com> <1992Apr24.085908@IASTATE.EDU> Sender: news@mprgate.mpr.ca Followup-To: sci.skeptic, alt.alien.visitors Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada Lines: 53 Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:22977 alt.alien.visitors:5416 In article <1992Apr24.085908@IASTATE.EDU>, danwell@IASTATE.EDU (Daniel A Ashlock) writes: |> In article <9204232336.AA10093@echidna.swdc.stratus.com>, |> lpb@STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM (Len Bucuvalas) writes: [...] |> > |> > I recently heard a Radio One program in the UK that contained |> > an interview with a leading proponent of the popular "US Government has |> > aliens locked up and is experimenting with their spaceplanes" conspiracy |> > theory. However this particular individual sounded very reasonable, did |> > not make any outrageous claims, and further had some interesting facts |> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ |> > to disclose. In particular he mentioned several verifiable facts which |> > I would like some followup on: |> |> The above _is_ an outrageous claim. I conclude you wouldn't know an |> outrageous claim if it bit you in the anatomy. |> |> > Rockwell International and NASA were planning a *massive* |> > joint exhibition of space exploration this year (1991) but it was delayed |> > inexplicably until 1992. In the *official* prospectus for this exhibition, |> > one of the exhibits was clearly stated to be "an extraterrestrial space |> > craft". |> |> Right. Another non-outrageous claim? |> |> Say "good night, Gracie". |> |> Dan |> Danwell@IASTATE.EDU Actually, I beleive that the travelling space exhibit part may be true. I don't have my references with me, but I read in Timothy Good's 1991 book "Alien Liaison" about a venture that sounds the same. It was called "Cosmic Journey" and was to be a joint venture between NASA and Ringling Brothers and Barnum and Bailey International. The touring space exhibit was to include a *real* captured alien space craft and a frozen alien corpse. The venture was cancelled in 1991 or delayed. Good's references seemed reasonable, but the "military person" who was to supply to alien artifacts could have been just yanking someone's chains. I wish I had the book with me :^( Leonard. -- *********************************************************************** | Leonard E. Spani | //!?\\ | (disclaimer-p) | | spani@mprgate.mpr.ca | \\?!// | t | *********************************************************************** Path: ns-mx!uunet!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!bonnie.concordia.ca!garrot.DMI.USherb.CA!uxa.ecn.bgu.edu!cfkfb From: cfkfb@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Karl Bridges) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Serious research Summary: Isn't it time for a new group for serious UFO research Keywords: UFO research Message-ID: <1992Apr24.142809.3278@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> Date: 24 Apr 92 14:28:09 GMT Organization: Educational Computing Network Lines: 7 Isn't it time that there be a new group established i.e. alt.ufo.research for those who are seriously interested in what's going on as a scientific/sociological phenomenon. Paranoid drug induced fantasies are, for those interested, OK, but that's all that ever appears here. We need less from the lunatic fringe and more from some serious research. Path: ns-mx!uunet!munnari.oz.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!uqcspe!cs.uq.oz.au!rhys From: rhys@cs.uq.oz.au (Rhys Weatherley) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Serious research Keywords: UFO research Message-ID: <7629@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au> Date: 24 Apr 92 22:37:07 GMT References: <1992Apr24.142809.3278@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> Sender: news@cs.uq.oz.au Reply-To: rhys@cs.uq.oz.au Lines: 36 In <1992Apr24.142809.3278@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> cfkfb@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Karl Bridges) writes: > Isn't it time that there be a new group established i.e. >alt.ufo.research for those who are seriously interested in what's going >on as a scientific/sociological phenomenon. Paranoid drug induced >fantasies are, for those interested, OK, but that's all that ever >appears here. We need less from the lunatic fringe and more from some >serious research. It's a good idea. On the surface at least. But I fear that the lunatics would cross-post to it anyway. Consider: any serious UFO researcher should be aware of the Pleiadians and friends since the names crop up so much lately and then try to separate the wheat from the chaff. So our friendly neighbourhood lunatics might consider their posting their voluminous information to an alt.ufo.research group as doing the researchers a service by keeping the researchers "up to date". :-) Thus alt.ufo.research becomes a mirror of alt.alien.visitors and we are back to square one. I'm not saying this will happen, but it needs to be kept in mind. Moderation may be a good idea, with only information and discussion about serious, verifiable research activities allowed to get through the moderator. (Yes, approved postings can be forged, but moderation should help a bit). Something like comp.risks (and others) which is a mixture of informational postings and discussion. Now, who wants to be moderator? (not me :-) Cheers, Rhys. +=====================+==================================+ || Rhys Weatherley | The University of Queensland, || || rhys@cs.uq.oz.au | Australia. G'day!! || || "I'm a FAQ nut - what's your problem?" || +=====================+==================================+ Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!boulder!ucsu!cubldr.colorado.edu!crago_l From: crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: re: serious research Message-ID: <1992Apr24.151057.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> Date: 24 Apr 92 22:10:57 GMT Sender: news@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (USENET News System) Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder Lines: 65 Nntp-Posting-Host: gold.colorado.edu Karl Bridges' idea of a separate group for serious research or at least consideration of UFO stuff is a great one. Although, I daresay it would not really serve to keep the goonies off the line. Until such a group is formed, I'd like to share some thoughts and observations arrived at mainly from contact with abductees. 1. Someone asked for opinions on David Jacobs' book "Secret Lives." I think it is the best thing currently in the literatue. We've all been theorizing on the basis of little, or conflicting, or superficial, or hardware-oriented data. This book examines the data that is immediately at hand, i.e. eye- wittness accounts. It is the first book to really examine the similar experiences of a large group of abductees and try to discerne patterns inherent in the abduction experience. 2. Someone called hypnosis *bullshit*. In medicine, psychiatry and forensics it is seen as a legitimate tool by professionals with extensive clinical experience. It has been shown to be virtually the only means by which to access deeply repressed memories of abductions, where the victem was in an altered state apparently induced by the aliens. To discount the efficacy of hypnosis out of hand seems to be merely a quibble. 3. There are abductees with full or partial memories, as well as those with virtually no memories of the events. There are those who have their memories masked as *lucid dreams*, given in dream symbolism but fairly close to the actual events. There are those who have almost total amnesia -- they sense that *something happened* but they don't know what; and/or they have obvious symptoms of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder but can recollect no ordinary-life trauma to account for these severe symptoms. 4. Many persons who suspect no adbuctions whatsoever, and therefore have no conscious memories, may under hypnosis break through the masking amnesia and access buried memories. The fact of repressed subconscious memories emerging under hypnosis does not invalidate either hypnosis or the prior amnesia; it demonstrates the rigid compartmentalization of psychic contents and the efficacy of hypnosis in accessing repressed material. 5. Genuine abductees seem to exhibit attitudes consonant with the degree of their recall of previously repressed material (this does not speak to those with full spontaneous recall). Those who recall only *dreams* or *screen memories* are usually fascinated and terribly curious about the UFO/Visitor phenomenon. They will search the literature, show up at conventions, and watch UFO TV programs -- sometimes with an undertone of fear. Those who have accessed some memories, either spontaneously or under hypnosis, may become spooked and may develop complete resistance to further investigation at that point. Those who go on to access more complete subliminal memories will typically be blown completely away and their PTSD symptoms may become exacerbated. 6. Abductees who have minimul spontaneous recall may, prior to having any hypnosis, have the feeling that contact with aliens is a highly *spiritual* experience. They may feel the aliens are numinous. They may maintain a complete *love'n'light* attitude toward the whole phenomenon. When such a person has hypnosis, however, and access some of the actual memories of being abducted against their will and perhaps used in what appear to be medical experiments, the person will typically develop anger and outrage toward the aliens. Based upon some evidence in Jacobs' book, it appears the aliens may *implant* associations of numinosity and spirituality with themselves in the abductees' minds. I've got more but guess that's enough for one post. All serious, non- contentious, hopefully courteous responses will be welcome. If we all start sharing information, maybe it will simply crowd out the nuisance posters. Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ucselx!newshub.sdsu.edu!darkstar!arapaho!berggren From: berggren@arapaho.ucsc.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Pleiades: Message to Terra Message-ID: <33816@darkstar.ucsc.edu> Date: 24 Apr 92 23:38:01 GMT References: <4173696d6f76@pleiades> Sender: usenet@darkstar.ucsc.edu Organization: I'm too confused to get ORGANIZED Lines: 27 In article <4173696d6f76@pleiades>, dar@shatarr.pleiades.MIL (Dwayne Ashtar-Ra) writes: |> Behold, Terrans. |> |> This message comes direct from a Pleiadian collective consciousness |> which you may refer to as "The Great Dwayne". |> ... |> That portion of our population which corresponds to what you would call |> "females" have discovered that certain of your black male athletes have |> a particular "physical prowess". They have insisted that we make |> contact with your puny sphere so that they may "make contact" in their |> own special way, before all the black males succumb to the wasting |> disease called "HELPS" which you in your foolishness have inflicted |> upon your insignificant selves. |> |> They have been what you would call "holding out" to force us to comply. I want to volunteer to help you out. Don't let my earth-name-swedish-sounding name fool you. It is a little known fact that Swedish Earth males have great physical prowess, as you call it. And so do the the Swedish Earth females for that matter, but that's another story. Let's make contact!! We can't have them "holding out" on you, definitely. A similar thing happened in Sweden several Earth years ago. It wasn't pretty. Something about Finns, Laplanders and reindeer. It makes me shiver to think about it. I stand straight at the door, and await instructions. -The Bearded One Path: ns-mx!uunet!van-bc!ubc-cs!mprgate.mpr.ca!mprgate.mpr.ca!spani From: spani@mprgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Serious research Keywords: UFO research Message-ID: <1992Apr24.232633.9625@mprgate.mpr.ca> Date: 24 Apr 92 23:26:33 GMT References: <1992Apr24.142809.3278@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> Sender: news@mprgate.mpr.ca Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada Lines: 60 In article <1992Apr24.142809.3278@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu>, cfkfb@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Karl Bridges) writes: |> |> Isn't it time that there be a new group established i.e. |> alt.ufo.research for those who are seriously interested in what's going |> on as a scientific/sociological phenomenon. Paranoid drug induced |> fantasies are, for those interested, OK, but that's all that ever |> appears here. We need less from the lunatic fringe and more from some |> serious research. I'm not sure that creating a new group will solve the noise problem we have here on alt.alien.visitors. People see a group with a subject like UFOs and post nonsense to what they percieve as a non-sensical group. A more serious name might help, but some people will always think UFOs are National Inquirer material and nothing more. The lunatic fringe material is helpful to me in a way because it gives me access to some of the sociological effects that UFOs have. The UFO cults and "space brother" foundations are an important part of the phenomenon, but I imagine the New Age material on alt.alien.visitors could scare off any "serious" posters. Sci.skeptic *should* (IMO) be a place to discuss UFOs seriously, but the group attracts a *small* number of "armchair debunkers" who are too dogmatic to discuss the subject rationally. I don't mean to insult sci.skeptic, just to point out that they have troubles with (dogmatic) debunkers in the same way that alt.alien.visitors has troubles with (dogmatic) beleivers. Sci.skeptic is also helpful to me to understand the debunkers are also an important part of the UFO phenomenon. That being said, I *do* see a need for another group to discuss UFO research rationally and seriously, without assumptions and dogmatism. Although, alt.ufo.research sums up the ideals of the group nicely and cleanly, perhaps alt.sci.ufo.research would make better use of the existing alt.sci hierarchy and also get science into the name to further press the point. If you wanted a "real" (ie. non alt ;^) newsgroup, perhaps sci.research.ufo would be a good name (using the sci.research hierarchy). I can see opposition to this group by people claiming that sci.skeptic is sufficient, but I think that could be resonably countered. A sci. hierarchy group *might* also collect less nonsense that an alt group. Leonard. -- *********************************************************************** | Leonard E. Spani | //!?\\ | (disclaimer-p) | | spani@mprgate.mpr.ca | \\?!// | t | *********************************************************************** Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!news From: SCHLEGEL@Zeus.unomaha.edu (Mark) Newsgroups: sci.astro,alt.alien.visitors Subject: An idea how ETs could solve the source direction prob. of SETI Message-ID: <1992Apr25.004513.20341@news.unomaha.edu> Date: 25 Apr 92 00:45:13 GMT Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server) Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha Lines: 74 Xref: ns-mx sci.astro:16564 alt.alien.visitors:5422 X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.11 One of the tough problems in SETI (Search for Extra Terrestrial Intelligence) is the problem of where to point high gain radio antennas. A sensitive high gain has a relatively tight receiving beam angle within which it can detect a weak transmission, this angle depends mainly on the wavelength and antenna diameter. It occurred to me that a powerful ET civilization with effective interstellar travel could make it very easy for their transmitter to be found (I will assume that interstellar travel is possible for them). This will be based on several hopefully sound assumptions made by the ETs about the civilizations out in the Galaxy: 1). A race intelligent enough to build a high gain receiver would also be interested in radio astronomy and knowledgeable about sources of radio emissions (like pulsars, supernovae, etc) 2). While looking at pulsars these astronomers would eventually notice that pulsars emit extremely regular pulses of emission from radio upward to gamma rays. 3). This race would then study these pulsars with radio telescopes designed to sift out faint, very fast radio pulses (using fourier analysis, etc) The ETs could then set up a simple transmitter near a pulsar that would continuously transmit prime numbers (to get attention) and then a simple message that would say when deciphered: "For the real message look for a transmitter located Y light years from this pulsar transmitting at frequency Z and at height H above the galactic disk.The second transmitter sees an angle Q between this pulsar and the galactic nucleus". This is enough info to get the telescopes in the right general direction for the second message. The general idea is that the first transmitter takes advantage of the fact that various races will turn sensitive radio telescopes at pulsars on their own and then this transmitter would be detected. This first message would be simple to decipher maybe using the famous string of bits of size equal to a number that is only a factor of two primes so that the message is a picture in two dimensions (see Carl Sagen's "Cosmos" or "Contact") The second transmitter is in a region of space distant from local sources of noise (the pulsar for example) and it transmits the complex messages. Or another posibility--it tells us basic information but as far as dangerous information it would say something like, "further information about faster than light travel is being tranmitted by gravitational waves at frequency F and power spectrum P and bandwidth B. Since gravitational waves are almost impossible for a moderately advanced race to detect they would be protected from knowledge they probably shouldn't have. One last point, from a standpoint of effectiveness the ETs would want to pick an obvious pulsar with a bright supernova remnant still around it, this would call attention to the pulsar in optical telescopes. It should also be near the outer edge of the galactic disk so that the first transmitter would take in the maximum number of stars for a beam of a given width (it would point in towards the galactic center) Interestingly enough a pulsar does fit all of these criteria: the Crab Pulsar in the supernova remnant NGC 1976 also known as Messier 1 in the messier catalog. It rotates 33 times a second and has a brilliant optical nebula around it. Mark Schlegel schlegel@zeus.unomaha.edu Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!Germany.EU.net!unido!sbsvax!coli-gate.coli.uni-sb.de!uhf!midget.saar.de!boerp From: boerp@midget.saar.de (John Boerp) Newsgroups: de.soc.kultur,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Criswell (was: Review: Plan 9 From Outer Space) Message-ID: Date: 24 Apr 92 07:06:13 GMT References: <6379@unido.Germany.EU.net> <1992Apr22.204057.25162@rhrk.uni-kl.de> Sender: news@midget.saar.de (John News) Distribution: eunet Organization: Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems, St. Midget Road, Germoney Lines: 30 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5423 naddy@rhrk.uni-kl.de (Christian Weisgerber) writes: >br@Germany.EU.net (Bodo Rueskamp) writes: >>Und der Kommentar, gesprochen von einem "Hellseher" namens >>Criswell, sucht auch seinesgleichen: "Ja, ich weiss, es klingt >>unglaublich; aber koennen *Sie* beweisen, dass es sich *nicht* >>so abgespielt hat?" >Oh, der Typ war lustig. >Ich hatte in Amiland mal ein Buch von dem Menschen in den Fingern. Was >die Sache so richtig pikant machte: das Buch war von Ende der '60er und >somit ein Ueberpruefen der Voraussagen fuer die naechsten 20 Jahre nicht >weiter schwierig. >Leider tat das der Glaubwuerdigkeit unseres Hellsehers gar nicht gut... >Weder wurde Fidel Castro in den '70ern von einer Frau erschossen, noch >tummeln sich heute menschenfressende Mutanten auf unserem Planeten... >(zwei Vorhersagen an die ich mich noch erinnere). Oh Gott, er wusste also alles! Fidel Castro wurde 1970, nachdem er von einer Frau von der Venus erschossen wurde, von den Mutanten durch eine Clone ersetzt.! Fragt mal Gary Stolman, der kann es bestaetigen :) -- John Boerp (boerp@[midget|mutant].saar.de) Old Mutant Road, MHQ Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// [ ... they told me to add this to my .signature: ] [ I speak for myself, not for my employer, and i am in no way afiliated with ] [ it's management. ] Path: ns-mx!uunet!math.fu-berlin.de!news.netmbx.de!zelator!leo From: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de (Stefan Hartmann) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Serious research Keywords: UFO research Message-ID: Date: 25 Apr 92 08:22:39 GMT References: <1992Apr24.142809.3278@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System Lines: 25 In <1992Apr24.142809.3278@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> cfkfb@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Karl Bridges) writes: > Isn't it time that there be a new group established i.e. >alt.ufo.research for those who are seriously interested in what's going >on as a scientific/sociological phenomenon. Paranoid drug induced >fantasies are, for those interested, OK, but that's all that ever >appears here. We need less from the lunatic fringe and more from some >serious research. Right ! This is my view ! Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for Decentral Energy Research email to: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de or harti@mikro.ee.tu-berlin.de -- ******************************************************************************* * Stefan Hartmann This is how to contact me: * * EMAIL: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de * * Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79 * ******************************************************************************* Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!math.fu-berlin.de!news.netmbx.de!zelator!leo From: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de (Stefan Hartmann) Newsgroups: sci.astro,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: An idea how ETs could solve the source direction prob. of SETI Message-ID: Date: 25 Apr 92 08:33:32 GMT References: <1992Apr25.004513.20341@news.unomaha.edu> Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System Lines: 29 Xref: ns-mx sci.astro:16579 alt.alien.visitors:5425 Do You really think, that ETs are using still radio waves to communicate in interstellar space ?? I think an ET race, which has the technology to visit other planets light years ahead, must have a better communication system than radio waves, which only travel at the speed at light ! There must(!!!!!) be something much faster !!! So it is still a pitty, when some scientists still look out with their big radio teleskops for alien radio pulses ! Gee, guys, You are wasting Your times !!!!! Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for Decentral Energy Research email to: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de or harti@mikro.ee.tu-berlin.de -- ******************************************************************************* * Stefan Hartmann This is how to contact me: * * EMAIL: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de * * Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79 * ******************************************************************************* Path: ns-mx!uunet!math.fu-berlin.de!news.netmbx.de!zelator!leo From: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de (Stefan Hartmann) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFO meeting in Berlin Message-ID: Date: 25 Apr 92 08:36:45 GMT References: <704034800.0@krypta.fidonet.ORG> Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System Lines: 70 Hallo Andre, hier mal der UFO-Kongress aus meiner Sicht ! (here comes my view of the Berlin UFO-congress !) Hi to all UFO-investigators out there, I'm just back from the UFO-conference from Berlin, Germany, where I live. The first lecture was by Virgil Armstrong, an ex-CIA worker. It was so disapointing: Uncle Virgil was only telling fairy tales !!! Gee, was this guy ridiculous !!! He only claimed things, but did not have one proof !! No photos, no pictures, no broken ufo-metalls, just cheap talk !! He had 2 hours time for his lecture. He was announced to talk about the UFO-crash in Roswell, New Mexico in 1947 and the Project Grudge etc.. But after one and a half hour he still was speaking about positive and negative energy, until I interrupted him and asked, what about the UFO-crash ! Then he still spoke 10 minutes about bla,bla and then he just tapped a little bit the crash story, that was already told better over here on the net ! He only drawed a few sketches onto the blackboard of an UFO and an alien with a big head, but a little girl would have done this better, I think. Then there came suddenly a lady from the local room office-staff into the lecture room and said, the time is over, we have to do soundcheck for the next speaker. Then uncle Virgil Amstrong went with his "fans" into a smaller room and still there was only claims and not any more information about the UFO-crash !! What a guy, he is real fake ! I should have choosen another lecture ! But I thought this topic about ufo-crash would be the most interesting topic of this conference, cause the other speakers mostly lecture about spiritual cases like channeling and psychololical research on abducted people etc. This might be also interesting, but You can't proove or disproove anything of it, cause You only have the claims of the persons and no pictures of some real sightings ! Okay, one good thing was the entrance hall. There were some pretty good new books out there with pretty good new pictures I did have yet. So it is not to far away, that there will be some more scanned pictures from me on the UFO-pics-FTP-site at phoenix.oulu.fi (10.231.240.17) in /pub/incoming or /pub/ufo_and_space_pics Have a look over there regularly ! By the way, what do You all think about the Ed Walters GIF-pictures over there?=? Please let me know. Post it to alt.alien.visitores please. Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for Decentral Energy Research email to: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de -- ******************************************************************************* * Stefan Hartmann This is how to contact me: * * EMAIL: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de * * Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79 * ******************************************************************************* Path: ns-mx!uunet!math.fu-berlin.de!news.netmbx.de!zelator!leo From: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de (Stefan Hartmann) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFO meeting in Berlin Message-ID: Date: 25 Apr 92 08:52:05 GMT References: <704034800.0@krypta.fidonet.ORG> Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System Lines: 100 In <704034800.0@krypta.fidonet.ORG> Andre.Eichner@f10.n2403.z2.fidonet.ORG (Andre Eichner) writes: >Hi Clark! > CM>Meiner Erinnerung nach, war Armstrong Astronaut in der > CM>fruehern Tagen des US Space Program. Ich habe nichts von > CM>seiner Roswell-Aktivitaeten gehoert. Sind Sie sicher, dass > CM>diesen Mann gutglaeubig ist? Entw. echt Astronaut od. echt > CM>Roswellzeuge? >Soweit ich weis, ist er nicht der Raumfahrer. Der hat wohl einen anderen > Vornamen. >Der Kongress war ein Super-Erfolg. Einzige Ausnahme: Dr.Fred Bell, der hatte > den totalen Reinfall und hat sich dann auch nicht mehr auf die > Abschlussveranstaltung getraut. >Es wurde eine detailierte Information ueber das Philadelphia-Experiment > gegeben. Die von Tesla und Einstein entwickelte allgemeine Feldtheorie und wie > die Felder eingesetzt wurden. Ich hatte auch noch Abends auf einem Essen mit > den Referenten in einem persoenlichen Gespraech, eine Menge erfahren koennen. >Interessant waren die Info's zu Area 51, S4, der unterirdischen Anlagen, von > wo aus die Grey-Aliens starten und landen. Where is the proof ? Did You see it Yourself ? >Es wurde auch jede Menge ueber die Duale Technologie gesprochen, und das die > USA bereits ueber zahlreiche Raumschiffe mit einem Antriebssystem das dem > Searl-System (Bifeld-Brown-Effekt) entspricht. >Die Funktionsweise der Element-115 Reaktoren mit dem besonderen Graviton > wurden ausfuehrlich erlautert. Die Militaers in USA habe die Reaktoren bereits > selbst herstellen koennen und verfuegen ueber eine grosse Menge von > Element-115, das sie von den Grauen bekommen haben. Did You see it ? Did You see photos or where is the proof ? Only claims ??? >Zu den Entfuehrungen durch die Grey-Aliens wurde von Edit Fiore eine Hypnose > an einem Berliner durchgefuehrt, wobei herauskam, das dieser mehrmals von den >Grauen entfuehrt wurde. Das Raumschiff der Grauen soll dabei am Teufelsberg, > vor der US-Radar-Station gelandet sein. Wie hiess der Berliner (Telefon-nummer ?) Wann ist das Ufo am Teufelsberg gelandet ?? Man , kann man das nachpruefen oder sind das wieder alles nur Behauptungen, die keiner Beweisen kann ??? (Where are the witnesses ??) >Douglas Pue berichtete ueber die Verwicklungen der US-Regierung mit den Grauen > und auch ueber die Bilderberger-Verschwoehrung. Namen wollte er nicht nennen, >aber die kann man ja im MJ-12 Dokument nachlesen... Kohl ist ueberigens auch > dabei! >Jerry Wills zeigte 2 Gegenstaende, die er von seinen Ausserirdischen Freunden >bekommen haben will (konnte ich nicht nachpruefen, ob die wirklich > ausserirdisch waren...) Wem hat er das gezeigt ?? Wurden davon Photos gemacht ? Was fuer Gegenstaende waren das ?? >Brian O'Leary fuehrte und Psychokinese vor, wie bei Metallen durch geistige > Energie die Molekularbindung voruebergehend geschwaecht wird. Er ist in > Amerika ein Astronomie und Physikprofessor. >Achmed Khamas stellte eine Syrische Machine vor, die mit freier Energie aus > dem Wasser angetrieben wurde und Strom erzeugt. Hast Du es gesehen, dass es wirklich funktioniert ohne externe Versorgung ?? Wieviel Leistung gibt sie ab ? Dauerleistung ? Wie gross is sie ?? Wurde sie schon mal von einem Institut getestet ??? >ok. Ich hoffe du kannst den Text uebersetzen. okay, ich hoffe, Du kannst alle meine Fragen beantworten, wenn Du hier soviel behauptest !!! >cheers > Andre >--- > * Origin: FidoNet-Berlin, the magic node (2:2403/10) Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for Decentral Energy Research email to: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de or harti@mikro.ee.tu-berlin.de -- ******************************************************************************* * Stefan Hartmann This is how to contact me: * * EMAIL: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de * * Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79 * ******************************************************************************* Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!munnari.oz.au!uunet!polari!rwing!fylz!eskimo!nanook From: nanook@eskimo.celestial.com (Robert Dinse) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Serious research Summary: Moderated UFO Research Group Keywords: UFO research Message-ID: <1992Apr25.071536.6329@eskimo.celestial.com> Date: 25 Apr 92 07:15:36 GMT References: <1992Apr24.142809.3278@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> <7629@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au> Organization: <<< ESKIMO NORTH (206)-FOR-EVER >>> Lines: 27 In article <7629@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au>, rhys@cs.uq.oz.au (Rhys Weatherley) writes: >I'm not saying this will happen, but it needs to be kept in mind. Moderation >may be a good idea, with only information and discussion about serious, >verifiable research activities allowed to get through the moderator. (Yes, >approved postings can be forged, but moderation should help a bit). Something >like comp.risks (and others) which is a mixture of informational postings and >discussion. I'm 100% in favor of a moderated version of alt.alien.visitors, I'm not sure that alt.ufo.research is really necessary. How about just adding a sub-group to this hiarchy: alt.alien.visitors.moderated for those who don't wish to deal with the signal-to-noise ratio of the unmoderated group. When I first started reading this group I found it quite interesting, but now that it's been polluted with the alt.religion.newage crap and other non-related B.S. I've given serious consideration to unsubscribing. I would really welcome a group where we could talk about real sitings, real evidence, maybe speculation on how FTL travel might be possible, or even interplanetary travel within the normal physical laws. I mean maybe there are alien races with lifespans of tens of thousands of years, which would permit both more rapid advancement as knowledge could be accumulated and passed down more effeciently to future generations, and the long distances would seem less distant. At any rate, the Invasion/Govt Plot/Paleidians Vs. Greys, is beginning to wear on my nerves. Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!mcnc!borg!excalibur!ingram From: ingram@excalibur.cs.unc.edu (Robert Ingram) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre Subject: Re: A question. Summary: moon, stars Keywords: moon Message-ID: <11617@borg.cs.unc.edu> Date: 25 Apr 92 16:26:46 GMT References: Sender: news@cs.unc.edu Followup-To: alt.vlevet.underground Organization: Unemployment Deferrments, Inc. Lines: 13 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5429 talk.bizarre:56545 In article gstimp@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Gary Stimpson) writes: >WHY in the world would anybody want to go to the moon? > Fly me to the moon, Fly me to the stars. There are no stars in The New York skyline, They're all on the ground. --Lou Reed, _Songs For Drella_ -robert ingram@samba.oit.unc.edu Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!decwrl!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!carasso From: carasso@netcom.com (RDC) Newsgroups: talk.bizarre,soc.rights.alien,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: A question. Keywords: moon Message-ID: Date: 25 Apr 92 19:25:23 GMT References: <11617@borg.cs.unc.edu> Organization: PTA BOARD COUNCIL OF THE GREATER UNITED STATES Lines: 7 Xref: ns-mx talk.bizarre:56552 alt.alien.visitors:5430 gstimp@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Gary Stimpson) writes: > >WHY in the world would anybody want to go to the moon? Moonbabes. -- Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!news From: SCHLEGEL@Zeus.unomaha.edu (Mark) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.astro Subject: Addition to 'how ETs could solve source direction problem' Message-ID: <1992Apr25.221538.6520@news.unomaha.edu> Date: 25 Apr 92 22:15:38 GMT References: <1992Apr25.004513.20341@news.unomaha.edu> Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server) Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha Lines: 92 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5431 sci.astro:16593 In-Reply-To: SCHLEGEL@Zeus.unomaha.edu's message of Sat, 25 Apr 1992 00: 45:13 GMT X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.11 In <1992Apr25.004513.20341@news.unomaha.edu> SCHLEGEL@Zeus.unomaha.edu writes: > > > One of the tough problems in SETI (Search for Extra Terrestrial > Intelligence) is the problem of where to point high gain radio > antennas. A sensitive high gain has a relatively tight receiving > beam angle within which it can detect a weak transmission, this > angle depends mainly on the wavelength and antenna diameter. > > It occurred to me that a powerful ET civilization with effective > interstellar travel could make it very easy for their transmitter > to be found (I will assume that interstellar travel is possible > for them). This will be based on several hopefully sound assumptions > made by the ETs about the civilizations out in the Galaxy: > > 1). A race intelligent enough to build a high gain receiver > would also be interested in radio astronomy and > knowledgeable about sources of radio emissions > (like pulsars, supernovae, etc) > > 2). While looking at pulsars these astronomers would eventually > notice that pulsars emit extremely regular pulses of > emission from radio upward to gamma rays. > > 3). This race would then study these pulsars with radio > telescopes designed to sift out faint, very fast > radio pulses (using fourier analysis, etc) > > The ETs could then set up a simple transmitter near a pulsar that would > continuously transmit prime numbers (to get attention) and then a simple > message that would say when deciphered: > > "For the real message look for a transmitter located Y light years > from this pulsar transmitting at frequency Z and at height H above the > galactic disk.The second transmitter sees an angle Q between this > pulsar and the galactic nucleus". The distance of the 2nd transmitter from the pulsar must be described without units like light years since this unit is peculiar to the earth (the ETs have a different year and so a different light year). One way this could be done would be for them transmit the pulsar period as seen from the 2nd transmitter (this could be described as a multiple of the carrier frequency). Since the receiving civilization can easily measure the slow down rate of the pulsar's spin (the period derivative) this can give them the distance between the 2nd transmitter and the pulsar without special units (if they know the distance to the pulsar from their planet too). > This is enough info to get the telescopes in the right general direction > for the second message. > > The general idea is that the first transmitter takes advantage of the > fact that various races will turn sensitive radio telescopes at pulsars > on their own and then this transmitter would be detected. > This first message would be simple to decipher maybe using the famous > string of bits of size equal to a number that is only a factor of two > primes so that the message is a picture in two dimensions (see Carl > Sagen's "Cosmos" or "Contact") > > The second transmitter is in a region of space distant from local > sources of noise (the pulsar for example) and it transmits the complex > messages. Or another posibility--it tells us basic information but as > far as dangerous information it would say something like, "further information > about faster than light travel is being tranmitted by gravitational > waves at frequency F and power spectrum P and bandwidth B. > > Since gravitational waves are almost impossible for a moderately advanced > race to detect they would be protected from knowledge they probably > shouldn't have. > > One last point, from a standpoint of effectiveness the ETs would want > to pick an obvious pulsar with a bright supernova remnant still around > it, this would call attention to the pulsar in optical telescopes. > It should also be near the outer edge of the galactic disk so that > the first transmitter would take in the maximum number of stars for > a beam of a given width (it would point in towards the galactic center) > > Interestingly enough a pulsar does fit all of these criteria: > > the Crab Pulsar in the supernova remnant NGC 1976 > also known as Messier 1 in the messier catalog. > > It rotates 33 times a second and has a brilliant optical > nebula around it. > > Mark Schlegel schlegel@zeus.unomaha.edu > Mark Schlegel schlegel@zeus.unomaha.edu Path: ns-mx!uunet!olivea!decwrl!access.usask.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!umrutko0 From: umrutko0@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Chris Rutkowski) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Serious research Keywords: UFO research Message-ID: <1992Apr25.230700.18997@ccu.umanitoba.ca> Date: 25 Apr 92 23:07:00 GMT References: <1992Apr24.142809.3278@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> <7629@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au> Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada Lines: 41 In <7629@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au> rhys@cs.uq.oz.au (Rhys Weatherley) writes: >In <1992Apr24.142809.3278@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> cfkfb@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Karl Bridges) writes: >> Isn't it time that there be a new group established i.e. >>alt.ufo.research for those who are seriously interested in what's going >>on as a scientific/sociological phenomenon. Paranoid drug induced >>fantasies are, for those interested, OK, but that's all that ever >>appears here. We need less from the lunatic fringe and more from some >>serious research. I agree, but the follow-up posts raise the necessary cautions, and the following: >It's a good idea. On the surface at least. But I fear that the lunatics >would cross-post to it anyway. Consider: any serious UFO researcher should >be aware of the Pleiadians and friends since the names crop up so much lately >and then try to separate the wheat from the chaff. So our friendly >neighbourhood lunatics might consider their posting their voluminous >information to an alt.ufo.research group as doing the researchers a service >by keeping the researchers "up to date". :-) Thus alt.ufo.research becomes >a mirror of alt.alien.visitors and we are back to square one. alt.alien after a few days! I thought the FIDONET was bad! I was under the impression that INTERNET had intellectual discussions only! k >I'm not saying this will happen, but it needs to be kept in mind. Moderation >may be a good idea, with only information and discussion about serious, >verifiable research activities allowed to get through the moderator. (Yes, >approved postings can be forged, but moderation should help a bit). Something >like comp.risks (and others) which is a mixture of informational postings and >discussion. >Now, who wants to be moderator? (not me :-) I wouldn't mind doing it, but I'm not sure how much time it would take! -- Chris Rutkowski - umrutko0@ccu.umanitoba.ca Royal Astronomical Society of Canada University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!linac!mp.cs.niu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.cso.uiuc.edu!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!jbh55289 From: jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh 'K' Hopkins) Newsgroups: sci.astro,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: An idea how ETs could solve the source direction prob. of SETI Message-ID: <1992Apr26.013651.28904@news.cso.uiuc.edu> Date: 26 Apr 92 01:36:51 GMT References: <1992Apr25.004513.20341@news.unomaha.edu> Sender: usenet@news.cso.uiuc.edu (Net Noise owner) Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana Lines: 42 Xref: ns-mx sci.astro:16598 alt.alien.visitors:5433 SCHLEGEL@Zeus.unomaha.edu (Mark) writes: >It occurred to me that a powerful ET civilization with effective >interstellar travel could make it very easy for their transmitter >to be found (I will assume that interstellar travel is possible >The ETs could then set up a simple transmitter near a pulsar that would >continuously transmit prime numbers (to get attention) and then a simple >message that would say when deciphered: > "For the real message look for a transmitter located Y light years >from this pulsar transmitting at frequency Z and at height H above the >galactic disk.The second transmitter sees an angle Q between this >pulsar and the galactic nucleus". >This is enough info to get the telescopes in the right general direction >for the second message. >The general idea is that the first transmitter takes advantage of the >fact that various races will turn sensitive radio telescopes at pulsars >on their own and then this transmitter would be detected. >This first message would be simple to decipher maybe using the famous >string of bits of size equal to a number that is only a factor of two >primes so that the message is a picture in two dimensions (see Carl >Sagen's "Cosmos" or "Contact") One project I've always wanted to do with some school kids is give them the Arecibo SETI message and see if they can figure it out. I don't think they could get anything out of the sequence of bits, and there are some things that they still wouldn't be able to get out of the final picture. How would you format your 'simple' message so that an utterly alien race could figure it out? It seems to me that you'll have to define your units of distance, counting system and coordinate system. To do this, or even just draw a picture accurate enough to convey the required precision will require a lot of bits. For that matter, why don't you just put the main transmitter in the same location? Then you don't have to worry about your contacts finding both of them, and you won't be revealing your location. Josh Hopkins Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!uunet!hela.iti.org!widener!beyonet!beyo From: beyo@beyonet.UUCP (Steve Urich) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFO meeting in Berlin Message-ID: <354@beyonet.UUCP> Date: 26 Apr 92 05:33:36 GMT References: <704034800.0@krypta.fidonet.ORG> Organization: Beyonet Network Lines: 41 leo@zelator.in-berlin.de (Stefan Hartmann) writes: >I'm just back from the UFO-conference from Berlin, Germany, where I live. I used to live in Berlin, 7 Flanagan Strasse beim Grunewald forest park in the American Apartments for 3+ years when I was very young. That place was big full of trails and old Fort Towers etc etc. There might even have been a few ufo landings in there I bet :-). >It was so disapointing: Not to say I told you so, but I told you so. I bet that dude was drunk, did you smell any whiskey when he was foaming at the mouth and putting everybody to sleep trying to sell his snake oil? >Uncle Virgil was only telling fairy tales !!! You should have given him the 'horsebutt' trophy. Thats a trophy with a half a horse showing the 'butt'. :-) [..] There are many 'newage/ufo' snake oil salesmen with the gift of gab that are usually alcoholics and are trying to sell info to people that are truly interested in genuine info. Its too bad there are so many that are doing this. So whats going on with the 'aurora' ships the USA has? Did anyone else see the newscast about the 'black technology'? Steve -- ############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ############### ##|_|########## Bensalem, PA USA |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|########## ###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ############### #### #### snark!beyonet!beyo |when I hit the Screen" #### #### ## |_| ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project ## |_| ## ## ##-----------------------------------------------## ## #### #### Packet Radio: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.#SEPA.PA.USA.NA #### #### _###############_______________________________________________###############_ Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!uunet!hela.iti.org!widener!beyonet!beyo From: beyo@beyonet.UUCP (Steve Urich) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFO meeting in Berlin Message-ID: <355@beyonet.UUCP> Date: 26 Apr 92 05:50:51 GMT References: <704034800.0@krypta.fidonet.ORG> Organization: Beyonet Network Lines: 48 leo@zelator.in-berlin.de (Stefan Hartmann) writes: >In <704034800.0@krypta.fidonet.ORG> Andre.Eichner@f10.n2403.z2.fidonet.ORG (Andre Eichner) writes: [...] >>Interessant waren die Info's zu Area 51, S4, der unterirdischen Anlagen, von >> wo aus die Grey-Aliens starten und landen. > >Where is the proof ? Did You see it Yourself ? I doubt that he seen them himself :-) Good try though Stefan... [...] >> wurden ausfuehrlich erlautert. Die Militaers in USA habe die Reaktoren bereits >> selbst herstellen koennen und verfuegen ueber eine grosse Menge von >> Element-115, das sie von den Grauen bekommen haben. >Did You see it ? Did You see photos or where is the proof ? Only claims ??? What I would like to know is what we gave the Grays to trade for recieving Element-115? Maybe loads of Strawberry Ice Cream :-). >>Grauen entfuehrt wurde. Das Raumschiff der Grauen soll dabei am Teufelsberg, >> vor der US-Radar-Station gelandet sein. > >Wie hiess der Berliner (Telefon-nummer ?) Wann ist das Ufo am Teufelsberg >gelandet ?? Man , kann man das nachpruefen oder sind das wieder alles nur >Behauptungen, die keiner Beweisen kann ??? >(Where are the witnesses ??) Ok lets be serious now!!! What is it with the 'Teufelsberg' anyway?!?! First it was the witches meeting place where all the witches go meet at some apointed full-moon time all using 'astral projections' of themselves because the 'Teufelsberg' was in Old-East Berlin and it was the meeting place since the beginning of whatever. Now its become an spaceport for Aliens!?!?!?! Whats going on here?!?!? There must be a big deal about this 'Teufelsberg'? The german witches say that this place is where the other dimensions cross and you can visit the dead in astral bodies. What do the aliens want there :-) -- ############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ############### ##|_|########## Bensalem, PA USA |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|########## ###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ############### #### #### snark!beyonet!beyo |when I hit the Screen" #### #### ## |_| ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project ## |_| ## ## ##-----------------------------------------------## ## #### #### Packet Radio: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.#SEPA.PA.USA.NA #### #### _###############_______________________________________________###############_ Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!news.bbn.com!noc.near.net!mars.caps.maine.edu!maine.maine.edu!io10081 From: IO10081@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (The Xanadian) Newsgroups: sci.astro,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: An idea how ETs could solve the source direction prob. of SETI Message-ID: <92116.233429IO10081@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> Date: 26 Apr 92 03:34:29 GMT References: <1992Apr25.004513.20341@news.unomaha.edu> Organization: University of Maine System Lines: 24 Xref: ns-mx sci.astro:16601 alt.alien.visitors:5436 In article , leo@zelator.in-berlin.de (Stefan Hartmann) says: > >I think an ET race, which has the technology to visit other planets light >years ahead, must have a better communication system than radio waves, >which only travel at the speed at light ! Okay, if the radio waves are travelling at the speed of light, which they are, and they live 200 light years away, don't you think that it may be possible that this alien race *could* have been using radio waves 200 years ago? Thus, we could *still* receive radio transmissions from them, but their technology would already be advanced beyond using radio technology. Of course, if you're talking about aliens putting out these transmitters *now*, then there that may be highly unlikely. Unless: If these aliens are smart enough to build all this sophisticated junk, don't you think that they may be smart enough to realize that we still can only use EMR? Of course, that leaves the question of whether or not they would even want to bother with a race with inferior technology... *grin* Hope I made myself clear. :) Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!gatech!purdue!mentor.cc.purdue.edu!pop.stat.purdue.edu!hrubin From: hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) Newsgroups: sci.astro,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: An idea how ETs could solve the source direction prob. of SETI Message-ID: <47272@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> Date: 26 Apr 92 13:19:37 GMT References: <1992Apr25.004513.20341@news.unomaha.edu> Sender: news@mentor.cc.purdue.edu Followup-To: sci.astro Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department Lines: 24 Xref: ns-mx sci.astro:16610 alt.alien.visitors:5437 In article leo@zelator.in-berlin.de (Stefan Hartmann) writes: ................... >I think an ET race, which has the technology to visit other planets light >years ahead, must have a better communication system than radio waves, >which only travel at the speed at light ! >There must(!!!!!) be something much faster !!! Why must there? Possibly these ETs have lifetimes in the thousands of years, so that a 20-year trip between planets is like a 1-year trip to us, or even less. Not a Sunday jaunt, but still not prohibitive. If these long lifetimes do not happen, they might use suspended animation in their explorations. This subject has been treated fairly well in science fiction. "If wishes were horses, then beggars would ride." -- Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399 Phone: (317)494-6054 hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet) {purdue,pur-ee}!pop.stat!hrubin(UUCP) Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!raven.alaska.edu!acad2.alaska.edu!asljl From: asljl@acad2.alaska.edu Newsgroups: sci.space,alt.alien.visitors Subject: ALL CONERNED ABOUT FEDERATION!!! Message-ID: <1992Apr26.151851.1@acad2.alaska.edu> Date: 26 Apr 92 19:18:51 GMT Sender: news@raven.alaska.edu (USENET News System) Organization: University of Alaska Lines: 19 Xref: ns-mx sci.space:29383 alt.alien.visitors:5438 Nntp-Posting-Host: acad2.alaska.edu ATTENTION !!!! ALL THOSE INTERESTED IN THE FEDERATION !!!!!!!!! Due to system restrictions imposed by the University of Alaska I can no longer, Post, or send to any personal mail accounts, Information concerning the Federation. However, if you would like more information, you can send to the following mail address or send your U.S Po.box address to this electronic mail account. Please do it as soon as possible. I have only four weeks left on this account. Lady Rhavyn Po.box 231772 Anchorage, Alaska 99523-1772 TO OUR MAN IN FLORIDA!!!! CONTACT US AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. WE HAVE MORE INFO TO SEND YOU. Signed Lady Rhavyn Path: ns-mx!uunet!van-bc!ubc-cs!unixg.ubc.ca!kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca!access.usask.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!bison!draco!sys6626!gstimp From: gstimp@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Gary Stimpson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: A new TV show? Message-ID: Date: 26 Apr 92 23:42:40 GMT Organization: system 6626 BBS, Winnipeg MB Lines: 10 Sitting infront of the TV at around 2am last night, I came across the end of a commerical for "INTRUDERS" This man said something like, "After see'ing this, you WILL believe!" Hmm.. wonder what it is? Anybody know? It was on WJBK CBS. Thought it might be some new UFO show.. Gary ;--- (Gary Stimpson) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64 ;E-mail: gstimp@sys6626.bison.mb.ca ;system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8 Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!ames!olivea!isc-br!tau-ceti!visual!mstaben From: mstaben@visual.spk.wa.us (Matt Staben) Newsgroups: talk.bizarre,soc.rights.alien,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: A question. Keywords: moon Message-ID: <1992Apr27.040428.21472@visual.spk.wa.us> Date: 27 Apr 92 04:04:28 GMT References: <11617@borg.cs.unc.edu> Organization: The Visual Market Public Access Site - Spokane, WA Lines: 12 Xref: ns-mx talk.bizarre:56677 alt.alien.visitors:5440 In article carasso@netcom.com (RDC) writes: >gstimp@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Gary Stimpson) writes: >> >>WHY in the world would anybody want to go to the moon? > >Moonbabes. > >-- Moonbabes also benefit from the lower gravitational constant. -- Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!decwrl!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!kcbbs!kc From: Robert_Sutton@kcbbs.gen.nz (Robert Sutton) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Alien Media Coverage Message-ID: <34302.1169223325@kcbbs.gen.nz> Date: 26 Apr 92 09:31:42 GMT Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand Lines: 33 Isn't it well overdue to inquire about the media coverage of the ETOI's presence known to the masses?. Oh how many times have I heard it said that the detection & or contact with ETOI would be the/one of the greatest events in human history (not that many actually) & wondered what the coverage of it would be like. Would thier be an almighty rush to be 1st to the story or a well controlled media pool affair?,a floundering around in the dark(literally & otherwise) continous coverage on the 24Hrs news stations,special newspaper editions etc while new developments were occuring or -NAFF ALL OF DETAIL- Anyone out there got any ideas,indications,plans,inside info etc on how it would go down if the ETOI's come down for different scenerios in the media?. & decrease the chances they will cock it up Would be damn ironic if the ETOI's decided after much deliberation to Would be damn ironic if the ETOI's decided after much deliberation to make thier presence known to the many & then found not excatly a rush to get the 1st 1-to-1. & so depart forthwith. Wouldn't be surprised...... *********************** ARE ETOI SPACESHIPS SHY OR JUST WAITING TO SEAL THE ROYALTY DEAL?. *********************** OH Yes ETOI=ExtraTerrestrial Orginating Intelligence(cause thier's bugger all down here on Earth). bugger all down here on Earth). Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!Don_-_Showen From: Don_-_Showen@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Serious research Message-ID: <58043@cup.portal.com> Date: 27 Apr 92 05:52:34 GMT References: <1992Apr24.142809.3278@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> <7629@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au> <1992Apr25.230700.18997@ccu.umanitoba.ca> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 9 Oh boy serious research. You mean the kind allegedly done in colleges? Like the professor with tenure who made the mistake of researching a device that would actually heal. He got fired because the AMA threatened to pull their research funding. Colleges are to get people who came from the stars to believe they came from apes. Colleges produce an individual with a lower mentality than a reborn Christian. Yea, lets have some serious research. Don Showen Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!mips!munnari.oz.au!metro!usage!csdvax.csd.unsw.edu.au!p2029901 From: p2029901@csdvax.csd.unsw.edu.au Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Help they are after me Message-ID: <1992Apr27.133312.1929@csdvax.csd.unsw.edu.au> Date: 27 Apr 92 03:33:12 GMT References: <6643@shodha.enet.dec.com> Organization: University of New South Wales Lines: 51 In article <6643@shodha.enet.dec.com>, Stollman@bluenote.ul.com (Gary Stollman) writes: > > In article <116165164143141163145@bluenote>, gas@bluenote.ul.com (Gary Stollman) writes... >>Help I don;t know wher eto go >> >>I have just signed on after many months and these are all these >>notes supposedly written by me. some of them obvious forgerys >> >>None of them were written by me. I have reason to believe they were written by my mom who is out to get me (my fake mom not my real one)Please do not believe any notes written >>by me. >> >>Gotta get out of here before they find out I am signed on. >> >>Gary > > The above note is obviously a fake. The real Gary is more > articulate than this. Besides the posting looks like it came > from a FIDO net source. Gary does not post from a FIDO net > source. > > Gary, Gary, Gary.... > > OK I am going to come clean. This is really Gary Stollman. I > work for the Shop, you know "THE SHOP." I volunteered to have my > self cloned as an experiment in creating legions of clones as > solders to help the Reticulans in a battle against a Cylon like > race from Altair. You escaped and instead of having you > terminated we decided to watch you. You went insane and we have > decided the experiment was a complete failure. You are a fluke > of the Universe. > > > Now Gary if you believe this I have some land in Florida for you. > > > Sorry Gary I have been having fun at your expense. I still > believe that you are unstable but that just makes your postings > interesting and entertaining. > > > Steve Food_for_the_Greys Behold - the hamburgler! Tell us, oh Hamburgler; have you seen the flying saucers? Dealwis - foot for tort. Path: ns-mx!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!Malfera From: Malfera@cup.portal.com (Dan M Healy) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: A new TV show? Message-ID: <58049@cup.portal.com> Date: 27 Apr 92 07:31:26 GMT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 7 Sightings... is about all different things considered 'paranormal'. I just caught an episode on ESP and the next one is on Psychic healing... Dunno if they did a UFO show yet. Malfera@cup.portal.com Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!math.fu-berlin.de!NewsServ!reseq!regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de!pal From: pal@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.dbp.de (Peter Loibl) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFO meeting in Berlin Message-ID: Date: 27 Apr 92 07:46:31 GMT References: <704034800.0@krypta.fidonet.ORG> Sender: brsnews@reseq.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de Lines: 7 Hi! Could you post the article of the meeting on the net - for all those interested guys, who didn't have the possibility of go to Berlin Peter pal@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!ames!news.hawaii.edu!lumchan!patten From: patten@lumchan.ifa.hawaii.edu (Brian) Newsgroups: talk.bizarre,soc.rights.alien,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: A question. Keywords: moon Message-ID: <1992Apr27.081644.29554@news.Hawaii.Edu> Date: 27 Apr 92 08:16:44 GMT References: <11617@borg.cs.unc.edu> <1992Apr27.040428.21472@visual.spk.wa.us> Sender: root@news.Hawaii.Edu (News Service) Organization: Institute for Astronomy, Univ. of Hawaii Lines: 23 Xref: ns-mx talk.bizarre:56679 alt.alien.visitors:5446 Nntp-Posting-Host: lumchan.ifa.hawaii.edu In article <1992Apr27.040428.21472@visual.spk.wa.us>, mstaben@visual.spk.wa.us (Matt Staben) writes: |> In article carasso@netcom.com (RDC) writes: |> >gstimp@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Gary Stimpson) writes: |> >> |> >>WHY in the world would anybody want to go to the moon? |> > |> >Moonbabes. |> > |> >-- |> |> Moonbabes also benefit from the lower gravitational constant. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I myself would like to try the Moonbabes in our home universe before jumping, sliding, tunneling, or whatever into another universe. Hmmmmm, on second thought, maybe I should try to be a little more adventurous... --- Brian Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!warwick!mrccrc!mrccrc!sgamble From: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Serious research Keywords: UFO research Message-ID: <1992Apr27.104103.4330@crc.ac.uk> Date: 27 Apr 92 10:41:03 GMT References: <1992Apr24.142809.3278@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> <1992Apr24.232633.9625@mprgate.mpr.ca> Sender: news@crc.ac.uk Reply-To: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) Organization: MRC Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Harrow, UK Lines: 27 Nntp-Posting-Host: germanium I can see that there is a case for having a group for serious UFO research. The problem I can see is that as anybody can post we will still get it filled up by idiots who think they are aliens who came here on flying hot dogs. Another problem would be cross posting. At the moment people seem to cross post the same article to alt.alien.visitors, sci.skeptic, alt.paranormal and in some cases sci.space. It is bad enough reading the same article four times already. The main problem with alt.alien.visitors is the name. Alien visitors is only one of many SUGGESTED explanations for UFO phenomena. Alien visitors is just a red rag to the idiot brigade. Perhaps we should be looking to a name change to alt.ufo, then form as necessary special interest groups like alt.ufo.atmospheric, alt.ufo.eth, maybe even alt.ufo.meetings. (And when I say .meetings I mean lectures and conferences, not contactee/ abductee type reports.) Basically, I support the idea that we do something, either new group or change of name Steve. -- (Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!) Steve Gamble, Computing Services, Clinical Research Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK. Phone: 081 869 3293 JANET: s.gamble@uk.ac.crc INTERNET: s.gamble@crc.ac.uk Path: ns-mx!uunet!van-bc!ubc-cs!unixg.ubc.ca!kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca!access.usask.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!umrutko0 From: umrutko0@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Chris Rutkowski) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Crop circles Summary: 1992 Formations Found? Keywords: Crop Circles North America Message-ID: <1992Apr27.144820.8202@ccu.umanitoba.ca> Date: 27 Apr 92 14:48:20 GMT Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada Lines: 19 FROM: NAICCR (North American Institute for Crop Circle Research) An American representative of the British CCCS has informed NAICCR that a new, 1992, crop circle formation has already been found. The location is Jonesboro, Georgia (?). It was found on or about April 20, 1992. Does anyone on the NET have any further infomation? NAICCR is interested in learning details of any and all circles and traces found in North America. In addition, recent UFO activity in New Hampshire is alleged to have included crop circles or traces. Can anyone post details here or e-mail directly to NAICCR at the .sig below? Full credit will be given in NAIICR Reports. -- Chris Rutkowski - umrutko0@ccu.umanitoba.ca Royal Astronomical Society of Canada University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!bmartino From: bmartino@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Bob Martino) Newsgroups: sci.astro,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: An idea how ETs could solve the source direction prob. of SETI Message-ID: <1992Apr27.163321.20202@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Date: 27 Apr 92 16:33:21 GMT References: <1992Apr25.004513.20341@news.unomaha.edu> Do You really think, that ETs are using still radio waves to communicate >in interstellar space ?? > >I think an ET race, which has the technology to visit other planets light >years ahead, must have a better communication system than radio waves, >which only travel at the speed at light ! > >There must(!!!!!) be something much faster !!! > >So it is still a pitty, when some scientists still look out with their >big radio teleskops for alien radio pulses ! > > >Gee, guys, You are wasting Your times !!!!! > > >Best regards, Stefan Hartmann Gee Stephen, you are making an assumption here that Dr. Einstein wouldn't like at all. Can you spot what it is? ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ! That Bob Martino Guy ! "I think, therefore I am." ! ! bmartino@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu ! -Descartes ! ! ! "I am that I am." ! ! God INVENTED science. So there. ! -God ! ! ^^^^^^^^ ! "I am a jelly dougnut." ! ! ! -J.F. Kennedy ! ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!csn!boulder!ucsu!cubldr.colorado.edu!crago_l From: crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: RE: new TV show Message-ID: <1992Apr27.091756.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> Date: 27 Apr 92 16:17:56 GMT Sender: news@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (USENET News System) Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder Lines: 7 Nntp-Posting-Host: gold.colorado.edu According to *UFO Magazine* in a section called Media Watch, *Intruders* will be a CBS miniseries which (they say) "we've been informed does NOT really have a character based on Budd Hopkins. Just the title and a *certain element* were purchased from Hopkins. * The male lead, played by Richard Crenna, is really a conglomerate of UFO personalities, says someone in the know. At any rate, it may air around 14-18 May, I don't have the exact dates. Path: ns-mx!uunet!comp.vuw.ac.nz!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!kcbbs!kc From: Robert_Sutton@kcbbs.gen.nz (Robert Sutton) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: PENTAGON ADMITS IT HAS ALIEN VESSELS Message-ID: <35388.1189214361@kcbbs.gen.nz> Date: 28 Apr 92 09:49:48 GMT References: <1992Apr24.205532.7978@mprgate.mpr.ca> Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand Lines: 28 spani@mprrgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani) types- >I believe there maybe something in this.The tour at least Well they had a very interesting good ole yaker about this on BBWS Megamix last year.Tim Good himself & Beeb science correspondent David Whitehouse were arguing it out on matters UFO including this tour(de force). Seems Tim Good said he had it from unidentified sources that a STS model on wheels would be in an NASA/Private Industry exhibition around the world marking sesquicentenary of Chris Columbus & Co.Also included would be either an alien(of the extraterrestrial orginating type) corpse or an ETO craft or at least model of.Interestingly soon after I heard on VOA that after a longer than planned exhibit at Spaceport USA at KSC as the most popular exhibit thier the STS model would be making a tour worldwide(think it may have been in about 6 months).Both Megamix & the VOA item said the STS model is called -Ambassador- No mention on the VOA item of the alien aspects(is it part of a coverup?) No mention on the VOA item of the alien aspects(is it part of a coverup?) Well maybe if it goes ahead someday the media will get thier wires crossed again & spaek of The Alien Ambassador. **************************** ARE ETOI SPACESHIPS SHY OR ARE THEY JUST WAITING TO SEAL THE ROYALTY DEAL?. **************************** Path: ns-mx!uunet!morrow.stanford.edu!decwrl!pa.dec.com!shodha.enet.dec.com!timpson From: timpson@shodha.enet.dec.com (Steve Timpson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Help they are after me Message-ID: <6700@shodha.enet.dec.com> Date: 27 Apr 92 13:48:07 GMT Sender: news@shodha.enet.dec.com Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 17 In article <1992Apr27.133312.1929@csdvax.csd.unsw.edu.au>, p2029901@csdvax.csd.unsw.edu.au writes... ]> ]> Steve Food_for_the_Greys > > Behold - the hamburgler! > > Tell us, oh Hamburgler; have you seen the flying saucers? > > > Dealwis - foot for tort. Huh!? I believe this is a REtort but I am not real sure. Steve Food_for_the_Greys Path: ns-mx!uunet!europa.asd.contel.com!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!news From: STONE@Zeus.unomaha.edu (Travis R. Stone) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Hypnosis in Abduction Studies Message-ID: <1992Apr27.212305.15079@news.unomaha.edu> Date: 27 Apr 92 21:23:05 GMT Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server) Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha Lines: 31 X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.11 In Article #3771, crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu---whomever you are, sir or madame---made a point about the validity of hypnosis as a tool for researching possible abduction cases. The mention of hypnosis puts me in mind of the most atrocious book on hypnotically- uncovered abduction experiences I think I've ever read---a piece of tripe by some person called Edith Fiore, Ph.D, the title of which escapes me at the moment ("Encounters", maybe?) and which serves as a masterful example of how to ask blatantly leading questions. Things like "do you remember being taken up by the aliens into their space- ship?" and "do you think the aliens were trying to cure your hemmorhoids?" and "try to recall the first moment when the ET's kidnapped you." Talk about "poisoning the well." As far as hypnosis itself goes, can one really lend much weight to what it retrieves in regard to these supposed "abductions" (remember, folks---nothing has been definitely proven one way OR the other as to the existence of EBE's) when it has been demonstrated to be of dubious reliability under far less psychologically stressful conditions (recalling license plate numbers, the color of a bank robber's blazer, etc.)? What I mean to say is, if it's spotty for something as simple as helping someone to recall a plate number, how good is it going to be in helping someone recall his kidnap and medical examination by a mob of pug-ugly little grey men from Cygnus Minor?...... T.R. Stone University of Nebraska-Omaha Home of the Toughest Organic Chemistry Instructors in the Galaxy (whether you hypnotize them or not.) Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!bionet!raven.alaska.edu!acad2.alaska.edu!asljl From: asljl@acad2.alaska.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space Subject: FLORIDA GROUP CONTACT FEDERATION!!! Message-ID: <1992Apr27.125144.1@acad2.alaska.edu> Date: 27 Apr 92 16:51:44 GMT Sender: news@raven.alaska.edu (USENET News System) Organization: University of Alaska Lines: 33 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5454 sci.space:29408 Nntp-Posting-Host: acad2.alaska.edu Path: acad2.alaska.edu!asljl From: asljl@acad2.alaska.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space Subject: FLORIDA GROUP CONTACT THE FEDERATION Message-ID: <1992Apr27.123437.1@acad2.alaska.edu> Date: 27 Apr 92 12:34:37 AST Organization: University of Alaska ATTENTION FLORIDA GROUP OF THE UNIVERISTY OF FLORIDA!!!!! THIS IS THE FEDERATION CALLING !!!!! PLEASE RESPOND. This Account will be expire in four weeks. We are trying to reach a Andy C. there. He was chosen to speak for a group of about 200. I recieved a message from him about 2 weeks ago and have heard nothing since. Please Answer. We would like to start a Us mail correspondence. Here is our address. Lady Rhavyn po.box.231772 anchorage, alaska, 99523-1772 If you are going to correspond with us mail please let us know. We know you wished names unused, but we have not headr from you . Vital information stands by to be sent for the strat of the project we discussed. Please Respond as soon as possible. We wish to start. And we wish to give you as much as we have available. We can no longer post information due to this universities restrictions. Please contact us so we can get going. urgently signed Lady Rhavyn. Keep The faith, And Peace be with you all. Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM!lpb From: lpb@STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM (Len Bucuvalas) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Linda Moulton Howe: Cattle Mutilations and Human Abductions Message-ID: <9204272305.AA23625@echidna.swdc.stratus.com> Date: 27 Apr 92 23:05:45 GMT Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Lines: 193 ******* SUMMARY OF LECTURE BY Linda Moulton Howe San Francisco Whole Life Expo 10-Noon, April 25, 1992 ------- (Linda has been a TV producer and writer for more than 20 years and has extensively researched the so-called cattle mutilations and other related phenomena for quite some time. She has a book out entitled 'An Alien Harvest' and several videos including 'A Strange Harvest,' 'Earth Mysteries,' and 'Cropcircle Communique.' She was in a very good mood during her lecture. She can be reached via P.O. Box 538 Huntingdon Valley, PA 19006-0538, (215) 938-7869, FAX (215) 938-0787. Do not bother her unless it is very important.) ------- We are living in lies. Of those persons recalling UFO encounters or related visitations, about 25 percent do not need any hypnosis or regression for memory recall. The UFO/alien phenomena is very real and very confusing. The best way to think about it is to classify these craft and entities as being physical, or interdimensional, or a combination of both, or some other type of form that we do not understand. There exist very many physical characteristic types of aliens. There may be over 100 different physical characteristic different types of aliens out there. It has been said that 54 of these different types belong to the Federation that is caring for Earth. There are also 3 not-so-good types that are interacting with Earth and performing their various experiments and studies. These 3 groups include the small greys, as depicted in the movie Communion (available at tape rental stores). Many descriptions have been obtained from witnesses. Here is listing of the various types from how they looked to the witnesses: 1. Small Grey, short, about 4 feet tall. Large almond shaped black eyes and grey body with four long fingers. Seem to be the workers and some sort of biological robots. Insect like with Chlorophyll in their blood. Black eye coverings have been seen to be removable like single goggles lens to reveal a vertical slit cat-like or snake-like eye design. Garment patches seem to be a triangle with a crescent moon or circle with a crescent moon and flame design. 2. Larger Brown/Grey, taller, about 5 feet tall. Tan skinned, color of cardboard. Seem to be the doctors. They carry a small black box usually on a belt. the box controls the subjects, knock-out or paralysis, and the environment. 3. Larger Grey, about 5 feet tall. Another scientist type. Has a right breast patch with an equilateral triangle (dark blue) inscribed within a (light blue) circle. 4. Human-type, about 6-7 feet, blond and blue eyes. Cat-like eyes (although some claim to have seen ones just like us). No sclera (white part of eyes), solid blue. Some have seen yellow eyes with vertical black slits. Breast patch seen is circular with two triangles intersecting (like David's 6-pointed star pulled apart upward half way), or a V intersecting an upside-down V in a circle. 5. Human-type with a large beaked-nose and vertical slits. These are the types that are reported to have visited with Eisenhower at Holoman AFB in 1964 during his 'dentist visit' as announced to the press (no dentist in the area ever saw him). 3-5 cameras are reported to have filmed the event. Military security. Also, there are references to a skull cap worn by some, like a tight-fitting swim cap with a portion that curls down around the ear like 3/4 circular sideburns; cap is blue and trimmed on the edge with gold. William Cooper has said he has seen one of these. 6. Cross between a human and a reptilian monster, with yellow eyes on white sclera with black vertical slits. Seems to always be in a leadership role and controls the situations. 7. Various monster-like beings. One is very hairy, has very round eyes, and feet looking like the trunk of a tree. Others are large and small ape-like creatures. All are up to 6-7 feet tall. (Some one in the audience recognized a drawing as the "Moth Man." 8. Men in Black Suits, with very-slanted eyes. Not normal humans. 9. Insect-like beings. Intelligent. Various forms. 10. Praying Mantis Type. Large. 6-7 feet tall. Large yellow head with glowing halo. Seems to be master-in-charge. Perceptions of witnesses is that he/she is very old, very ancient, and very sad. Visitations of various beings have come from out of physical craft, inside closed buildings, and from out-of-the-air. One case was inside an upstairs New York City apartment. The emergence of the greys and others can appear like a flower or tear is opening up from somewhere else into our reality in a portal-type fashion. Also many reports of lots of small greys materializing as they are slowly floating down to the ground. Also, a story of a man who when 7 year old gave his consent for his body to be used. Later, in mid-30s, he is repeatedly visited and has sex with a large human/grey-type cross female. He is eventually shown a room with lots (maybe hundreds) of drawer-type glass paneled chambers, each with a human/grey or grey/human type baby. He is told they are all his. His physically touching them is very important to the health of the babies and he voluntarily does so. ------- The animal mutilations are world-wide. They have been reported for over twenty-five years, and for all of the cases that Linda knows of there has been only one cause of death on the certificates: Cause: Unknown. In all of the strange cases: Complete lack of blood, lack of any moisture around the affected areas. (Maybe no blood in the animal, but I did not hear her say that.) Cows have partial jaws, genitals, and rectum areas removed. Jaws have always the same teeth and molars removed. The jaw bone areas are completely clean down to the bone. Cuts are cleaner and better than any laser she knows of. Analysis shows evidence of very high temperature clotting of blood above 300 Deg.. F (lakes of dark patches in blood under microscope). Some have had their tail removed. Some have had individual teats (nipples) removed with extreme scientific precision. All researchers agree that most of the cuts look like 'cookie-cutter' type cuts: precise, straight, clean. She summarized the story of Bob Lazar. He has his own videotape out now. See Lazar BBS notices for details on him and the alien disks in Area 51, site S-4 in Nevada that are being researched or back-engineered by the US 'government.' (Good luck. I think this is like giving a PT boat to Columbus and his Queen.) There was reference to a person who asked her if she knew of the 'Earth Secret War.' Is there a war going on around or about Earth? Does it involve the cloning of human beings? She doesn't know. Do you? One fact seem clear to Linda: Earth seems to be a focal point for life forms in the Universe. She feels the alien phenomena is very confusing and complex, and she is planning to publish a book with the pictures of the alien types she showed. She feels it is important that certain people be allowed to research and understand what is happening. She also told me directly that she feels most people do not really want to know what is really happening. She feels that if a person was to find out, that they would never be the same and could (maybe) not live their life the same again. I feel those that are ready to find out have the right and the space to find out.) She concluded with the question: What would you say to a person to explain all of this in a way that covers all of these facts and is not detrimental to the person. She gave a great talk and is a very organized and capable speaker. All of her information is substantiated and she does not interject her own ideas, just facts. Very well done. ------- My comments: Underneath it all, she really feels the release of all of the complete information she knows must wait until it is placed in the proper form or religion so people can absorb it without becoming upset. That makes her equally on par with 'government' suppression. For those that are ready to hear, I request private meetings be made available with those that wish to hear. For those that are not ready to hear, great. For more information on an explanation on how all of this makes sense in a non-threatening way, I suggest you read the summary transcripts from the group called the Pleiadians that in are Connecting Link magazine, 4808 Broadmore SE, Grand Rapids, MI 49512, (616) 698-2690, (800) 426- 3963. I will write up my summary of that explanation and send it to Linda as well as post it for you under the title of 'An Explanation for Howe.' ******* ----- End Included Message ----- ----- End Included Message ----- Path: ns-mx!uunet!van-bc!ubc-cs!mprgate.mpr.ca!mprgate.mpr.ca!spani From: spani@mprgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Hypnosis in Abduction Studies Message-ID: <1992Apr27.235712.9649@mprgate.mpr.ca> Date: 27 Apr 92 23:57:12 GMT References: <1992Apr27.212305.15079@news.unomaha.edu> Sender: news@mprgate.mpr.ca Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada Lines: 71 In article <1992Apr27.212305.15079@news.unomaha.edu>, STONE@Zeus.unomaha.edu (Travis R. Stone) writes: |> In Article #3771, crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu---whomever you are, |> sir or madame---made a point about the validity of hypnosis as a |> tool for researching possible abduction cases. The mention of |> hypnosis puts me in mind of the most atrocious book on hypnotically- |> uncovered abduction experiences I think I've ever read---a piece of |> tripe by some person called Edith Fiore, Ph.D, the title of which |> escapes me at the moment ("Encounters", maybe?) and which serves as a |> masterful example of how to ask blatantly leading questions. Things |> like "do you remember being taken up by the aliens into their space- |> ship?" and "do you think the aliens were trying to cure your |> hemmorhoids?" and "try to recall the first moment when the ET's |> kidnapped you." |> |> Talk about "poisoning the well." Ah yes... "Encounters - A Psychologist Reveals Case Studies of Abductions" by Edith Fiore, PH.D. You are absolutely right about this book. I like to think of it as the best example of sesationalism and misuse of therapy I have found. To be fair, Doctor Fiore does mention that her goal is to "help" her patients rather than validate their claims. My favorite part of the book is her interesting chapter titles like chapter 2 "They Put Something in My Rectum" and chapter 17 "... The Evidence Can No Longer Be Squelched". |> |> As far as hypnosis itself goes, can one really lend much weight to |> what it retrieves in regard to these supposed "abductions" (remember, |> folks---nothing has been definitely proven one way OR the other as |> to the existence of EBE's) when it has been demonstrated to be of |> dubious reliability under far less psychologically stressful |> conditions (recalling license plate numbers, the color of a bank |> robber's blazer, etc.)? What I mean to say is, if it's spotty for |> something as simple as helping someone to recall a plate number, |> how good is it going to be in helping someone recall his kidnap and |> medical examination by a mob of pug-ugly little grey men from Cygnus |> Minor?...... Similar little details would be hard to remember through hypnosis in an abduction regression (The UFOs license number , the colour of one of the abductor's blazer ;-). What I am trying to say is that the *details* of a recalled abduction would be as unreliable as the *details* of a recalled bank heist. When you take into account that a bank heist would likely be remembered consiously before the hypnosis, and the abduction would likely not be remembered, you open up a whole new can of worms, but for abductions where the abduction event was partially consiously recalled before the hypnosis, I see no reason to discount the actual *event* (with due caution about the details recovered). Of course, an abduction rarely has supporting witnesses as would a bank heist ;^) |> |> T.R. Stone |> University of Nebraska-Omaha |> Home of the Toughest Organic Chemistry Instructors in the Galaxy |> (whether you hypnotize them or not.) |> -- *********************************************************************** | Leonard E. Spani | //!?\\ | (disclaimer-p) | | spani@mprgate.mpr.ca | \\?!// | t | *********************************************************************** Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!ut-emx!ibmchs!auschs!awdprime.austin.ibm.com!woofer.austin.ibm.com!jlpicard From: jlpicard@woofer.austin.ibm.com (Craig Becker) Newsgroups: sci.astro,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: An idea how ETs could solve the source direction prob. of SETI Message-ID: <1992Apr27.141638.23214@awdprime.austin.ibm.com> Date: 27 Apr 92 14:16:38 GMT References: <1992Apr25.004513.20341@news.unomaha.edu> Sender: usenet@awdprime.austin.ibm.com (USENET News) Reply-To: craigb@ot.austin.ibm.com Organization: IBM Object Technology Products Lines: 29 Xref: ns-mx sci.astro:16671 alt.alien.visitors:5457 leo@zelator.in-berlin.de (Stefan Hartmann) writes: > > Do You really think, that ETs are using still radio waves to communicate > in interstellar space ?? > > I think an ET race, which has the technology to visit other planets light > years ahead, must have a better communication system than radio waves, > which only travel at the speed at light ! > > There must(!!!!!) be something much faster !!! Ideally, but not necessarily. > So it is still a pitty, when some scientists still look out with their > big radio teleskops for alien radio pulses ! > > Gee, guys, You are wasting Your times !!!!! Well, I guess the question I'd like to ask is: what other, better medium should we be investigating? Are we just supposed to sit on our hands and do nothing because we don't know how to build an ansible? In the immortal words of Harry Chapin: "It's better to do something than nothing." Craig -- "To every man is given the Craig Becker, Object Technology Products -- -- key to the gates of heaven; Internet: craigb@ot.austin.ibm.com -- -- the same key opens the gates Austin: craigb@woofer.austin.ibm.com -- -- of hell" - Buddhist proverb VNET: CRAIGB at AUSVM1 -- Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ucla-cs!ucla-se!seashell!mitch From: mitch@seashell.seas.ucla.edu (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin)) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <6820@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> Date: 28 Apr 92 00:13:44 GMT References: <1992Apr23.193015.6114@rosevax.rosemount.com> Sender: news@SEAS.UCLA.EDU Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Distribution: na Organization: SEASnet, University of California, Los Angeles Lines: 46 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5458 alt.conspiracy:14529 sci.skeptic:23094 alt.paranormal:4863 In article <1992Apr23.193015.6114@rosevax.rosemount.com> grante@aquarius (Grant Edwards) writes: >ingria@bbn.com (Bob Ingria) writes: >: In article <0-7jp1r.barry@netcom.com> barry@netcom.com (Kenn Barry) writes: >: >: There is also the dual of paranoia, erotomania. This is the >: delusionary belief that there is a conspiracy to do good things for >: you, or that some powerful figure is in love with you (secretly, of >: course) and manipulating affairs behind the scenes to help you. >: > >Sounds like most of the people on the talk shows on channel 14. It >used to be the Christian Broadcasting Network, now it's called >something a bit milder (the Family Channel?) but it's as inane as >ever. > >The powerful figure that manipulates things to help them is god, and >they give him credit for all sorts of stupid things. Of course. Obviously, anyone who harbors any religious beliefs is by definition psychotic, and should be locked up. We moderns are fortunate to be so intellectually sophisticated; we can reject all this metaphysical nonsense out of hand, because we _know_ that our subjective, physical reality (as revealed to us by our five senses) is truly the only reality. And if anyone dares to make us uncomfortable by suggesting otherwise, why we can just reach for our large bag of labels and brand them as "psychotic" or "delusionary", and call their suggestions "extraordinary claims" (After all, we can't take time from our accepted intellectual pursuits to investigate something that "everyone knows" is bogus. Besides, it wouldn't look too good on our _curriculum vitae_, and might threaten our chances for tenure.) Why do I get the strong impression that some of these self-proclaimed skeptics are just nerds who are trying too hard to emulate their hero, the rational, logical, unemotional Mr. Spock? Grow up; the universe is huge, and the sum of our knowledge is infinitesimal, if not negligible. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCLAIMER: "Don't blame _me_, _I_ didn't do it!" --Krusty the Clown "Ididn'tdoitnobodysawmeyoucan'tproveanything!" --Bartman Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!acsu.buffalo.edu!ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu!v129j6ed From: v129j6ed@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Caught Between the Love and the Anger..) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <1992Apr28.011607.24647@acsu.buffalo.edu> Date: 28 Apr 92 02:15:00 GMT References: <1992Apr23.193015.6114@rosevax.rosemount.com> <6820@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> Sender: usenet@acsu.buffalo.edu Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Distribution: na Organization: University at Buffalo Lines: 28 News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Nntp-Posting-Host: ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu In article <6820@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU>, mitch@seashell.seas.ucla.edu (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin)) writes... >In article <1992Apr23.193015.6114@rosevax.rosemount.com> grante@aquarius (Grant Edwards) writes: >>ingria@bbn.com (Bob Ingria) writes: >Why do I get the strong impression that some of these self-proclaimed >skeptics are just nerds who are trying too hard to emulate their >hero, the rational, logical, unemotional Mr. Spock? My hero was always Kirk. ;) I was willing to listen to Mr. StollMan, giving him the benefit of my doubt, then I read that these doubles are switching with the real people, who keep coming back, and then switched again and again. Either the aliens are REAL DUMB AS SH!T or his state is false. ******************************************************************************* "Groovy!" - Ash "Evil Dead II : Dead By Dawn" (1987) ******************************************************************************* "Fans are interesting things. Rush fans just can't comprehend why the rest of the world doesn't like Rush. REM fans consider the rest of the world beneath their social level to notice. Kate Bush fans love the rest of the world, and the world loves them, but spend long nights plotting to knife one another." --Richard Darwin Richard Darwin #33, "Gradenza" ******************************************************************************* "It's Nothing. It's just a private joke between me and whoever is going to be my analyst." - Cary Grant "Mr. Blandings Builds His Dream House" (1948) ******************************************************************************* v129j6ed@ubvms The KaTeFan(tm) Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!acsu.buffalo.edu!ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu!v129j6ed From: v129j6ed@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (A DoppelGanger.) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <1992Apr28.012603.25026@acsu.buffalo.edu> Date: 28 Apr 92 02:25:00 GMT References: <1992Apr23.193015.6114@rosevax.rosemount.com> <6820@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> <1992Apr28.011607.24647@acsu.buffalo.edu> Sender: v129j6ed@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Caught Between the Love and the Anger..) Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Distribution: na Organization: University at Buffalo Lines: 34 News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Nntp-Posting-Host: ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu In article <1992Apr28.011607.24647@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v129j6ed@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Caught Between the Love and the Anger..) writes... >In article <6820@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU>, mitch@seashell.seas.ucla.edu (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin)) writes... >>In article <1992Apr23.193015.6114@rosevax.rosemount.com> grante@aquarius (Grant Edwards) writes: >>>ingria@bbn.com (Bob Ingria) writes: >>Why do I get the strong impression that some of these self-proclaimed >>skeptics are just nerds who are trying too hard to emulate their >>hero, the rational, logical, unemotional Mr. Spock? > >My hero was always Kirk. ;) >I was willing to listen to Mr. StollMan, giving him the benefit of >my doubt, then I read that these doubles are switching with the real >people, who keep coming back, and then switched again and again. >Either the aliens are REAL DUMB AS SH!T or his state is false. I rescind this statement. There are no aliens. Spock was the MAN, Kirk was a wimp. ******************************************************************************* "Groovy!" - Ash "Evil Dead II : Dead By Dawn" (1987) ******************************************************************************* "Fans are interesting things. Rush fans just can't comprehend why the rest of the world doesn't like Rush. REM fans consider the rest of the world beneath their social level to notice. Kate Bush fans love the rest of the world, and the world loves them, but spend long nights plotting to knife one another." --Richard Darwin Richard Darwin #33, "Gradenza" ******************************************************************************* "It's Nothing. It's just a private joke between me and whoever is going to be my analyst." - Cary Grant "Mr. Blandings Builds His Dream House" (1948) ******************************************************************************* v129j6ed@ubvms The KaTeFan(tm) Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!acsu.buffalo.edu!ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu!v129j6ed From: v129j6ed@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Caught Between the Love and the Anger..) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <1992Apr28.013012.25124@acsu.buffalo.edu> Date: 28 Apr 92 02:29:00 GMT References: <1992Apr23.193015.6114@rosevax.rosemount.com> <6820@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> <1992Apr28.012603.25026@acsu.buffalo.edu> Sender: usenet@acsu.buffalo.edu Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Distribution: na Organization: University at Buffalo Lines: 40 News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Nntp-Posting-Host: ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu In article <1992Apr28.012603.25026@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v129j6ed@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (A DoppelGanger.) writes... >In article <1992Apr28.011607.24647@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v129j6ed@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Caught Between the Love and the Anger..) writes... >>In article <6820@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU>, mitch@seashell.seas.ucla.edu (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin)) writes... >>>In article <1992Apr23.193015.6114@rosevax.rosemount.com> grante@aquarius (Grant Edwards) writes: >>>>ingria@bbn.com (Bob Ingria) writes: >>>Why do I get the strong impression that some of these self-proclaimed >>>skeptics are just nerds who are trying too hard to emulate their >>>hero, the rational, logical, unemotional Mr. Spock? >> >>My hero was always Kirk. ;) >>I was willing to listen to Mr. StollMan, giving him the benefit of >>my doubt, then I read that these doubles are switching with the real >>people, who keep coming back, and then switched again and again. >>Either the aliens are REAL DUMB AS SH!T or his state is false. > >I rescind this statement. >There are no aliens. >Spock was the MAN, Kirk was a wimp. I really mean that Gary Stollman has a problem, or we are dealing with real dumb stupid aliens. My point may be done in an idiodic fashion, but without proof Gary, how can we take you seriously? I am may not be a doctor, but you definately need a shot of 4 HOURS of Kate Bush. You may not recover, but it is excellent!!! ******************************************************************************* "Groovy!" - Ash "Evil Dead II : Dead By Dawn" (1987) ******************************************************************************* "Fans are interesting things. Rush fans just can't comprehend why the rest of the world doesn't like Rush. REM fans consider the rest of the world beneath their social level to notice. Kate Bush fans love the rest of the world, and the world loves them, but spend long nights plotting to knife one another." --Richard Darwin Richard Darwin #33, "Gradenza" ******************************************************************************* "It's Nothing. It's just a private joke between me and whoever is going to be my analyst." - Cary Grant "Mr. Blandings Builds His Dream House" (1948) ******************************************************************************* v129j6ed@ubvms The KaTeFan(tm) Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!anasaz!qip!billy From: billy@anasaz (Bill Moore) Newsgroups: talk.bizarre,soc.rights.alien,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: A question. Keywords: moon Message-ID: <1992Apr27.221031.11212@anasaz> Date: 27 Apr 92 22:10:31 GMT References: <11617@borg.cs.unc.edu> Organization: Anasazi, Inc. Phoenix, Az Lines: 12 Xref: ns-mx talk.bizarre:56754 alt.alien.visitors:5462 In article carasso@netcom.com (RDC) writes: ->gstimp@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Gary Stimpson) writes: ->> ->>WHY in the world would anybody want to go to the moon? -> ->Moonbabes. -> Moonpies! -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bill Moore billy%anasaz.UUCP@asuvax.eas.asu.edu (602) 395-1732 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!anasaz!qip!billy From: billy@anasaz (Bill Moore) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: A new TV show? Message-ID: <1992Apr27.221532.11728@anasaz> Date: 27 Apr 92 22:15:32 GMT References: Organization: Anasazi, Inc. Phoenix, Az Lines: 19 In article gstimp@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Gary Stimpson) writes: ->Sitting infront of the TV at around 2am last night, I came across the end ->of a commerical for "INTRUDERS" This man said something like, "After ->see'ing this, you WILL believe!" Hmm.. wonder what it is? Anybody know? ->It was on WJBK CBS. Thought it might be some new UFO show.. -> A two part mini-series adapted from Bud Hopkins book beginning in about 3 weeks. Supposed to be well done with good special effects. Significance is that CBS is using a UFO show as their main sweeps week attraction. > >;--- (Gary Stimpson) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64 >;E-mail: gstimp@sys6626.bison.mb.ca >;system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bill Moore billy%anasaz.UUCP@asuvax.eas.asu.edu (602) 395-1732 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!van-bc!ubc-cs!mprgate.mpr.ca!mprgate.mpr.ca!spani From: spani@mprgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Linda Moulton Howe: Cattle Mutilations and Human Abductions Message-ID: <1992Apr28.011324.10761@mprgate.mpr.ca> Date: 28 Apr 92 01:13:24 GMT References: <9204272305.AA23625@echidna.swdc.stratus.com> Sender: news@mprgate.mpr.ca Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada Lines: 93 In article <9204272305.AA23625@echidna.swdc.stratus.com>, lpb@STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM (Len Bucuvalas) writes: |> |> |> |> ******* |> |> SUMMARY OF LECTURE BY |> Linda Moulton Howe |> San Francisco Whole Life Expo |> 10-Noon, April 25, 1992 |> |> ------- |> [ lots of interesting stuff deleted ] |> |> |> She also told me directly that she feels most people do not really want |> to know what is really happening. She feels that if a person was to |> find out, that they would never be the same and could (maybe) not live |> their life the same again. I feel those that are ready to find out have |> the right and the space to find out.) |> I am getting real tired of the old "I can't give out conclusive evidence because people would get upset" line. If she does have any evidence to back up her claims she should make it available. I have an open mind, but I'm not stupid enough to fall for this *every* time ;^) [...] |> My comments: |> |> Underneath it all, she really feels the release of all of the complete |> information she knows must wait until it is placed in the proper form or ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ |> religion so people can absorb it without becoming upset. That makes her ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ |> equally on par with 'government' suppression. Good lord... this is a great way to start a big-money cult, but about the shitiest way of dealing with "research" I know of. Are you sure she really feels the way you interpreted her to feel ;^) |> |> For those that are ready to hear, I request private meetings be made |> available with those that wish to hear. |> |> For those that are not ready to hear, great. |> Why private meetings? Could she not post her information to the net? A private meeting is a little too costly for me anyway (unless she happens to be in Vancouver.) |> For more information on an explanation on how all of this makes sense in |> a non-threatening way, I suggest you read the summary transcripts from |> the group called the Pleiadians that in are Connecting Link magazine, |> 4808 Broadmore SE, Grand Rapids, MI 49512, (616) 698-2690, (800) 426- |> 3963. It seems to me like you are using Linda's information (and her name) to push you own cause or beliefs. Yes? |> |> I will write up my summary of that explanation and send it to Linda as |> well as post it for you under the title of 'An Explanation for Howe.' Be sure to post Linda's response. |> |> ******* -- *********************************************************************** | Leonard E. Spani | //!?\\ | (disclaimer-p) | | spani@mprgate.mpr.ca | \\?!// | t | *********************************************************************** Path: ns-mx!uunet!boulder!ucsu!hoza From: hoza@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (HOZA MARK R) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: new TV show Message-ID: <1992Apr28.012228.9575@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> Date: 28 Apr 92 01:22:28 GMT References: <1992Apr27.091756.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder Lines: 16 crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu writes: >According to *UFO Magazine* in a section called Media Watch, *Intruders* will >be a CBS miniseries which (they say) "we've been informed does NOT really >have a character based on Budd Hopkins. Just the title and a *certain element* >were purchased from Hopkins. * The male lead, played by Richard Crenna, is >really >a conglomerate of UFO personalities, says someone in the know. At any rate, >it may air around 14-18 May, I don't have the exact dates. "Intruders will be airing on CBS Sunday, May 17 and Tuesday, May 19. I guess it is going to be 2 hours each night. I got this information off of a local MUFON NET relay, so I think that it is probably accurate. Mark Hoza Boulder, CO Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!yale.edu!jvnc.net!darwin.sura.net!ukma!widener!eff!world!Costanza From: Costanza@world.std.com (Peter Costanza) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Mach6 spy plane Summary: stealth jump jet Keywords: spy ufo plane Message-ID: Date: 28 Apr 92 01:47:05 GMT Expires: Sat, 30 May 1992 04:00:00 GMT References: <1992Apr13.153114.18290@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> <1992Apr14.173456.1052@tellab5.tellabs.com> <1992Apr22.141443.19115@stephsf.com> Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA Lines: 9 An acquaintance of mine in upstate New York recently saw an aircraft that he thought was a spaceship. It was shaped like a regular airplane but instead of regular wings had two massive shapes on each side of the central fuselage; the shapes were on the end of what appeared to be very short connecting "wings" on either side of the fuselage. He said it made a loud whining or humming sound, moved very slowly and then zoomed away. It's general description made me wonder whether it was a stealth version of a jump-jet (like the Harrier) with hover capability. There is a major airbase in the area. Sighting was late at night over a residential area. Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!ames!sgi!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: M.U.F.O.N. Journal Message-ID: <1992Apr28.035807.28808@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: 28 Apr 92 03:58:07 GMT Sender: news@odin.corp.sgi.com (Net News) Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. Lines: 22 Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com Hello all; Thanks for all the e-mail concerning just what M.U.F.O.N. is all about. I just got off the phone with the international director of M.U.F.O.N.,Walt Andrus & he said it was ok to publish the info on the internet. The journal has access to & publishes UFO sighting reports from all over the world as investigated by M.U.F.O.N.'s international liaison represenatives & investigators. It has a staff of reporters & columists second to none in the U.F.O. publishing field.Guest writers include members of M.U.F.O.N.'s advisory board of consultants,most of whom possess doctorates in their respective fields of expertise. The journal is our most significant means of sharing details of U.F.O. sightings reports & vital information related to the U.F.O. phenomenon with our members around the world.The M.U.F.O.N. U.F.O. Journal (successor to SKYLOOK founded in 1967) has established itself as the leading monthly U.F.O. magazine in the world today.(24 or more pages monthly) A subscription to the journal is included in the annual M.U.F.O.N. membership dues of $25.00 in the U.S.A. & $30.00 in foreign countries.Payment of foreign membership/subsciption must be in the form of international postal money order,a check written against an U.S. bank having electronic coding,or cash in U.S. dollars.A sample copy of the journal may be obtained for $2.50 M.U.F.O.N. Mutual U.F.O. Network, Inc. 103 Oldtowne Road Seguin,Texas 78155-4099 U.S.A. Thanks, Rod Beckwith -- Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance, rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge. |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!andromeda.rutgers.edu!mccabe From: mccabe@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Chris Mccabe) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Question on physics of ufo mechanics Keywords: curious Message-ID: Date: 28 Apr 92 04:42:34 GMT Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 13 The other day I was explaining to some friends how I had heard stories about scientists actually building some sort of device that could levitate off the ground. Apparrently, the device was based on some sort of electromagnetic principles (I think). Anyway, I went on to explain how, once the device (which had been resting on some sort of scale) was activated, the weight of the scale went down, and the device proceeded to levitate off the scale. Now, my friends had a problem with this because they pointed out that the scale should not have lost weight since the device has to push downward with the same or greater force to lift up (like a helicoptor). Is this point valid? Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!warwick!kingpol!titan.kingston.ac.uk!as_m332 From: as_m332@titan.kingston.ac.uk Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Serious research Message-ID: <1992Apr28.100457.1@titan.kingston.ac.uk> Date: 28 Apr 92 09:04:57 GMT Sender: news@kingston.ac.uk (Network News) Organization: Vic20 Appreciation Society Lines: 22 Nntp-Posting-Host: tamara In <1992Apr24.142809.3278@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> cfkfb@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Karl Bridges) writes: > Isn't it time that there be a new group established i.e. >alt.ufo.research for those who are seriously interested in what's going >on as a scientific/sociological phenomenon. Paranoid drug induced >fantasies are, for those interested, OK, but that's all that ever >appears here. We need less from the lunatic fringe and more from some >serious research. A good idea, but unfortunately, any news group with the name "ufo" or "alien" in the title will attract unwanted postings from the new age fraternity, and other fringe subjects like moths to a light. It's a pity they can't stick to their own groups, and leave this group free for serious discussion. -Sean. -- Sean Eaton. Mathematics, Kingston Poly. as_m332@titan.kingston.ac.uk or warlock%spuddy@uknet.ac.uk Path: ns-mx!uunet!zephyr.ens.tek.com!uw-beaver!ubc-cs!alberta!camrose!acad2.alaska.edu!asljl From: asljl@acad2.alaska.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space Subject: FLORIDA GROUP CONTACT THE FEDERATION Message-ID: <1992Apr27.123437.1@acad2.alaska.edu> Date: 27 Apr 92 16:34:37 GMT Sender: news@raven.alaska.edu (USENET News System) Organization: University of Alaska Lines: 25 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5470 sci.space:29418 Nntp-Posting-Host: acad2.alaska.edu ATTENTION FLORIDA GROUP OF THE UNIVERISTY OF FLORIDA!!!!! THIS IS THE FEDERATION CALLING !!!!! PLEASE RESPOND. This Account will be expire in four weeks. We are trying to reach a Andy C. there. He was chosen to speak for a group of about 200. I recieved a message from him about 2 weeks ago and have heard nothing since. Please Answer. We would like to start a Us mail correspondence. Here is our address. Lady Rhavyn po.box.231772 anchorage, alaska, 99523-1772 If you are going to correspond with us mail please let us know. We know you wished names unused, but we have not headr from you . Vital information stands by to be sent for the strat of the project we discussed. Please Respond as soon as possible. We wish to start. And we wish to give you as much as we have available. We can no longer post information due to this universities restrictions. Please contact us so we can get going. urgently signed Lady Rhavyn. Keep The faith, And Peace be with you all. Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!IASTATE.EDU!danwell From: danwell@IASTATE.EDU (Daniel A Ashlock) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Strawman: an example (was: INVASION) Message-ID: <1992Apr28.083040@IASTATE.EDU> Date: 28 Apr 92 13:30:40 GMT References: <1992Apr23.193015.6114@rosevax.rosemount.com> <6820@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System) Reply-To: danwell@IASTATE.EDU (Daniel A Ashlock) Distribution: na Organization: Iowa State University Lines: 51 In article <6820@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU>, mitch@seashell.seas.ucla.edu (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin)) writes: [stuff from UFO thread deleted] > Of course. Obviously, anyone who harbors any religious beliefs is > by definition psychotic, and should be locked up. Absoutively! S> We moderns are fortunate to be so intellectually sophisticated; we T> can reject all this metaphysical nonsense out of hand, because R> we _know_ that our subjective, physical reality (as revealed to A> us by our five senses) is truly the only reality. And if anyone W> dares to make us uncomfortable by suggesting otherwise, why we > can just reach for our large bag of labels and brand them as M> "psychotic" or "delusionary", and call their suggestions "extraordinary A> claims" (After all, we can't take time from our accepted intellectual N> pursuits to investigate something that "everyone knows" is bogus. > Besides, it wouldn't look too good on our _curriculum vitae_, and > might threaten our chances for tenure.) This is _not_ the method of skeptics... >Why do I get the strong impression that some of these self-proclaimed >skeptics are just nerds who are trying too hard to emulate their >hero, the rational, logical, unemotional Mr. Spock? Well, _my_ hero is Thomas Jefferson. > Grow up; the universe is huge, and the sum of our knowledge > is infinitesimal, if not negligible. Where do they grow these people, abandoned sound stages in Burbank California? Thanks, Bob, for demonstrating both straw men and grotesque overgeneralization in one post. Now, the beef. I don't think _any_ skeptic believes what comes in through his senses and nothing else... I listen to my dreams which contain answers concocted by some part of myself that is _not_ under my concious control. I listen to my memory which contains information gathered by thousands of different humans, each with their own perspective, and often using synthetic senses that can see gamma rays, neutrinos, or the distant past. I listen most of all to my carefully cultivated reason which can sift out hidden information or find inconsistencies in the arguments of those who _will not_ train their most useful "sense". Dan Danwell@IASTATE.EDU Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!warwick!mrccrc!mrccrc!sgamble From: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: JACQUES VALLEE LECTURES IN UK Message-ID: <1992Apr28.125859.27737@crc.ac.uk> Date: 28 Apr 92 12:58:59 GMT References: <1992Apr21.164310.2362@crc.ac.uk> <92113.092753A410JACQ@HASARA11.BITNET> Sender: news@crc.ac.uk Reply-To: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) Organization: MRC Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Harrow, UK Lines: 23 Nntp-Posting-Host: germanium In article <92113.092753A410JACQ@HASARA11.BITNET>, A410JACQ@HASARA11.BITNET (Jacqueline Cote) writes: > Hmmm hadn't Vallee given up his belief in little green men and hadn't > he gone back to Astrophysics? He still publishes in magazines like > Astronomy and Astrophysics. Or are there TWO Jacques' Vallee? > > Jacqueline From what I recall of his lecture last Friday, Jacques became disillusioned with the extraterrestrial explanation for UFO phenomena around 1980. He said that he was very concerned about the route other US researchers were following and wanted to investigate other possibilities. He was fairly critical of much of abduction research. So it might be true to say he has given up belief in little green men. The result of these researches are described in his three books Dimensions, Confrontations and, most recently, Revelations. As to if he still writes about astrophysics I do not know Steve. -- (Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!) Steve Gamble, Computing Services, Clinical Research Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK. Phone: 081 869 3293 JANET: s.gamble@uk.ac.crc INTERNET: s.gamble@crc.ac.uk Path: ns-mx!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!Don_-_Showen From: Don_-_Showen@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors Subject: What is going on - The Pleiadians 4 Message-ID: <58126@cup.portal.com> Date: 28 Apr 92 14:58:59 GMT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 296 Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:10120 sci.skeptic:23127 alt.alien.visitors:5473 FYI Last year I offered email transcripts of the Pleiadian tapes entitled Harmonics of Frequency Response and the Human DNA. Over 135 net folks requested copies. Many replied that they enjoyed them and asked for more. Barbra Marciniak requested that I stop sending out that title as she is selling the printed transcript now. She and the editor of Connecting Link magazine did gave me permission to scan and post the Pleiadian Connecting Link articles. So I will be posting a new one every week or two. Don Showen ISSUE 4 Conversation With The Pleiadians Excerpted from the tape: "WHAT IS GOING ON." We are here. It has come to our attention most recently that there are questions [about] this speaking of extraterrestrials and other beings through human vehicles. Many are in great question about this. Many desire this for themselves. Many doubt the validity of the happening. We would like to discuss this because what you are preparing yourselves for is your own experiences along these lines. This process is available to many. The broadcastings that are going out from the areas outside of your planet, that are circling your planet, that are being sent from various extraterrestrial energies, are in the air. You, or any, can pick this up if you learn how to tune in to vibrations that are looking for the transmitter. As you act as [a] receiver to receive this vibration, you transmit this energy to others. There may seem to be in this phenomenon called channeling, a variety of information, personalities, characters. This is as it should be because humanities are all unique. They each have their own stamp of identity, the song that their soul sings that brings them into being. And so, each one that will tune in to these electromagnetic wave lengths can interpret what they are hearing according to who they are. Some may feel that they need to study and work very hard before they are ready or in preparation for this. But another, who lives quite simply and is totally unaware of any sort of New Age happening can one day, simply by being themselves, by trusting, living in the moment, believing in a world that is safe and uplifting, stretch their consciousness and quite naturally tune in to ideas and information that they know is coming from other portions outside of themselves. The individual, of course, affects to a certain extent, the type of information that is perceived. You, yourselves, know that humanities speak out their beliefs about themselves. [Beliefs] somewhat affect this sort of communication [channeling], so there will always be a certain bit of distortion. If we were speaking for ten of your years and the vehicle was aligned, there would still be a distortion of information because there would still be territory and experience that would be beyond the vehicle's comprehension. You are third dimensional beings, quite rooted in your ideas and your beliefs about yourselves. You are attempting to change this idea but society as a whole is quite convinced that you are all solid beings and the world is a solid place. And so, what is occurring is that as you grow, as you alter your perceptions of who you think you are, [there] is always an expansion that lies further. At present, your experiences are limited as to what you think can be. When you learn to tune in to your own channelings, when you learn to, if you so desire, speak of the vibrations that are within the air, or to allow and invite groups of entities or your Higher Selves to speak through you, you will have a greater perception of the dualities that exist within third dimensional experience. As you learn to give legitimacy to something that does not, cannot be colored in this way, new questions will arise within yourselves. It takes a while to get used to new experiences, and then one acclimates and adjusts. However, even if you were to do this continually, there is always an adjustment. There is always some new perception of being that you will be attempting to fit into where you presently are. We share this with you so that you do not allow yourself to move into great frustration with your experiences. Many of you are anxious, many of you are excited. Many of you are concerned about changes that are occurring within yourselves and on the planet as well. It is important to place these anxieties and concerns in the proper perspective. Allow yourselves to be. Do not continually project yourself in anticipation of what lies ahead. Be in your present moment of experience. That moment will unfold continuously into future moments which will perhaps hold answers to your questions from the present. You have heard us speak that there is a great polarization that is taking place on your planet. The call has gone out, and within the physical vehicles of many on your planet there is a resonating, a pre-coded chord that has been struck within the souls of certain members of mankind, and they are arising themselves, stretching their being, looking around and waking themselves up in great numbers. There are those who are here to teach, who are here to help others remember, and there are those who refuse, and who will become hardened, and who will become quite rigid in their beliefs, in their understandings. It is this polarization that is occurring at this time. The world is not solid as your scientists claim it to be. No more than you are solid beings. You must understand this on some level. Learn to feel what we are saying, for that is indeed what this is about, for you to feel what we are telling you, not for you to think it out and to rationalize it, but to feel which world that you are in. Feel how you move through a world that you create and that dances for you, dances to the tune of your thoughts, dances to the song of your being. For you are, as we always gently remind you, a result of your thought manifestations. This understanding, this knowledge, is growing very deeply within you. We are asking you now, you who we cherish very dearly, to carry within you this understanding. You are creating in each and every moment a new world, because you yourselves know that a new world is forming, and that you are bringing more and more members of humanity onto this world. That is a portion of what is going on. You each are great participants, you each are great designers in this experience. You each are learning how to become your own speaker of information, your own channel of energy, your own light manifestation of being. QUESTION: How can we clear our channels and reduce blockages in order to be more in tune with the energy and help it come? PLEIADIANS: We have always stated to you, quite clearly, that you do your greatest work with yourself. You are your primary tool, and your work is through your thoughts and your understanding of these thoughts. We understand that that is a difficult concept for many. You wish alternative tools to show yourselves that you are really doing something, because you have difficulty in realizing that if you think it, it is occurring. If you wish to align your body and make it in preparation for this change that is coming, you must work within your idea about yourselves. That is most important. If we tell you to align your thoughts and you do not believe that your thoughts do anything, or that they can be that powerful, then you are not aligning yourselves. You must come to the core of what your own ideas are about yourselves. If you believe that it is important for you to align yourselves with the proper food, then we would say to you indeed, align yourselves with what you feel comfortable with. We have spoken of the animal consciousness, and how the food chain from our perspective, has become distorted. The consciousness in animals is not aligned with giving up their lives at this time to keep you alive because you are not in reciprocity with the animals. You are like master and slave with them. That is not the ideal situation to be in and to still be eating the animals. Your bodies are magnificent transmuters of energy and, ideally, you can transmute any energy if you so believe. In addition, if you have beliefs about the use of the body through activities of exercise, and that you are not living up to this, then align yourself with what is necessary. If you have ideas about your sexuality and the expression of who you are, and you are not living up to this, then place yourselves in alignment with this. We cannot give you a list of do's and don'ts because you need to look to yourselves to see how you judge yourselves and what limitations you place on yourselves. Understand that the shape of the body, the health of the body, is not necessarily limiting the spiritual development. One could be ridden with disease and on the death bed and have the most enlightening feeling of existence. You may utilize your body and your energies in whichever way suits you. We would say to you always, to place yourself first in comfort with what you are eating and that what you place into your body you ask that vibrations become harmonious with your own vibrations and assist you in your own health and growth. That in itself will save you a lot of difficulty. Practically speaking, whatever you are discovering your feelings are about your own personal development, we would recommend that at least once a day for five minutes or so to see yourself involved in receiving light. You may see an individual, or an entity, present you with light in your hands through a star, through a ball, through a beam, through a cluster. Use your own creative abilities. Believe in them. Call this energy to yourself and become the designer and the authority of your own experience. A good time to do this is when you are driving your cars. Your eyes do not have to be closed for these situations. Say, "I am light. I am light. I welcome light into my life. I am allowing myself to develop into a light experience of being." Anything that you focus on and anything that you feel moved to express along this line is correct for you. It is your intention of experience that will create the experience. It is your centeredness within the present, the now-ness of your being, that will always keep you moving towards this great call. What we are saying is that you are all quite capable. With a bit of guidance and understanding about the limitations that you have so innocently placed around yourselves, as you learn to strip these down, you will find that you will be changing quite miraculously. QUESTION: I have a problem with the idea that our feelings are true and we shouldn't trust our rational thought. I believe your feelings can deceive you just as much as your rational discourse. PLEIADIANS: This individual has said that he believes that your feelings can be misleading. That is his belief. That is the belief that he will always have to work with until he changes to a belief that says, "my feelings guide me to wherever I need to be." It is your choice whether you will trust these feelings, whether you will question or mistrust them. Feelings, impulses, the imagination, are all gifts. They are all a part of the built-in guidance system that is a part of humanities. When you learn to develop belief systems that are in accordance with these innate abilities they can steer you in the direction of your greatest growth. What we are saying is to tap into areas that are there to guide you. Discover what beliefs you have about those areas that may perhaps limit the extent of their assistance within your lives or that may disallow what they can do for you. Whenever you are in a state where you are suspicious of yourself, you are in an area that needs examination. You are glorious, joyful beings. If you align yourselves with proper beliefs about yourselves, [you] will spontaneously grow and blossom. Listen to yourselves when you speak. Understand that you are speaking the parameters of your experience. You are saying to the world, "this is how I structure myself. This is how I structure my experience. I do not always trust my feelings." Then you will have to learn how to live within that parameter. You will have to set up a device to understand when to trust and when not to trust. Learn that the body speaks to you and that you can, if you choose, learn to trust your feelings. They will not signal you to do something inappropriate. You learn to recognize how the feelings can mask certain territory of experience you do not wish to look into. When one is afraid, when that is the basic belief, that one has to watch out, the body will signal fear when it is unnecessary. The body is responding to the mind which expects fearful situations around every comer. And so the body is continuously afraid of where it could be going and it is shutting down, and it is sending off fear. But the fear is programmed by the mind itself. This is why we say be very aware of your thought processes and belief systems. Whatever you are believing is what you are working on. Attempt to step outside of your belief system and relinquish certain amounts of control. Allow yourselves to realize that what you think is your world. Do yourself a favor to expedite your development. Create belief systems that you can comfortably live within that enhance your experience and not limit it. You may create and develop whatever belief system you like. We are merely saying to utilize the tools that are innately yours to flower and grow. QUESTION: Could you talk more about the process of implanting knowledge in our beings? PLEIADIANS: The knowledge that is being fed to you is not just the words we have been speaking. Information travels on thought beams, it travels on light beams. Thought and light are greatly intertwined. They are one. Thought to you is a more complete and familiar energy than is light. Light is more intellectual for you. But that will be changing. The society that you are moving toward is one of learning and power through thought. You came [to this class] to exchange and surrender a certain set of beliefs and to make room for new information that you could consider and then to pick up your other beliefs and incorporate if you so choose, what it is that you have heard. That is occurring on one level. On other levels of experience, there is energy in the room. And it moves out and connects with each and every one of you. The energy is partly garnished and brought here by we Pleiadians, but each of you bring a covey of guides with you, Higher Selves, and each of you are surrounded by those who would assist you, by those who would bring you to your greatest development. As we speak, those that are around you and working with you teach you as well. They take information that is nonverbal and implant it. They call it to you and put it into your etheric field, your aura, your Higher Self, your Universal Mind. It's there for you to sort out and discover later. When you may be driving by yourself, walking in the fields, fishing at a stream. or flying in the air, you catch a thought that comes to you out of nowhere. You are selecting and bringing to yourself the information that is carried to you by those who surround you and who find you ripe for connecting. If you wish to be riper and to have more intuitive knowings and understandings, then open yourself to this experience. By opening yourself to this experience, you may quite consciously state your beliefs and your intents that you are now prepared to receive and understand material and information about yourself, about your existence, about your earth plane that was out of reach prior to this time. As you begin to say this, that you are now ready to receive this information, be prepared, for you will receive it from many directions. Books will be shoved into your hands. Dreams will take you around the universe. Many will be coming to invite you places or to share with you what they have found. Remember, we share with you a picture of your reality so you can facilitate your experience here, so that you can enjoy yourselves within these times, because these times are going to be full of change. The world will be turned upside down to a certain extent. All activities are probable and contingent upon humanity's development. As each learns more, the world can be a more harmonious place. Still, there is going to be a need to complete the change. It is probable that you will see much collapse within the system as you know it, because the system is corrupted. Think about structures that exist on your planet. They no longer hold up to the new belief systems that are bringing in new energies. Do not be afraid of change. We are here to guide, as many are here to guide, to allow you to feel comfortable, so that you can understand the world in its transition, so that you can know that you have chosen a place of being. Through your thoughts you will select the experience that you desire. If you see certain structures falling apart around you, you decide how you are going to be affected by this. Understand when there is great turmoil and collapse, there is a great need for restructuring, rebuilding. This is what you are being prepared for. To rebuild with new values, with new basic laws. You all are potential givers of new principles of existence. As you learn to open yourself to this information through the universal energies that are everywhere, and through your belief that you can speak these energies, and that you are indeed coming into your own glory, you will do this. You have taken on much light to carry you through times that will be of great challenge and upliftment. We welcome you to the cosmos and to the intimacy of your being. We send you our love and our great blessings and our congratulations. THE SOURCE: The Pleiadians are a collective of extraterrestrials from the star system the Pleiades. The Pleiadian culture is ancient and was "seeded" from another universe of love long before Earth was created. They have formed a tremendous society which operates with love, with ideas and ideals that we are yet unfamiliar with. The Pleiadians call themselves our ancient family because many of us came here from the Pleiades to participate in the new experiment of Earth. The Pleiadians are now here as ambassadors from another universe to help Earth through her difficult transition from the third dimension to the fourth dimension and to assist each of us in our personal endeavors of awakening, remembering and knowing. 'THE CHANNEL: Barbara J . Marciniak has been a student of Metaphysics for many years. She gives credit to the Seth material channeled by Jane Roberts for her insight into the necessity for conscious, intentional creation of personal experience. Barbara travels extensively. In Athens, Greece in May of 1988, she began channeling the Pleiadians after she and a group of friends experienced a spiritual awakening in the Great Pyramid at Giza. Barbara currently lives in Raleigh, North Carolina where she gives class sessions and workshops with the Pleiadians. You may contact Barbara at Bold Connections Unlimited, P. O. Box 6521, Raleigh, NC 27628. S U B S C R I B E T O CONNECTING LINK 1 Year Subscription (6 issues) is just $20 U.S. (12 issues) $35 Canada $32* (air) 12 issues $59* Overseas $44* (air) 12 issues $83* To order your subscription use order form in center of magazine Credit card orders only call (616) 891-0410 * U.S. Currency Connecting Link Magazine 9392 Whitneyville Rd. Alto, MI. 49302-9694 Copyrighted by Barbara Marciniak Reprinted from Connecting Link Magazine with permission. Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!anson From: anson@netcom.com (Anson Kennedy) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: Crop Circles Keywords: Crop Circles North America Message-ID: Date: 28 Apr 92 14:41:17 GMT References: <1992Apr27.145528.9011@ccu.umanitoba.ca> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 20 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5474 alt.paranormal:4870 umrutko0@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Chris Rutkowski) writes: >For all those interested, NNAIICR has received word that a new crop >circle formation has been found near Jonesboro, Georgia (?). It was >discovered on April 20, 1992. >In addition, UFO activity in New Hampshire over the past few weeks has >also been claimed to have produced traces and possibel crop circles. >Does anyone have further info? I checked with the Assistant State Director for the Georgia MUFON, he hasn't heard of it. I'll let you know if I hear anything else. -- Anson Kennedy Secretary of the Georgia Skeptics (but don't even THINK I speak for them!) "If I had been the Virgin Mary, I would have said 'No.'" -Margaret "Stevie" Smith (1902-1971) Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!noao!coyote!jmh From: jmh@coyote.datalog.com (John Hughes) Newsgroups: sci.space,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: ALL CONERNED ABOUT FEDERATION!!! Message-ID: <1992Apr28.051718.1700@coyote.datalog.com> Date: 28 Apr 92 05:17:18 GMT References: <1992Apr26.151851.1@acad2.alaska.edu> Organization: Datalog Consulting, Tucson, AZ Lines: 11 Xref: ns-mx sci.space:29420 alt.alien.visitors:5475 This "federation" stuff is all some kind of joke, right? Humor? An experiment by the psych. dept. at the univ. of alaska? -- | John M. Hughes | "...unfolding in consciousness at the | | datalog.com!moondog!jmh | deliberate speed of pondering." - Daniel Dennet | | jmh%coyote@noao.edu |--------------------------------------------------| | jmh%moondog@datalog.com | P.O.Box 43305 Tucson AZ 85733 | Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!hri.com!ukma!psuvax1!uxa.ecn.bgu.edu!cfkfb From: cfkfb@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Karl Bridges) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Serious research--another comment Summary: Need for information sharing Keywords: research Message-ID: <1992Apr28.162837.12733@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> Date: 28 Apr 92 16:28:37 GMT Organization: Educational Computing Network Lines: 13 I'm not out to start a crusade, but the comment to my last post was encouraging. A comment: it seems at this point what we need is simply a way to know what's being done and who's doing it. Suggestions: 1) It might be possible to avoid the noise level by simply bypassing the network newsgroup and working simply with e-mail between individuals.A positive kind of chain letter approach. 2) Personally, I'd like to know what research tools are available already on the net. Perhaps an FTP site(s) where comments, files, list of e-mail addresses,ect could be available. 3) There needs to be some kind of concensus as to what we're looking for. Or at least what we're not interested in. At any rate I step down from my soapbox and await comments, flames,ect. Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!olivea!uunet!zephyr.ens.tek.com!psgrain!quagga!cc188.ru.ac.za!g90m1473 From: g90m1473@giraffe.ru.ac.za (MR CR MAIN) Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: PENTAGON ADMITS IT HAS ALIEN VESSELS Message-ID: Date: 28 Apr 92 18:15:25 GMT References: <9204232336.AA10093@echidna.swdc.stratus.com> <1992Apr24.085908@IASTATE.EDU> <1992Apr24.205532.7978@mprgate.mpr.ca> Sender: usenet@quagga.ru.ac.za (Rhodes University NNTP server) Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa Lines: 57 Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:23137 alt.alien.visitors:5477 In article <1992Apr24.205532.7978@mprgate.mpr.ca> spani@mprgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani) writes: >In article <1992Apr24.085908@IASTATE.EDU>, danwell@IASTATE.EDU (Daniel A Ashlock) writes: >|> In article <9204232336.AA10093@echidna.swdc.stratus.com>, >|> lpb@STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM (Len Bucuvalas) writes: >[...] >|> > >|> > I recently heard a Radio One program in the UK that contained >|> > an interview with a leading proponent of the popular "US Government has >|> > aliens locked up and is experimenting with their spaceplanes" conspiracy >|> > theory. However this particular individual sounded very reasonable, did >|> > not make any outrageous claims, and further had some interesting facts >|> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >|> > to disclose. In particular he mentioned several verifiable facts which >|> > I would like some followup on: >|> >|> The above _is_ an outrageous claim. I conclude you wouldn't know an >|> outrageous claim if it bit you in the anatomy. >|> >|> > Rockwell International and NASA were planning a *massive* >|> > joint exhibition of space exploration this year (1991) but it was delayed >|> > inexplicably until 1992. In the *official* prospectus for this exhibition, >|> > one of the exhibits was clearly stated to be "an extraterrestrial space >|> > craft". >|> >|> Right. Another non-outrageous claim? >|> >|> Say "good night, Gracie". >|> >|> Dan >|> Danwell@IASTATE.EDU >Actually, I beleive that the travelling space exhibit part may be true. >I don't have my references with me, but I read in Timothy Good's >1991 book "Alien Liaison" about a venture that sounds the same. >It was called "Cosmic Journey" and was to be a joint venture between >NASA and Ringling Brothers and Barnum and Bailey International. The touring >space exhibit was to include a *real* captured alien space craft and a >frozen alien corpse. The venture was cancelled in 1991 or delayed. Good's >references seemed reasonable, but the "military person" who was to supply >to alien artifacts could have been just yanking someone's chains. >I wish I had the book with me :^( >Leonard. >-- >*********************************************************************** >| Leonard E. Spani | //!?\\ | (disclaimer-p) | >| spani@mprgate.mpr.ca | \\?!// | t | >*********************************************************************** References seem rather dubious but if you happen to encounter one, don't let it read ant poetry to you. Path: ns-mx!uunet!sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ucla-cs!ucla-se!seashell!mitch From: mitch@seashell.seas.ucla.edu (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin)) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Strawman: an example (was: INVASION) Message-ID: <6824@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> Date: 28 Apr 92 20:45:08 GMT References: <1992Apr23.193015.6114@rosevax.rosemount.com: <6820@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU: <1992Apr28.083040@IASTATE.EDU: Sender: news@SEAS.UCLA.EDU Distribution: na Organization: SEASnet, University of California, Los Angeles Lines: 98 In article <1992Apr28.083040@IASTATE.EDU: danwell@IASTATE.EDU (Daniel A Ashlock) writes: :In article <6820@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU:, mitch@seashell.seas.ucla.edu (Robert R. :Mitchell (SEAS admin)) writes: : : [stuff from UFO thread deleted] : :: Of course. Obviously, anyone who harbors any religious beliefs is :: by definition psychotic, and should be locked up. : : Absoutively! I was trying to be sarcastic; perhaps it wasn't obvious. I sincerely hope you don't "absoutively" agree with my statement above. :S: We moderns are fortunate to be so intellectually sophisticated; we :T: can reject all this metaphysical nonsense out of hand, because :R: we _know_ that our subjective, physical reality (as revealed to :A: us by our five senses) is truly the only reality. And if anyone :W: dares to make us uncomfortable by suggesting otherwise, why we : : can just reach for our large bag of labels and brand them as :M: "psychotic" or "delusionary", and call their suggestions "extraordinary :A: claims" (After all, we can't take time from our accepted intellectual :N: pursuits to investigate something that "everyone knows" is bogus. : : Besides, it wouldn't look too good on our _curriculum vitae_, and : : might threaten our chances for tenure.) : : This is _not_ the method of skeptics... Maybe that seventh cup of coffee was a mistake. :-) You are quite correct, this is not a rational, logical argument, nor was it intended as such. This was purely a sarcastic, _emotional_, response to the psuedo-scientific hubris and dogmatic "skepticism" we've seen all too much of lately. I have no beef with honorable skeptics or honest scientific research. But I stand by the statement that _some_ people are too quick to reach for a label when confronted by something uncomfortable, and I will continue to castigate those who do so. ::Why do I get the strong impression that some of these self-proclaimed ::skeptics are just nerds who are trying too hard to emulate their ::hero, the rational, logical, unemotional Mr. Spock? : : Well, _my_ hero is Thomas Jefferson. My hero is Kirk Gibson. And the guy who invented Spandex. :: Grow up; the universe is huge, and the sum of our knowledge :: is infinitesimal, if not negligible. ...by which I meant: We don't have all the answers, and we sound pathetic when we pretend that we do. : Where do they grow these people, abandoned sound stages in Burbank :California? Thanks, Bob, for demonstrating both straw men and :grotesque overgeneralization in one post. Admittedly guilty on both counts, but it _was_ intentional. Burbank? Oh, I get it. You're trying to label me as "just another one of those Southern California looneys". Thanks, Dan, for underscoring the point I'm trying to make. (My skewed perception of reality properly should be attributed to growing up in the vast and desolate third world wasteland known as "Arizona". I was an asshole long before I checked into Hotel California, and California was fucked up long before I got here.) : Now, the beef. I don't think _any_ skeptic believes what comes in through :his senses and nothing else... Again, I am not picking on the honest skeptics. : I listen to my dreams which contain answers concocted by some part of myself :that is _not_ under my concious control. I listen to my memory which contains :information gathered by thousands of different humans, each with their own :perspective, and often using synthetic senses that can see gamma rays, :neutrinos, or the distant past. I listen most of all to my carefully :cultivated reason which can sift out hidden information or find :inconsistencies in the arguments of those who _will not_ train their most :useful "sense". : :Dan :Danwell@IASTATE.EDU I can respect that. I could respect it even more if you stated this as a goal to strive for rather than as a _fait_accompli_ (pardon my French :-). I think you will agree that your "carefully cultivated reason" occasionally will lead you to an erroneous conclusion. I listen to KNAC, 105.5 FM (_NO_ Howard Stern in the morning). :-) -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCLAIMER: "Don't blame _me_, _I_ didn't do it!" --Krusty the Clown "Ididn'tdoitnobodysawmeyoucan'tproveanything!" --Bartman Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!datum.nyo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!sousa.ltn.dec.com!hawk1.enet.dec.com!bottom From: bottom@hawk1.enet.dec.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: RE: new TV show Message-ID: <411@sousa.ltn.dec.com> Date: 28 Apr 92 11:35:04 GMT References: <1992Apr27.091756.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> Sender: newsa@sousa.ltn.dec.com Reply-To: bottom@hawk1.enet.dec.com () Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 15 crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu writes: >According to *UFO Magazine* in a section called Media Watch, *Intruders* will >be a CBS miniseries which (they say) "we've been informed does NOT really >have a character based on Budd Hopkins. Just the title and a *certain element* >were purchased from Hopkins. * The male lead, played by Richard Crenna, is >really >a conglomerate of UFO personalities, says someone in the know. At any rate, >it may air around 14-18 May, I don't have the exact dates. As I understand it the character played by Richard Crenna is supposed to be representative of Dr. Jaohn Mack of the Harvard Medical School who is doing some work with Bud Hopkins as an investigator and who also runs a support group for abduction experiencers. At last report both Budd and Dr. Mack were less than pleased with the show as it sensationalizes an abduction scene and the script leans heavily twords a "Government Conspiracy/coverup" theme. Both Budd Hopkins and Dr. Mack don;t believe the governmen t is competant enough to cover this type of a thing up (or so they both said at a 'networking' conference I attended this last winter) dave Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!van-bc!ubc-cs!mprgate.mpr.ca!mprgate.mpr.ca!spani From: spani@mprgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Serious research--another comment Keywords: research Message-ID: <1992Apr28.220418.23141@mprgate.mpr.ca> Date: 28 Apr 92 22:04:18 GMT References: <1992Apr28.162837.12733@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> Sender: news@mprgate.mpr.ca Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada Lines: 71 In article <1992Apr28.162837.12733@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu>, cfkfb@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Karl Bridges) writes: |> |> I'm not out to start a crusade, but the comment to my last post was |> encouraging. A comment: it seems at this point what we need is simply |> a way to know what's being done and who's doing it. Suggestions: I have noticed that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved since your first post. Perhaps all we needed was a little reminder. Maybe we could revitalize rather than create a new group. One idea to revitalize alt.alien.visitors (or set up a new group) would be a regularly posted FAQ containing a statement of purpose for the group and what kind of material would be appropriate to post (in addition to frequently asked questions and information sources.) All newsgroups have a tendency to degenerate unless the people are reminded of their purpose from time to time. I'm not sure that having the group moderated is a good idea, but only because I haven't had much experience personally with moderated newsgroups. I would be afraid of moderator's bias limiting the information getting through. There is such a high degree of wierdness contected with the subject of UFOs, it is difficult to tell what will be important later. For example, I have read that many UFO investigators in the 50's rejected "entity" sightings out of hand because they were obviously (fringe group) nonsense. |> 1) It might be possible to avoid the noise level by simply bypassing the |> network newsgroup and working simply with e-mail between individuals.A |> positive kind of chain letter approach. Bypassing the newsgroup *entirely* would be a step backwards (IMO). We would lose the common forum and the benefits that go with it. We could also reduce the number of people that have access to the information and therefore the number of minds working on the problems. More contact between individuals via email (in addition to the newsgroup) would be a good thing, but there will always be some noise (intellectual entropy?) |> 2) Personally, I'd like to know what research tools are available |> already on the net. Perhaps an FTP site(s) where comments, files, list |> of e-mail addresses,ect could be available. The only ftp site I know of is phoenix.oulu.fi (130.231.240.17). I haven't "been there" in a while but it contains scanned UFO pictures. Stefan Hartmann (leo@zelator.in-berlin.de) would be the person to contact for more information. A general purpose UFO ftp site would be a *very* good idea. Information about ftp sites should also go into a group FAQ. |> 3) There needs to be some kind of concensus as to what we're looking |> for. Or at least what we're not interested in. This is what should go into the newsgroups "statement of purpose" in the FAQ. If someone out there wants to take a crack at it, go ahead and post the results for "approval". Sorry to be passing the buck, but I don't have enough time myself ;^( |> At any rate I step down from my soapbox and await comments, flames,ect. Keep stirring the pot. Good things are floating up. Leonard. -- *********************************************************************** | Leonard E. Spani | //!?\\ | (disclaimer-p) | | spani@mprgate.mpr.ca | \\?!// | t | *********************************************************************** Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!wupost!uunet!mcsun!uknet!axion!spuddy!warlock From: warlock@spuddy.uucp (Sean Eaton) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: SUMMARY: Near miss at Gatwick. Message-ID: <1992Apr28.212802.24253@spuddy.uucp> Date: 28 Apr 92 21:28:02 GMT Organization: Spuddy's Public Usenet Domain Lines: 49 From today's tabloids (Daily Mirror) : -- HOLIDAY JET'S CLOSE ENCOUNTER WITH A UFO 100-Yard Air Miss By Ted Oliver. A mysterious black UFO almost sent a holiday jetliner crashing to the ground, it was revealed yesterday. The object zoomed throught the sky at 120mph and flashed past the plane at a distance of just 100 yards. The pilot of the Britannia Airways Boeing 737 had spotted it only 500 yards ahead of him. There was no chance for him to swerve and barely a seond later, the UFO had vanished. Passengers were unaware of what had happened, says an official report by the Civil Aviation Authority. But radar controllers were tipped off and diverted other aircraft while pinpointing the lozenge-shaped object on their screens. The Boeing's captain reckoned his jet had been at serious risk of collision. At a height of 14,000 ft, it was approaching Gatwick at a speed of 400mph during a routine flight last summer. The incident was reported as a near miss. No further sign of the UFO was traced, however, leaving experts baffled as to where it came from. [EOB] -- It even merits a few column inches in the TIMES which, after saying much the same thing, goes on to say : --- ....The CAA and the airline were unconvinced [ about reports from over zealous UFO believers that it heralded the start of an invasion ] and between answering the flood of calls could only speculate that a meteorological balloon had somehow drifted high or even that a black plastic bag had been blown high into the air. Even the British UFO Research Association quashed the excited imaginings of its most avid followers. "We remain convinced that something is out there," a spokesman, Robert Lindsey, said. "Unfortunately we are not being visited at the rate people claim. We believe it was likely to have been a balloon." ..... --- -Sean. as_m332@titan.kingston.ac.uk, or warlock%spuddy@uknet.ac.uk Path: ns-mx!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: A New Tv Show? Message-ID: <129596.29FD1D82@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 28 Apr 92 00:45:00 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - Sitting infront of the TV at around 2am last night, I came across the > end > of a commerical for "INTRUDERS" This man said something like, "After > see'ing this, you WILL believe!" Hmm.. wonder what it is? Anybody > know? > It was on WJBK CBS. Thought it might be some new UFO show.. This will be a mini-docu-drama (4 hours) based upon Budd Hopkins' abduction cases, airing on CBS. Mike -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!icdoc!mrccrc!mrccrc!sgamble From: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: A new TV show? Message-ID: <1992Apr29.102328.29713@crc.ac.uk> Date: 29 Apr 92 10:23:28 GMT References: Sender: news@crc.ac.uk Reply-To: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) Organization: MRC Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Harrow, UK Lines: 23 Nntp-Posting-Host: germanium In article , gstimp@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Gary Stimpson) writes: > Sitting infront of the TV at around 2am last night, I came across the end > of a commerical for "INTRUDERS" This man said something like, "After > see'ing this, you WILL believe!" Hmm.. wonder what it is? Anybody know? > It was on WJBK CBS. Thought it might be some new UFO show.. > > Gary > As far as I know a US TV company were making a five or six part series based on Budd Hopkins book Intruders. I believe it is a drama documentary i.e. the script is Budd's book but all the parts are played by actors. I was speaking to somebody visiting from the USA last week who told me he was expecting the programmes to be aired within the next month Steve. -- (Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!) Steve Gamble, Computing Services, Clinical Research Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK. Phone: 081 869 3293 JANET: s.gamble@uk.ac.crc INTERNET: s.gamble@crc.ac.uk Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!rpi!batcomputer!reed!news From: ian@reed.edu (Ian Goodrich) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Poisoning the well. Keywords: Poisoning the well. Message-ID: <1992Apr29.104740.17235@reed.edu> Date: 29 Apr 92 10:47:40 GMT Sender: news@reed.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR Lines: 41 Speaking of Fiore's "poisoning of the well", does any one know exactly what constitues a legitimate (state acknowledged) psychiatric practice? The letters "PH.D." appear after Fiore's name, but I really don't know if she's a legitimate professional (as opposed to an academic). Furthermore, does anyone know if the famed Leo Sprikle is a professional? (I know he taught at the University of Wyoming until 1987) And what are the requirements for being recognized as a professional "hypnotherapist"? One more addition to the "poisoning of the well". At the end of Jenny Randles "UFO Abduction: The Mystery Solved" (yeah, right), she has an appendix entitled "Have you been abducted?" After suggesting that the reader may have undergone abduction without being consciously aware of it, she provides a series of self directed questions, the last of which reads: "Have you suddenly found yourself becomming interested in conservation, artistic pursuits, the New Age, love, peace, and harmony and ecology, without any obvious cause for this interest?" (1988:224). If one answers 'yes' to three or more of the six questions, her advice is to "discuss the matter [in full confidence] with an experienced investigator [presumably Fiore]" It's truly amazing. At one fell swoop, Randles illustrates the now intimate relation with the alien and Nature (capital 'N', that thing that replaces God with secularization) popularly posited by New Age ufologists like Brad Stieger and his ilk who have become completely lost in their frenzied millenarian fantacies AND (Randles, that is) sets the wheels in motion for the process of suggestibility which will put 'happy' faces on all the 'traumatic' abductee's faces. Just remember (with a mantra-like chant): Everything is possible, if you love the alien. You losers. I know that since Religion has been replaced by Science, we no longer have a moralized system to guide human action, but do ALL your deviant belief systems have to be so anthropocentric? Get creative for once, you turds. XOXO, SHAKES, THE CLOWN -- Ian Goodrich Computer User Services Reed College Portland, Oregon ian@reed.edu Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!rutgers!noao!alex From: alex@noao.edu (Alex Macdonald) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Question on physics of ufo mechanics Keywords: curious Message-ID: <1992Apr29.121930.10591@noao.edu> Date: 29 Apr 92 12:19:30 GMT References: Organization: National Optical Astronomy Observatories, Tucson AZ Lines: 27 In article mccabe@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Chris Mccabe) writes: > > > The other day I was explaining to some friends how I had heard > stories about scientists actually building some sort of device > that could levitate off the ground. Apparrently, the device > was based on some sort of electromagnetic principles (I think). > Anyway, I went on to explain how, once the device (which had > been resting on some sort of scale) was activated, the weight > of the scale went down, and the device proceeded to levitate off > the scale. Now, my friends had a problem with this because they > pointed out that the scale should not have lost weight since > the device has to push downward with the same or greater force > to lift up (like a helicoptor). Is this point valid? Not necessarily. If an *extenal* electromagnetic field is applied to a superconductor it can cause the superconducting material to "levitate". This is a now famous experiment carried out in most high school physics classes. The object is trapped by the field and one could say that the scale would no longer see the gravitational influence of the material. There are high-speed trains which are also designed to operate on this principle. This does not mean to imply that the device can cheat gravity. By floating in the external field it can avoid having its gravitational potential energy measured by some pesky scale. Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!news.nd.edu!bsu-cs!bsu-ucs.uucp!01crmeyer From: 01crmeyer@bsu-ucs.uucp (Craig Meyer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Planets Outside the Solar System Message-ID: <1992Apr28.220207.7109@bsu-ucs.uucp> Date: 29 Apr 92 03:02:07 GMT Lines: 13 Just how many planets besides those in our own solar system do we know about? Do we know where they are NOT? Do we know what they're made of? How can we find out more about these other planets? Craig Meyer 01CRMEYER@LEO.BSUVC.BSU.EDU Indiana Academy for Science, Mathematics, and Humaities. Muncie, IN 47306 317-285-7433 No resonsibilty... blah, blah... opinions my own... blah, blah... not necessarily those of... blah, blah... (insert wise-ass remark here) Path: ns-mx!uunet!van-bc!ubc-cs!unixg.ubc.ca!kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca!access.usask.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!umrutko0 From: umrutko0@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Chris Rutkowski) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: Crop Circles Keywords: Crop Circles North America Message-ID: <1992Apr29.145229.10370@ccu.umanitoba.ca> Date: 29 Apr 92 14:52:29 GMT References: <1992Apr27.145528.9011@ccu.umanitoba.ca> Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada Lines: 15 Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5487 alt.paranormal:4881 In anson@netcom.com (Anson Kennedy) writes: >I checked with the Assistant State Director for the Georgia MUFON, he hasn't >heard of it. I'll let you know if I hear anything else. >Anson Kennedy >Secretary of the Georgia Skeptics (but don't even THINK I speak for them!) Thx. Your help is appreciated. -- Chris Rutkowski - umrutko0@ccu.umanitoba.ca Royal Astronomical Society of Canada University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!anasaz!qip!john From: john@anasaz (John Moore) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Mach6 spy plane Message-ID: <1992Apr28.235014.12816@anasaz> Date: 28 Apr 92 23:50:14 GMT Organization: Anasazi, Inc. Phoenix, AZ, USA Lines: 21 Keywords: In article Costanza@world.std.com (Peter Costanza) writes: ]An acquaintance of mine in upstate New York recently saw an aircraft that ]he thought was a spaceship. It was shaped like a regular airplane but ]instead of regular wings had two massive shapes on each side of the central ]fuselage; the shapes were on the end of what appeared to be very short ]connecting "wings" on either side of the fuselage. He said it made a loud ]whining or humming sound, moved very slowly and then zoomed away. It's ]general description made me wonder whether it was a stealth version of a ]jump-jet (like the Harrier) with hover capability. There is a major ]airbase in the area. Sighting was late at night over a residential area. It sounds like an Osprey - a VTOL aircraft with props that can be rotated from horizontal to vertical. -- John Moore NJ7E, 7525 Clearwater Pkwy, Scottsdale, AZ 85253 (602-951-9326) john@anasazi.com ncar!noao!asuvax!anasaz!john anasaz!john@asuvax.eas.asu.edu Get into Ham Radio today! Morse Code no longer needed! It's a hobby, a sport, a convenience, a technical challenge, a public service. Go rec.radio.amateur.misc Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!psuvax1!psuvm!srk8 From: SRK8@psuvm.psu.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Question on physics of ufo mechanics Message-ID: <92120.002147SRK8@psuvm.psu.edu> Date: 29 Apr 92 04:21:47 GMT References: Organization: Penn State University Lines: 19 In article , mccabe@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Chris Mccabe) says: > > The other day I was explaining to some friends how I had heard > stories about scientists actually building some sort of device > that could levitate off the ground. Apparrently, the device > was based on some sort of electromagnetic principles (I think). > Anyway, I went on to explain how, once the device (which had > been resting on some sort of scale) was activated, the weight > of the scale went down, and the device proceeded to levitate off > the scale. Now, my friends had a problem with this because they > pointed out that the scale should not have lost weight since > the device has to push downward with the same or greater force > to lift up (like a helicoptor). Is this point valid? I think oyur friends are correct if we are talking about the usual kind of forces ( newton's law), but if the mechanism for the levitaion is some thing to do with cancelling the gravitaional effect itself, then in that case t he meter will show a decrease in reading. Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!netnews!mjd From: mjd@saul.cis.upenn.edu (Crash Fu-Tze) Newsgroups: talk.bizarre,alt.alien.visitors,alt.tasteless Subject: Re: long crunchy confession Message-ID: Date: 29 Apr 92 17:39:20 GMT References: <1992Apr28.221155.17403@wpi.WPI.EDU> <1992Apr29.160735.22188@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> Sender: news@netnews.upenn.edu Followup-To: misc.misc Organization: Eaters of Wisdom Lines: 18 Xref: ns-mx talk.bizarre:56958 alt.alien.visitors:5490 alt.tasteless:10682 Nntp-Posting-Host: saul.cis.upenn.edu In-reply-to: kjurena@lonestar.utsa.edu's message of 29 Apr 92 16:07:35 GMT In article <1992Apr29.160735.22188@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> kjurena@lonestar.utsa.edu (Keith R. Jurena) writes: > Try it with a swig of Kikoman's soy sauce-straight from the In 1986 Showers and I used to compete at mealtimes to see who could down the most soy sauce. We'd guzzle it straight from the bottle. Even today my capacity for good soy sauce is legendary. (References available on request.) I won't touch La Choy though; it's horrifying. That was also the summer that we got sick of the high school kids playing the damn jukebox in the dining hall, so we pumped five dollars into the jukebox one day at breakfast and had it play Twisted Sister's ``We're not Gonna Take it'' thirty times, and it was gone by lunch. Those were the days. -- And for to see, and eke for to be seye Mark-Jason Dominus mjd@central.cis.upenn.edu Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!batcomputer!reed!news From: ian@reed.edu (Ian Goodrich) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Poisoning the well. Message-ID: <1992Apr29.181016.4216@reed.edu> Date: 29 Apr 92 18:10:16 GMT References: <1992Apr29.104740.17235@reed.edu> Sender: news@reed.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR Lines: 13 Ack! I let someone in my office last night to use my computer and they posted this message on my behalf. I'm *very sorry* if it offended anyone, but I DIDN'T WRITE IT. Acutally, the person that did write it is named: Jon Paul ("Corky") DeVault jdevault@reed.edu He's an anthropology student writing his undergraduate senior thesis on UFOs. Sincerely, Ian Goodrich ian@reed.edu Path: ns-mx!uunet!hoptoad!amdcad!dvorak.amd.com!mozart!billp From: billp@mozart.amd.com (Bill Peterson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: SCIENCE and UFO's Message-ID: <1992Apr29.171125.5315@dvorak.amd.com> Date: 29 Apr 92 17:11:25 GMT Sender: usenet@dvorak.amd.com (Usenet News) Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.; Austin, Texas Lines: 41 It occurred to me that what science basically does when faced with the unknown is : 1) admit it doesn't know 2) observe the behaviour 3) speculate about causes 4) formulate a theory to explain the behaviour 5) it cannot PROVE the theory totally, science instead looks for behaviour that doesn't fit the theory. 6) modify the theory to account for new data or unexplained data As a theory withstands tests of it's capability to explain the observed behaviour, it becomes stronger. Eventually it is assumed to be true. As in Newton's laws. As our instrumentation gets more discriminating, experiments show errors in the theory, or confirm it. As for UFOs, it seems much easier to me to go ahead and posit the existence of ET. This handily explains almost all of the observed behaviour. Our own limited knowledge (knowledge is always limited) concludes that other planets are highly likely. Life abounds on Earth in all kinds of weird places. There is no real reason NOT to assume ET out there somewhere. I am afraid that to a visitor we would look like animals. Similar to what we think of monkeys or cows. We are obviously violent and selfish, willing to destroy whole countries with nuclear weapons. There is no central contact point for aliens to contact. Someone might try to attack them. It is no wonder that ETs might not want to get too close. We stink. All through recorded time, man has had a relationship with "other" intellegences. Elves, gods, etc. It is so much simpler to explain all of this (and UFOs) with the ET hypothesis. The amount of anecdotal evidence is overwhelming. Some explanation is required._ I challenge you skeptics out there to come up with one shred of proof AGAINST the ET theory. Bill Peterson -- Howdy Pardner! Let's chew the fat! Disclaimer : my thoughts are not my own. :-X Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!news From: SCHLEGEL@Zeus.unomaha.edu (Mark) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Question on physics of ufo mechanics Message-ID: <1992Apr29.192156.29007@news.unomaha.edu> Date: 29 Apr 92 19:21:56 GMT References: <1992Apr29.121930.10591@noao.edu> Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server) Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha Lines: 37 In-Reply-To: alex@noao.edu's message of 29 Apr 92 12: 19:30 GMT X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.11 > > The other day I was explaining to some friends how I had heard > > stories about scientists actually building some sort of device > > that could levitate off the ground. Apparrently, the device > > was based on some sort of electromagnetic principles (I think). > > Anyway, I went on to explain how, once the device (which had > > been resting on some sort of scale) was activated, the weight > > of the scale went down, and the device proceeded to levitate off > > the scale. Now, my friends had a problem with this because they > > pointed out that the scale should not have lost weight since > > the device has to push downward with the same or greater force > > to lift up (like a helicoptor). Is this point valid? > > > Not necessarily. If an *extenal* electromagnetic field is applied > to a superconductor it can cause the superconducting material to > "levitate". This is a now famous experiment carried out in most > high school physics classes. The object is trapped by the field > and one could say that the scale would no longer see the gravitational > influence of the material. There are high-speed trains which are > also designed to operate on this principle. No, there is an effect called the Meissner effect which is the rejection of an external magnetic field by a superconductor and it allows a magnet to float above a superconducting plane. However it is not correct to say that the weight of the magnet is not passed through to the superconductor, IT IS. Now if by the above you mean that the scale is between the magnet and the superconductor and the magnet is floating with all its weight held by the field than you are right. However, your example of the high speed train is a case where the weight of the train definitely is transferred to the track below. > This does not mean to imply that the device can cheat gravity. > By floating in the external field it can avoid having its > gravitational potential energy measured by some pesky scale. Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!news From: STONE@Zeus.unomaha.edu (Travis R. Stone) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Science and UFOs..Proof Requested Message-ID: <1992Apr29.214158.888@news.unomaha.edu> Date: 29 Apr 92 21:41:58 GMT Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server) Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha Lines: 24 X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.11 Proof? There isn't a single shred of evidence that life exists anywhere else but on Earth; please do not rehash "probability" arguments to the contrary because arguing probabilities is not evidence. The above assertion is NOT a probability argument because it states a conclusion borne of direct observation---we see no EBEs, hence there are no EBEs (and apparently there is no experiment we can perform to produce them.) If there WERE ETs out there, we should have made clear contact with them by now; since we haven't, there aren't. 'Tis the person who claims that there ARE who is stuck with providing evidence to the contrary. Incidentally, ladies and gentlemen, I personally feel that there most certainly IS intelligent life out in the cosmos (other than here at home); whether or not they're coming here in metal ships to butcher our cattle and abduct our women is another kettle of fish altogether. THIS I have doubts about. T.R. Stone University of Nebraska-Omaha Home of the Toughest Organic Chemistry Instructors in the Galaxy (Even if there ARE others out there.) Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!van-bc!ubc-cs!unixg.ubc.ca!kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca!access.usask.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!bison!draco!sys6626!gstimp From: gstimp@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Gary Stimpson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: A new TV show? Message-ID: Date: 27 Apr 92 21:20:58 GMT References: <58049@cup.portal.com> Organization: system 6626 BBS, Winnipeg MB Lines: 14 Malfera@cup.portal.com (Dan M Healy) writes: > Sightings... is about all different things considered 'paranormal'. I > just caught an episode on ESP and the next one is on Psychic healing... > Dunno if they did a UFO show yet. SIGHTINGS: UFO's. Saw that one a few weeks ago and got it on tape (no copies, I only have one VCR). Wasn't bad.. Gary ;--- (Gary Stimpson) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64 ;E-mail: gstimp@sys6626.bison.mb.ca ;system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8 Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!bronze!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.cso.uiuc.edu!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!jbh55289 From: jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh 'K' Hopkins) Newsgroups: sci.space,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: ALL CONERNED ABOUT FEDERATION!!! Message-ID: <1992Apr29.223407.24690@news.cso.uiuc.edu> Date: 29 Apr 92 22:34:07 GMT References: <1992Apr26.151851.1@acad2.alaska.edu> <1992Apr28.051718.1700@coyote.datalog.com> Sender: usenet@news.cso.uiuc.edu (Net Noise owner) Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana Lines: 11 Xref: ns-mx sci.space:29462 alt.alien.visitors:5496 jmh@coyote.datalog.com (John Hughes) writes: >This "federation" stuff is all some kind of joke, right? Humor? >An experiment by the psych. dept. at the univ. of alaska? I don't know, but if the psych department is as bad as the English department (or the gen ed requirements) seem to be I wouldn't be surprised. Unfortunately, it seems to be all too real. Josh Hopkins Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!netcomsv!mork!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: SCIENCE and UFO's Message-ID: <6a+k00.payner@netcom.com> Date: 29 Apr 92 22:01:44 GMT References: <1992Apr29.171125.5315@dvorak.amd.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 87 In article <1992Apr29.171125.5315@dvorak.amd.com> billp@mozart.amd.com (Bill Peterson) writes: > It occurred to me that what science basically does when faced >with the unknown is : > 1) admit it doesn't know > 2) observe the behaviour > 3) speculate about causes > 4) formulate a theory to explain the behaviour > 5) it cannot PROVE the theory totally, science instead looks for > behaviour that doesn't fit the theory. > 6) modify the theory to account for new data or unexplained data > > As a theory withstands tests of it's capability to explain >the observed behaviour, it becomes stronger. Eventually it is assumed >to be true. As in Newton's laws. As our instrumentation gets more >discriminating, experiments show errors in the theory, or confirm >it. > > As for UFOs, it seems much easier to me to go ahead and posit >the existence of ET. This handily explains almost all of the observed >behaviour. Our own limited knowledge (knowledge is always limited) >concludes that other planets are highly likely. Life abounds on Earth Unless your data is vastly better than mine, there is not enough information to draw any conclusions whatsoever about extrasolar planets. The best arguments so far are in the form "there SHOULD be other...", a reflection of the wishes of whoever states this idea. >in all kinds of weird places. There is no real reason NOT to assume ET >out there somewhere. I disagree, there is 0 (zero) reason to make any assumptions, at least if you are basing them on astronomical data. The problem with the data from the ET crowd is that they get a lot of it from trance channelers and the new age crowd. Note, the present state of information does not support saying either that anything is, or is not. Lack of evidence is not evidence of lack. But it is not enough for sound speculation either. > I am afraid that to a visitor we would look like animals. Unless you propose machine life, all intelligent life will look like animals. I do not see the significance of this. >Similar to what we think of monkeys or cows. We are obviously violent >and selfish, willing to destroy whole countries with nuclear weapons. >There is no central contact point for aliens to contact. Someone might >try to attack them. It is no wonder that ETs might not want to get too >close. We stink. So they unselfishly mutilate cattle, and kidnap and have sex with an unknown number of humans. These are all anthromorphisms, based upon human perspective. Oddly enough, I have no idea what an ET's perspective might be, but I am pretty sure that it will not exactly mirror our own. > All through recorded time, man has had a relationship with >"other" intellegences. Elves, gods, etc. It is so much simpler to >explain all of this (and UFOs) with the ET hypothesis. The amount of >anecdotal evidence is overwhelming. Some explanation is required._ So where are the elves, gods, etc now? How is it that the anecdotal evidence is all there is? And no doubt future historians will say the same about Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. :^) There is far more anecdotal evidence for these than almost any human alive. Therefore, they --->must<--- be real, right? > I challenge you skeptics out there to come up with one shred >of proof AGAINST the ET theory. Sorry Bill, it is impossible to prove something does not exist. At least without observing all of space and time. This is well beyond my means at least. If something does NOT exist, then why should there be evidence that it does not? Nothing leaves no tracks, trails, notes, or evidence of it's (not?) passing. You do not need a skeptic, you need a magician. Real magic, not stage BTW. > Bill Peterson >-- > Howdy Pardner! Let's chew the fat! > Disclaimer : my thoughts are not my own. :-X Rich (sorry, cutting back on fat) payner@netcom.com Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Hypnosis in Abduction Studies Message-ID: Date: 29 Apr 92 22:20:50 GMT References: <1992Apr27.212305.15079@news.unomaha.edu> <1992Apr27.235712.9649@mprgate.mpr.ca> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 31 Along similiar lines, a while ago someone posted about trauma in those who seem to be abduction victims. I cannot find the post, but the poster was related to some phychaitrist(?) who had worked with some abductees, and he stated that all of them showed some form of post-? trauma. I also read recently of a study done on children. Ther wanted to use a control group, so they recieved a list from the schools of those children from safe secure homes. As I recall, at least a third of these children also showed signs of trauma. I recall that they were able to trace the cause in most cases. As I read about the study 3rd hand, I cannot give more details. But my point is that life is stressfull, and traumatic, and getting more so each day. If you grabbed a group of people randomly, how many of them will show signs of trauma? I bet it is a very large percentage. And the fact that these abduction victims went to the get help (and the abduction experience was discovered during hypnosis for some other problem) would seem to load the dice for trauma. Unless I misunderstand the circumstances that lead to these people being placed under hypnosis in the first place, I thing that it would be expected, rather than unusual. Can anyone fill in any more details? Is there some reason to expect that the abductees should -not- show sign's of trauma? Rich payner@netcom.com Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!csn!boulder!ucsu!cubldr.colorado.edu!crago_l From: crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Planets Outside the Solar System Message-ID: <1992Apr29.145241.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> Date: 29 Apr 92 21:52:41 GMT References: <1992Apr28.220207.7109@bsu-ucs.uucp> Sender: news@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (USENET News System) Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder Lines: 28 Nntp-Posting-Host: gold.colorado.edu In article <1992Apr28.220207.7109@bsu-ucs.uucp>, 01crmeyer@bsu-ucs.uucp (Craig Meyer) writes: > Just how many planets besides those in our own solar system do we know about? > Do we know where they are NOT? > Do we know what they're made of? > How can we find out more about these other planets? > > > Craig Meyer 01CRMEYER@LEO.BSUVC.BSU.EDU > Indiana Academy for Science, Mathematics, and Humaities. > Muncie, IN 47306 317-285-7433 > > No resonsibilty... blah, blah... opinions my own... blah, > blah... not necessarily those of... blah, blah... (insert > wise-ass remark here) It is alleged that the Druid tradition (builders of Stonehenge) accounted something like 14 planets in our solar system, some with such immense orbits that they would only come within observational distance from earth every 8-10,000 years -- a long enough time for their last appearance to be forgotten by the next one. Also the Hopi prophecy, in Frank Waters's book *The Hopi* foreesees the approach toward earth of a *blue star* which has not been seen in humankind's memory, and which will cause a great deal of terrestrial disruption. There is no scientific proof of either of these allegations, as far as I know. Does anyone know of any evidence collected by the space probes that might weigh either pro or con?